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Halo Lore Thread
- Thread starter Korten
- Start date
The poster was asking about the order of the games and books though...
Just in general, though. I see this a lot, and not just in this thread.
And I'm not saying it to be a party crasher or anything like that, I'm glad more people are becoming interested, but I know how intimidating it can be sometimes to jump into a new fiction so I just wanted to let people know it's cool to take time with it. Especially since Halo 5 just got released with hype and excitement pretty high right now.
Captain Zyrain
Member
You can never be too intimidated to read The Fall of Reach!!
Double Donut
Member
How good is Broken Circle? Debating which to read next after I finish Kilo-Five. Either Broken Circle or the Forerunner saga.
Oh, I see what you meant now.
Gaaaaaaah. I should give it a re-read one of these days. I almost went ahead and re-bought the 343-fied version, but stopped myself.
Forerunner Trilogy.
Good luck getting through that second book, Primordium, though.
It's all good. <3
Monocle
Member
Yep, definitely.
wesleyshark
Banned
Had a thought (halo 5 spoilers):
Disjointed thought ramble. Pardon the dust and feel free to tear it down haha.
I noticed an interesting parallel...
The Librarian locked Didact in his Cryptum to contemplate his actions and his antagonism to her plans to save humanity.
Cortana attempted to lock Chief in a Cryptum to contemplate his actions and his desire to protect humanity, despite their infallible and imperfect nature.
What long running theory has been presented before?
Cortana, clone of Halsey, may be affected somehow by the geas of the Librarian or harbors it outright, in addition to signs of logic plague that she was suffering from during her time with the Gravemind.
Chief most likely harbors the geas of the IsoDidact.
The Librarian wanted to save humanity, as she knew they were the true heirs of the Mantle. Cortana wanted to subdue humanity, and attain the Mantle for herself. The UrDidact wanted to subdue humanity and hold onto the Mantle for himself and all Forerunners. Chief wanted to stop Cortana and save humanity and give them a chance to figure it out naturally.
Kind of a reverse of what has happened before.
The big tick here being that Cortana was already going ramapant, and possibly also imbued with logic plague, as she reached transcendence. Perhaps the Domain cured of her rampancy, but it did not cure her of the rest.
Humanity's "testing" that the Primordial hints at may have been a darker scheme than realized.
I was honestly surprised at how blatant the deeper parts of the lore were mentioned in Halo 5, and it makes the Forerunner Trilogy all the more important to what's going to happen in subsequent games, I think.
The Librarian locked Didact in his Cryptum to contemplate his actions and his antagonism to her plans to save humanity.
Cortana attempted to lock Chief in a Cryptum to contemplate his actions and his desire to protect humanity, despite their infallible and imperfect nature.
What long running theory has been presented before?
Cortana, clone of Halsey, may be affected somehow by the geas of the Librarian or harbors it outright, in addition to signs of logic plague that she was suffering from during her time with the Gravemind.
Chief most likely harbors the geas of the IsoDidact.
The Librarian wanted to save humanity, as she knew they were the true heirs of the Mantle. Cortana wanted to subdue humanity, and attain the Mantle for herself. The UrDidact wanted to subdue humanity and hold onto the Mantle for himself and all Forerunners. Chief wanted to stop Cortana and save humanity and give them a chance to figure it out naturally.
Kind of a reverse of what has happened before.
The big tick here being that Cortana was already going ramapant, and possibly also imbued with logic plague, as she reached transcendence. Perhaps the Domain cured of her rampancy, but it did not cure her of the rest.
Humanity's "testing" that the Primordial hints at may have been a darker scheme than realized.
I was honestly surprised at how blatant the deeper parts of the lore were mentioned in Halo 5, and it makes the Forerunner Trilogy all the more important to what's going to happen in subsequent games, I think.
Disjointed thought ramble. Pardon the dust and feel free to tear it down haha.
LordOfChaos
Member
It's not bad, but the Forerunner Trilogy is the real Magnum opus that will propel you into the same conspiracy theories the rest of us partake in
It's also really the best intro to 4&5
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Not wanting to tear it down, but this reads like the theorising of one of those lore fans who's locked onto some unconfirmed theories and then sees them everywhere.
- The only heavy lore stuff in 5 was the Mantle and the Domain, no? Both of which were in 4. There were no geas or logic plague mentions.
- Pretty sure we're still yet to see any evidence of the whole Halsey=Librarian and MC=Didact geas stuff. I haven't read the whole Forerunner trilogy but I'm pretty sure there were no cross-species personality imprints? Guilty Spark had the Admiral inside him, Bornstellar became a Didact, and never the twain shall meet? I think these characters are meant to parallel/echo each other, not be actual genetic copies.
- Going by Frank's earlier post about people selling Cortana short, and the focus in the game on her being derived from Halsey, who has done terrible things "for the greater good", I don't think we need to reach to rampancy and logic plagues to explain her actions. Not ruling anything out, but after the Warden's talk about removing herself from human emotions I think the opposite is the problem; fixing herself using the Domain has changed her perspective into that of an even more pure intellect, her undiluted utilitarianism contrasting with Halsey's late-game conversion to more conventional human morality. Which then becomes interesting when Cortana starts going on about how Halsey is a monster.
- But yeah the locking in the Cryptum was a pretty clear role reversal call-back. I also noticed a lot of similarities between Cortana's actions in this game and Halsey's throughout the series - earlier post.
- Pretty sure we're still yet to see any evidence of the whole Halsey=Librarian and MC=Didact geas stuff. I haven't read the whole Forerunner trilogy but I'm pretty sure there were no cross-species personality imprints? Guilty Spark had the Admiral inside him, Bornstellar became a Didact, and never the twain shall meet? I think these characters are meant to parallel/echo each other, not be actual genetic copies.
- Going by Frank's earlier post about people selling Cortana short, and the focus in the game on her being derived from Halsey, who has done terrible things "for the greater good", I don't think we need to reach to rampancy and logic plagues to explain her actions. Not ruling anything out, but after the Warden's talk about removing herself from human emotions I think the opposite is the problem; fixing herself using the Domain has changed her perspective into that of an even more pure intellect, her undiluted utilitarianism contrasting with Halsey's late-game conversion to more conventional human morality. Which then becomes interesting when Cortana starts going on about how Halsey is a monster.
- But yeah the locking in the Cryptum was a pretty clear role reversal call-back. I also noticed a lot of similarities between Cortana's actions in this game and Halsey's throughout the series - earlier post.
Captain Zyrain
Member
I love that.
But yeah, fans can whip themselves up into a nicely frothy paranoid lather about stuff.
Someone on Reddit brought up the First Strike addendum with Petra and stuff from Origins as tying into Halo 5 and how Cortana knew about the Guardians. Is interesting, although I dunno how deep 343 was trying to throw seeds. If anything, you could say Origins is "let's be incredibly vague and have weird visuals, and if there's something in here we wanna use later we can."
wesleyshark
Banned
Have you even met Wesley?!! Haha
Hahaha it's been a while since I dumped a crazy tangent in here. Felt like a good time to do so.
spootime
Member
There seem to be very few (if any) hints or "seeds" in any of the previous EU or halo 4 for the events that occur in Halo 5. Makes me think that this was something they conceived after halo 4 and the books released.
Just finished the game..mix feeling to be honest.
Where do you guys think we go from here?
And why was Locke presented at all? The whole game could have been the Chief actually. It would have been better game.
Visiting worlds and haunting and what not.
Seems like 343 are trying way too hard to inprint their name in any way possible. We give you Agent Locke.
Halo has its solid foundation. MC a solid character who doesn't need a side kick or a VS dude.
All you could have done is revolutionized the franshise on other way. Like big scale or something . Halo has many great places to visit. Plants. Locate Blue team. Visit arbiter home world. Not rush through it. You just burn all the great Cards.
Where do you guys think we go from here?
And why was Locke presented at all? The whole game could have been the Chief actually. It would have been better game.
Visiting worlds and haunting and what not.
Seems like 343 are trying way too hard to inprint their name in any way possible. We give you Agent Locke.
Halo has its solid foundation. MC a solid character who doesn't need a side kick or a VS dude.
All you could have done is revolutionized the franshise on other way. Like big scale or something . Halo has many great places to visit. Plants. Locate Blue team. Visit arbiter home world. Not rush through it. You just burn all the great Cards.
thetruth1983
Banned
Thanks for making this thread. I made love to my halo disk today and I'm not ashamed.
Like playing Chief's perspective for the whole time you were playing Locke's!
Yeah, something like that, or even other side stories.
So, flying a pelican towards Argent Moon, flying to Meridian, having a little chat with Governor Sloan and walking through his outpost without any opposition, then floating in stasis inside a ball? I'm not sure if the world is ready for a Halo travelogue and a forced nap simulator.
Would be more interesting than 10 hours with Team Osiris.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
You forgot being led around in circles by Cortana for a few hours.
wesleyshark
Banned
I thought Team Osiris is a great addition to the main cast.
Especially Vale
I was perfectly happy with the campaign split, myself.
As for people complaining about the lack of Chiefthey're not going to keep having Steve Downes voicing Chief into his nineties. At some point new characters, new stories, and new perspectives have to take over. Even with Chief's more vocal presentation as of late, there's only so much they can do with him.
wesleyshark
Banned
If Osiris is the future of Halo (Steve Downes is going to retire eventually) then that's fine by me.
They should promote Vale to be the main Spartan character at some point
and make the full transition to Metroid complete lol
A criticism I think is perfectly fair for the game is that Locke's attitudes towards the Chief are never fully understood. A lot of people were complaining "why's he fine with helping Chief now?" as if there was supposed to be some change in his attitude, which isn't in the game.
Really, if you just extended every cutscene another 15 seconds you could have addressed a lot of complaints, I think. I felt like we were missing a line or two of dialogue in each one. The quick fade-downs certainly didn't help with that impression.
It's bizarre how many of them end with someone staring at the camera in complete silence, despite being in the middle of a heated argument or attempting to start a quip-off.
The only one that really gets me is the one with Roland (because seriously, no one said anything worth hearing after that outburst?), but in general if you compare the cutscenes to previous ones, it's like many of them are missing a final wide shot or something. It's one of those little things that takes me out of the campaign slightly, just like Halo 4's lack of spatial continuity between cutscenes and missions.
Also, a minor quibble but considering the dip to blacks are only like 1-3 seconds I would have rather they just not shown the white "Loading" text in the corner. It makes it feel a lot more bumpy and jarring than it really is.
LordOfChaos
Member
That one could have easily addressed some of the Rolland motivation questions posed here
"Why is she the bad guy all of a sudden? Because she didn't' die?"
"She dun destroyed all this here shit"
"Oh. I hate her."
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I loved the story in 5. It was truly fantastic imo. It takes the universe in some pretty exciting places, and I loved the restraint showcased with regards to stopping things when they did. They could have easily gone further and ended up ruining an otherwise incredible conclusion to this game, potentially also ruining all the potential that was created from this game's story.
Locke's character was a fantastic addition to the series and to the overall lore. He was more than just some sidekick or rival to the Chief. By having a character like Locke and team Osiris in this game, it allowed 343i to present to us many sides of the conflict while treading very carefully with regards to Master Chief, Blue Team and Cortana's role in the overall story. By making a conscious decision not to overdo the Chief and Blue Team's - and even Cortana's - presence in this game, they were able to weave a far more compelling self contained story and an even stronger foundation to build from.
Locke's character was a fantastic addition to the series and to the overall lore. He was more than just some sidekick or rival to the Chief. By having a character like Locke and team Osiris in this game, it allowed 343i to present to us many sides of the conflict while treading very carefully with regards to Master Chief, Blue Team and Cortana's role in the overall story. By making a conscious decision not to overdo the Chief and Blue Team's - and even Cortana's - presence in this game, they were able to weave a far more compelling self contained story and an even stronger foundation to build from.
Goldfishking
Member
He already retired from radio last year, they even mentioned on halo 5 live he retired fully as well.
Probably the main reason there wasn't much MC (in comparison to locke) halo 5.
He retired from radio this year, which is what they were referring to on the stream. He's still gonna play MC.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
There was more than enough information for why helping Chief made sense. It was obvious from the onset that as much as Locke was trying to treat the Chief like just another target, it was blatantly obvious even to Locke that he very clearly wasn't. He may have come off a bit heavy handed in his first encounter with the Chief, but as more information began to develop, it started to become clear that the Chief may not in fact be the real problem at all, hence it made more sense for Osiris to assist rather than being a constant nuisance. I love that even though they were hunting the Chief and Blue Team they never forgot which side they were all on. It was especially evident as most of Osiris pretty much stood down while Blue Team and Chief were confronted. Locke and the rest of Osiris even knew instinctively not to bother with firing their weapons at Chief or Blue Team.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Lol
I probably would have joined
her. I mean, she is blue.
But
she somehow made world peace sound terrifying.
wesleyshark
Banned
FTFY
World peace when actually approached with concrete solutions always sounds terrifying. I mean it's like Tony Stark syndrome in Avengers, "sounds like a pretty cold world."
I wasn't getting at the story itself, but moreso the way it has been told since 343i took over.
There's definitely more concrete solutions than
Also, why are we spoiler tagging stuff?
There's definitely more concrete solutions than
I'm going to put 3 a lot of giant airships robots that kill people who don't agree with my agenda.
Also, why are we spoiler tagging stuff?
Fade in. Fade out.
Black Mantis
Member
I think it's going in the right direction, Cortana's actions are the revolution imo. As Frankie O'Connor stated, it's wrong to call Cortana flat-out evil/bad, even though her plans will have devastating consequences. I just think it's exciting to see what an AI, who thinks in chunks of 10,000 years, has planned for the universe.
As for Locke, I think it was a solid debut, can't deny that he pulled off some pretty badass moves in the game and he makes a solid Spartan. Time will tell, but having both Blue Team and Osiris come together doesn't bode well for a few of them, I expect the next game will see some of them fall, ala Reach.
There should be a lot of death. Cortana got very defensive when Chief brought up the number of people she killed waking the Guardians, and she had some pretty dire warnings for anyone who opposed her. She's gone from sobbing over the people composed on Ivanoff Station to killing millions like they're flies in order to achieve her "perfect" world where people behave under penalty of death. The future for organics looks pretty grim.
Also, if I was on Infinity, I'd be super nice to Roland.