nature boy
Member
I'm guessing zero probability of a VAG engine?
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Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
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A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
The Honda 2K is a great car, in the same way the RX 8 is a great car.
I prefer the rotary.
I prefer the rotary.
Yeah, Ricciardo needs to start praying to the Italian gods asap for that Ferrari seat.
Before 2021 yes.
Before 2021 yes.
dl77
Member
I'd be astounded if that's true given that he's signed up for 3 years.
What was he gonna do? Say no to a contract extension and go elsewhere? Maybe sign with McNault?
brotkasten
Member
Go to Mercedes?
nature boy
Member
I find it baffling how Red Bull is OK with Honda being so stubborn and doing things their way.
Unless they got some major influence in the PU design the decision makes no sense.
That's why I was thinking a VAG brand might want to get some experience prior to 2021.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
RIC has been saying he'll only stay past 2018 if Red Bull can fight for the title there. That doesn't look super likely so I'm sure Ferrari is salivating.
Either way not looking forward to Best Teammates breaking up. They're just such joy together: https://www.facebook.com/redbullracing/videos/1506942809352203/
Either way not looking forward to Best Teammates breaking up. They're just such joy together: https://www.facebook.com/redbullracing/videos/1506942809352203/
I love that this is how they came back from the holiday after what happened in Hungary...
Booo this. Lol
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Wankel you off.
Development
Member
Are they really gonna 'dump' Bottas like that? Thanks for 2 years of filling in the gap of Verstappens contract, goodbye.
brotkasten
Member
Why else would they extend his contract for only a year?
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Honda builds good and reliable engines, the majority of the troubles this season all stem from McLaren's incompetence and misjudgement; from the last minute switch of fuel and oil supplier to the dodgy gearbox, and their recently revealed input into the hybrid elements.
I'm very much looking forward to next season when Toro Rosso Honda humiliate McLaren and Alonso.
I think two years is long enough opportunity for Bottas to step up and show that he can perform on the same level as Hamilton and Vettel.
If he cannot, it would be foolish of Mercedes to not grab one of the available Red Bull drivers at the end of next season, especially in case if Hamilton were to retire out of the blue one day.
Norwegian Rudo
Member
Any word on how McLaren plan to replace the Honda money? Saw an estimate recently that had $200 million of their $300 odd million budget coming from Honda.
McLaren isn't really dead in the water without Honda's money. They're a huge company, much larger than just its F1 team. They'll be fine.
I bet a large part of making up for the loss of money is the fact they'll actually get to place higher in the championship and win more prize money, as well as attracting more sponsors by not being complete dogshit.
I bet a large part of making up for the loss of money is the fact they'll actually get to place higher in the championship and win more prize money, as well as attracting more sponsors by not being complete dogshit.
Norwegian Rudo
Member
They're not going to make $200 in prize money, and I seem to recall they were struggling to get sponsors even before the Honda deal. That may have been Ron Dennis' fault though...
Even if they make an extra $50 million in prize money, which seems optimistic, that's still $150 million, plus whatever they're paying Renault, they have to make up.
Where's this 200 million number coming from. AFAIK it's 100 million.
Lemonte
Member
Saw this on reddit. I don't know how accurate it is.
F1 constructor budgets from sponsors and partners 2017
Seems high, I found where I got my 100 million number from, for the record:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-honda-nearing-fork-in-the-road-idUSKBN18Y297
The rumours point to £100m/year from Honda to McLaren rather than £200m. There was also no evidence that these payments were for the whole 10 years of the contract either.
Ultimately there's more to this than simply money for money's sake. Since Honda have come on board McLaren have already lost Mobil after a 20 year partnership, TAG Heuer after 35 years and their income from Diageo has been greatly reduced as they've looked to get more value from Force India. Long term partners, gone or greatly reduced in a matter of two seasons because nobody wants to pay top team money for 9th in the constructors championship.
The other problem is loss of personnel. Alonso wanted out and it would only be a matter of time before key technical staff were looking for the door because their motivation can't just be bought. These are competitive sports people. They need results on the track too.
Fox Mulder
Member
Maybe Redbull can go buy some Mercedes Project Ones
Norwegian Rudo
Member
Max's comments here certainly seem to imply he may be able to leave after next year
http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/_sto6333514/story.shtml
http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/_sto6333514/story.shtml
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
We shouldn't underestimate the merchandise revenue of a competitive team.. And if they're more competitive, sponsors will be knocking the door... you'll be surprised how easy they can make money from those stickers
Now that Ron is gone (it even rhymes!), so many closed doors can be re-opened for championship sponsors
can't believe I used to be a fan of Ron! .. Still a fan of Flavio though,, 
He supposedly has some sort of performance clause in his contract, similarly to what Vettel had that allowed him to bow out to the red team. So in that context the comments make sense where he says "I just want to see what will happen at the beginning of 2018 and then we will know."
brotkasten
Member
Fox Mulder
Member
Redbull denied this, saying vettel had that because he was a WDC and could get it in negotiations.
Wonder if this could be it for Redbull really. Honda is still going to be a shit box. They'll lose both drivers, currently have a dried up young drivers program, and the new engine formula isn't until 2021.
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
at worst case scenario they will suffer in 2019 and 2020, if Honda didn't get their act together by then. in 2021 there will be Porsche.. with Redbull money they might be even more tempted to join F1
xrnzaaas
Member
Buy a Project One, dismantle it, analyze it, build your own engine, profit. ;p
Wow never thought Renault would be the ones to cancel that contract but I guess the longer things went on with Mercedes and Ferrari dominating and Honda not getting any better, the more likely it became that Renault would take one too many kickings from Horner and finally say "Hey buddy, fuck you, enjoy your Honda engine next season."
Unless Honda pulls a miracle, Red Bull will be in an even worse position than now and not the place you want to be at.
I guess that means our hopes for close championships have to rest on this year's Ferrari not being a fluke, because nobody else is gonna step up to Mercedes until 2021 barring freak development accidents.
I guess that means our hopes for close championships have to rest on this year's Ferrari not being a fluke, because nobody else is gonna step up to Mercedes until 2021 barring freak development accidents.
Fox Mulder
Member
Renault was likely to focus more on their own factory team performance at some point. Why even put up with customers complaining. I doubt they'll give the same long time redbull preference to McLaren now.
McLaren is probably looking at other options for 2021 instead of a long term customer deal with Renault.
Norwegian Rudo
Member
That was why I thought his quotes were so interesting.
Am I the only one thinking there's a more than decent chance it will be Felipe Massa?
With McLaren seemingly keeping Alonso I fully expect Jenson Button to be at Williams next year, and Williams have some kind of involvement with Jaguar...
On a similar note, with Wehrlein seemingly out of options, might Mercedes find him a drive in FE to get him ready to front their team? Although that is another two years away...
scorcher59
Member
Even then that's ni guarantee that Mercedes hit the ground running with their 2021 powerplant, they already did it once when the new regs started in 2014, they could do it again...
Dutch Gronk
Banned
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