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[Jomjom]

It's probably just because I'm dumb but why would this kill their business? People are willing to buy used games at GS for $5 off the new price. So if the fee for a used game is say, $10, which I would think is on the high side, all they would have to do is sell their game for $15 less, which would still give them a good profit.

 

[Punkster_NY]

that fucking funny....they were the last to know. xD

 

[harSon]

I'm so sick of hearing this shit.

The auto industry doesn't whine when I sell my car saying they think they're
entitled to a cut. The same thing with selling my blu rays, or music CDs or
any other physical property I own.

All the whining is coming from game developers and publishers who only
care about finding ways to fatten their wallets at our expense.

Now they'll decide to stick you with online authentication and block
used game sales and ram DLC down your throat.

I want these same developers to give a cut of their money to car companies
when they sell their car privately. I mean, it's only fair, right?

MS is doing their very best to destroy any fun and goodwill left in the
gaming industry.

Guess what? Isn't video gaming about having fun? It's ridiculous that
after a major company announces their system that instead of being
excited about it, gamers have to figure out how bad they're getting shafted
by built in anti-consumer measures.

I love how people pretend that the video game industry is the only industry that concerns itself with maximizing profit by curbing the second hand market. News flash: Every industry that has the capability of curbing the second hand market, has recently made strides to make that a reality. We've seen this within media related industries (video games, movies and music) with a huge push for the transition away from retail towards digital. We've seen it with publishing, with the push for Tablets and E-Ink Readers. The text book market has implemented rapid edition changes, and online components to their text books to hinder their second hand worth.

And it's disingenuous to suggest that used cars and used games are at all similar. The games industry is the only industry where there are major brick and mortar retail stores (many of which built empires on the backs of used games) that dedicate major store space to used products whose brand new counterparts are only days or weeks old. Cars are used for an expanded amount of time, and degrade (physically and in value) over the course of its usage, and new ones eventually need to be purchased at some point. Games can be played for the few hours it takes, and once you're done with it, can be sold to someone else (days to weeks later) and that person will have EXACTLY THE SAME experience as you did. There's little advantage to buying a new game in that scenario. And unlike cars, publishers/developers don't have the benefit of having retail dealerships to sell their own used products. It's a unique issue that cannot be directly compared to any other industry's situation.

It's pretty clear that the current direction of the industry is unsustainable, but honestly, outside of practices that are considered anti-consumer, what can the industry do to fix the mess it's in? It's obviously not healthy considering the rate at which developers are closing up shop. And this is where the problem's situated. The PC, mobile and browser gaming industry have solved their problem by shifting to the digital space, alongside setting some games at a lower price point.

Console games have already tried to lower the price of entry through Arcade/PSN style games, but it's pretty much impossible to lower the cost of development for AAA titles due to market demands. While their are certainly successes within lesser budgeted circles, for the most part, it's your mainstream blockbusters that are growing and expanding the industry into the mega force it is today. Is it unsustainable in its current form? Absolutely, but unless market tastes shift dramatically or the industry collectively lowers the scope of the games they're developing, then the current path of big budget AAA development is unlikely to stop.

The other course of action is to mitigate used games by shifting consoles to the digital space like PC, mobile and browser developers have done, but anytime such an idea is hinted at, hardcore consumers lose their damn minds. Outside of lowering the cost of development or shifting the industry into the online digital space, pretty much everything the industry could do to protect itself is considered anti-consumer. Downloadable content, DRM, a shift away from single player to online play, always online consoles, etc. There's honestly not much the industry can do. A lot of people say to "make games that consumers want to play," but there are several developers that have folded this generation despite making quality games. People will also say to scale back the scope of development and lower costs, but consumers clearly want the opposite considering the games that they're ultimately supporting.

 

[TAJ]

Wait a minute.....I've noticed the words "visiting friends" used a lot when spokespeople have been talking about this. They don't mention "loaning the disk". Now I know this is tinfoil hat territory for sure, but given Kinect can recognise your face I wonder if you need to be in the room before it will play or login to your profile.

Wow. If it wasn't happening before, then it is now. Thanks, lol.

 

[phosphor112]

Wow.... it'd be amazing if gamestop did that.

I wonder if all those trade in game shops will do that...

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I imagine GameFly or similar services can't be too happy either.

As for GameStop possibly not selling Xbox... I don't know. I mean I thought margins on the hardware were pretty slim. But money is really made from accessories and games from what I understand.

 

[freddy]

People that are saying they hope this ends Gamestop, why?

You have to remember that a there is a very large contingent of industry people that post at NeoGAF. I'm not saying everyone is Peter Moore but you would have a lot of the industry grass roots people that post here and would have a strong opinion on things that affect their livelihoods and careers. Often times this would clash with the views of consumers.

 

[Spongebob]

Surprised that they weren't told...

They're a pretty important retail partner.

 

[Lucent]

Apparently it didn't cause them to take this down.

 

[Sblargh]

Wait a minute.....I've noticed the words "visiting friends" used a lot when spokespeople have been talking about this. They don't mention "loaning the disk". Now I know this is tinfoil hat territory for sure, but given Kinect can recognise your face I wonder if you need to be in the room before it will play or login to your profile.

It's probably something far less creepy as letting only one XBone being logged in at the same time. So you go to your friend's house, you log in with your account, this disconnects you at home, you play the game and if you leave the disk there then you'll either be locked out of your library at home (because your friend will be using your account) or the disk will be a dead weight in his house (because you are using your account at home)

 

[EMT0]

I'm so sick of hearing this shit.

The auto industry doesn't whine when I sell my car saying they think they're
entitled to a cut. The same thing with selling my blu rays, or music CDs or
any other physical property I own.

All the whining is coming from game developers and publishers who only
care about finding ways to fatten their wallets at our expense.

Now they'll decide to stick you with online authentication and block
used game sales and ram DLC down your throat.

I want these same developers to give a cut of their money to car companies
when they sell their car privately. I mean, it's only fair, right?

MS is doing their very best to destroy any fun and goodwill left in the
gaming industry.

Guess what? Isn't video gaming about having fun? It's ridiculous that
after a major company announces their system that instead of being
excited about it, gamers have to figure out how bad they're getting shafted
by built in anti-consumer measures.

Wow, this deserves to be quoted often.

 

[Chiggs]

One can't help but wonder what this will have in store for Gamestop

They'll just start buying gold, and set up Cricket kiosks in their stores.

 

[Kazerei]

It's probably just because I'm dumb but why would this kill their business? People are willing to buy used games at GS for $5 off the new price. So if the fee for a used game is say, $10, which I would think is on the high side, all they would have to do is sell their game for $15 less, which would still give them a good profit.

Supposedly it's not going to be a small fee (like an online pass). You will actually have to pay the full price of the game to activate it. Basically a used game disc won't be worth much; it just saves you the hassle of downloading 10-20GB or whatever the game size is.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=560877

 

[mightynine]

I love how people pretend that the video game industry is the only industry that concerns itself with maximizing profit by curbing the second hand market.

I'm sorry, was the item's price when sold as new not at a level where they profited off of it?

 

[IrishNinja]

however you feel about gamestop, cheering for the death of your ability to resell games is anti-consumer.

also, good luck finding titles out of print too...man i wish the demonisation would end, it doesn't make any sense

 

[Pyronite]

I love how people pretend that the video game industry is the only industry that concerns itself with maximizing profit by curbing the second hand market. News flash: Every industry that has the capability of curbing the second hand market, has recently made strides to make that a reality. We've seen this within media related industries (video games, movies and music) with a huge push for the transition away from retail towards digital. We've seen it with publishing, with the push for Tablets and E-Ink Readers. The text book market has implemented rapid edition changes, and online components to their text books to hinder their second hand worth.

And it's disingenuous to suggest that used cars and used games are at all similar. The games industry is the only industry where there are major brick and mortar retail stores (many of which built empires on the backs of used games) that dedicate major store space to used products whose brand new counterparts are only days or weeks old. Cars are used for an expanded amount of time, and degrade (physically and in value) over the course of its usage, and new ones eventually need to be purchased at some point. Games can be played for the few hours it takes, and once you're done with it, can be sold to someone else (days to weeks later) and that person will have EXACTLY THE SAME experience as you did. There's little advantage to buying a new game in that scenario. And unlike cars, publishers/developers don't have the benefit of having retail dealerships to sell their own used products. It's a unique issue that cannot be directly compared to any other industry's situation.

It's pretty clear that the current direction of the industry is unsustainable, but honestly, outside of practices that are considered anti-consumer, what can the industry do to fix the mess it's in? It's obviously not healthy considering the rate at which developers are closing up shop. And this is where the problem's situated. The PC, mobile and browser gaming industry have solved their problem by shifting to the digital space, alongside setting some games at a lower price point.

Console games have already tried to lower the price of entry through Arcade/PSN style games, but it's pretty much impossible to lower the cost of development for AAA titles due to market demands. While their are certainly successes within lesser budgeted circles, for the most part, it's your mainstream blockbusters that are growing and expanding the industry into the mega force it is today. Is it unsustainable in its current form? Absolutely, but unless market tastes shift dramatically or the industry collectively lowers the scope of the games they're developing, then the current path of big budget AAA development is unlikely to stop.

The other course of action is to mitigate used games by shifting consoles to the digital space like PC, mobile and browser developers have done, but anytime such an idea is hinted at, hardcore consumers lose their damn minds. Outside of lowering the cost of development or shifting the industry into the online digital space, pretty much everything the industry could do to protect itself is considered anti-consumer. Downloadable content, DRM, a shift away from single player to online play, always online consoles, etc. There's honestly not much the industry can do. A lot of people say to "make games that consumers want to play," but there are several developers that have folded this generation despite making quality games. People will also say to scale back the scope of development and lower costs, but consumers clearly want the opposite considering the games that they're ultimately supporting.

Much more realistic post than Ultrazilla's.

 

[mightynine]

Much more realistic post than Ultrazilla's.

Are you kidding? He's basically saying that it's my fault the industry is failing, not the people running it.

If they aren't making enough money from their product - charge more for it, and let the customer decide if it's worth it.

But they are too chicken-shit to do that, so they'll just try to bleed the customer dry instead. Screw that.

 

[Palette Swap]

The moment you make GS look like the good guys is when you should realize you've fucked up.

The nihilist in me wants to see how a war would play out.

Edit: regarding the current state of the industry, it won't magically save it. Killing trade-ins means the average revenue per game will grow but the number of copies/number of titles sold will decrease. If anything, it will focus the market even more on a few franchises.

 

[Version 3.0]

People will also say to scale back the scope of development and lower costs, but consumers clearly want the opposite considering the games that they're ultimately supporting.

But the best-selling games this gen weren't the most expensive. Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Angry Birds, Nintendogs, New Super Mario Bros, Wii Fit, Brain Age, Pokemon, Kinect Adventures akk sold better than any "AAA" game. Yes, even Call of Duty.

 

[harSon]

Are you kidding? He's basically saying that it's my fault the industry is failing, not the people running it.

If they aren't making enough money from their product - charge more for it, and let the customer decide if it's worth it.

But they are too chicken-shit to do that, so they'll just try to bleed the customer dry instead. Screw that.

Or they can implement anti-consumer features, and then the consumer is free to decide whether they want to still purchase the product or not.

 

[Branduil]

Gamestop hardly has that kind of clout.

People will just go to Walmart.

Only if people want to buy the Xbox One.

 

[Godslay]

I love how people pretend that the video game industry is the only industry that concerns itself with maximizing profit by curbing the second hand market. News flash: Every industry that has the capability of curbing the second hand market, has recently made strides to make that a reality. We've seen this within media related industries (video games, movies and music) with a huge push for the transition away from retail towards digital. We've seen it with publishing, with the push for Tablets and E-Ink Readers. The text book market has implemented rapid edition changes, and online components to their text books to hinder their second hand worth.

And it's disingenuous to suggest that used cars and used games are at all similar. The games industry is the only industry where there are major brick and mortar retail stores (many of which built empires on the backs of used games) that dedicate major store space to used products whose brand new counterparts are only days or weeks old. Cars are used for an expanded amount of time, and degrade (physically and in value) over the course of its usage, and new ones eventually need to be purchased at some point. Games can be played for the few hours it takes, and once you're done with it, can be sold to someone else (days to weeks later) and that person will have EXACTLY THE SAME experience as you did. There's little advantage to buying a new game in that scenario. And unlike cars, publishers/developers don't have the benefit of having retail dealerships to sell their own used products. It's a unique issue that cannot be directly compared to any other industry's situation.

It's pretty clear that the current direction of the industry is unsustainable, but honestly, outside of practices that are considered anti-consumer, what can the industry do to fix the mess it's in? It's obviously not healthy considering the rate at which developers are closing up shop. And this is where the problem's situated. The PC, mobile and browser gaming industry have solved their problem by shifting to the digital space, alongside setting some games at a lower price point.

Console games have already tried to lower the price of entry through Arcade/PSN style games, but it's pretty much impossible to lower the cost of development for AAA titles due to market demands. While their are certainly successes within lesser budgeted circles, for the most part, it's your mainstream blockbusters that are growing and expanding the industry into the mega force it is today. Is it unsustainable in its current form? Absolutely, but unless market tastes shift dramatically or the industry collectively lowers the scope of the games they're developing, then the current path of big budget AAA development is unlikely to stop.

The other course of action is to mitigate used games by shifting consoles to the digital space like PC, mobile and browser developers have done, but anytime such an idea is hinted at, hardcore consumers lose their damn minds. Outside of lowering the cost of development or shifting the industry into the online digital space, pretty much everything the industry could do to protect itself is considered anti-consumer. Downloadable content, DRM, a shift away from single player to online play, always online consoles, etc. There's honestly not much the industry can do. A lot of people say to "make games that consumers want to play," but there are several developers that have folded this generation despite making quality games. People will also say to scale back the scope of development and lower costs, but consumers clearly want the opposite considering the games that they're ultimately supporting.

Great post Harson. More reflective of the situation.

 

[mightynine]

Or they can implement anti-consumer features, and then the consumer is free to decide whether they want to still purchase the product or not.

I....I can't believe you actually think this is a response. Going against the consumer won't help the industry, it will make it more of a niche product.

 

[JasonUresti]

Or they can implement anti-consumer features, and then the consumer is free to decide whether they want to still purchase the product or not.

If your product/business is broke, you don't put the blame on the consumer.

Pretty sure I can buy DRM free music and e-reader files too, friendo.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

It's probably just because I'm dumb but why would this kill their business? People are willing to buy used games at GS for $5 off the new price. So if the fee for a used game is say, $10, which I would think is on the high side, all they would have to do is sell their game for $15 less, which would still give them a good profit.

From what I've gathered, unless I'm sorely mistaken, Microsoft's new system takes Gamestop right out of the loop. When you go to register that used game, THAT'S when you pay for it. And it's going to be a lot more than $5 to $15. No one's going to buy a used game for 30 or 40 bucks at GS and then pay another 30, 40 or more to register it.

 

[harSon]

But the best-selling games this gen weren't the most expensive. Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Angry Birds, Nintendogs, New Super Mario Bros, Wii Fit, Brain Age, Pokemon, Kinect Adventures akk sold better than any "AAA" game. Yes, even Call of Duty.

The best selling games on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 were 95% Blockbuster 'AAA' games. It's not even questionable. Madden, Fifa, Assassins Creed, Gears of War, Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo, Forza, God of War, Uncharted, etc. Look at the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games Pretty much the only non-bundled, non-AAA PS3/360 game that has comparable sales to these titles is Minecraft.

It's pretty clear what types of games people want when they're purchasing Microsoft or Sony's console.

If your product/business is broke, you don't put the blame on the consumer.

Pretty sure I can buy DRM free music and e-reader files too, friendo.

And once the Xbox One comes out, you'll still be able to buy DRM free games elsewhere. I'm just saying that the consumer at large is not going to really give a shit, considering Itunes and Kindle marketplace are the biggest stores within their respective industries.

 

[harSon]

Edit: Double Post

 

[Dragon]

Great post Harson. More reflective of the situation.

Not really.

It's just rationalizing why Microsoft is doing this from their perspective. We already know why. They want more money. Why should I give them more? Nothing they showed made me believe that I can accept this anti-consumer crap from them.

And once the Xbox One comes out, you'll still be able to buy DRM free games elsewhere. I'm just saying that the consumer at large is not going to really give a shit, considering Itunes and Kindle marketplace are the biggest stores within their industries.

Whether Joe Six pack cares about is not the point of why people are complaining about it. We care about it because it is anti-consumer. Most likely Microsoft will get away with this and it will be successful. So that makes it okay? Seriously that's how we're going to decide whether it's okay? How successful it is? How dangerous is that sort of precedence?

 

[IchigoSharingan]

I'm so sick of hearing this shit.

The auto industry doesn't whine when I sell my car saying they think they're
entitled to a cut. The same thing with selling my blu rays, or music CDs or
any other physical property I own.

All the whining is coming from game developers and publishers who only
care about finding ways to fatten their wallets at our expense.

Now they'll decide to stick you with online authentication and block
used game sales and ram DLC down your throat.

I want these same developers to give a cut of their money to car companies
when they sell their car privately. I mean, it's only fair, right?

MS is doing their very best to destroy any fun and goodwill left in the
gaming industry.

Guess what? Isn't video gaming about having fun? It's ridiculous that
after a major company announces their system that instead of being
excited about it, gamers have to figure out how bad they're getting shafted
by built in anti-consumer measures.

It's like you make sense or something. You do not belong in this world!

 

[mightynine]

And once the Xbox One comes out, you'll still be able to buy DRM free games elsewhere. I'm just saying that the consumer at large is not going to really give a shit, considering Itunes and Kindle marketplace are the biggest stores within their industries.

And those stores offer ways to share what you have bought.

Want to share an album I bought in iTunes? Burn a CD. (I will admit sharing a movie is not as easy.)

Want to share a book between Kindles? That's an available option.

Want to share a Xbox One game? Tough!

 

[Ponn]

The best selling games on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 were 95% Blockbuster 'AAA' games. It's not even questionable. Madden, Fifa, Assassins Creed, Gears of War, Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo, Forza, God of War, Uncharted, etc. Look at the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games Pretty much the only non-bundled, non-AAA PS3/360 game that has comparable sales to these titles is Minecraft.

It's pretty clear what types of games people want when they're purchasing Microsoft or Sony's console.

And which ones were more profitable relatively for the respective developers/pubs? Yes alot of people want those AAA games, but the industry keeps feeding the masses these games and telling them they want them through hype and huge marketing machines. It's a broken model, but just like other corporations that see dips in profits and don't look at the actual problems for why they are losing profits and instead make short term/short sighted decisons to just boost profit margins does not excuse anti-consumer tactics. Movie studios have their tentpole AAA movies, but they also have their lower budget films to subsidize their studios and they have consumer friendly pricing models for their home entertainment without having to take away actual ownership from the consumer.

And once the Xbox One comes out, you'll still be able to buy DRM free games elsewhere. I'm just saying that the consumer at large is not going to really give a shit, considering Itunes and Kindle marketplace are the biggest stores within their respective industries.

Those are low priced impulse buy examples. I think these systems will still sell, and the games will still sell, especially at launch, but the long term implications of this are going to be visible. How the pubs and developers react will be interesting.

 

[flintstryker]

I'm so sick of hearing this shit.

The auto industry doesn't whine when I sell my car saying they think they're
entitled to a cut. The same thing with selling my blu rays, or music CDs or
any other physical property I own.

All the whining is coming from game developers and publishers who only
care about finding ways to fatten their wallets at our expense.

Now they'll decide to stick you with online authentication and block
used game sales and ram DLC down your throat.

I want these same developers to give a cut of their money to car companies
when they sell their car privately. I mean, it's only fair, right?

MS is doing their very best to destroy any fun and goodwill left in the
gaming industry.

Guess what? Isn't video gaming about having fun? It's ridiculous that
after a major company announces their system that instead of being
excited about it, gamers have to figure out how bad they're getting shafted
by built in anti-consumer measures.

Brilliant brilliant post

 

[TryHardShounen]

"Hello! Welcome to Gamestop. Would you like to pre-order..."

"Okay then, would you like to trade in..."

"Uh........ say! Would you like to trade in any unwanted iOS or Android devices!?"

Gamestop 2014~20XX

 

[Revan]

I love how people pretend that the video game industry is the only industry that concerns itself with maximizing profit by curbing the second hand market. News flash: Every industry that has the capability of curbing the second hand market, has recently made strides to make that a reality. We've seen this within media related industries (video games, movies and music) with a huge push for the transition away from retail towards digital. We've seen it with publishing, with the push for Tablets and E-Ink Readers. The text book market has implemented rapid edition changes, and online components to their text books to hinder their second hand worth.

And it's disingenuous to suggest that used cars and used games are at all similar. The games industry is the only industry where there are major brick and mortar retail stores (many of which built empires on the backs of used games) that dedicate major store space to used products whose brand new counterparts are only days or weeks old. Cars are used for an expanded amount of time, and degrade (physically and in value) over the course of its usage, and new ones eventually need to be purchased at some point. Games can be played for the few hours it takes, and once you're done with it, can be sold to someone else (days to weeks later) and that person will have EXACTLY THE SAME experience as you did. There's little advantage to buying a new game in that scenario. And unlike cars, publishers/developers don't have the benefit of having retail dealerships to sell their own used products. It's a unique issue that cannot be directly compared to any other industry's situation.

It's pretty clear that the current direction of the industry is unsustainable, but honestly, outside of practices that are considered anti-consumer, what can the industry do to fix the mess it's in? It's obviously not healthy considering the rate at which developers are closing up shop. And this is where the problem's situated. The PC, mobile and browser gaming industry have solved their problem by shifting to the digital space, alongside setting some games at a lower price point.

Console games have already tried to lower the price of entry through Arcade/PSN style games, but it's pretty much impossible to lower the cost of development for AAA titles due to market demands. While their are certainly successes within lesser budgeted circles, for the most part, it's your mainstream blockbusters that are growing and expanding the industry into the mega force it is today. Is it unsustainable in its current form? Absolutely, but unless market tastes shift dramatically or the industry collectively lowers the scope of the games they're developing, then the current path of big budget AAA development is unlikely to stop.

The other course of action is to mitigate used games by shifting consoles to the digital space like PC, mobile and browser developers have done, but anytime such an idea is hinted at, hardcore consumers lose their damn minds. Outside of lowering the cost of development or shifting the industry into the online digital space, pretty much everything the industry could do to protect itself is considered anti-consumer. Downloadable content, DRM, a shift away from single player to online play, always online consoles, etc. There's honestly not much the industry can do. A lot of people say to "make games that consumers want to play," but there are several developers that have folded this generation despite making quality games. People will also say to scale back the scope of development and lower costs, but consumers clearly want the opposite considering the games that they're ultimately supporting.

Say I'm watching my brother's kids after school at my place and they come over with the latest Skylanders game cause they wanna play it while waiting for mommy and daddy to come pick them up - now they can't because the moment the disc is put into the drive I'm forced to buy the fucking thing all over again, making the kids upset that they can't play their game all of a sudden.

By your logic this is the kids parents's faults as a consumer?

FUCK THAT.

And once the Xbox One comes out, you'll still be able to buy DRM free games elsewhere. I'm just saying that the consumer at large is not going to really give a shit, considering Itunes and Kindle marketplace are the biggest stores within their industries.

They will when they find out that the game the let their buddy/brother/sister/whatever can't be used without buying the whole fucking thing over again for full price, basically rendering the point of "I'm gonna be gone a week so here - takes my games while I'm gone" completely pointless.

Everything I have on iOS devices is 100% DRM free - Apple THEMSELVES sell DRM Free music. None of the eReader apps that I use have DRM restrictions on them (including iBooks).

Regardless of the "uniqueness" of the industry, forcing the consumer to pay for the mistakes made by the corporations is akin to taxing the poor for the rich making mistakes (bailout in 08/09 anyone?)

 

[Cake Boss]

Yeah guys this is exactly like other industries.

I am going to lend my sister my car tomorrow and she's going to need to make an instant down payment on the car or it won't work.

Later I am going to lend my The Wire DVD set to my brother whos going to need to purchase it again in order to watch it.

 

[harSon]

Say I'm watching my brother's kids after school at my place and they come over with the latest Skylanders game cause they wanna play it while waiting for mommy and daddy to come pick them up - now they can't because the moment the disc is put into the drive I'm forced to buy the fucking thing all over again, making the kids upset that they can't play their game all of a sudden.

By your logic this is the kids parents's faults as a consumer?

FUCK THAT.

No, you'd just have to sign into your profile and you'd be able to play the game for free.

They will when they find out that the game the let their buddy/brother/sister/whatever can't be used without buying the whole fucking thing over again for full price, basically rendering the point of "I'm gonna be gone a week so here - takes my games while I'm gone" completely pointless.

Everything I have on iOS devices is 100% DRM free - Apple THEMSELVES sell DRM Free music. None of the eReader apps that I use have DRM restrictions on them (including iBooks).

Regardless of the "uniqueness" of the industry, forcing the consumer to pay for the mistakes made by the corporations is akin to taxing the poor for the rich making mistakes (bailout in 08/09 anyone?)

Kindle is only DRM free if you strip it away through a 3rd party program. Same with itunes non-music media, it also requires a 3rd party program to strip away the DRM.

Whether Joe Six pack cares about is not the point of why people are complaining about it. We care about it because it is anti-consumer. Most likely Microsoft will get away with this and it will be successful. So that makes it okay? Seriously that's how we're going to decide whether it's okay? How successful it is? How dangerous is that sort of precedence?

Honestly, it's an acceptance of inevitability. There's no precedence to be set. All media related industries are transitioning away from physical retail towards digital, and gaming is no exception. The change is happening at a rapid pace, and the day is going to come when the boundaries between console gaming and a service like steam are going to be blurred to the point of non-recognition.

 

[oldergamer]

I'm so sick of hearing this shit.

The auto industry doesn't whine when I sell my car saying they think they're
entitled to a cut. The same thing with selling my blu rays, or music CDs or
any other physical property I own.

All the whining is coming from game developers and publishers who only
care about finding ways to fatten their wallets at our expense.

Now they'll decide to stick you with online authentication and block
used game sales and ram DLC down your throat.

I want these same developers to give a cut of their money to car companies
when they sell their car privately. I mean, it's only fair, right?

MS is doing their very best to destroy any fun and goodwill left in the
gaming industry.

Guess what? Isn't video gaming about having fun? It's ridiculous that
after a major company announces their system that instead of being
excited about it, gamers have to figure out how bad they're getting shafted
by built in anti-consumer measures.

All the people blindly agreeing with you are not seeing clearly. You are comparing games to the wrong industry. A video game is entertainment that should be compared to movies and NOT the auto biz. You get a certain amount of hours of enjoyment out of it, then its done. Nobody that isn't bloody rich wants to sell a car 8 hours after purchasing it.

The movie industry gets to sell movies to the general public in theaters, on dvd, rentals, on demand streaming etc. Consoles games get to be sold in retail or digital, or sometimes both, but there's so many games and so much of the market that never sees those games that makes it necessary to have more opportunities to make money!

 

[Parakeetman]

To be a fly on the wall in his office when he found out.

We got drones for that!

 

[Freezie KO]

All the people blindly agreeing with you are not seeing clearly. You are comparing games to the wrong industry. A video game is entertainment that should be compared to movies and NOT the auto biz. You get a certain amount of hours of enjoyment out of it, then its done. Nobody that isn't bloody rich wants to sell a car 8 hours after purchasing it.

The movie industry gets to sell movies to the general public in theaters, on dvd, rentals, on demand streaming etc. Consoles games get to be sold in retail or digital, or sometimes both, but there's so many games and so much of the market that never sees those games that makes it necessary to have more opportunities to make money!

The most popular movies cost more than video games to produce. Yet movies cost significantly less than video games to consume. If you see a film in a theater, rent it later on iTunes, and then decide to buy it on Blu-Ray, you still haven't reached the cost of a $60 game. Also, you can then take that Blu-Ray or DVD and lend it to as many people as you'd like.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The most popular movies cost more than video games to produce. Yet movies cost significantly less than video games to consume. If you see a film in a theater, rent it later on iTunes, and then decide to buy it on Blu-Ray, you still haven't reached the cost of a $60 game. Also, you can then take that Blu-Ray or DVD and lend it to as many people as you'd like.

You pointed out exactly why movies are cheaper. They have a lot more revenues streams than gaming.

Theater, blu-ray, digital, tv rights, streaming rights, overseas tv rights, etc.

Add all this together and movies are probably making more than $60. A lot more.

 

[TGO]

Gamestop will be ok, they have Wii,Wii U, PS3 and 360 not to mention the handhelds and PS4 is Sony allows it
MS on the other hand.....well I would say its an unnecessary self inflicted disadvantage to MS
but this don't just effect GS, I'm from the UK and while I buy all my stuff new and have super fast broadband a lot of people don't
They have 360's & PS3's and buy second hand and aren't connected in any shape or form other then their payasyougo mobile phone, MS is cutting them completely out.
I'm not sure where MS is going with this, but Xbox One will really be a premium console for some people.

 

[Terrell]

I like how he's in disbelief that they could do it. Man, is tomorrow going to be an awful day for him when the "rumors" are found true.

So Gamestop's options:

1) not sell the console
2) not sell the games
3) not accept XBOne game trade-ins
4) all of the above


But at least they have options. The business model that REALLY got fucked over today was Gamefly.

 

[artist]

Ultrazilla's post makes more sense than harson's.

 

[AlphaDump]

All the people blindly agreeing with you are not seeing clearly. You are comparing games to the wrong industry. A video game is entertainment that should be compared to movies and NOT the auto biz. You get a certain amount of hours of enjoyment out of it, then its done. Nobody that isn't bloody rich wants to sell a car 8 hours after purchasing it.

The movie industry gets to sell movies to the general public in theaters, on dvd, rentals, on demand streaming etc. Consoles games get to be sold in retail or digital, or sometimes both, but there's so many games and so much of the market that never sees those games that makes it necessary to have more opportunities to make money!

you are falling into the same trap. the videogame industry is not comparable to any other industry, which is why its become the bastard that it is. The reality is publishers have squeezed and shaved every piece of fat out of the development process that they have seen perpetual growth month over month, and stockholders demand quaterly that they show them what next quarter entails, and hence we get a sea of bullshit. Too big to fail gaming is doing exactly that, but it's because of management decisions. What can we do to keep growing? It sure as fuck isn't going to be adding anymore cost. Their market is a projected pool, if it's projected at 500k sales, it will get that funding, if 5 million, it gets that funding. Well now the tides have changed, the market has essentially become too top heavy and reliant on the unsustainable model that it currently runs in. It's essentially maxed itself out, and they need a new source of perpetual growth and revenue. Why is marketing so expensive in relation to the actual development of a game? The writing has been on the wall for a very long time.

Temps, outsourced development, and now cutting out re-sales is just another way to shave everything off the top.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Gamestop left out of the loop by MS on their plan to f**k them... You don't say!!

 

[Sadist]

Yikes

 

[Data West]

Gamestop hardly has that kind of clout.

People will just go to Walmart.

In the past, I've worked in a Target and a Gamestop. Big stores like Target and Wal-Mart don't sell anywhere NEAR as many games as Gamestop does. Nevermind that stuff like, the most recent example, Dragon's Dogma don't even show up there.

 

[DESTROYA]

What has this world come to! One corporation screwing with the other corporation with the little guy (us) paying the price.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Wow, they didn't know. Sony surprises us with 8GB of ram over the speculated 4 and MS surprises us with this bullshit even Gamestop didn't know about.

Amazing.

 

[Kincaido]

RIP in peace.