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Large Youtubers Hide Ownership of CSGO Lottery Site

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S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
Slightly Live said:
Maybe I am, but I think we need to remember Valve is directly involved here. Not just looking away and turning a blind eye. They profit directly and handsomely. They need to own up to the type of illegal activities they facilitate and stop facilitating it.

If your company is making money from underage gambling, just fucking stop it. Immediately.
Click to expand...

If one of the many third party marketplace makes $12,000 a day, imagine how much Valve makes... 0.O

EDIT: However, these sites possibly/definitely rake in whatever they want to without Valve making a cut out of it.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Fishlake said:
Wow.

I hope they don't get away with just a fine.

Thanks for all the information everyone. It's really amazing that they have not gotten a lawyer yet.
Click to expand...

Someone with this amount of wealth will already have a lawyer or accessibility to one. Especially as he will know what he is doing is shady as shit. If he can do all this without batting an eyelid, a lawyer or financial adviser is probably helping avoid taxes at this rate.

shagg_187 said:
If one of the many third party marketplace makes $12,000 a day, imagine how much Valve makes... 0.O
Click to expand...

Hence my greedy remark. I mean keys are still going to make them a fuckload of money, an absolute fuckload. Shutting down the trading just helps stop the scumminess, scams, and other shite going on that attaches itself to the game and it's marketplace.
 
A

Alienous

Member
shanafan said:
I need to play dumb here because I am not quite sure I understand the overall scope of this.

So, Tmartn and Syndicate are owners of a CS:GO gambling website - which they did not disclose in their videos (which have since been taken down it appears). It is a big deal to promote something on YouTube, and not disclose the fact that they are being paid (or running) said thing. I understand that.

What I do not understand is what goes beyond that. From the videos I have seen from this CS:GO Lotto website, you can bet CS:GO skins, weapons, etc against others in hopes to get other skins, weapons, etc. But, is there real money being traded? That is what I do not understand.

With that said, so Tmartn and Syndicate are playing this CS:GO Lotto website, and might have an advantage because they are admins on the website - but if real money isn't being traded - just digital items - is that punishable by law?
Click to expand...

CSGOLotto also seems to give an indicator of the market monetary value of a skin (though it doesn't specify dollars, or any currency amount, it seems to be in dollars). These can be sold within the Steam Market, where the seller recieves funds added to their Steam Wallet. These skins can also be sold on third-party sites for cash.

That's how I understand it.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
liquidtmd said:
True but screw the police - if Valve doesn't send a clear message involving a guy screenshotted running around saying he won $13,000 on a site that he owns that is dependent on their marketplace that really does start to have implications.
Click to expand...
It's really frustrating to watch Valve constantly try to shift any and all responsibilities away from themselves for the actions of their huge community or massive market they've created around Steam. You can't just sit back every time a new scandal unfolds and just completely shrug it off with "well shit happens, we can't control it."

No. You can control it. You are electing not to.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
Slightly Live said:
Maybe I am, but I think we need to remember Valve is directly involved here. Not just looking away and turning a blind eye. They profit directly and handsomely. They need to own up to the type of illegal activities they facilitate and stop facilitating it.

If your company is making money from underage gambling, just fucking stop it. Immediately.
Click to expand...

They don't profit from the gambling part. I don't know where you get that idea.

Valve created a market to trade/sell skins and that alone isn't a problem. If people sell something they get a cut. Okay. Nothing shady here really. It creates a weird dynamic for the game but hey it's theirs.

People making trading bots and gambling sites is removed from that to a degree that I don't think you can call them directly involved and no actual money changes hands, so Valve gets nothing.

Valve's API allows the bots that make those sites possible, but that's pretty much it.
 
coughlanio

coughlanio

Member
Audioboxer said:
Someone with this amount of wealth will already have a lawyer or accessibility to one. Especially as he will know what he is doing is shady as shit.
Click to expand...

He didn't not have a lawyer until very recently, if even. Either that, or his lawyer is an inanimate sponge.
 
T

TheLegendOfMart

Banned
Hope Valve gets fucked as well, they are directly enabling and profiting from this kind of stuff. They could have easily cracked down on it but they are just as complicit as the streamers/youtubers.

YianGaruga said:
They don't profit from the gambling part. I don't know where you get that idea.

Valve created a market to trade/sell skins and that alone isn't a problem. If people sell something they get a cut. Okay. Nothing shady here really.

People making trading bots and gambling sites is removed from that to a degree that I don't think you can call them directly involved.

Valve's API allows the bots that make those sites possible, but that's pretty much it.
Click to expand...

The API has been abused to make these betting site, Valve directly makes a profit from it, they could easily have blocked them from accessing the API.
 
shanafan

shanafan

Member
Alienous said:
CSGOLotto also seems to give an indicator of the market monetary value of a skin (though it doesn't specify dollars, or any currency amount, it seems to be in dollars). These can be sold within the Steam Market, where the seller recieves funds added to their Steam Wallet. These skins can also be sold on third-party sites for cash.

That's how I understand it.
Click to expand...

Oh that's a good point. I didn't know you could sell your skins on Steam.
 
E

El-Suave

Member
Audioboxer said:
The thing is they'll still make plenty of money via keys (much like Overwatch)... It's like why Valve?!

Why do you need to be this greedy?
Click to expand...

A lot of it probably has to do with being different for being different's sake and looking advanced at the same time. The promise of making real money with in game items is pretty old but very few companies have followed through. Getting a better revenue stream certainly is another motivating factor.
 
N

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Audioboxer said:
The thing is they'll still make plenty of money via keys (much like Overwatch)... It's like why Valve?!

Why do you need to be this greedy?
Click to expand...

Yeh, they'd still rake in tons of money.

Why so greedy? Because it's likely they get magnitudes more this way and it easily off-sets increased customer service (haha), scamming, botting and negative publicity costs that might arise. :/

For now anyways. I think if the outcry is large enough they'll actually be cautious because they want to retain their good, 'customer friendly' image. Though it's hard to imagine something so severe to occur that they actually go as far as disabling trading. Successful lawsuits against these practices might be the only way.
 
P

PtM

Banned
YianGaruga said:
They don't profit from the gambling part. I don't know where you get that idea.

Valve created a market to trade/sell skins and that alone isn't a problem. If people sell something they get a cut. Okay. Nothing shady here really. It creates a weird dynamic for the game but hey it's theirs.

People making trading bots and gambling sites is removed from that to a degree that I don't think you can call them directly involved and no actual money changes hands, so Valve gets nothing.

Valve's API allows the bots that make those sites possible, but that's pretty much it.
Click to expand...
Ah, so that's what the bots are for. But I agree to an extent, though Valve need to regulate this market with an iron grip.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
YianGaruga said:
They don't profit from the gambling part. I don't know where you get that idea.

Valve created a market to trade/sell skins and that alone isn't a problem. If people sell something they get a cut. Okay. Nothing shady here really. It creates a weird dynamic for the game but hey it's theirs.

People making trading bots and gambling sites is removed from that to a degree that I don't think you can call them directly involved.

Valve's API allows the bots that make those sites possible, but that's pretty much it.
Click to expand...
The bots would exist either way. What the API does is allowing you to login and look at your inventory. This has hundreds upon hundreds of legitimate uses. If they shutdown the API, all that would be accomplished would be affecting all legitimate uses, and only barely affect skin gambling, as they would just go around it and make a process of their own to ping the inventories by themselves. It would be less convenient and slpwer, but with the kind of money they pull in it wouldn't be much of a issue.

TheLegendOfMart said:
Hope Valve gets fucked as well, they are directly enabling and profiting from this kind of stuff. They could have easily cracked down on it but they are just as complicit as the streamers/youtubers.



The API has been abused to make these betting site, Valve directly makes a profit from it, they could easily have blocked them from accessing the API.
Click to expand...
Its a open API. Even if they start blocking those sites from using it they will have new domains up using it again in less than 24 hours. And if they remove the API altogether for everyone (which would be the fucking stupidest thing they could do ), skin gambling sites would still get around that.
 
S

Savitar

Member
Based on previous things Valve reacted too when shit hit the fan I'm sure they'll do the bare minimum and basically ignore everything else.

Really don't expect much out of them.
 
O

Opus Angelorum

Member
I understand PSISyndicate is a different guy, but I'm curious if this banner was only added recently?

PSI.png
Click to expand...

Anyway to check when the video was last modified?
 
M

Mrbob

Member
To those who wish Valve to get f'd, probably get your wish. They are going to get sued over this scandal. Though this doesn't really have anything to do with Steam. This is a CS Go marketplace issue and how it is run. Still they will have made way more money than they will have to pay out in a lawsuit.

EA going to get sued too once there is proof they've been cherry picking card packs for youtubers to promote their game.

Though I think the real lesson here is that while people like to shit on traditional media, youtubers are the ones taking handouts from these videogame publishers. I feel like we are coming up on a day of reckoning for youtubers. This is only the beginning.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
El-Suave said:
A lot of it probably has to do with being different for being different's sake and looking advanced at the same time. The promise of making real money with in game items is pretty old but very few companies have followed through. Getting a better revenue stream certainly is another motivating factor.
Click to expand...

Because all of this is living proof trying to regulate it and prevent fuckery is near impossible. Blizzard got burned trying it with D3, and while people will jump at me to say cosmetics are different, you're missing the point.

If Valve are simply a company that only cares about $$$ then it's about time they stop getting held up as a model citizen and rather placed in-line with every other company that does that as standard, make as much as possible regardless of criticism.

Because right now in this industry to be different is to be happy making a ton of money but avoiding being just that bit scummy to make a ton more on top of your current ton. In other words protecting your brand and image at times while being happier with a slightly smaller fuck load of money.

Many gaming companies are just reflecting the attitudes of these YT streamers right now ~ A race to the top of the I'm the richest mountain regardless of how it is done.
 
N

Nibel

Member
May 2016

hXQNqTo.png


Today when shit popped up

aJIH3GY.png


Right now (I assume he talked with his lawyer)

lvnooFg.png


Oh and btw

Update 8:00PM BST: Valve have unblocked CSGOLotto after a volunteer moderator mistakenly flagged it as malicious earlier today, while an attorney has stated that TmarTn and ProSyndicate's conduct was "definitely illegal". Furthermore, another YouTuber has admitted taking part in rigged CS:GO wagers in order to promote another skin gambling site.
Click to expand...

http://www.pcgamesn.com/counter-strike-global-offensive/csgolotto-csgo-gambling-tmartn-prosyndicate
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
BernardoOne said:
The bots would exist either way. What the API does is allowing you to login and look at your inventory. This has hundreds upon hundreds of legitimate uses. If they shutdown the API, all that would be accomplished would be affecting all legitimate uses, and only barely affect skin gambling, as they would just go around it and make a process of their own to ping the inventories by themselves. It would be less convenient and slpwer, but with the kind of money they pull in it wouldn't be much of a issue.
Click to expand...

Don't you need to actually trade those skins though during/after the gambling part? I don't see how that can be automated without direct access.

Anyway, I'm not saying they should shut down the API, that wasn't my idea.

I don't see how this whole thing can be stopped without stopping trading/selling entirely.
 
A

Apoleptica

Banned
The question now is will all of this new evidence / detective work actually be seen by proper authorities who can do something about it, or will it disappear into the internet archive ether.
 
H

Hypereides

Gold Member
liquidtmd said:
True but screw the police - if Valve doesn't send a clear message involving a guy screenshotted running around saying he won $13,000 on a site that he owns that is dependent on their marketplace that really does start to have implications.
Click to expand...

In a sense, it might already have.

They should've caught wind of this, earlier or so, then started shutting down those sites after they began emerging.

It shouldn't have taken a full blown exposure for Valve to take action.
 
E

Eidan

Member
Seriously, how long has Valve been so scummy? Between this and the shit show that is Steam Greenlight, they seem to not really care that their platforms are integral in scamming and defrauding their consumers.
 
B

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
liquidtmd said:
LOL Valve have....unblocked it?
Click to expand...

Valve have unblocked CSGOLotto after a volunteer moderator mistakenly flagged it as malicious earlier today, while an attorney has stated that TmarTn and ProSyndicate's conduct was "definitely illegal". Furthermore, a separate YouTuber has admitted taking part in rigged CS:GO wagers in order to promote another skin gambling site.
Click to expand...

Volunteer mod flagged it earlier
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
Dubz said:
As a new parent and long time gamer I find this appalling. I'm also very concerned with the trend of gambling for cosmetic items in games, whether is be CSGO, Overwatch, or whatever.

Gambling is a serious issue, and not having any age restrictions for these virtual slot machines is insane.
Click to expand...
That's not true. They recommend that you be at least 13 years old to gamble on their site.

Ugh
 
B

BowieZ

Banned
Mrbob said:
I feel like we are coming up on a day of reckoning for youtubers. This is only the beginning.
Click to expand...
I know. It used to be a way to share yourself and your ideas and creations. Now it's all about the $$$.

It's personally demoralising really... as someone who slaves away for 10-20 hours at a time creating a piece of original music and sharing it with my fans and barely 4K subscribers... after 6 years (a few years of which I had to go away and earn a living in a dead end job) I have $0 to show for it. I do it for personal and spiritual satisfaction and because I know others can enjoy it, hopefully, too. Money should only come to those who need it to support their hard work, and should not be a profit-making machine to finance mansions.
 
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