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[DasPenguin]

Weird, neither do we!


Man, Europe sure does have plenty of acid attacks, trucks of peace, and various other types of violence and murder, it's almost as if crime and violence happen regardless of what tools are at hand

Comparing gun deaths in America to deaths in Europe that are caused by terrorism is pretty much like comparing the album sales of Bruno Mars and a local garage band. Of course you can do it, but it’s pretty ducking stupid.

Last time terrorism killed over 200 people in Europe in a single year was 1988. Of course radicalism in the rise (I wonder who is to blame for that) but the death toll on a early basis is still very small. Of course when a certain xenophobic fool screams about every other day, you start to think that these are daily incidents.

Now America on the other hand has approximately 33k gun related deaths per year. As a comparison in England people die in gun related incidents as often as Americans are killed by agricultural equipment.

 

[BANGS]

I'm beyond angry that this disease continues to grow and the right wing is convinced do nothing or solve it all for us right now this minute is the answer.

Absolutely disgusting that both sides immediately jump to politicize this. Look at how this leftist just blew a fuse trying to figure out how to spin it in his direction...

 

[DasPenguin]

Absolutely disgusting that both sides immediately jump to politicize this. Look at how this leftist just blew a fuse trying to figure out how to spin it in his direction...

You don’t have to spin anything when it comes to American gun violence. It’s not even a left or right issue. Numbers and facts are kind of cool that way. Of course you can just scream “fake news” everytime you don’t like something. Doesn’t make it any less true.

 

[BANGS]

You don’t have to spin anything when it comes to American gun violence.

You certainly do when you're haphazardly applying it to Canada...

It’s not even a left or right issue. Numbers and facts are kind of cool that way. Of course you can just scream “fake news” everytime you don’t like something. Doesn’t make it any less true.

I'm not sure what this is referring to at all. Nobody can dispute numbers and facts. The left or right issue is how to move forward to help fix the problems associated with said numbers...

 

[DasPenguin]

You certainly do when you're haphazardly applying it to Canada...

..

Wasn’t trying to do that, so my mistake if it came out that way. Was only talking about the U.S. statistics.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Comparing gun deaths in America to deaths in Europe that are caused by terrorism is pretty much like comparing the album sales of Bruno Mars and a local garage band. Of course you can do it, but it’s pretty ducking stupid.

Last time terrorism killed over 200 people in Europe in a single year was 1988. Of course radicalism in the rise (I wonder who is to blame for that) but the death toll on a early basis is still very small. Of course when a certain xenophobic fool screams about every other day, you start to think that these are daily incidents.

Now America on the other hand has approximately 33k gun related deaths per year. As a comparison in England people die in gun related incidents as often as Americans are killed by agricultural equipment.

Why are you comparing suicides and accidents with terrorism?

 

[Takuan]

The guy was known to the Toronto PD, the OPP, and RCMP for having expressed support for what is considered a pro-ISIL site - or so The Sun is reporting. Other outlets are talking about gun control (in a city that already has very strong gun laws?) and mental illness. I imagine we'll get more facts as the week progresses.

As a local resident, I do not want more guns on the streets. I understand the mentality behind it, but it only leads to more problems.

 

[Marshmallow]

Weird, neither do we!


Man, Europe sure does have plenty of acid attacks, trucks of peace, and various other types of violence and murder, it's almost as if crime and violence happen regardless of what tools are at hand

Uh, what's the actual argument here? If you have strict gun laws, terrorism (Which is often external) rises? If European countries had looser gun laws the the terrorist attacks would stop? Why doesn't Japan get many terrorist attacks so often? Why are there European countries that never got got terrorist attacks? They barely have guns there.

 

[BANGS]

Uh, what's the actual argument here? If you have strict gun laws, terrorism (Which is often external) rises? If European countries had looser gun laws the the terrorist attacks would stop? Why doesn't Japan get many terrorist attacks so often? Why are there European countries that never got got terrorist attacks? They barely have guns there.

I'd imagine the argument is that guns don't kill people, people kill people... with the added point that if gun laws were a tad looser, gun owners could shoot terrorists in the face...

 

[Roni]

This needs to stop. I'm all for gun possession and open carry. But steps to ensure the person who owns the gun doesn't have homicidal thoughts or intentions could help.

 

[cryptoadam]

Can we please not make this into a USA gun debate. The vast majority of Canadians don't want guns all over the place and because there was a shooting we aren't going to all of a sudden make our gun laws more RELAXED. You can't stop all violence but removing the tools helps.

I am more interested to find out the details and why do I have a feeling that a lot of the story is being hidden/not talked about ?

 

[Spheyr]

Some of the biggest gun collections I know are owned by Canadians

 

[TheShadowLord]

Can we please not make this into a USA gun debate. The vast majority of Canadians don't want guns all over the place and because there was a shooting we aren't going to all of a sudden make our gun laws more RELAXED. You can't stop all violence but removing the tools helps.

I am more interested to find out the details and why do I have a feeling that a lot of the story is being hidden/not talked about ?

or maybe the investigation is still on going?

 

[Takuan]

Can we please not make this into a USA gun debate. The vast majority of Canadians don't want guns all over the place and because there was a shooting we aren't going to all of a sudden make our gun laws more RELAXED. You can't stop all violence but removing the tools helps.

I am more interested to find out the details and why do I have a feeling that a lot of the story is being hidden/not talked about ?

People don't like feeling helpless, so I understand the mentality, however reactionary it may be. I agree that making the tools difficult to access is ultimately better for society than handing those tools over to its citizens.

Also very interested for more facts, but I think people who've already decided in their heads aren't really going to be swayed. Also, as TheShadowLord mentions, it's probably a good thing for our media to confirm facts before reporting them.

 

[BANGS]

This needs to stop. I'm all for gun possession and open carry. But steps to ensure the person who owns the gun doesn't have homicidal thoughts or intentions could help.

That's literally impossible, at least with today's technology...

 

[Takuan]

That's literally impossible, at least with today's technology...

We'd need Minority Report technology. Even then, the data can be manipulated by the powers that be

 

[cryptoadam]

or maybe the investigation is still on going?

I will wait to see what the investigation brings up. I guess that is a good thing about our media is that we don't going flying all half cocked before knowing whats really going on.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's literally impossible, at least with today's technology...

Yep, people are making guns on 3D printers now and that is pretty much impossible to track.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Mental illness my ass. Read his name. All the dems are crying about gun control in Canada lmfao

Everyone knows why he did it and no one wants to say it.

No we dont.

 

[Takuan]

No we dont. You’re a buffoon.

In all fairness, when was the last time someone from that background committed an atrocity and wasn't tied to Islamic extremism?

 

[Roni]

That's literally impossible, at least with today's technology...

If that really is impossible, then the only alternative is making guns ubiquitous. Guns should be like cars then. So we can keep each other in check.

 

[Spheyr]

Yep, people are making guns on 3D printers now and that is pretty much impossible to track.

People have been making untraceable guns since gunpowder was invented

 

[BANGS]

If that really is impossible, then the only alternative is making guns ubiquitous. Guns should be like cars then. So we can keep each other in check.

I'm pretty sure every legal gun has to be registered to it's owner already... I could be wrong about that though...

 

[Spheyr]

For America as a whole you are incorrect, there is no federal firearms registration

 

[Roni]

I'm pretty sure every legal gun has to be registered to it's owner already... I could be wrong about that though...

No, I mean, the culture needs to change so most people get a gun when they turn 21 and go through some basic tactical training. That way, when shit like this happens, we can take the guy down quickly.

 

[Liberty4all]

ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack. Could be bullshit of course.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...ronto-shooting-provides-no-evidence-1.4027132

 

[Spheyr]

No, I mean, the culture needs to change so most people get a gun when they turn 21 and go through some basic tactical training. That way, when shit like this happens, we can take the guy down quickly.

Why wait for 21? You can buy guns at 18

 

[TheShadowLord]

ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack. Could be bullshit of course.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...ronto-shooting-provides-no-evidence-1.4027132

maybe ISIS should send canada some proof if they really were responsible. They did the same for the Vegas Shooting

 

[mustardman]

Just another clusterfuck of a thread where no one cares to look at the facts and spits out their own talking points.
Toronto Police says there is no evidence of ISIS claim
More facts and City of Toronto's response

1. There is currently no evidence this is a religious motivated shooting. All evidence from the family seems to suggest he is secular, and it was primarily mental health related. In case you want to call me a dirty leftie, I have no issue calling a spade a spade. The terrorist attack in Edmonton last year was definitely motivated by Islamic terrorism.
2. Canada is not the US and the issues regarding gun violence are not nearly the same. Both the causes and the amount of damage they have done. Canada still has significantly lower per capita gun murders/gun violence, and most guns coming into canada are a result of guns illegally being sent across our large, unprotected border with the US.
3. As per my second link, Canada tends to have a rational approach to gun violence including mental health funding, increased background checking, restricted purchasing, and increased law enforcement.

 

[BANGS]

No, I mean, the culture needs to change so most people get a gun when they turn 21 and go through some basic tactical training. That way, when shit like this happens, we can take the guy down quickly.

I disagree. Many people aren't comfortable with guns and some may become a danger with them no matter how much training they have. It's best to leave such things to people who are ready, willing, and capable of gun ownership instead of just "most people". "Most people" are fucking stupid. I don't want the same people who leave shopping carts in parking spaces, who destroy public bathrooms, and who don't know how to use their blinker to be carrying deadly weapons personally...

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Unfortunately most of these people are mentally ill or mentally impaired by mind altering substances. Good luck solving that problem. It takes a village.

Or religion
Or patriotism
Or being loners
Or just because (like that Vegas dude)

Ban everything!

I disagree. Many people aren't comfortable with guns and some may become a danger with them no matter how much training they have. It's best to leave such things to people who are ready, willing, and capable of gun ownership instead of just "most people". "Most people" are fucking stupid. I don't want the same people who leave shopping carts in parking spaces, who destroy public bathrooms, and who don't know how to use their blinker to be carrying deadly weapons personally...

Why is our culture so fucking gross/rude/uncaring? Is it a western thing?

I wonder what most of Europe, Japan and Canada is doing right?

Acid attacks, suicide and shootings.

 

[BANGS]

Why is our culture so fucking gross/rude/uncaring? Is it a western thing?

Unfortunately no. I'm not sure what it is, but people in even 3rd world countries can be just as bad if not worse...

 

[Marshmallow]

Acid attacks, suicide and shootings.

Mass shooting with acid attacks. I got to see it.

Also what do these things have to do with gun control?

 

[Grey Specter]

False equivalence, but if we are going to go there, then look up how many murders and violent crime happens in the US and compare it with the rest of the developed world. You guys are very, very violent people, uniquely perturbed for a developed world.

You know? You might even be right. Finland for example has a shitload of guns and yet there's barely any murders. Maybe it's a combination of poverty, lack of education, lack of a social safety net and availability of guns that created that powder keg. Regardless, the US is the most violent developed country, and the gun fetishism is so deep rooted that that no amount of shootings will ever change that country.

I've stopped trying to regard this as a firearms issue and start addressing it as a unique American issue as a whole. I mean, it could be the guns, but maybe it's just what America is.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Mass shooting with acid attacks. I got to see it.

Also what do these things have to do with gun control?

I was listing what happens within each place that was mentioned and what people use when they can't acess firearms/current state of affairs. Your past post made it seem as if other countries don't have other cultural problems.

 

[Spheyr]

I've stopped trying to regard this as a firearms issue and start addressing it as a unique American issue as a whole. I mean, it could be the guns, but maybe it's just what America is.

It's never been a "firearms issue" and has always been an issue of culture. Predominantly inner city gang culture for the majority of shootings in America.

 

[Marshmallow]

I was listing what happens within each place that was mentioned and what people use when they can't acess firearms/current state of affairs. Your past post made it seem as if other countries don't have other cultural problems.

So gun control is effective? Because it's hard to kill many people acid attacks (Also what suicides have to do with anything?).

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

So gun control is effective? Because it's hard to kill many people acid attacks (Also what suicides have to do with anything?).

No I never said it was effective.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They use lorries and vans to drive through crowds and kill en mass too (which did happen in Toronto a few months back), so maybe we need more motor vehicle control while we are at it?

This is pretty relevant with our mentality as... humans.

 

[cryptoadam]

Can this thread be on topic about the shooter and not gun control. Canadians do not want unlimited gun's or every person being armed. We don't have a 2nd amendment and a right to bear arms. Just stop with all this gun talk. No Canadian is going to see this tragedy and say we need more guns and more lax gun rules.

I am curios on what the motive will be. There are some conflicting reports about his "mental health". I don't doubt he had problems, anyone who goes on a killing spree does, but what motivated him from on the outside being a smiling seemingly normal person to gunning down kids and teenagers on a Toronto street? If someone was going to go on such a spree I think they had to have been radicalized. Was it Islamic radicalization? Incel radicalization? Maybe there is a crime angle since I have read some rumors his brother was on the perphiry of some gang stuff.

Hopefully this thread will be updated with more details as the investigation continues and not a shitty GUNS thread.

 

[Spheyr]

Canadians do not want unlimited gun'

Lots of Canadians do. Tons of Canadians LOVE guns.

(Also what suicides have to do with anything?).

"Gun death" stats in the US are pumped up by including suicides with guns to make it look like our homicide rate is higher than it is.

 

[cryptoadam]

Lots of Canadians do. Tons of Canadians LOVE guns.


"Gun death" stats in the US are pumped up by including suicides with guns to make it look like our homicide rate is higher than it is.

Our politicians debate other things. I have rarely if ever heard guns, gun control, more guns etc... as a political topic.

I am sure many of us Canadians enjoy guns and hunting, I mean Canada is huge with lots of beautiful places to go hunting for sport. But we don't have this obsession with a right to own a gun. If its a debate its a fringe one.

Anyways to me all this gun talk is much like the mental health talk, just a way to distract from whatever the real motives were of the killer. I would rather discuss that then get into a gun debate especially when a lot of it is coming from an American perspective which the vast majority of Canadians do not share.

BTW I am not saying you are American, you may well be Canadian, but I think a lot of the posters in this thread that keep talking about guns are American, if I am wrong then I will stand corrected.

 

[Spheyr]

I'm a Western New York American. I know a LOT of Canadians and spent a huge chunk of my youth on the northern side of the national border, and another huge chunk on my side with Canadians.

Shit, I dated a Canadian girl long distance for a year and a half and was up at her place almost every weekend during that time in high school (Man was that expensive in gas/time) and she and I are still friends. The #1 thing she can't wait to do when she comes down to visit this/next year is get me to bundle up all my guns and take her to the range for a day because she can't get the kind of fun stuff I have there.

There are plenty of Canadians who want more red state style gun laws in Canada. You wouldn't want to dismiss them just because they're a minority group would you?

 

[cryptoadam]

I'm a Western New York American. I know a LOT of Canadians and spent a huge chunk of my youth on the northern side of the national border, and another huge chunk on my side with Canadians.

Shit, I dated a Canadian girl long distance for a year and a half and was up at her place almost every weekend during that time in high school (Man was that expensive in gas/time) and she and I are still friends. The #1 thing she can't wait to do when she comes down to visit this/next year is get me to bundle up all my guns and take her to the range for a day because she can't get the kind of fun stuff I have there.

There are plenty of Canadians who want more red state style gun laws in Canada. You wouldn't want to dismiss them just because they're a minority group would you?

I wouldn't dismiss them, but they are a fringe minority because all my life in Canada I have never heard the issue raised, nor many politicians, especially federally make it a point in their campaigns. That might be a bit of my political ignorance but I struggle to remember any major political issues about laxing gun control or getting more guns into Canadian hands.

https://canada.isidewith.com/political-parties/issues/domestic-policy/gun-control

A few parites saying they don't want more gun restrictions, but want greater penalties, and no one really seems to be calling for LESS gun control. Even under Harper a conservative he never really talked much about guns and or gun control.

But again I am being sidetracked in the thread in which I said shouldn't be sidetracked. If you want to continue the conversation we can make a thread about Canadian gun control.

I would like to keep this thread about the shooter and his motives. Gun control is a distraction. The gun was bought illegally gun control has nothing to do with this crime.

 

[Spheyr]

It's weird how you can't understand "people hold views" without jumping to "I DON'T KNOW POLITICIANS ESPOUSING THESE VIEWS SO I CAN'T SEE THIS AS A LEGITIMATE VIEW"


And gun control still has plenty to do with it - the fact that for all your gun control, you can still get illegal guns and go out and shoot up a crowd if you're so inclined.

 

[Nobody_Important]

for all your gun control, you can still get illegal guns and go out and shoot up a crowd if you're so inclined.

Yeah and I can go out and buy a kilo of coke despite it being illegal. Does that mean that cocaine shouldn't be illegal?


A burglar can break into your house if he really wanted to. Does that mean you shouldn't bother locking your doors?


The whole "well they will just get them anyway so we really shouldn't even try guys" line of thought is one of the most ridiculous talking points there is when it comes to gun control. Just because illegal guns are bought and sold doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate legal ones. Especially considering the fact that most mass shootings we have seen in recent memory used guns that were bought and sold legally.

 

[Spheyr]

Yeah and I can go out and buy a kilo of coke despite it being illegal. Does that mean that cocaine shouldn't be illegal?


A burglar can break into your house if he really wanted to. Does that mean you shouldn't bother locking your doors?


The whole "well they will just get them anyway so we really shouldn't even try guys" line of thought is one of the most ridiculous talking points there is when it comes to gun control. Just because illegal guns are bought and sold doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate legal ones. Especially considering the fact that most mass shootings we have seen in recent memory used guns that were bought and sold legally.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I could put a bag of illegal narcotics on the ground and would get the same result.



Does that mean narcotics shouldn't be regulated?

 

[Spheyr]

I could put a bag of illegal narcotics on the ground and would get the same result.



Does that mean narcotics shouldn't be regulated?

 

[cryptoadam]

It's weird how you can't understand "people hold views" without jumping to "I DON'T KNOW POLITICIANS ESPOUSING THESE VIEWS SO I CAN'T SEE THIS AS A LEGITIMATE VIEW"


And gun control still has plenty to do with it - the fact that for all your gun control, you can still get illegal guns and go out and shoot up a crowd if you're so inclined.

Calm down I never said it wasn't legitimate, I just said that its not something that for Canadians is of a big concern for us since it doesn't dominate the political discourse. Compare that to American's where the 2nd amendment is always a hot political topic.

And actually our Liberal government introduced legislation to increase gun control. Your views on guns as a right is very American and not something the vast majority of Canadians share.

And gun control has nothing to do with an illegal gun purchased and brought over from the USA. If we had no gun laws or a ban on guns it wouldn't of changed anything this guy would of still illegally got a gun trafficked from the states. Gun control is a distraction from the reasons why this guy killed all those people and I would rather focus on that then American's trying to push their view that owning a gun is a "right" when that is an alien notion to Canadians since we do not have a 2nd amendment.

If you as an American want to have every person armed then thats your countries choice.