Baconsammy
Banned
When you weren't looking, the goal posts got moved. Downloadable games dont count.
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I think Microsoft might surprise a bunch of people
- Thread starter DocSeuss
- Start date
When you weren't looking, the goal posts got moved. Downloadable games dont count.
That's always been my argument, and this is by far not the first thread I've said this in. A platform's worth to gamers is what it has to offer that no one else offers, since most of us have at least 1 other platform.
TheGreyHulk
Member
yeah, MS really did pioneer all of the stuff we demand our OS to do on consoles. they're OS experience really did bring consoles into the online world. the only thing us gamers are worried about is them focusing on the casuals and kinect crowd and not paying homage to the core audience. i see them being very arrogant with the 360 success the same way sony was arrogant with their ps2 success and that could bite them in the ass if they assume everyone with a 360 will fall in line to buy the 720
So you admit that you changed your argument mid way through to something I wouldn't have argued against (yes, MS has the least quality exclusives of the three platforms we are talking about) in an effort to avoid taking your hyperbole back.
Killing_Joke
Member
MS won with the online battle. Sony did there best to match but unfortunately they couldn't keep up. Now Sony lit a fire up their asses. The PS4 online features went beyond my expectations. Streaming or playing on someone else system from my house is fucking crazy. And PS Cloud looks extremely promising.
But i know MS will go punch for punch when it comes down to hardware and Online. My main beef is games. Their first party is the weakest of the bunch. They killed Rare, Bungie left with smiles on their faces, and almost every corporate dude who lead the successful 360 launch are gone.
What MS did do right is secure a tight relationship with every third party. Something Nintendo for some reason can't do even when selling 100 million Wii's. MS has no shame showing off their deep pockets. Snagging titles like Final Fantasy, paying 50 million for an timed exclusive GTA DLC, etc. Will they continue again this gen? Most likely. Even with a paywall to play online COD sells double on the 360 compared to the PS3. They really marketed XBL to be THE place to play online games.
Now it's clear as day Sony wants to win over that hardcore online crowd. XBL is MS's bread and butter, they're going to look like fools if they don't deliver. Can't wait for E3.
But i know MS will go punch for punch when it comes down to hardware and Online. My main beef is games. Their first party is the weakest of the bunch. They killed Rare, Bungie left with smiles on their faces, and almost every corporate dude who lead the successful 360 launch are gone.
What MS did do right is secure a tight relationship with every third party. Something Nintendo for some reason can't do even when selling 100 million Wii's. MS has no shame showing off their deep pockets. Snagging titles like Final Fantasy, paying 50 million for an timed exclusive GTA DLC, etc. Will they continue again this gen? Most likely. Even with a paywall to play online COD sells double on the 360 compared to the PS3. They really marketed XBL to be THE place to play online games.
Now it's clear as day Sony wants to win over that hardcore online crowd. XBL is MS's bread and butter, they're going to look like fools if they don't deliver. Can't wait for E3.
DocSeuss said:
Sorry Doc, I didn't see your specific post about Uncharted, I'll search for it. But I'll say I can't really see that much difference between Uncharted and Gears of War AI for example having played all 6 games on both series.
When I said hate it was a figure of speech, I meant to say I strongly dislike Halo overall. Hate is too strong of a word and I should not have used it. Next time I will express my point of view better. Again apologies!
This is pretty much the same I feel about Halo, specially the narrative. It never worked for me.
Anyway, I look forward to your future thread about why you dislike Sony first party games, I'm sure it will be pretty popular. I just hope you don't concentrate too much on the big recent AAA games and forget about the older games or smaller ones. That would impair the discussion, Sony has a long history of fostering great games on consoles and PCs IMO.
Forgive me for the derail.
I can't see how anyone would argue against most of your points as far as consoles go. But generalizing critics as "people that hate MS" doesn't help the discussion at all.
Don't forget that before pioneering a lot of these features MS made damn sure to copy all the good stuff Nintendo and Sony brought to the table. MS would never had gotten into videogames if they were not worried about Sony dominating the living room.
Warm Machine
Member
Where is this Microsoft doesn't care about gamers thing coming from? What has MS done recently that tells you that they don't care about their core audience? To me it looks like business as usual.
Where is this it's all going to be Kinect coming from? Why does Kinect 2 need all the power of the console when it isn't even being used in a particular game? The invented FUD against MS is ridiculous. It is akin to suggesting Sony is all about the Move.
If Sony can surprise with 8gb of mem against all reports what does that tell you about the reports?
Rare killed Rare. They were hardly an organized game development company. The avatars are the most succesful thing they ever did and rake in cash. 100% of Xbox owners have an Avatar. Compare that to Playstation Home avatars as an example.
Where is this it's all going to be Kinect coming from? Why does Kinect 2 need all the power of the console when it isn't even being used in a particular game? The invented FUD against MS is ridiculous. It is akin to suggesting Sony is all about the Move.
If Sony can surprise with 8gb of mem against all reports what does that tell you about the reports?
Rare killed Rare. They were hardly an organized game development company. The avatars are the most succesful thing they ever did and rake in cash. 100% of Xbox owners have an Avatar. Compare that to Playstation Home avatars as an example.
Actually when it comes to the PS4 the reports they have been pretty accurate over the last month or two.
Most of then got the specs right, and the Edge one even mentioned the push to get 8GB RAM when everyone thought it was crazy.
After Edge published those PS4 leaks they reported some undesirable Durango features like always online, no used games etc.
I hope they are false, but right now the biggest possibility is that they aren't.
Time will tell, MS still have some time.
No I did not. That argument means the same as abandoning.
They may as well not bother going to the trouble of announcing their console
False. The power difference won't be that huge (if we go by rumoured specs) to warrant an immediate victory, and Microsoft could enagage in an agressive price approach. But more importantly, Microsoft will undoubtedly lead te dance in terms of integrated services once again, flexing its muscle in the domain of online play. The games is a moot point, since both consoles will have them in spades.
Call me crazy, but I do believe in Kinect's potential...
Ive always been a Microsoft fan I recently purchased my first Sony product last year at the age of 33 I can say I was a die hard Microsoft fan but today I no longer feel that way. I fully expect Microsoft to money hat everything and get mostly multiplats with exclusive dlc. I do think it will be much less than the PS4 though. With that said I am a sucker for new tech so I'm all in but I think Sony will take them in the gaming department next gen. Didnt Microsoft lose there best dev? Blazinski? Gears and Halo I think did a lot of work for them.
Less does not equal nothing.
Less exclusives does not mean none.
Don't know why I'm bothering, though. You don't strike me as the sort to ever concede a point.
BTW It's only the last few years where MS hasn't seemed to try that hard compared to Sony. You would surely admit that up until that point it was equally as easy to be satisfied with gaming on the 360, right?
Another thing, how is the PC a good yardstick for this argument? It is not a platform controlled by a platform holder like the PS3, 360 and Wii.
Which makes me wonder why you don't mention the Wii.
Long story short you seem to hate MS and bend your arguments to detract from the 360 rather than following some logic and applying it to all systems equally.
Speaking of MS....
It got me thinking, does anyone believe that we will get video game visuals like this http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/avatar_special_edition-wide.jpg in our lifetimes?
It got me thinking, does anyone believe that we will get video game visuals like this http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/avatar_special_edition-wide.jpg in our lifetimes?
A Twisty Fluken
Member
A lot of talent left during all of those studio closures and reorientation. MS deciding to refocus on a certain type of gaming is only half the puzzle, when the people that made Ensemble Ensemble didn't just wait around jobless, they found other things to do, and so on.
So IF they did like you suggest, they also have to find people to actually make the magic happen, and that doesn't happen automatically. Otherwise, you'll just end up with mediocrity focused towards the core. Corporate direction is really just one ingredient.
So IF they did like you suggest, they also have to find people to actually make the magic happen, and that doesn't happen automatically. Otherwise, you'll just end up with mediocrity focused towards the core. Corporate direction is really just one ingredient.
Net_Wrecker
Member
One can only hope MS gets back to what made them interesting in 2005-2007, but I'm having a hell of a time seeing it anymore. I don't care about Halo, Forza, OS features, Kinect, media hub apps, etc. etc. All I care about for MS's next game console are the games. Remedy is the one "for sure" dev under their umbrella that I know will make something that appeals to me. Other than that though, I feel both Sony and Nintendo have them beat on exclusives. Unless they pay 3rd party devs for some killer exclusives (which I don't see happening anymore), or they've been cooking up some crazy 1st/2nd party stuff, I have no interest in the console at this point. They won't even have the 3rd party performance edge this time.
This all seems crazy as it was MS's exclusives that pushed me into the gen.
This all seems crazy as it was MS's exclusives that pushed me into the gen.
UberTag
Member
Uh oh... Net_Wrecker's getting jaded. John Cena confirmed to appear at the E3 Durango reveal.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I'm not jaded. Sony and Nintendo's big exclusives still manage to excite me as does anything Platinum Games, or Rockstar, or Double Fine, or Kojima, or etc. Microsoft's just fallen off a cliff, IMO, in terms of big retail exclusives. Halo is tired, I've never been a racing sim guy, Gears is tired.....what else is there? Rare hasn't made a truly great console game in like a decade, Lionhead has underdelivered every single time, the rumored stuff from new studious is yet to be proven, etc. etc. I don't think they'll be able to snag console exclusives like Bioshock, Mass Effect, or Gears again either.
It's literally only Remedy I look forward to over there now. I'd love to be surprised with a wave of great looking titles, but I just don't see it. Yet anyway.
EDIT: Maybe Ruffian can redeem themselves after Crackdown 2 unless they've be relegated to Kinect duties.
I feel like after the Wii it should be plainly obvious that hardware alone doesn't really push many millions of units.
The Crimson Kid
what are you waiting for
I gotta give props to the OP for noting the worldwide recession as a potential cause for how the past few years MS has operated on the Xbox. While I disagree with the assertion made relating to the recession (MS could've weathered that storm without making the massive cuts in dev teams that they did), most people underestimate or flat-out ignore the myriad number of effects that the recession has had on the gaming industry.
The only reasonable thing that I would hope to be surprised by is the OS-level and online features that Microsoft can offer next-gen. They excelled at the launch of the 360 on this front and easily justified the cost of Xbox Live. If they want to continue justifying this cost, they have to offer several new services and advancements that no one else can. They have been largely treading water on this front, aside from Kinect stuff that has largely flopped, so I can only hope that they have been pouring a lot of research and innovation into features for the next Xbox.
Recently it seems as if Microsoft has become complacent and even arrogant in its success. Between putting more (and more invasive) ads on the dashboard to raising the cost of Xbox Live and keeping apps behind a paywall that no one else requires to offer the exact same services, it seems to me that they are operating under the assumption that the current (extremely profitable) status quo is sustainable for them, even as the online landscape has seen drastic changes in the past few years, many of which have chipped away at the current value of Xbox Live. And, knowing how big, bloated, and bureaucratic Microsoft is, if they haven't realized the error in my supposed perception of their assumption by now, it will take them too long to change course once they set themselves on it for another generation of consoles.
I'm already much more on guard regarding the first-party games that MS reveals because their current stable of exclusive studios are far less proven than Sony's are. Both Microsoft and Sony have made some deep cuts in their first-party rosters in the past few years, with Microsoft's cuts happening a couple years ago and Sony's more in the past year. But while Sony still left them selves with a healthy and large lineup after their occasionally awful cuts (RIP Sony Liverpool!), Microsoft cut far too deep and left themselves with a skeleton crew of studios unable to do more than Forza and a few Kinect games, much less what would be needed up front for a new console. Let alone that they won't get exclusives from Bungie and probably Epic this time around either.
They've realized their mistake and have created plenty of new studios recently, many of which assuredly have talented people at them (plenty of talent has gone jobless due to the recession), but now Microsoft is in a position where most of their first-party studios they are depending on to support the next Xbox with exclusives have never shipped a game. It's going to be really tough for me to get hyped by some trailer or gameplay demo for an ambitious new game if the studio responsible has never shipped a game before. It isn't like it is impossible for a new studio to deliver the goods in this situation, because Forza Horizon is an awesome game and it came from a new studio under Microsoft's wing, but this seems like the exception rather than the rule.
At least with Sony's studios, they all have proven track records. I already know that Sucker Punch can deliver great open-world games with unique protagonists. I already know that Naughty Dog can deliver amazing experiences when they have the time to do so (and when they don't, we get Uncharted 3...). I already know that Guerrilla Games can make shooters with extremely solid gunplay and innovative multiplayer while delivering a visual feast, even if all of their games have had various issues.
There is something to be said for reputation. While not all of Sony's first party studios have sterling reputations, at least they have them.
The only reasonable thing that I would hope to be surprised by is the OS-level and online features that Microsoft can offer next-gen. They excelled at the launch of the 360 on this front and easily justified the cost of Xbox Live. If they want to continue justifying this cost, they have to offer several new services and advancements that no one else can. They have been largely treading water on this front, aside from Kinect stuff that has largely flopped, so I can only hope that they have been pouring a lot of research and innovation into features for the next Xbox.
Recently it seems as if Microsoft has become complacent and even arrogant in its success. Between putting more (and more invasive) ads on the dashboard to raising the cost of Xbox Live and keeping apps behind a paywall that no one else requires to offer the exact same services, it seems to me that they are operating under the assumption that the current (extremely profitable) status quo is sustainable for them, even as the online landscape has seen drastic changes in the past few years, many of which have chipped away at the current value of Xbox Live. And, knowing how big, bloated, and bureaucratic Microsoft is, if they haven't realized the error in my supposed perception of their assumption by now, it will take them too long to change course once they set themselves on it for another generation of consoles.
I'm already much more on guard regarding the first-party games that MS reveals because their current stable of exclusive studios are far less proven than Sony's are. Both Microsoft and Sony have made some deep cuts in their first-party rosters in the past few years, with Microsoft's cuts happening a couple years ago and Sony's more in the past year. But while Sony still left them selves with a healthy and large lineup after their occasionally awful cuts (RIP Sony Liverpool!), Microsoft cut far too deep and left themselves with a skeleton crew of studios unable to do more than Forza and a few Kinect games, much less what would be needed up front for a new console. Let alone that they won't get exclusives from Bungie and probably Epic this time around either.
They've realized their mistake and have created plenty of new studios recently, many of which assuredly have talented people at them (plenty of talent has gone jobless due to the recession), but now Microsoft is in a position where most of their first-party studios they are depending on to support the next Xbox with exclusives have never shipped a game. It's going to be really tough for me to get hyped by some trailer or gameplay demo for an ambitious new game if the studio responsible has never shipped a game before. It isn't like it is impossible for a new studio to deliver the goods in this situation, because Forza Horizon is an awesome game and it came from a new studio under Microsoft's wing, but this seems like the exception rather than the rule.
At least with Sony's studios, they all have proven track records. I already know that Sucker Punch can deliver great open-world games with unique protagonists. I already know that Naughty Dog can deliver amazing experiences when they have the time to do so (and when they don't, we get Uncharted 3...). I already know that Guerrilla Games can make shooters with extremely solid gunplay and innovative multiplayer while delivering a visual feast, even if all of their games have had various issues.
There is something to be said for reputation. While not all of Sony's first party studios have sterling reputations, at least they have them.
Well put. They are definitely going to need to rethink their strategy with regards to XBL gold and put in a great effort to bringing some games people want for the first couple of years at least. I'd like to see them invest in studios, something that will pay off for the whole life of their new machine rather than just timed exclusives and the like.
BuggyDClown
Member
I hope so. As an owner of all 3 consoles this gen I am holding out on Wii U for a price drop, and games.
Until yesterday I had zero interest in buying PS4 since my PS3 gets little play time, and now I can't see how Microsoft will be able to match Sonys reveal. So Im hoping Xbox will keep up, 360 is one of the best systems Ive ever owned.
Until yesterday I had zero interest in buying PS4 since my PS3 gets little play time, and now I can't see how Microsoft will be able to match Sonys reveal. So Im hoping Xbox will keep up, 360 is one of the best systems Ive ever owned.
Beermeister
Banned
Yes, with 99% more Kinect and 'entertainment'.
Alx
Member
While I mostly agree, I don't think the cost of both sensors would be much different. Assuming kinect 2 still uses Primesense technology, the depth sensor itself isn't much more expensive than an additional camera (it was estimated to $10-$20 for kinect1, and the specs for kinect2 aren't too different), both have similar microphone arrays, and it looks like kinect2 has dumped the servo-motor thanks to its new field of view.
So everything considered, both pack the same complexity of components, but for different uses.
I think Microsoft are targetting nextbox to be a centerpiece of the living room. Something every family will want, for games, for movies, for internet, tv, maybe education. And I think they could have a great deal of success with it, and possibly annihilate the sales of both other consoles, especially in the US.
I think Sony saw that they have little chance of competing with the US connections, marketing, mind share of MS, and backed away from the PS4 being a general entertainment box, and focused on getting the gaming functionality and development right.
When MS reveals nextbox, mainstream impressions will probably be more enthusiastic because they'll likely show the hardware, and spend half their time on non gaming.
I think Sony saw that they have little chance of competing with the US connections, marketing, mind share of MS, and backed away from the PS4 being a general entertainment box, and focused on getting the gaming functionality and development right.
When MS reveals nextbox, mainstream impressions will probably be more enthusiastic because they'll likely show the hardware, and spend half their time on non gaming.
Yes and no. Yes, because they did have a higher number of solid exclusives before Kinect. No because many of them were still on PC like bioshock and ME1, it's just that I and many others weren't on PC back then since Steam hadn't come into its own yet so it felt like they had more exclusives than they did. It's wrong to ignore an entire platform just to pretend another platform is stronger than it really is.
Sony is grabbing the headlines at the moment but when Msoft announces their new Xbox, it'll be what we're talking about.
People discounting Msoft just because they were impressed by Sony's promises are being short-sighted. I think most will recognize that the next Xbox will be an impressive machine, that'll likely match (or best or come close to) the PS4.
The Gaikai functionality really impressed me. I wouldn't discount Msoft from coming up with an impressive list of features.
People discounting Msoft just because they were impressed by Sony's promises are being short-sighted. I think most will recognize that the next Xbox will be an impressive machine, that'll likely match (or best or come close to) the PS4.
The Gaikai functionality really impressed me. I wouldn't discount Msoft from coming up with an impressive list of features.
Oh they will. My exclusive sources ( my cousin who works at mc donald has a friend at a high place within Microsoft ) told me that Microsoft has exclusive content locked down for the next gen versions of Call of Duty, Battlefield 3 and Assassins Creed 4. They will show all of the at their announcement event.
Justzisguyukno
Member
Kind of.. What ends up happening is no one wants to take creative risk, due to the potential to lose lots of money. (At least that is my take on it)
What creativity did they lose?
Vyse The Legend
Member
Creatitvy in the sense of something different, that is what I missed. Owning an original Xbox was like a dream come true. Frankly I don't think IP's shutting down had a direct correlation with what was released, the Studios that were se ure continued to just release installment after installment. LionHead, I would argue, would have been in a better position if they were given the ability to "Nolan/Bethesda" out thier releases, alteranting between a Fable and something else, giving a reprive from the same and old.
I think that Microsoft was aggressive more than anything early on with the 360. They got big 3rd party developers to make exclusive(at the time) titles for them and exclusive DLC. I can definitely see them doing something very similar for the next Xbox.
They could reveal loads of new IP, bit it still wouldn't be enough. I fully expect people on here to get the Ps4 no matter what. The same people who say Ms focus on Kinect yet when you point out they still make games for the hardcore, they change the arguement to new IP. When you point out Sony haven't released new IP until this year then they change the arguement again. I doubt MS will miss these people.
Microsoft is run by suits these days, and the people that made the XBox, and more than that the 360 such a success out of the gate are gone. So is Bungie, which cannot be stated enough. MS historically has the weakest first party support, and I'm not sure that is going to change this generation.
They will be driven by third parties, and price point, and they will focus on the media center capabilities more than the actual games. They have been without direction since Allard left, or the direction has certainly been more "mainstream" than hardcore gamers would like.
I'm simply expecting a "me too" message on hardware, with focus on the media improvements. Surprise me, Microsoft.
They will be driven by third parties, and price point, and they will focus on the media center capabilities more than the actual games. They have been without direction since Allard left, or the direction has certainly been more "mainstream" than hardcore gamers would like.
I'm simply expecting a "me too" message on hardware, with focus on the media improvements. Surprise me, Microsoft.
Truth.com
redfirm
Banned
i already told you guys about the self publishing for indies in the ps4 topic before the ps4 meeting and i am going to be kind to give you a hint about the next xbox:
environment.
try to google and see what you can come up with regarding that word and microsoft
( i cant confirm anything for you guys, so please dont post stuff like, is this what you ment? etc )
environment.
try to google and see what you can come up with regarding that word and microsoft
( i cant confirm anything for you guys, so please dont post stuff like, is this what you ment? etc )
Quoted for truth.
Did you own an original Xbox?
Future PhaZe
Member
Sony having more exclusives has always been a myth. For every Infamous there was a Crackdown, for every Valkyria Chronicles there was a Tales of Vesperia, Uncharted - Gears, Killzone - Halo, Resistance - Mass Effect.
People just have their loyalties and preferences. Both consoles offered great exclusives this gen.
People just have their loyalties and preferences. Both consoles offered great exclusives this gen.
False
Bungie is gone, but 343i pulled off Halo 4 with success and Halo 5 hands down will be one of the biggest games of the next generation.
If you are going to contend that first party developers like Turn 10 who developed the highest rated racing series last in the past 7 years then keep then there is easily evidence that counters that logic.
Microsoft always focuses on the big games that are coming for the system, the Xbox capabilities, and the devices like Kinect as they should.
The bitter truth is Microsoft supports their big games from core to casual, Xbox live content and capabilities, and their lone device which is Kinect.
This support from MS has cnotributes to the success in every category.
On the flipside Sony they then whine that Sony doesnt support their games, Vita, Move, and PSN+ when they could. So Sony gets the blame when any of those are not as successful as they could be.
Microsoft needs to block out the noise that means nothing to the bottomline.
All they need to do is push forward and improve on what made them successful this past gen, while improving on what hurt them.