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[Nairume]

I'm not saying the other SW movies did it leagues better, but their plot just didn't demand the quick jumping and thus it was not as apparent.

ANH had them jump from Tatooine to Alderaan and then Yavin in pretty quick succession in what was clearly a short amount. Those were not very close to each other.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

And even if we're not talking about Rey, it's pretty obvious Unkar Plutt has some sort of system of indentured servitude going on with his whole organization because people are literally trading junk for portions of food.

IF they can't even get paid in actual money they're sure as shit not getting a ship anytime soon.

(Staaaar Waaaaars

Logical STAARR WARAARARRRRS

Logic + STAAAR WAAAAAARRRSSS

The way it should stayyyyyyyy)

 

[kopitarrulez_11]

And even if we're not talking about Rey, it's pretty obvious Unkar Plutt has some sort of system of indentured servitude going on with his whole organization because people are literally trading junk for portions of food.

IF they can't even get paid in actual money they're sure as shit not getting a ship anytime soon.

(Staaaar Waaaaars

Logical STAARR WARAARARRRRS

Logic + STAAAR WAAAAAARRRSSS

The way it should stayyyyyyyy)

Is it weird I sang that in my head as Bill Murray ha

 

[Einchy]

This is like when people complained that Jack Bauer in 24 didn't poop.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Is it weird I sang that in my head as Bill Murray ha

That's exactly how the Force works.

 

[JCHandsom]

This is like when people complained that Jack Bauer in 24 didn't poop.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

This is like when people complained that Jack Bauer in 24 didn't poop.

During the first season of Agents of SHIELD, people in tge OT would seriously wonder where one of the main characters would logically poop.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The arc of Kiefer Sutherland's career is so fucking weird.

 

[Surfinn]

Wait, since when has Rey been stuck? She could've easily stolen a million ships and gotten off. SHes not literally stuck, she refuses to want to leave becuse if she does leave, she will not be there once her family comes back for her.

Yeah, she's not literally stuck on the planet. I suspect she had multiple opportunities to leave over the years and did not.

As soon as she leaves Jakku, she tells Han she's been away too long and needs to go back.

She's stuck WAITING. But she doesn't want to leave.

 

[not psycho]

Forced to admit that some people might like the movie with a 92% and 8.2/10 on Rotten Tomatoes, 81 on Metacritic, 8.1 on IMDB, made $2 billion worldwide and is the highest grossing movie domestically of all time. What a harsh and reaching realization you've made.

When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

So we watch Starkiller Base destroy stuff with no world building to make it meaningful... the fact that it is confusing, that we are given no context for such a weapon existing or of the government being destroyed, is only a side effect. The disease is that Nobody. Fucking. Cares. We're doing a bee line through these plot points because the weapon that destroys stars is monstrously boring to the people making the film. World building is monstrously boring to them. A single captain is responsible for getting in the trenches with troublemakers and trying to get Finn in line, and later unilaterally shutting off the shields without going through chain of command. This is not character economy. It is the "small world" syndrome of someone who fundamentally can't stand world building.

The big reveal of Rey being able to control minds is, first of all, turned into a joke. We get a silly progression of try, try again a second later and you can get the storm trooper to cartwheel out the door, shut off the shields, and moonwalk down the halls while the base explodes. But honestly, that too is only a side effect. The disease is that they want to make sure Rey stays as much as mystery as possible, so it is impossible for us to follow her and feel accomplishment; we're just waiting for the other shoe to probably drop, in a different movie we'll see someday.

After the beginning, every character is a plot device, every scene is an obligation. We feel nothing when Solo dies because he was already reduced to a plot device and is better off getting out of these movies. We feel no accomplishment when Rey can control minds because she's a plot device by the time of that scene. The movie doesn't ever slow down and let us get to know anyone. It's a perfunctory rush job (again, after the beginning) and it does not deserve slack because of being the first in a series. It's bad, so it's bad.

 

[TheXbox]

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

So we watch Starkiller Base destroy stuff with no world building to make it meaningful... the fact that it is confusing, that we are given no context for such a weapon existing or of the government being destroyed, is only a side effect. The disease is that Nobody. Fucking. Cares. We're doing a bee line through these plot points because the weapon that destroys stars is monstrously boring to the people making the film. World building is monstrously boring to them. A single captain is responsible for getting in the trenches with troublemakers and trying to get Finn in line, and later unilaterally shutting off the shields without going through chain of command. This is not character economy. It is the "small world" syndrome of someone who fundamentally can't stand world building.

All this is accurate, but you can't reduce Han and Rey to 'plot devices.' That's silly. The Jedi mind trick scene works based on the background we're given early in the film: Rey is familiar with the mythology of the Jedi, and, having discovered her latent Force powers, chooses to ply them in a fashion that must be as storied to her as it is to us. All this following her mind-bending interrogation with Kylo Ren.

Han's decision-making in the second act is baffling, true, but it's so obviously the result of numerous reshoots and a ramshackle screenplay that I can't hold it against him. I'm afraid to say you might be the only one who felt nothing when he got shanked by his son and cast off a bridge.

 

[shintoki]

He had a lot less training than you realize.

--- Luke gets like 3 minutes of training from Obi-Wan and then he's suddenly able to block blaster shots blindfolded and nail beyond computer precision shots. In between A New Hope and Empire he learns how to push/pull objects with The Force without Obi-Wan's assistance at all (when he sees Kenobi's ghost on Hoth is the first time he's seen Ben since he died).

There is plenty wrong here. Focusing on Obi-wan. It's the first time he has a visual manifestation of him. But throughout the rest of ANH, he's hearing him every time he uses the force. There is no a single time he used the force without Ben's voice.

You can sit there and say, well he blocked some bolts so quick. Again, there is not a single force thing he did in the first film, without being guided by Old Ben. And it was only a training drone done meant to train... force users. It was simply there to begin showing his training and journey. He didn't use it in combat.

Every other time, was Ben saying trust your instincts and use the force. Hand holding him along the path. Of course, if we want to compare, we have one of the strongest Jedi of all time guiding him. If LeBron was coaching a high schooler already gifted in basketball. That high school would probably excel.

Also, if we want to bring up flying. It's stated he is a good pilot, it's stated his father was, he went over how it's similar to what he did back home. It's not that he had better aim than a computer, the computer was off as shown by the first shot. All he did was trust in himself and the force, like Ben said. This is of course someone's whose biggest accomplishment in the first film is done piggy backing off the old man. Nothing of what he does seems like a terrible stretch, where it's still showing his connection with Ben and could be simple luck. All he did was hold out long enough against Darth for Han to shoot him in the back. He trusted himself instead of a computer. Shot a door lock, etc.

I feel like some of you are so defensive over the idea that Rey is a Mary Sue(And I'm not saying she is one, honestly didn't even know the word existed till TFA and it seems like a pretty shit label to throw criticism at her character), to ignore she is doing flying through the Death Star level moves the first time, able to repair about anything right off the bat, gifted at melee combat and force power. Without any single bit of guidance. Succeed on her first time with everything and never really had a set back after learning the force is real 15 minutes prior, by someone who isn't a Jedi. This is the fault of TFA and her character.

I'm trying to avoid touching on anything from Empire or Jedi, because we don't know yet what Jedi and 9 will hold of Rey. But Rey's characterization or lack of isn't due to her character not being interesting, but TFA fault of never slowing down it's pacing. It suffers never allowing the cast to simply stay put. Rather, it has to have an action sequence every 10-15minutes.

You get 5 minutes with Rey, before she is attacked. Run away, fly away. Get few minutes before... they are attacked again by Bounty Hunters. And unlike ANH, where Luke was always the focus with Han clearly playing a supporting role. She had to share what little time with Finn, who received the bulk of the character development. But this cycle repeats a few more times. She goes to the planet, has a violent force vision, and runs away. Action scene to capture. The film never gives you time to simply sit and take it in. The pacing is way to frantic and her character suffers from it and the dual lead. So when she is pulling this shit out for right when she needs it, rather than slowly introducing it with Luke in ANH. It's because they choose to add in more action sequences rather than letting characters simply linger, hence her character being more of a tool for action sequences requirement.

I think she is a far more interesting character with what they set up than what Luke was. She has far more personality already, but Luke worked better in ANH simply because the film was structured better and geared around him.


--- After that, inbetween Empire and Jedi, he learns to mind trick people, build a lightsaber, and force choke people on his own as well. He never revisits Yoda in between Empire and Jedi and he hasn't talked to Obi-Wan between movies either.

Luke collectively gets like 2 weeks of training and he goes from moisture farmer to defeating Vader.

.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

How much "guidance" is a disembodied voice spitting fortune cookies into your ear, tho.

Like, what kinda "guidance" is that, really

We're gonna work real hard to stretch the strength/level of that influence and "training" huh.

 

[shintoki]

How much "guidance" is a disembodied voice spitting fortune cookies into your ear, tho.

Like, what kinda "guidance" is that, really

We're gonna work real hard to stretch the strength/level of that influence and "training" huh.

Better than I think I can I think I can I THINK I CAN!

But we have to work really hard to say how one can do everything in one try without any help.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

How was Obi Wan being able to talk to Luke from the afterlife "more powerful than you could ever imagine" anyway?

 

[JCHandsom]

How was Obi Wan being able to talk to Luke from the afterlife "more powerful than you could ever imagine" anyway?

He was a part of The Force. Vader couldn't do jack to him and he effectively became immortal.

There's distinction to be made between "power" in the sense of being really good at fighting and "power" in the sense of transcending beyond physical limitations and becoming one with everything.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

He was a part of The Force. Vader couldn't do jack to him and he effectively became immortal.

There's distinction to be made between "power" in the sense of being really good at fighting and "power" in the sense of transcending beyond physical limitations and becoming one with everything.

At least that's how I see it.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I've seen it also. Definitely some religious parallels there.

 

[JCHandsom]

Better than I think I can I think I can I THINK I CAN!

Rey: "I think I can I think I can I think I can"

Obi-Wan (to Luke): "You think you can you think you can you think you can"

Like, I didn't watch ANH and think "Wow, good thing Obi-Wan was able to use The Force to help Luke". I thought it was pretty clear that Obi-Wan was just giving Luke words of encouragement to do the thing himself.

Also, if we want to get pedantic about self-inspiration vs. external motivation, then this moment is clearly Rey thinking back to Maz's words of guidance and the vision she received.

But we have to work really hard to say how one can do everything in one try without any help.

?

She had plenty of help throughout the film. Most of her major accomplishments were possible because of her friends.

-She's only manages to escape the facility Kylo trapped her in thanks to running into Han, Chewie, and Finn
-She kills a couple of Stormtroopers thanks to the gun Han gave her
-She manages to escape Jakku thanks to having Finn in the gunner's chair
-She beats Kylo Ren thanks to Chewie's hit, Finn's hit, and Maz's words of wisdom about the Force

Going even further, she at least partially fails at everything she succeeds at.

-She keeps crashing the Falcon around on Jakku
-She has trouble taking the safety off her blaster
-Her first encounter with Kylo Ren leads to her getting immobilized, mind read, and captured
-She fails twice at the mind trick before succeeding the third time
-She spends most of the fight with Kylo on the retreat before she gets the upper hand

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Better than I think I can I think I can I THINK I CAN!

But... is it though?

Considering the nature of the Force, is believing in oneself really a lesser option?

this fucking Mary Sue argument I swear to CHRIST

 

[JCHandsom]

this fucking Mary Sue argument I swear to CHRIST

 

[The Faceless Master]

JJ finishing something he started?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

i'm just bored of heroes who were designed to be heroes. where is the neighbor that lives down who can't fly spaceships, shoot accurately, and what not but saves the galaxy in their own meaningful way.

where's that person? huh? checkmate SW fans.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This is probably the most uncharted of territories for him, yeah. I'm not even kidding. Has he actually ever done this before?

 

[Mr Cola]

i'm just bored of heroes who were designed to be heroes. where is the neighbor that lives down who can't fly spaceships, shoot accurately, and what not but saves the galaxy in their own meaningful way.

where's that person? huh? checkmate SW fans.

Its called flight of the navigator and it already perfected film

 

[Surfinn]

But we have to work really hard to say how one can do everything in one try without any help.

What year is it

i'm just bored of heroes who were designed to be heroes. where is the neighbor that lives down who can't fly spaceships, shoot accurately, and what not but saves the galaxy in their own meaningful way.

where's that person? huh? checkmate SW fans.

But they gave you that

Her name is Rey

So she's a pilot. There are plenty of pilots who aren't heroes

 

[Subpar Spatula]

But they gave you that

Her name is Rey

So she's a pilot. There are plenty of pilots who aren't heroes

that doesn't meet my criteria.

 

[itwasTuesday]

You guys keep being mean to J.J. hes not gonna do the next trilogy.

 

[shintoki]

Rey: "I think I can I think I can I think I can"

Obi-Wan (to Luke): "You think you can you think you can you think you can"

Like, I didn't watch ANH and think "Wow, good thing Obi-Wan was able to use The Force to help Luke". I thought it was pretty clear that Obi-Wan was just giving Luke words of encouragement to do the thing himself.

You just said it above though. Obi wan was the other side of the force. I mean, if he "died", you'd probably see a body rather than an empty robe. Alongside him stating he will become more powerful than he could image. You have to be fairly blind to think he has just a normal influence.

Which also plays into the part below, Maz is still alive and telling her something. The influence the two had on each other was very different from the old hermit who lived by Luke growing versus... again someone she met for the first time 15 minutes ago.

Also, if we want to get pedantic about self-inspiration vs. external motivation, then this moment is clearly Rey thinking back to Maz's words of guidance and the vision she received.


?

She had plenty of help throughout the film. Most of her major accomplishments were possible because of her friends.



Going even further, she at least partially fails at everything she succeeds at.

-She keeps crashing the Falcon around on Jakku
This was also her first time flying off the planet. While being able to fly through a broken ship. Even Lando and Han if I recall, had issue in tight spots, making it all the more impressive on her part.
-She has trouble taking the safety off her blaster
So little combat experience?
-Her first encounter with Kylo Ren leads to her getting immobilized, mind read, and captured
I did forget about her getting mind read the first time. So I'll give you that. But she deflected it and read his the second. That's pretty damn quick turn around.
-She fails twice at the mind trick before succeeding the third time
Within 5 seconds still, that's not much of a struggle.
-She spends most of the fight with Kylo on the retreat before she gets the upper hand
You're looking at an anime style power up, alongside out powering him for the Light saber initially

She might as well of been Naruto. Nor would Luke have survived much without Han bailing his ass out several times(Along with the others). It's the question of where are you going to draw the line in what is believable with what is set up with the character or not.

I could by into some of it, but at a point. They needed to sit down, explain a bit about her character, before moving on to another sequence where she demonstrates skill. Even something small like her convincing Finn without realizing she is using the force to do it. Sort of the opposite of Luke, where he needed to be guided in due to his nature. While she was raw power(Which is what I think they were getting at) and willing already, but untrained. It wants the viewer to take the leap.

As I said though, I felt like they sold her character short in favor of more action sequences.

 

[elrechazado]

When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

So we watch Starkiller Base destroy stuff with no world building to make it meaningful... the fact that it is confusing, that we are given no context for such a weapon existing or of the government being destroyed, is only a side effect. The disease is that Nobody. Fucking. Cares. We're doing a bee line through these plot points because the weapon that destroys stars is monstrously boring to the people making the film. World building is monstrously boring to them. A single captain is responsible for getting in the trenches with troublemakers and trying to get Finn in line, and later unilaterally shutting off the shields without going through chain of command. This is not character economy. It is the "small world" syndrome of someone who fundamentally can't stand world building.

The big reveal of Rey being able to control minds is, first of all, turned into a joke. We get a silly progression of try, try again a second later and you can get the storm trooper to cartwheel out the door, shut off the shields, and moonwalk down the halls while the base explodes. But honestly, that too is only a side effect. The disease is that they want to make sure Rey stays as much as mystery as possible, so it is impossible for us to follow her and feel accomplishment; we're just waiting for the other shoe to probably drop, in a different movie we'll see someday.

After the beginning, every character is a plot device, every scene is an obligation. We feel nothing when Solo dies because he was already reduced to a plot device and is better off getting out of these movies. We feel no accomplishment when Rey can control minds because she's a plot device by the time of that scene. The movie doesn't ever slow down and let us get to know anyone. It's a perfunctory rush job (again, after the beginning) and it does not deserve slack because of being the first in a series. It's bad, so it's bad.

Preach

 

[Surfinn]

that doesn't meet my criteria.

Because she used the force to fly well?

Rey is as far away from a hero as you can get, in TFA. Unless you mean you don't want the hero to wield the force and do amazing things?

Finn also fits that bill

When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

So we watch Starkiller Base destroy stuff with no world building to make it meaningful... the fact that it is confusing, that we are given no context for such a weapon existing or of the government being destroyed, is only a side effect. The disease is that Nobody. Fucking. Cares. We're doing a bee line through these plot points because the weapon that destroys stars is monstrously boring to the people making the film. World building is monstrously boring to them. A single captain is responsible for getting in the trenches with troublemakers and trying to get Finn in line, and later unilaterally shutting off the shields without going through chain of command. This is not character economy. It is the "small world" syndrome of someone who fundamentally can't stand world building.

The big reveal of Rey being able to control minds is, first of all, turned into a joke. We get a silly progression of try, try again a second later and you can get the storm trooper to cartwheel out the door, shut off the shields, and moonwalk down the halls while the base explodes. But honestly, that too is only a side effect. The disease is that they want to make sure Rey stays as much as mystery as possible, so it is impossible for us to follow her and feel accomplishment; we're just waiting for the other shoe to probably drop, in a different movie we'll see someday.

After the beginning, every character is a plot device, every scene is an obligation. We feel nothing when Solo dies because he was already reduced to a plot device and is better off getting out of these movies. We feel no accomplishment when Rey can control minds because she's a plot device by the time of that scene. The movie doesn't ever slow down and let us get to know anyone. It's a perfunctory rush job (again, after the beginning) and it does not deserve slack because of being the first in a series. It's bad, so it's bad.

You've got legitimate criticisms here, and a lot of them I agree with. The pacing was rushed. Starkiller was rushed. The world building was lack luster.

But.. worse than the prequels is some crazy hyperbole man

The film has problems but it also does a ton of things right.

The characters shine, even if they're not as fleshed out as they should have been. Rey/Finn/Han/Kylo all have fantastic and satisfying interactions.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Because she used the force to fly well?

Rey is as far away from a hero as you can get, in TFA. Unless you mean you don't want the hero to wield the force and do amazing things?

Finn also fits that bill

Finn fits the bill, sort of, but he's not the hero. you're missing the point, though.

 

[adj_noun]

i'm just bored of heroes who were designed to be heroes. where is the neighbor that lives down who can't fly spaceships, shoot accurately, and what not but saves the galaxy in their own meaningful way.

where's that person? huh?

.

 

[Surfinn]

Finn fits the bill, sort of, but he's not the hero. you're missing the point, though.

Well yeah he's not the hero of the story. Just saying his qualities do fit your bill and.. well, he is a hero, just not the main, force wielding one.

He saves the main hero and the galaxy multiple times over in TFA

And the dude is a fucking janitor

 

[shira]

You guys keep being mean to J.J. hes not gonna do the next trilogy.

Trevorrow Strikes Back

 

[matrix-cat]

You guys keep being mean to J.J. hes not gonna do the next trilogy.

If JJ did do the next trilogy, would he have to remake the Prequels? Would he have to remake his own Episode VII?

 

[Owari]

There are tons of competent directors they could have chosen. Instead they went with Lens Flare who literally fucked up episode 7. RIP Star Wars 1977-1983

 

[Lizzy]

When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

hi my name is han solo and i have a debt to pay off to jabba the hut

*three years later*

hi my name is han solo and i have a debt to pay off to jabba the hut

 

[Bobby Roberts]

There are tons of competent directors they could have chosen. Instead they went with Lens Flare

Jesus fuckin' Christ.

I'm hearin bells again.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Well yeah he's not the hero of the story. Just saying his qualities do fit your bill and.. well, he is a hero, just not the main, force wielding one.

He's the stepping stone for the hero

 

[MHWilliams]

i'm just bored of heroes who were designed to be heroes. where is the neighbor that lives down who can't fly spaceships, shoot accurately, and what not but saves the galaxy in their own meaningful way.

where's that person? huh? checkmate SW fans.

Well...

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Jesus fuckin' Christ.

I'm hearin bells again.

 

[Surfinn]

He's the stepping stone for the hero

Just cuz he's not the main hero doesn't mean he's wasted or unimportant though. Rey would have died and the galaxy would have been doomed if he didn't decide to leave the FO, save Rey twice, and go with Han to complete the plan to destroy SK

 

[Fj0823]

hi my name is han solo and i have a debt to pay off to jabba the hut

*three years later*

hi my name is han solo and i have a debt to pay off to jabba the hut

Is this a joke?

 

[Blader]

Anyone arguing that TFA is worse the prequels is either not arguing in good faith or has such rose-tinted views of the prequels that they may as well be thinking of completely different movies.

i'm just bored of heroes who were designed to be heroes. where is the neighbor that lives down who can't fly spaceships, shoot accurately, and what not but saves the galaxy in their own meaningful way.

where's that person? huh? checkmate SW fans.

Someone who cannot fly or shoot is unfortunately not going to make it very far in Star Wars

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Well...

dude was super OP, so he doesn't even count. like rey wait everyone x 1000000000

 

[itwasTuesday]

There are tons of competent directors they could have chosen. Instead they went with Lens Flare who literally fucked up episode 7. RIP Star Wars 1977-1983

Andrew Kramer will remove them all in Ae before the Di.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWNGMTcD_jY

 

[Lizzy]

Jesus fuckin' Christ.

I'm hearin bells again.

Most of the criticisms expressed in this thread against TFA are those that can be applied, in equal measure, to the OT.

 

[JCHandsom]

You just said it above though. Obi wan was the other side of the force. I mean, if he "died", you'd probably see a body rather than an empty robe. Alongside him stating he will become more powerful than he could image. You have to be fairly blind to think he has just a normal influence.

Which also plays into the part below, Maz is still alive and telling her something. The influence the two had on each other was very different from the old hermit who lived by Luke growing versus... again someone she met for the first time 15 minutes ago.

Sure, but that doesn't mean he was actually interfering and using The Force to help Luke outside of piping in some words of wisdom. The quote is "Use The Force Luke!", not "Here, let me get that for you Luke."

Also, Luke had only heard of "Old Ben" the hermit and had known him for about a day, so don't split hairs here. Luke also didn't receive a life-changing Force vision like Rey did.

So little combat experience?

Litte experience with a blaster. It was already established that she was a good close-range fighter due to her upbringing on lawless Jakku.

This was also her first time flying off the planet. While being able to fly through a broken ship. Even Lando and Han if I recall, had issue in tight spots, making it all the more impressive on her part.

I did forget about her getting mind read the first time. So I'll give you that. But she deflected it and read his the second. That's pretty damn quick turn around.

Within 5 seconds still, that's not much of a struggle.

You're looking at an anime style power up, alongside out powering him for the Light saber initially

All this is goalpost-moving. You said she succeeded at everything first try, I showed how that's not true. Whether she "struggled" enough is, again, more hair splitting.

She might as well of been Naruto. Nor would Luke have survived much without Han bailing his ass out several times(Along with the others). It's the question of where are you going to draw the line in what is believable with what is set up with the character or not.

I could by into some of it, but at a point. They needed to sit down, explain a bit about her character, before moving on to another sequence where she demonstrates skill. Even something small like her convincing Finn without realizing she is using the force to do it. Sort of the opposite of Luke, where he needed to be guided in due to his nature. While she was raw power(Which is what I think they were getting at) and willing already, but untrained. It wants the viewer to take the leap.

As I said though, I felt like they sold her character short in favor of more action sequences

This...is fair. I think this is just a matter of preferences at this point. Your initial post made it seem like Rey just walked through everything perfectly like a "Mary Sue", but it sounds like you just have a general preference towards characters who undergo more explicit hardships. Even if my view differs from yours, that's fine.

 

[Surfinn]

Most of the criticisms expressed in this thread against TFA are those that can be applied, in equal measure, to the OT.

Nah not the OT

We have a special Force Ruleset designed JUST for the OT

Dead old space wizards flying and whispering in people's ears

No problem that can be explained! Now let me see, which page..

 

[JCHandsom]

Nah not the OT

We have a special Force Ruleset designed JUST for the OT

Dead old space wizards flying and whispering in people's ears

No problem that can be explained! Now let me see, which page..

I remember it's right next to the chart explaining the rankings of all the different Force Feats tm.