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JJ Abrams to direct Star Wars Episode IX, Chris Terrio co-writing, now due Dec 2019

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Nairume

Banned
Nah not the OT

We have a special Force Ruleset designed JUST for the OT

Dead old space wizards flying and whispering in people's ears

No problem that can be explained! Now let me see, which page..
It's right there in the Star Wars Sagas Edition Player's Handbook, pages 38-41, and then later in the whole chapter on force powers

Even building a light saber requires being level 7, so we know how many levels minimum Luke must have been at the start of Return of the Jedi, but we must also assume he did some multi-classing in there, so it is likely that his level is much higher at the beginning of the movie. Learning force powers, however, are independent of level, so Luke likely learned to Force Choke those Gamerians at an earlier level *pushes up eyeglasses*
 

Nairume

Banned
Leeennnnss FLLLLAAAAAARRREEE???


LENNSSS FLAAARRRREEEE!
Well, you see, Lens Flare is a Jedi ability as of the new Star Wars rpg but *snort* anybody worth their true salt would only consider the canoninity of the WEG or WotC Star Wars lore guides in regards to what a Jedi is allowed and isn't allowed to do.
 

JCHandsom

Member
Leeennnnss FLLLLAAAAAARRREEE???


LENNSSS FLAAARRRREEEE!

tumblr_lgdg20XWE61qgfevpo1_400.gif
 

MrMephistoX

Member
I'm just blind posting here because I hate Star Wars thread and hive mind Mary Sue memes...Luke vs Vader in ROTJ is the ultimate Mary Sue moment....he was outfucking matched in Empire and ROTJ against someone with years of swordsmanship training. Kylo Ren on the other hand was a newly minted sith hybrid taught by a hologram. Rey, on the other hand, spent years beating fools with a very Maul esque staff...she's shown as adept in hand to hand combat even before she gets a saber so it would make sense that tapping into the force would give her greater power. #wedon'tknnow who her parents are...#shecouldbeapalpatine #shecouldbeakenobi. #uuuuuunliiiiimiiiiteeeeedpoooooooowwwwweeeeerrrr!
 

Pepboy

Member
When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

So we watch Starkiller Base destroy stuff with no world building to make it meaningful... the fact that it is confusing, that we are given no context for such a weapon existing or of the government being destroyed, is only a side effect. The disease is that Nobody. Fucking. Cares. We're doing a bee line through these plot points because the weapon that destroys stars is monstrously boring to the people making the film. World building is monstrously boring to them. A single captain is responsible for getting in the trenches with troublemakers and trying to get Finn in line, and later unilaterally shutting off the shields without going through chain of command. This is not character economy. It is the "small world" syndrome of someone who fundamentally can't stand world building.

The big reveal of Rey being able to control minds is, first of all, turned into a joke. We get a silly progression of try, try again a second later and you can get the storm trooper to cartwheel out the door, shut off the shields, and moonwalk down the halls while the base explodes. But honestly, that too is only a side effect. The disease is that they want to make sure Rey stays as much as mystery as possible, so it is impossible for us to follow her and feel accomplishment; we're just waiting for the other shoe to probably drop, in a different movie we'll see someday.

After the beginning, every character is a plot device, every scene is an obligation. We feel nothing when Solo dies because he was already reduced to a plot device and is better off getting out of these movies. We feel no accomplishment when Rey can control minds because she's a plot device by the time of that scene. The movie doesn't ever slow down and let us get to know anyone. It's a perfunctory rush job (again, after the beginning) and it does not deserve slack because of being the first in a series. It's bad, so it's bad.

Well put, thank you for taking the time so I don't have to regurgitate why this news kills 95% of the interest I had in Episode IX. I'll still watch it, but it may be the first Star Wars I don't see in theaters in many decades.

I thought Rian and story group might be able to undo the terrible work JJ set up (except BB-8 and Kylo). But if Rian refused to come back, it might suggest that the story group was too restrictive? If this is the case, they're going to railroad this franchise into the ground. The fact they don't see how poorly JJ set up the trilogy (except for good casting) further suggests this.
 

JCHandsom

Member
Are you saying J.J. would be be perfect for DBZ 2:Final Form?

*Rey, slowly walking forward*

"What you're seeing now is my normal skill."

*Her hair turns golden, energy ripples around her*

"This is a Mary Sue"

*The air crackles as her power increases*

"And this, this is known as a Mary Sue that has ascended past a Mary Sue. Or, you can call this a Mary Sue 2."

*A smile crosses Rey's face*

"And this...is to go even further beyond!"
 

sphagnum

Banned
So in the interest of talking about JJ, I find it funny that he gets to wrap up the mysteries that he started in TFA (or at least some of them - we know Rian wasn't interested in delving into Snoke's backstory and we don't know of he resolves the Rey issue). Considering his penchant for the mystery box, what's the likelihood that he'll resolve some of this stuff vs. leaving it open ended?
 

Nairume

Banned
Either way, I'm glad that somebody who has already proven to make a solid crowd pleasing star wars film is now handling the last movie, as it means we have a good chance that the entire trilogy will be solid and safely watchable for years to come.

But if Rian refused to come back, it might suggest that the story group was too restrictive?
Rian not coming back for 9 is due to the same reason JJ didn't come back for 8. Making these movies is hell and nobody in their right mind would want to do them back to back.
 

JCHandsom

Member
I'm not really anticipating any big twist or reveals in Episode IX, just to avoid unfavorable "I am your father" comparisons.

My prediction is that Snoke was just a big evil dark side guy hiding in the Unknown Regions until TFO found him, and Rey is either a nobody or a Skywalker.
 

Nairume

Banned
I'm not really anticipating any big twist or reveals in Episode IX, just to avoid unfavorable "I am your father" comparisons.

My prediction is that Snoke was just a big evil dark side guy hiding in the Unknown Regions until TFO found him, and Rey is either a nobody or a Skywalker.
I feel like the way they handled Kylo Ren's parentage in TFA is also their way of being up front about how they know people were going to be expecting shit like that.
 

Tookay

Member
When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

We literally have TFA fans in this thread arguing that Han may have never successfully smuggled anything and has the mentality of a 6-year-old in order to justify him prancing BB-8 around openly, instantly having it observed by those trying to find it, only minutes after he demonstrated his awareness of the importance of hiding it. All so they don't have to acknowledge that, after the promising start, TFA warps at light speed through all the intended plot points with no regard for the world or characters involved in those plot points.

So we watch Starkiller Base destroy stuff with no world building to make it meaningful... the fact that it is confusing, that we are given no context for such a weapon existing or of the government being destroyed, is only a side effect. The disease is that Nobody. Fucking. Cares. We're doing a bee line through these plot points because the weapon that destroys stars is monstrously boring to the people making the film. World building is monstrously boring to them. A single captain is responsible for getting in the trenches with troublemakers and trying to get Finn in line, and later unilaterally shutting off the shields without going through chain of command. This is not character economy. It is the "small world" syndrome of someone who fundamentally can't stand world building.

The big reveal of Rey being able to control minds is, first of all, turned into a joke. We get a silly progression of try, try again a second later and you can get the storm trooper to cartwheel out the door, shut off the shields, and moonwalk down the halls while the base explodes. But honestly, that too is only a side effect. The disease is that they want to make sure Rey stays as much as mystery as possible, so it is impossible for us to follow her and feel accomplishment; we're just waiting for the other shoe to probably drop, in a different movie we'll see someday.

After the beginning, every character is a plot device, every scene is an obligation. We feel nothing when Solo dies because he was already reduced to a plot device and is better off getting out of these movies. We feel no accomplishment when Rey can control minds because she's a plot device by the time of that scene. The movie doesn't ever slow down and let us get to know anyone. It's a perfunctory rush job (again, after the beginning) and it does not deserve slack because of being the first in a series. It's bad, so it's bad.

Barring some hyperbole, this more or less encapsulates how I felt and what I was trying to express yesterday.

The movie is rushing through everything, from the characters interacting (do Poe and Rey even know each other?), to their conflicts (of all the things that they didn't emulate from ANH, they choose to ignore the fact that Luke/Han/Leia in the first Star Wars actually clashed with each other - instead the TFA guys all instantly like each other without any problems, despite their backgrounds), to the entire plot, which is basically just a series of "AND THEN THIS HAPPENED" and no "therefores" or "buts" to explain or examine itself. For the entire runtime, TFA is just running in place until the next guy can take over.

It's delightful in the moment (though I was sensing these problems the first time I watched it) but reveals itself to be empty and devoid of calories upon reflection.
 

MikeyB

Member
When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

At the very least, everything after Han's arrival was atrocious.

...

After the beginning, every character is a plot device, every scene is an obligation. We feel nothing when Solo dies because he was already reduced to a plot device and is better off getting out of these movies. We feel no accomplishment when Rey can control minds because she's a plot device by the time of that scene. The movie doesn't ever slow down and let us get to know anyone. It's a perfunctory rush job (again, after the beginning) and it does not deserve slack because of being the first in a series. It's bad, so it's bad.

That is very well put. It is basically my problem with Abrams in general (all surface, no substance), but never was clearer than in TFA. Character arcs move shallow characters through flashy two dimensional backdrops.
 

Davide

Member
Either way, I'm glad that somebody who has already proven to make a solid crowd pleasing star wars film is now handling the last movie, as it means we have a good chance that the entire trilogy will be solid and safely watchable for years to come.


Rian not coming back for 9 is due to the same reason JJ didn't come back for 8. Making these movies is hell and nobody in their right mind would want to do them back to back.
Weird after he tweeted he would come back in a heart beat.

Rian being Disney's first choice though is a good sign for the quality of VIII.
 

sphagnum

Banned
I'm not really anticipating any big twist or reveals in Episode IX, just to avoid unfavorable "I am your father" comparisons.

My prediction is that Snoke was just a big evil dark side guy hiding in the Unknown Regions until TFO found him, and Rey is either a nobody or a Skywalker.

That would be the most boring origin for Snoke.

I'm pulling for him to be a "fallen Angel"/evil Diathim who was the first Jedi, to combine two fan theories.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I'm pretty optimistic about JJ and Ep. IX. I liked TFA a great deal, but many of the flaws that it has stem from trying to juggle too many things, and dropping a few. (And picking up a few of the wrong things to juggle, for that matter.) But I think it's borderline miraculous how well it turned out, considering how heavy a lift it was.

But sticking the landing of an ongoing story should be a lot easier than a muti-faceted juggling act to kick off a new trilogy in a beloved franchise after a much-derided trilogy preceding it. They should be more or less done unpacking the baggage from time gap between trilogies and the characters will be fully established. I don't want to reduce filmmaking down to "don't fuck it up", but closing this series out should be a less daunting task - less of a tightrope walk - than opening it up.
 

JCHandsom

Member
That would be the most boring origin for Snoke.

I'm pulling for him to be a "fallen Angel"/evil Diathim who was the first Jedi, to combine two fan theories.

Meh, whatever it is I'm not too interested.

I want Kylo to behead the guy at the end of VIII/beginning of IX and take his throne.
 

Nairume

Banned
Weird after he tweeted he would come back in a heart beat.
I'm guessing he probably didn't expect to be asked when he tweeted it and it sounded like a fun possibility.

Then they made the offer and the reality set in that it'd be another 2+ years of grueling production to get it out in time and he started doubting if he could handle it.
 

Pepboy

Member
Either way, I'm glad that somebody who has already proven to make a solid crowd pleasing star wars film is now handling the last movie, as it means we have a good chance that the entire trilogy will be solid and safely watchable for years to come.


Rian not coming back for 9 is due to the same reason JJ didn't come back for 8. Making these movies is hell and nobody in their right mind would want to do them back to back.

Still I thought Rian provided a treatment for Episode IX at some point? So I would hope he would come back at least as a co-writer? It'd be nice if JJ didn't touch the script at least, he's already going to do his best to make whatever you give him super bland.

But hopefully there's still a chance it could end up in production hell and get cancelled / tons of reshoots. Maybe they can undo JJ. If not, I guess we're probably only 10-15 years out from the next retcon anyways, so there's also that to look forward to.
 

Davide

Member
But hopefully there's still a chance it could end up in production hell and get cancelled / tons of reshoots. Maybe they can undo JJ. If not, I guess we're probably only 10-15 years out from the next retcon anyways, so there's also that to look forward to.

Oh my God.

n5UL7.gif


That would be the most boring origin for Snoke.

I'm pulling for him to be a "fallen Angel"/evil Diathim who was the first Jedi, to combine two fan theories.

Prepare to be disappointed if you're expecting an interesting backstory for Snoke.

Rian Johson: "We got the whole story of Palpatine's rise to power in the prequels, but in the original films he's exactly what he needs to be, which is just 'the Emperor'. He's a dark force: the scary thing behind the thing. That was entirely how I approached Snoke. I wasn't interested in explaining where he came from or telling his history, except where it serves this story." (Empire magazine October 2017)
 

JCHandsom

Member
Rian Johson: "We got the whole story of Palpatine's rise to power in the prequels, but in the original films he's exactly what he needs to be, which is just 'the Emperor'. He's a dark force: the scary thing behind the thing. That was entirely how I approached Snoke. I wasn't interested in explaining where he came from or telling his history, except where it serves this story." (Empire magazine October 2017)

As happy as I am with JJ, I'm still bummed that Rian isn't coming back.

Because he gets it.
 
When I first saw TFA I thought it was pretty clearly worse than the already terrible prequels.

Rey's scenes near the beginning are excellent, and I would have loved following along a movie about her in the same vein. But that isn't what we got, or at least not what I got (this is why it took me so long to grok that people truly liked it).

Yeah, your username is still a lie.

How could it take you TWO YEARS to come to terms with the notion people could have possibly, honestly, strongly disagreed with your assessment of the film?

Further, how could your assessment of the film's flaws (which, amazingly, line up with a lot of people's list of shortcomings) lead you to the conclusion that even with those flaws present and accounted for, that it's "clearly worse than the already terrible prequels?"

How you arrived at either destination you're hollering from when you started from the same points most of the rest of us did is the "ungrokkable" scenario here.

It took you two years to accept the basic, easily percievable reality that it was a very well recieved movie despite your misgivings?

Man.
 

Pepboy

Member
JJ was specifically brought on to avoid this, as he's someone who gets the job done on time with no messes.

But if this trilogy is sort of self-contained like the other two, I think JJ's inability to make the viewer care will be much more evident, as opposed to all praise for the "potential" he created in TFA.

Has JJ ever concluded a multi-movie series? Star Trek is just never-ending. edit: I forgot about the LOST ending as well, where it became clear he doesn't know how to conclude a series. I guess if Episode X just picks up immediately after IX it should be "okay", at least if you consider TFA to be "okay".

It's hard to have a next retcon of things when we haven't had a first retcon of materials that actually mattered.

Well I mean, the Expanded Universe was definitely retconned, but I'm also fine with that getting retconned. It had some fun ideas but it was good to return to the source (plus Clone Wars).

But what I really meant was the Marvel structure. Origin stories are the most popular. Once we start to see declining interest in Star Wars, you bet your bottom dollar that Disney will consider a reboot. Redoing the Original Trilogy will definitely happen in the next 30-40 years, but I think it will be more like 10-15 if sales drop off fast.

Maybe they'll call it "Star Wars Prime" or something, who knows, but if the audiences are already showing a lack of interest in SW, no one will be that upset. It happens all the time in comic books, as well as other long-running franchises.
 

Davide

Member
But if this trilogy is sort of self-contained like the other two, I think JJ's inability to make the viewer care will be much more evident, as opposed to all praise for the "potential" he created in TFA.
Almost every one I know thought he hit it out of the park with the characters especially making Rey and Finn likeable people you care about.

I just don't understand some of you people.
 

Nairume

Banned
Well I mean, the Expanded Universe was definitely retconned, but I'm also fine with that getting retconned. It had some fun ideas but it was good to return to the source (plus Clone Wars).
I don't really think that retconning really counts, since the old EU was always something that the movies openly disregarded at every venture. It was also clear that the EU was almost certainly going to go out the window if there was ever a film sequel trilogy, since there was no way Lucasfilm would be fine with just retelling the stories that people read years before in a bunch of questionable books.

But what I really meant was the Marvel structure. Origin stories are the most popular. Once we start to see declining interest in Star Wars, you bet your bottom dollar that Disney will consider a reboot. Redoing the Original Trilogy will definitely happen in the next 30-40 years, but I think it will be more like 10-15 if sales drop off fast.
Is the Marvel structure even a fair comparison? We're now a decade into the MCU and there's no sign of them rebooting any of their film franchises. Hell, they even were fine with just kinda sorta grandfathering in the Ang Lee Hulk instead of doing another origin story for Hulk.
 

Betty

Banned
I like the characters but I dont care about the war. That's a problem.

Same.

My biggest problem is I keep feeling like the Empire/New Order should be defeated overthrown or at least shown to be heavily hurting and yet the next film comes along and they still have the upper hand.

I get that they're galactic wide, but it doesn't feel like anything done to them seriously threatens their power or ever will.
 
It'd be nice if JJ didn't touch the script at least, he's already going to do his best to make whatever you give him super bland.

But hopefully there's still a chance it could end up in production hell and get cancelled / tons of reshoots. Maybe they can undo JJ.

XozC0f5.gif


I like the characters but I dont care about the war. That's a problem.

How much did you care about the war after first seeing Episode IV?
 

Fj0823

Member
Well put, thank you for taking the time so I don't have to regurgitate why this news kills 95% of the interest I had in Episode IX. I'll still watch it, but it may be the first Star Wars I don't see in theaters in many decades.

I thought Rian and story group might be able to undo the terrible work JJ set up (except BB-8 and Kylo). But if Rian refused to come back, it might suggest that the story group was too restrictive? If this is the case, they're going to railroad this franchise into the ground. The fact they don't see how poorly JJ set up the trilogy (except for good casting) further suggests this.

I agree.

I mean, Rian could do everything in his power to make the story absolutely unable to end in a ROTJ rehash and I'd still be worried about JJ bullshitting back the status quo like he did for TFA
 

Pepboy

Member
Almost every one I know thought he hit it out of the park with the characters especially making Rey and Finn likeable people you care about.

I just don't understand some of you people.

Likeable, sure! I mean I really like all of the new characters. They seem fun people to talk to, and occasionally you get adorable moments like BB's flame torch. And I think Kylo Ren is a very interesting villain (maybe redeemable?), with a lot of interesting stuff going on under the hood.

But Poe died and came back (still unclear how his jacket flew off him or where he got thrown, but okay sure) -- plus the new death star killing a planet and no one gave a shit. In the OT, you can see the pain in Leia. She begs not for it to be destroyed, and is personally devastated after the impact.

Most people coming out of the movie didn't know what planet was killed, a lot of people thought it was in the same solar system (still the most reasonable assumption), some people thought it was coruscant. If you don't or can't care about how deadly this super base is, why should you feel tension whether they can destroy it or not in time?

Or how about why Rey is afraid to leave the planet and then suddenly changes her mind after a few lines of dialogue (IIRC)? Luke longs to leave the planet and even then he feels duty to his family. It's only when he sees their smoldering skeletons that he feels okay moving on. Did anyone care about Rey's internal struggle when it was just brushed aside?
 
A good deal.

How. So far as anyone knew for about two straight years, the war was over.

I get the argument: The larger galactic conflict is still this weird nebulous thing that doesn't have much weight to it in TFA. This is absolutely true. Most of the emotional stakes are just those: Emotional ones. Tied up in characters and their arcs, not so much the larger ramifications in the fictional universe (like say, Rogue One, which more or less inverted this dynamic).

But the idea that "caring about the war" is all that important by the end of TFA (or that it was important at all at the end of ANH also doesn't carry that much weight.

The threats are pretty thoroughly dealt with by the triumphant end of each movie (see how I'm alluding to the general similarities between the two films here without indulging in some superficial thoughtless horseshit about how the one is some sort of carbon copy of the other, btw?) so "caring about the war" is probably going to be an emotional state that the next movie has to nail, because in both instances, the aim was to get you to NOT care about it by the end, but to set all that shit aside (or believe it was done with) for the purpose of seeing our heroes achieve their goals.

edit: Again, the story group doesn't actually steer any of the story. They just make what ideas the creatives have FIT with the existing canon. That's what they do. They don't map shit out for the creatives, they don't issue directions or rules for the creatives to follow. They simply help massage the creatives' story into a shape that fits with what everyone else has already made/written.

But Poe died and came back (still unclear how his jacket flew off him or where he got thrown, but okay sure) -- plus the new death star killing a planet and no one gave a shit. In the OT, you can see the pain in Leia. She begs not for it to be destroyed, and is personally devastated after the impact.

The first is some crazy nitpicking (How'd his jacket come off!?!) but the second is just wrong. You can't really "see the pain" in Leia. She has one reaction shot to what happened and for the rest of the movie she doesn't react to it at all. In fact the one time she's asked to react to it she tells that person to shut the fuck up because there's no time for that bullshit.

In fact, you saw MORE impact regarding the destruction of Hosnian Prime (as empty/confusing as that scene ultimately was) than you did of Alderaan. At least a crowd of people came out to wring hands and freak out quietly, as opposed to Ben taking a seat and brushing it off like "Okay, back to glowstick training" and Leia grimacing for 1.5 seconds.
 

THE GUY

Banned
Episode VII is the only Star Wars movie I've enjoyed, so I'm fine with this. J.J. Abrams is a pretty inoffensive director. I haven't really liked or disliked any of his movies, but they all tend to be alright and worth a watch. Gonna need some more focus on Finn though. Best character.
 

Magwik

Banned
Star Wars has always been the classic good vs evil. You root for the good guys, and the evil guys are bad, thats how the universe operates. Kylo Ren has the most depth and character for an antagonist than any of the other films.
 

Musolf815

Member
Has JJ ever concluded a multi-movie series? Star Trek is just never-ending. edit: I forgot about the LOST ending as well, where it became clear he doesn't know how to conclude a series. I guess if Episode X just picks up immediately after IX it should be "okay", at least if you consider TFA to be "okay".

He didn't work on Lost's ending. The last episode he wrote for that was in season 3.
 
LOST was like 80% Lindelof's baby, 15% Cuse/Horowitz/Bender/Kitsis, and maybe, if you're lucky, 5% Abrams. If that. And that 5% was like, advisory and tone-setting for the most part.

People are trying to talk about Abrams' pluses & minuses with any sort of authority and don't actually know what he does/what he's done/how he does shit.

Just kinda aimlessly guessing at shit with conviction.
 

JCHandsom

Member
LOST was like 80% Lindelof's baby, 15% Cuse/Horowitz/Bender/Kitsis, and maybe, if you're lucky, 5% Abrams. If that. And that 5% was like, advisory and tone-setting for the most part.

People are trying to talk about Abrams' pluses & minuses with any sort of authority and don't actually know what he does/what he's done/how he does shit.

Just kinda aimlessly guessing at shit with conviction.

He's the Lens Flare guy right?
 
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