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[Mesoian]

Most of the unlocks are already floating around, they'd fit right in with that lineup.

Most of the stuff I've seen centered around Cassie, Sonya and Jax's daughter, and I don't doubt that there'll be stuff in the game that's super crazy.

But like, imagine if half the women in MK didn't dress in swimsuits. Imagine how that would shift the visual tone of the game. That seems to be what MK10 is trying to do. And hell, if people want their super skimpy outfits, let it be free DLC. Let's give the people some options!

 

[QueenOfThorns]

My argument was that MK isn't representative of reality either. You don't see the real problem here, that people think MK is equal to real life situations at all.

What. You're the one arguing that. The topics the kids are talking about are video games. None of them think that MK is equal to real life situations at all. The questions and the answers are about design decisions in video games. The kid said that it was off putting to them that they're fighting in such ridiculous outfits in an admittedly less than perfect way, the way uneducated people do.

That combined with your picking apart a comment by a 12 year old and posts saying that MK's design decisions are "just sex" and that people don't freak out about violence because blah blah american culture and puritan values.

Violence isn't bad, sex is.


Again, violence isn't bad, sex is. And let's not talk about those male hussies.

Unless I'm reading this wrong.

 

[PillarEN]

Thank you so much, Obama.

Meanie President

 

[Deleted member 47027]

What. You're the one arguing that. The topics the kids are talking about are video games. None of them think that MK is equal to real life situations at all. The questions and the answers are about design decisions in video games. The kid said that it was off putting to them that they're fighting in such ridiculous outfits in an admittedly less than perfect way, the way uneducated people do.

That combined with your picking apart a comment by a 12 year old and posts saying that MK's design decisions are "just sex" and that people don't freak out about violence because blah blah american culture and puritan values.

And there's a huge gap between "But it's a VIDEO GAME things don't have to make sense!" yet we have people upset Nathan Drake is a stone cold killer and you're supposed to like him. Clothing should absolutely be a focus.

 

[RipperGrim]

Minecraft is being used more and more in classes, that's for sure. 200 UK schools use the game, 3000 schools internationally. Instead of spending time at home and playing the game anyway, they're utilising that time in class for more constructive results. It might be used in creative writing classes, programming where kids are engaging with Boolean logic at the age of 9, strengthening and exploring social interactions between schoolchildren, maths and science, history, geography, learning disabilities, and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI0BN5AWOe8

Wow, that's awesome! The game really does allow for very wide platform of things.

 

[Mesoian]

And there's a huge gap between "But it's a VIDEO GAME things don't have to make sense!" yet we have people upset Nathan Drake is a stone cold killer and you're supposed to like him. Clothing should absolutely be a focus.

Totally. Like, real talk, how many of these people who are like, "NAW THE COSTUMES ARE FINE!" are ready to talk to a 11 year old girl about wearing one?

 

[petran79]

Theo's going to get in trouble, Mortal Kombat is an M rated game.

In the arcade days MK machines (except Germany) were open to everyone. Parents, kids, adults etc
Also kinky games like Pocket Gal, Lady Killer, Miss World Nude 96 etc

At least now parents and kids have a choice!

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Sindel, who can fly. I love it.

It's a well known fact that airforce pilots wear high heels so they can stick the landings better. Same with birds.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Totally. Like, real talk, how many of these people who are like, "NAW THE COSTUMES ARE FINE!" are ready to talk to a 11 year old girl about wearing one?

I hope absolutely goddamn zero.

Don't get me wrong. I like some problematic shit, but MK is goddamned ridiculous.

 

[Mesoian]

I hope absolutely goddamn zero.

Don't get me wrong. I like some problematic shit, but MK is goddamned ridiculous.

Right?

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Also I feel like people getting angry at people criticizing the outfits women wear in video games strange when outrage over that male Final Fantasy character caused them to scale back on his fanservice outfit.

Like obviously blah blah not the same people and shit, but it seems there is a large amount of men uncomfortable with male characters being sexualized the way female characters are routinely.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Totally. Like, real talk, how many of these people who are like, "NAW THE COSTUMES ARE FINE!" are ready to talk to a 11 year old girl about wearing one?

Dance teams dress just about as bad. Whenever I watch "Dance Moms" occasionally, I have to cringe seeing the little girls dance half nude.
Kind of glad SE made the edits on Bravely Default like they did making them legal and such.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Also I feel like people getting angry at people criticizing the outfits women wear in video games strange when outrage over that male Final Fantasy character caused them to scale back on his fanservice outfit.

Like obviously blah blah not the same people and shit, but it seems there is a large amount of men uncomfortable with male characters being sexualized the way female characters are routinely.

That bugs me too. "Why doesn't he cover up" cover up fucking WHAT

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Minecraft is being used more and more in classes, that's for sure. 200 UK schools use the game, 3000 schools internationally. Instead of spending time at home and playing the game anyway, they're utilising that time in class for more constructive results. It might be used in creative writing classes, programming where kids are engaging with Boolean logic at the age of 9, strengthening and exploring social interactions between schoolchildren, maths and science, history, geography, learning disabilities, and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI0BN5AWOe8

This makes me look at Littlebigplanet and go, "Look at what you could have been!!!"

 

[The Adder]

1. Why the fuck you bringing up MK9, given the context of the post you responded to complaining about MK8 and 9?

2.

http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/mk3/sonya/bio/bio.gif

Vs actual MMA fighters

http://www.tellwut.com/uploads/media/image/101677e1425426757o2369.jpg

Ashrah

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...hrah7wx.png/revision/latest?cb=20110709062012

Kira

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net...ut_(11).png/revision/latest?cb=20110709061508

Totally a bathing suit:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...-sprite.gif/revision/latest?cb=20081004201944

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...ANA_ALT.png/revision/latest?cb=20130412200435

Tanya

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...anya-MortalKombat.jpg/revision/20110318024223

I'll give you this, though. I'm more right than you credit me for, but less right than I believed I was. Nitara's going for an archetype, but that archetype's pretty thinly dressed and any time they went back to the classic female ninja look the costume got more and more holes mysteriously

 

[Palculator]

Nice to hear the protagonist's gender is of no real concern. At least, that's what I would hope most people think.

 

[Messofanego]

I meant she was cartoonish because she, quite literally, resembles a female version of Colonel Klink from Hogan's Heroes. She is so over the top evil in her actions that she doesn't come off as a person, she comes off as an ideal that needs to be squashed. She isn't a woman, she is the walking embodiment of human oven, and it makes it hard to take anything she says or does seriously

Spoiler

and it makes her death a moment of comedy rather than a somewhat sobering and incredibly brutal act

.

She is cartoonishly evil in a game where most of the villains, what aren't 20 story war of the worlds walkers, come off as merely obsessive or dedicated to a fault.

Deathshead is cartoonishly evil too

Spoiler

(he puts your friend's brain in a jar that powers an end boss)

so having ridiculous actions doesn't make me take her less seriously. She cares quite a lot for Bubi and is

Spoiler

forced to watch him die

which is where she shows her emotional side. Also, she is

Spoiler

not dead

. Calling her not a woman is kind of a narrow viewpoint, imo.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Most of the stuff I've seen centered around Cassie, Sonya and Jax's daughter, and I don't doubt that there'll be stuff in the game that's super crazy.

But like, imagine if half the women in MK didn't dress in swimsuits. Imagine how that would shift the visual tone of the game. That seems to be what MK10 is trying to do. And hell, if people want their super skimpy outfits, let it be free DLC. Let's give the people some options!

Like I said, the alts are basically on par with the costumes from MK9 with the exception of Mileena's tower unlock costume. Cassie and Jacqui have the most conservative costume designs. The female ninja's are basically in the same ballpark as they've always been.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

This makes me look at Littlebigplanet and go, "Look at what you could have been!!!"

If only it didn't have those shitty, floaty jumps.

 

[Palculator]

But like, imagine if half the women in MK didn't dress in swimsuits. Imagine how that would shift the visual tone of the game. That seems to be what MK10 is trying to do. And hell, if people want their super skimpy outfits, let it be free DLC. Let's give the people some options!

Why make it free DLC, though? Just having the costume including others already gives you the option.

 

[Nekofrog]

Nice to hear the protagonist's gender is of no real concern. At least, that's what I would hope most people think.

Did you just ignore the part where a majority of females want more representation in lead roles or something

 

[Maximo]

Would have been interesting if they asked how many games both the males and females bought each year and how many preordered.

 

[Palculator]

Did you just ignore the part where a majority of females want more representation in lead roles or something

No. I'm referring to this from the OP:

 

[The Adder]

*looks at OP*

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, nah man, nah. None of those would be practical in a fight.

What is it with people only reading one post into what is clearly a conversation?

MK prior to MK8 and post MK9 tended to do prettt solid designs for the female characters' clothes. Don't know what happened in 9 though.

Given that those are all from MK9...

 

[Paper Sparrow]

What is it with people only reading one post into what is clearly a conversation?



Given that those are all from MK9...

Sorry, I don't know MK stuff, so I just looked at the OP.

 

[extralite]

What. You're the one arguing that. The topics the kids are talking about are video games. None of them think that MK is equal to real life situations at all. The questions and the answers are about design decisions in video games. The kid said that it was off putting to them that they're fighting in such ridiculous outfits in an admittedly less than perfect way, the way uneducated people do.

In answer to the italicized, Theo does think exactly that (when it comes to how women dress, or should dress). See my previous italics:

Sexism In Games
Watch the boy and girl talk about this, they are really smart.
Theo (20:47)

Theo: "This game, it's called Mortal Kombat. I really like it, but I notice a lot of the female characters are wearing very scantily clad clothing which doesn't make any sense because if you're playing a videogame like that, you expect everybody to be armored because it's a fighting game! If these girls are dressed how we think we they should be dressed, objectified like this, it just defeats the entire purpose of wearing armor. I just thought it's kind of polluting young kids' brains to think this is how they should dress. Like, this is how women will dress everywhere."

That combined with your picking apart a comment by a 12 year old and posts saying that MK's design decisions are "just sex" and that people don't freak out about violence because blah blah american culture and puritan values.


Unless I'm reading this wrong.

Yes, you are reading it wrong. I never spoke about design decisions, nor did I say anything is "just sex". Nor did I pick his quote apart, it is quoted completely without interruption.

I was replying to posters in this thread who were correctly pointing out that he shouldn't even be playing that game. And used sarcasm to get at the presenter who didn't have any issues with Theo playing this game but seizing the chance to talk about how sex is used in games.

Because sex is bad, but violence isn't. Apparently.

Spoiler

I don't play MK. I don't like the gore.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

Thanks for sharing great insights.

 

[SSReborn]

What is it with people only reading one post into what is clearly a conversation?



Given that those are all from MK9...

Except Jade.

 

[extralite]

No. I'm referring to this from the OP:

Hilarious. So you are ignoring the other graph indicating girls want female protags. And don't even notice it or are able to admit it.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

In answer to the italicized, Theo does think exactly that (when it comes to how women dress, or should dress). See my previous italics:





Yes, you are reading it wrong. I never spoke about design decisions, nor did I say anything is "just sex". Nor did I pick his quote apart, it is quoted completely without interruption.

I was replying to posters in this thread who were correctly pointing out that he shouldn't even be playing that game. And used sarcasm to get at the presenter who didn't have any issues with Theo playing this game but seizing the chance to talk about how sex is used in games.

Because sex is bad, but violence isn't. Apparently.

Spoiler

I don't play MK. I don't like the gore.

But, okay. Here's the thing. Good or bad, people come to Mortal Kombat for its violence. It is a fighting game.

Spoiler

They fight.

If it was, I don't know, The Sex Simulator 2K15 that would be a game and genre in which not expecting sex would be strange.

Your quote of Theo, again, in my opinion does not prove your point. Because the quote itself...

Theo: "This game, it's called Mortal Kombat. I really like it, but I notice a lot of the female characters are wearing very scantily clad clothing which doesn't make any sense because if you're playing a videogame like that, you expect everybody to be armored because it's a fighting game!

Even IF the quote was more along the lines of "I don't understand, in real life they wouldn't be dressing that way, it should be more realistic." that would still be a quote discussing what they want in a video game, not mistaking the video game for a real life situation.

Hilarious. So you are ignoring the other graph indicating girls want female protags. And don't even notice it or are able to admit it.

Yeah that just comes across as "and that's why we should stop talking about gender in video games" to me lol.

 

[Palculator]

Hilarious. So you are ignoring the other graph indicating girls want female protags. And don't even notice it or are able to admit it.

What the hell is going on.

I just like that when it comes to the decision of playing (and by extension buying) a game the actual gender of the protag doesn't seem to matter that much. Which is a good thing because the tired excuse of having male protagonists because they sell better can no longer be justified. Geez.

 

[The Adder]

Except Jade.

You are correct, but this is also covered in the context of the conversation.

Besides her I can think of Li Mei MK Deception Jade as being a character with rather sparse attire. Otherwise female character costumes made sense as something to wear in battle, or at leadst as something the character would wear. And absolutely no one (except maybe Sindel, who could fly) wore heels.

Although I was wrong about when someone, besides Sindel, got the first set of heels.

 

[Lime]

League of Legends player base is over 90% male and DOTA 2 is even more extreme, so that experience is probably not unusual.
But this study is about the upcoming generation so there might be change in the future

Have you seen the chat logs and communities for these games? They're straight out of "shit your racist sexist grandpa from 19th century says". Of course some people will get deterred from playing these games when everyone is looking to badmouth the other (read: say bigoted bullshit)

 

[Lime]

I worry about what video games are doing to the logic centers in our brains.

Look no further than Gamergate (

Spoiler

joking, but only kinda)

 

[The Technomancer]

The "care/don't care/want" stats about female or male characters are interesting but tricky. What I think they basically boil down to is that more boys don't care about playing as girls than most companies think (because they think basically all of them do) whereas more girls do play more "hardcore" games and care about playing as girls than most companies think (because they think basically none of them do)

Net result: yeah, more good female characters could help the popularity of various games in not insignificant ways.

 

[extralite]

But, okay. Here's the thing. Good or bad, people come to Mortal Kombat for its violence. It is a fighting game.

Spoiler

They fight.

If it was, I don't know, The Sex Simulator 2K15 that would be a game and genre in which not expecting sex would be strange.

Your quote of Theo, again, in my opinion does not prove your point. Because the quote itself...



Even IF the quote was more along the lines of "I don't understand, in real life they wouldn't be dressing that way, it should be more realistic." that would still be a quote discussing what they want in a video game, not mistaking the video game for a real life situation.

My points were that he is mixing up fantasy and reality, and that he is slut shaming. I showed both. You need to work on your reading comprehension, really. Instead of distracting from the points you supposedly want to argue with.

 

[Natureboy99]

None of that OP is surprising. To be a good game developer you pretty much have to devote your life to it, or at least many do. Watching interviews of prominent devs often makes me think they never developed emotionally past 14 years old.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Also, slut shaming:

LOL no.

Not even close.

Dignity. You have your slut shaming right there.

Are you for real?

There is nothing undignified about a woman dressing skimpily... at the beach, in her home, in the bedroom, at a party, and so on.

But there is definitely something undignified about going into combat while dressed in nothing but a bra*, thong and high heels. And that's why this boy is saying these scantily clad women warriors have no dignity by being designed liked that. Because it's true.

* Worst part is that they're rarely bras at all, most of the time, whatever's barely wrapping up those breasts would offer no support to begin with. It's just there to barely cover the nipples while showing as much boobage as possible.

He explicitly says he is disrespecting women based on lack of dignity. That is the very definition of slut shaming.

You have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about. Stop it.

My points were that he is mixing up fantasy and reality, and that he is slut shaming. I showed both. You need to work on your reading comprehension, really. Instead of distracting from the points you supposedly want to argue with.

But QueenOfThorns just debunked "your point". And no, you showed absolutely nothing of the sort. The only thing you showed is that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[extralite]

What the hell is going on.

I just like that when it comes to the decision of playing (and by extension buying) a game the actual gender of the protag doesn't seem to matter that much. Which is a good thing because the tired excuse of having male protagonists because they sell better can no longer be justified. Geez.

But it does. And you're still actively ignoring that although it was pointed out to you repeatedly.

 

[SSReborn]

You are correct, but this is also covered in the context of the conversation.



Although I was wrong about when someone, besides Sindel, got the first set of heels.

Ahh yeah missed that part.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

My points were that he is mixing up fantasy and reality, and that he is slut shaming. I showed both. You need to work on your reading comprehension, really. Instead of distracting from the points you supposedly want to argue with.

You didn't show both. I don't understand how that statement could be read as mixing up fantasy and reality. How. People use that phrasing talking about video games all the time, it doesn't mean that they're confusing fantasy and reality. People use that kind of language all the time when they don't like the outfits women wear in comics or video games.

 

[The Technomancer]

But it does. And you're still actively ignoring that although it was pointed out to you repeatedly.

Well...sort of. The results basically come down to about half of people caring and half of people being ambivalent, which wouldn't be groundbreaking if it wasn't specifically for the industry's hangups.

 

[erragal]

You're attempting to reframe their argument as if they are claiming sex is bad. The discussion isn't about mature portrayals of sexuality in games (of which there are none, and surely this is a discussion that needs to be had)

The conversation you're trying to derail is that overt sexualization of women outside the scope of the situation is a society wide problem in all forms of media. This portrayal creates long lasting body image and irrational expectations on young women that persists long into adulthood. It certainly contributes to men developing unrealistic expectations of women as well.

Pushing for gaming content to tone down exaggerated portrayals of women is important for the maturation of the medium.

And if we're being honest all these type of representations amount to are base instinct psychological manipulation. (Marketing in general is a seedy underbelly of our ' civilization ' when analyzed honestly)

It is fair to say as a counter argument that male protagonists should be more balanced and less ' traditionally macho ' as well. Frankly gaming has a legacy as a sexist medium and the gamer gate vitriol showed that quite publicly.

Distracting from the importance of this issue by trying to confuse the topic with issues of violence is not arguing in good faith. Create a new topic and let's discuss that issue: I'm in agreement that the best games should be showing impactful responses to violent actions and society has issues with violence. But just because you're more concerned with one issue than another personally does not mean you should make an effort to craft disingenuous arguments to distract from the other issue.

Act not with ideology and think of more than how ideas impact your own self.

 

[extralite]

Well...sort of. The results basically come down to about half of people caring and half of people being ambivalent, which wouldn't be groundbreaking if it wasn't specifically for the industry's hangups.

Originally he said it's of no concern. So he outright ignored the female voice. Now he says it doesn't matter that much. Belittling the female opinion.

 

[The Technomancer]

Originally he said it's of no concern. So he outright ignored the female voice. Now he says it doesn't matter that much. Belittling the female opinion.

This seems like a bit of a hostile reaction though...

 

[Messofanego]

The stats seem close to movies nowadays. Blockbusters (usually targeted to males) like Fast and Furious 7 (made $143.6 million in USA alone so far) have even split on the gender demographic (males made 51%). Plenty of other action blockbusters have a lot of women in the audience ratio. Majority of the audience specifically for Furious 7 (75%) was non-Caucasian, which is partly attributed to the diverse cast. Hispanic viewers at 37%, Caucasians at 25%, African Americans at 24%, and Asian viewers at 10%. Wouldn't be surprised if the Fast and Furious movies will become a role model for future casting decisions to go more diverse to net a bigger crowd (screw you Ridley Scott ), much like it can work for videogames.

 

[Palculator]

Originally he said it's of no concern. So he outright ignored the female voice. Now he says it doesn't matter that much. Belittling the female opinion.

Stop it. I might've left too much room for interpretation, but you're just overreacting now.

This seems like a bit of a hostile reaction though...

Yeah, thanks. But considering the rest of the their contributions to the thread it's not that surprising.

 

[extralite]

This seems like a bit of a hostile reaction though...

So you find fault in what I'm doing (seeming some way) but not in what he is doing (ignoring, denying)?

 

[The Technomancer]

So you find fault in what I'm doing (seeming some way) but not in what he is doing (ignoring, denying)?

He didn't deny anything, he pointed to the chart he was drawing his conclusion from, and you jumped straight to a mocking tone instead of trying to make an argument without hostility. He's not wrong: that chart does indicate that the gender of the protagonist isn't a particular concern. That's not contradictory with girls wanting to see more female characters in games.

 

[Mesoian]

Why make it free DLC, though? Just having the costume including others already gives you the option.

Well, opposed to not having it I mean. How it's offered is irrelevant as long as people aren't forced.

And to be fair, MK10 seems to do a good job of that.

Like I said, the alts are basically on par with the costumes from MK9 with the exception of Mileena's tower unlock costume. Cassie and Jacqui have the most conservative costume designs. The female ninja's are basically in the same ballpark as they've always been.

Well I mean, I'm watching a live stream of MK10 right now, Kitana is in an outfit which I can only describe as Catwoman crossed with Maleficient, with a boob window. It's fully armored. It's not a fucking thong. Good. More like this.