Lord of Ostia
Member
Not everyone strictly identifies as male or female. That's why the OP brought it up.
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Is the Pokémon "Are you a boy or girl?" thing outdated?
- Thread starter Flowmoney
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I came in expecting this.
I'm not sure how this is outdated, it is asking your biological sex.
Something you should not be offended by, it is who you are.
Sex does not equal gender, which I am sure OP is aware of.
-Mutsukki-
Member
I actually mainly took issue in the implication you should play with an avatar of your gender/sex. Well, maybe I think the guy looks lame and prefer the female design! Or vice versa.
Admittedly it was just a bit of flavor and is probably best treated as such, but I guess there is a degree of being untruthful that can rankle.
Admittedly it was just a bit of flavor and is probably best treated as such, but I guess there is a degree of being untruthful that can rankle.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I get where you're coming from, but it's a game primarily targeted at children. I don't see how this is an issue. It's Pokemon, man.
Riposte
Member
It seems what you want could also be solved by asking "Do you want to play as a boy or a girl?".
Although it has some character customization, the Pokemon games still use specific character designs for player characters. Dropping that completely would be a big change to how versions/generations are presented, and likely not for the better (losing memorable/iconic character designs).
I'm going to guess the number of people who see "Are you a boy or a girl?" as outdated is considerably smaller than you imply, especially for Japan. It's more forward-thinking than "modern".
Although it has some character customization, the Pokemon games still use specific character designs for player characters. Dropping that completely would be a big change to how versions/generations are presented, and likely not for the better (losing memorable/iconic character designs).
I'm going to guess the number of people who see "Are you a boy or a girl?" as outdated is considerably smaller than you imply, especially for Japan. It's more forward-thinking than "modern".
goldenpp72
Member
To expand on my comment a bit more, I respect peoples right to do whatever they want to do, I don't feel gaming should be demanded to cater to every single person however, some people on this forum seem like they'd love to ban the use of gender words entirely which just seems ridiculous.
I'm a man, some people are women, others have a more complex situation and i'm sure most of them understand when a game designed for kids doesn't bring out complex sexual issues. I see no harm in making it more generic (character select screen, etc) but I sure as hell hope the usage of words boy and girl isn't outdated, that's ridiculous and almost all of society would agree.
Hell my security paper work ask your gender, I suppose I should contact HR immediately.
I'm a man, some people are women, others have a more complex situation and i'm sure most of them understand when a game designed for kids doesn't bring out complex sexual issues. I see no harm in making it more generic (character select screen, etc) but I sure as hell hope the usage of words boy and girl isn't outdated, that's ridiculous and almost all of society would agree.
Hell my security paper work ask your gender, I suppose I should contact HR immediately.
Yeah, I always play as the girl in Pokemon when I play it these days.
Is the OP asking whether or not only having Boy and Girl as options is offensive or whether or not the phrasing of the question "Are YOU a Boy or Girl" is offensive?
For the latter, I don't imagine maybe people read that in the context of Pokemon and view it as anything other than a question relating to the character creator.
For the latter, I don't imagine maybe people read that in the context of Pokemon and view it as anything other than a question relating to the character creator.
GinoFelino
Member
Well, that's as well-phrased as anyone here could hope for.
I meant that as the first sentence of the quote above.
Stilton Disco
Member
For the overwhelming majority of people worldwide obviously not, but since they have a precedent with 'pick your style' that works just as well without upsetting the tiny minority that has a problem with it, there's no reason they shouldn't just use that.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I like to play as a girl. I can't do that if there isn't a girl.
No ones asking to ban words, but to play devils advocate you're the one striving to shut down people's options, not the other way around.
A better character creator benefits everyone, so sure why not. X/Y's customization were at least a step in that direction and SM are picking up on that as it was definitely a popular feature. Especially as online grows, having a more personalized avatar is something almost everyone is going to want and is more inclusive at the same time. A real everyone wins scenario.
Neoleo2143
Member
No?
From what I understand "gender", while related to is not equal of "Sexual Orientation".
A transperson can definitely identify with a gender (I would expect that they do). A lesbian person can identify with a gender. A gay person can identify with a gender. A Queer person can identify with a gender.
The only issue that might occur is with a hermaphrodite but even then, they likely still choose to identify with a certain gender over another.
The only thing that changes with sexual orientation is who they're attracted to in a sexual sense and how they want to be perceived sexually (or in the sense of a Transperson both gender wise and sexually). Being asked if they're male or female does not insult that because it's a universally basic human conceit.
Now what they could improve is more shades of skin tones and pregame clothing options. That would be neat.
From what I understand "gender", while related to is not equal of "Sexual Orientation".
A transperson can definitely identify with a gender (I would expect that they do). A lesbian person can identify with a gender. A gay person can identify with a gender. A Queer person can identify with a gender.
The only issue that might occur is with a hermaphrodite but even then, they likely still choose to identify with a certain gender over another.
The only thing that changes with sexual orientation is who they're attracted to in a sexual sense and how they want to be perceived sexually (or in the sense of a Transperson both gender wise and sexually). Being asked if they're male or female does not insult that because it's a universally basic human conceit.
Now what they could improve is more shades of skin tones and pregame clothing options. That would be neat.
Lord of Ostia
Member
I'm not projecting, I'm a cisgender white male. And yes, kids do think about these things. My job is to work with teenagers in a place that is an LGBTQ safe space, and gender identity is a huge concern for many of them. A lot of them don't conform to typical gender norms or identities, and while they aren't going around pissed off that pokemon doesn't represent them (they would never enjoy any media if they had that viewpoint, because hardly any media does), they would appreciate if something they enjoyed was more inclusive.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Nope, not in the slightest.
However, more avatar options is always welcome.
However, more avatar options is always welcome.
PdotMichael
Banned
The majority of children don't do.
It just sucks if you aren't part of it and thinks that a game character is 100% you.
Why bother with the gender selection at all? Just throw in a simple character creator and let everyone use all the parts.
Everyone's satisfied and no one's excluded without the need for any extra work outside of making a feature that probably should've been in the series for a while now.
Hell, while we're at it, why not let people play as characters that look older than teenage at maximum.
Everyone's satisfied and no one's excluded without the need for any extra work outside of making a feature that probably should've been in the series for a while now.
Hell, while we're at it, why not let people play as characters that look older than teenage at maximum.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
The series having a character creator would be great if it was free-form enough.
Hell even Miis were pretty good about that, and that was in 2006. Aside from clothes, the features weren't restricted by gender at all. Something like that would be cool and good for everyone. I think that's really all anyone wants.
Since the games have started putting more emphasis on player customization I feel like a character creator is the inevitable next step at some point.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
So what's the solution? The problem has been addressed but what is the actual solution?
3 choices? Are you a Boy, Girl, or Different?
Don't reference gender at all? Can your Pokemon be different too? Should their genders be scrubbed.
Trust me, I care about inclusiveness esp with race and customizable characters. I have posts in threads to back that up. But while I love seeing the inclusion, I don't assimilate my identity with the game.. That's just a whole other level.
What if they don't? Plenty of biologically born intersex people refuse to associate with a certain gender.
I certainly don't think asking if you are a boy or girl is an enormous issue, but it is a somewhat outdated concept that could be improved in future games in order to be more inclusive to those who truly don't associate with either gender.
You can make the argument that the game is just asking if the character is a boy or a girl, but what if you don't want them to be either? It's easy to say "Too bad", but that ignores the bigger picture.
TissueBox
Member
Love SRIV (and even 3, though I only played part of it) for that. Not just 'cause that's what it does and includes...but because it makes everything a joke at face-value while progressively showing a deeper, warmer affection for everything underneath all the raunchy, naughty irreverence -- the inherent opposite of GTA.
Anyways when it comes to this I guess yeah, it is outdated, but so is character creation in general in that regard. This is an ongoing cultural shift that is still steadily developing awareness in the mainstream consciousness, so it'll take a while before the concepts of genders beyond that of male and female are integrated into game customization seriously and unironically.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
You would think at some point we would just get a full blown character creator
Jubenhimer
Member
No. There's nothing wrong with choosing a gender in any game. It's simply a choice the game gives the player. As everyone said, a more fleshed out character creator is what the series needs.
Salty Rice
Member
-Mutsukki-
Member
I meant like actual kids, like 7 to 9 year olds or so. I mean if they feel like that I can't invalidate them, but I'll still stand that it's an innocent question that shouldn't be read into more than it is. What would "being more inclusive" even entail? Listing more genders? Listing... no genders? Men and women still have different features, I'd think that would make matters even worse. If it's something like being able to use other gender's clothes like Animal Crossing though I can get behind that yeah.
Edit: Character creator though... I dunno. Wouldn't feel very Pokemon to me I think...
If it's to just reword the question altogether I think that's super trivial honestly
hemo memo
Gold Member
Yeah. I mean what kind of qustions is this? You can't figure it out by yourself?
dangeraaron10
Unconfirmed Member
I really don't think it crossed their minds, especially since TPC's target audience are children which usually identify as one or the other. We haven't been able to choose skin color since X/Y (and this feature was present solely in this gen, as was changing clothes). In the first few games you were always a boy. Now we get a 4th skin color. Baby steps, but they're improving. We can choose a biological sex, some skin and hair colors (that are attached to each other, fuck redheads amirite?) and maybe change clothes.
I don't think we'll ever be able to play as an adult in a Pokemon game.
I'd be over the moon if I could play a mainline Pokemon game and not have to play as a child and have access to a respectable character creator.
Would it be nice to have? Yeah, absolutely. Will we ever get it? Probably not. TPC/GF doesn't really care to let us make our own characters.
I don't think we'll ever be able to play as an adult in a Pokemon game.
I'd be over the moon if I could play a mainline Pokemon game and not have to play as a child and have access to a respectable character creator.
Would it be nice to have? Yeah, absolutely. Will we ever get it? Probably not. TPC/GF doesn't really care to let us make our own characters.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
I have no idea what cis people are, but I'm not uncomfortable with it.
I'm just saying that there are two physical genders, and the game asks you to pick one of them. That doesn't have to have anything to do with whatever gender you identify as.
There is no (common) physical third gender, no matter how many there are psychologically speaking. It's just asking you whether your character should look like someone born with an X and a Y, or two Y's.
Didn't they just have a new Pokemon ad targeted at adults that was playing on nostalgia?
Edit; yep - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nkaPpwOhr8Y
Edit; yep - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nkaPpwOhr8Y
By asking "you" they don't necessarily literally mean "you." When I read that sort of thing I understand that it's not me that is the Pokémon trainer, but it's a character. So am I a boy or a girl irl doesn't matter, it's asking (in my own interpretation of the questuon) if I am a boy or girl Pokémon trainer. Is my character a boy or girl.
ScientificPizza
Banned
I mean, yeah it is, but character customisation in pokemon games has always been pretty limited. it would be nice to see more games give more nebulous options regarding appearance and gender and even pronouns
Pokemon are behind the times, but so are the majority of all video games that give you player customisation.
Pokemon are behind the times, but so are the majority of all video games that give you player customisation.
There are more than 2 genders, whether you personally believe it or not.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Gender slider is simple, unobtrusive and wouldn't be noticed by the kind of people who would raise a stink about it
So much this.
Crayon
Member
Could not the question be re worded while leaving the game design intact, is what I was asking. Like if is just showed the two character sprites and asked which you would like to play as.
Lord of Ostia
Member
No, you should just let the player customize their character in the manner they would like, not limiting clothing options to a specific gender, and have multiple body types, facial attributes, skin tones, hair colors, etc. for them to mix and match how they please. Pokemon aren't human, nor are they forced to conform to the strict gender roles that society requires conformity to. Also most pokemon are identical regardless of gender. Bringing the pokemon creatures to the discussion is a little off-topic though, since they aren't facsimiles of the player in the world.
DonMigs85
Member
Yeah, a bit too PC for my tastes. Nintendo will also possibly face backlash from vocal conservative groups if they do integrate gay/trans/genderfluid choices.
Neoleo2143
Member
Hmm, then that's a rather unique Issue that I'm not well equipped to comment on.
Being inclusive is important, I understand that. Especially in games where stories are represented in the physical space more than pretty much any other medium.
I would think it really difficult to ask every spectrum of sexuality in a game targeted to the full age spectrum. A 10 year old probably will likely identify with a gender before eventually deciding on what they want when they emotionally mature.
Perhaps a "No Comment" Option would suffice?
I think one answer is allowing every dress possible to every gender no matter what.
I'm all for being inclusive, but no. It's just a way for you to decide how your avatar looks, it's not some sort of deep question about your identity, you can always just role-play your character as being genderfluid/trans.
Anyway, whether you like it or not, purely from a biological standpoint, everyone is still "assigned" a binary gender at birth. No one gets born trans or genderfluid, you get born as a male or a female. It's just how nature works, or is nature outdated as well?
Anyway, whether you like it or not, purely from a biological standpoint, everyone is still "assigned" a binary gender at birth. No one gets born trans or genderfluid, you get born as a male or a female. It's just how nature works, or is nature outdated as well?
I'm pretty sure that no child in the world thinks this way. Questions about gender and identity usually emerge later in a person's development.
GinoFelino
Member
Is that really a reason not to do it? I'd hope Nintendo is better than that.
Besides, the people getting the most worked up in this thread are the ones who believe it's all a bunch of nonsense.
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