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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


  • Total voters
    886
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Topher

Gold Member

FTC is on fire 🔥

Microsoft said that they don't want to lessen competition because they are also putting Call of Duty on Nintendo. FTC hits back by saying MS didn't even consider Nintendo as a competitor as per Microsoft's own internal documents, so this move of putting COD on Nintendo doesn't help minimizing the anti-competitiveness.

Where are these internal documents referenced?
 

feynoob

Member
Makes the fighting over this even dumber IMO. Whether you think its a good game or not it's coming to other platforms in the future. If your correct.
Fanboys don't have logic, when it comes to these stuff.
The amount of mental gymnastics they go through to defend these type of stuff is out of this world.
 

GhostOfTsu

Banned
You mean to tell me that everyone who wasn't copy pasting resetera, Hoe law, and idas... And actually looked at the documents for themselves, had a point?

giphy.gif
They also disagree that Activision, Take 2, EA and Ubisoft are the "big 4" on consoles 🤡

Who else is bigger in the console industry? Embracer and Tencent don't release any AAA. Amazon is publishing Tomb Raider.

Even MS agrees with the FTC on that one (Big 4 + Epic).
 
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noise36

Member
In what sort of clown world is Nintendo not a major competitor to both MS and Sony?

Its like trying to claim Disney+ isn't a Netflix competitor because they aim at different markets, kids and families vs mainstream.
 
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feynoob

Member
In what sort of clown world is Nintendo not a major competitor to both MS and Sony?

Its like trying to claim Disney+ isn't a Netflix competitor because they aim at different markets, kids and families vs mainstream.
This deal is trying to change that, and completely remove nintendo from the equitation.

We can agree that current switch isnt a competition to xbox and PS. But to say Nintendo isnt competing with them is insane. They are capable of making the same console as them, and can get those games on their next gen device.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Can you link me those?
Here's the quote from page 40 of the CMA submission (a document I downloaded at the time it was linked in this thread)

"163. In general, Microsoft’s internal documents track PlayStation more closely than Nintendo, with Nintendo often being absent from any internal competitive assessment.173 One Microsoft internal document assesses [].174

164. Another Microsoft internal document points to the differences in the technical strategies of Xbox/PlayStation and Nintendo consoles [].175 This internal document considers [].176"


https://assets.publishing.service.g...533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf
 

PaintTinJr

Member
This deal is trying to change that, and completely remove nintendo from the equitation.

We can agree that current switch isnt a competition to xbox and PS. But to say Nintendo isnt competing with them is insane. They are capable of making the same console as them, and can get those games on their next gen device.
But the amount of potential harm to Nintendo in that situation is not within the bounds of competition based on history of how they've failed to exceed Xbox market share with traditional high tech under the TV competing systems such as the Gamecube and WiiU that fit the criteria, so the point is still moot,
 

feynoob

Member
Here's the quote from page 40 of the CMA submission (a document I downloaded at the time it was linked in this thread)

"163. In general, Microsoft’s internal documents track PlayStation more closely than Nintendo, with Nintendo often being absent from any internal competitive assessment.173 One Microsoft internal document assesses [].174

164. Another Microsoft internal document points to the differences in the technical strategies of Xbox/PlayStation and Nintendo consoles [].175 This internal document considers [].176"


https://assets.publishing.service.g...533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf
That document highlights about our urgements here, which was 3rd party.

165. The CMA has also received evidence from the Parties showing that [].177 This suggests that Xbox and PlayStation are closer substitutes to each other than to Nintendo Switch.
Not that MS doesnt consider them a competitor.

Switch doesnt have the same 3rd party games as Xbox one and PS4, which explains the absence of nintendo from those discussion.

Which is backed by this document.
162. The CMA considered the Parties’ submissions in relation to Nintendo being a successful platform that does not offer CoD and believes that this is because Nintendo generally offers a differentiated gaming experience to Xbox and PlayStation.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Here's the quote from page 40 of the CMA submission (a document I downloaded at the time it was linked in this thread)

"163. In general, Microsoft’s internal documents track PlayStation more closely than Nintendo, with Nintendo often being absent from any internal competitive assessment.173 One Microsoft internal document assesses [].174

164. Another Microsoft internal document points to the differences in the technical strategies of Xbox/PlayStation and Nintendo consoles [].175 This internal document considers [].176"


https://assets.publishing.service.g...533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf
Market segmentation. People willfully ignoring this aspect, are arguing in bad faith.

No one (honestly debating) is saying that Nintendo is not par of the market. It just means Nintendo in not competing in the same market segment as PS/Xbox.
 

feynoob

Member
But the amount of potential harm to Nintendo in that situation is not within the bounds of competition based on history of how they've failed to exceed Xbox market share with traditional high tech under the TV competing systems such as the Gamecube and WiiU that fit the criteria, so the point is still moot,
The point is not moot. Nintendo saw huge success with switch. And with steam deck being able to run games like call of duty mw2, its possible that nintendo can replicate that success with their switch 2 device.

As long as steam deck exist, Nintendo is in the game.
 

Fredrik

Member
Embracer just got the IP for extremely cheap and they're already finding someone else to publish it. They have no ambition of becoming a big publisher.

Square is a big company but as a publisher they are like Bethesda.
Amazon? Let’s see if they’re pulling some ”western norms” strings.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
The point is not moot. Nintendo saw huge success with switch. And with steam deck being able to run games like call of duty mw2, its possible that nintendo can replicate that success with their switch 2 device.

As long as steam deck exist, Nintendo is in the game.
Even if they can replicate that success with a switch 2 it isn't going to have a storage system (or size) to rival the series, never mind the PS5 so it won't be competing for CoD users when next-gen enhancements hit. The game installs on Switch2 will still be in the DVD size range or less via carts or download, and its main focus will still be Japanese commuters they want to sell many games to digitally on microsd card storage.

Steam Deck has sold 1M units based on something I read on Gaf recently, and it won't get a mainline CoD in coming years to compete with PS5/Series versions if the new storage system is utilised as we expect. The Steam Deck competes with last-gen, because unlike a desktop PC that can upgrade as needed, the Deck and many Laptops are fixed in critical performance areas,
 
You mean to tell me that everyone who wasn't copy pasting resetera, Hoe law, and idas... And actually looked at the documents for themselves, had a point?

giphy.gif

How good of a point will any of it have been if you all actually turn out wrong in the end once all the final decisions are in? I really don't believe any major regulator has taken Sony's claims as seriously as some have believed throughout this whole process. Everything that has gone to a final decision thus far has gone in the deal's favor. What some seem to be celebrating are delays at best. What if the CMA and European Commission approves the deal with no conditions? What then? It all rests on the FTC, right? A reminder that nearly every company currently engaged with the FTC in the same internal ALJ proceedings has closed their transactions. There's also a significant Supreme Court case, with direct implications for these very FTC ALJ proceedings, that has already been argued before the court and is due for a decision May or June next year.

Perhaps another time, in another decade, with different antitrust laws and a different Supreme Court makeup, the FTC might have prevailed in blocking this deal.

And remember I said this part; some will celebrate when they hear that the FTC files for a preliminary injunction in federal court (a preliminary injunction the FTC would likely win and an appeals court would likely affirm 6-7 months later) without understanding the kind of injunction they've filed for. The FTC wouldn't be requesting an injunction to permanently block the deal as illegal (Microsoft would welcome that, as it's exactly the fight they want to have in a federal court), but instead an injunction to halt, and thus delay/prevent, Microsoft and Activision Blizzard from closing while administrative proceedings can be allowed to take place and conclude. In other words, such a decision in the FTC's favor wouldn't be a sign that they've somehow won in their effort to block the deal and so it's over.

Some would view such a preliminary injunction as a sign of the confidence from FTC. When in fact it would only reinforce the FTC's lack of confidence in its ability to truly block the deal as illegal via Federal District Court. Therefore, that is why it could make sense for them to try for such a lower risk/higher reward maneuver that could help them stall for more time with a significantly reduced chance of a major blowback in the other direction. However, Federal Judges carry significant power. Such a could very easily carry a major risk if brought against a corporation with the means and willingness to fight like Microsoft clearly is.

And not a single bit of any of my hypothetical (but strongly suspected) preliminary injunction theory would protect the FTC from the impending Supreme Court decision in Axon Enterprises vs FTC in May or June next year.

TLDR - The ball isn't in the FTC's court and they know it. They're praying for an inside straight delivered via CMA and/or The European Commission. I don't think they get it. The Supreme Court decision in the Axon case presents a game over scenario for FTC. Doesn't mean Microsoft wins the moment the Supreme Court rules against the FTC (and they likely will), but it would mean Microsoft is ultimately going to win when the Supreme Court rules against the FTC in the Axon case.
 

Pelta88

Member
How good of a point will any of it have been if you all actually turn out wrong in the end once all the final decisions are in?

I think this encapsulates the two sides of the debate that's gone on for the past 339 pages.

You and others seem primarily concerned with who "wins." While myself and others are absorbing as much info as possible and taking advantage of the documented peak behind the proverbial curtain. For us this is an incredible opportunity to learn.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Market segmentation. People willfully ignoring this aspect, are arguing in bad faith.

No one (honestly debating) is saying that Nintendo is not par of the market. It just means Nintendo in not competing in the same market segment as PS/Xbox.

And yet some are pretending that is what is being argued repeatedly. There is no point talking to these people about it any longer as they are entirely disingenuous.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
I think this encapsulates the two sides of the debate that's gone on for the past 339 pages.

You and others seem primarily concerned with who "wins." While myself and others are absorbing as much info as possible and taking advantage of the documented peak behind the proverbial curtain. For us this is an incredible opportunity to learn.
At least to me there are two fascinating things .

1. How right/wrong my predictions will be.
2. The enjoyment of seeing these companies fighting each other with PR/Marketing and actual games/services.
 
I think this encapsulates the two sides of the debate that's gone on for the past 339 pages.

You and others seem primarily concerned with who "wins." While myself and others are absorbing as much info as possible and taking advantage of the documented peak behind the proverbial curtain. For us this is an incredible opportunity to learn.

As a learning opportunity that makes total sense. That said, I don't see it as a who wins, but what's lawful under the established antitrust laws and what's unlawful. And on those grounds, the current market situation being as it is makes it very difficult to come to the conclusion that this deal is illegal or unlawful, which is why I expect it to go through. When many argue that the deal should fail, which many in this thread are, they're doing so not based on any genuine belief that the deal destroys competition or puts playstation in any real danger, but solely on the basis that they don't want Xbox becoming any better or more competitive next to Playstation.
 
Market segmentation. People willfully ignoring this aspect, are arguing in bad faith.

No one (honestly debating) is saying that Nintendo is not par of the market. It just means Nintendo in not competing in the same market segment as PS/Xbox.
The market segment argument is bunk. It didn't exist before this deal was reviewed by the FTC/CMA. Not one person argued Xbox was only in 2nd place in consoles. No one argued that the XSS was a 'high performance console' targeting 'serious gamers'. The NPD tracks Nintendo consoles sales right along Xbox and PlayStation. Most importantly offering unique features doesn't remove you from the competitive market. Just like PlayStation isn't in a unique monopolistic market because they are the only console offering VR. It's all silly.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
When many argue that the deal should fail, which many in this thread are, they're doing so not based on any genuine belief that the deal destroys competition or puts playstation in any real danger, but solely on the basis that they don't want Xbox becoming any better or more competitive next to Playstation.
This is again persecution complex speaking, you are being quite disingenuous here. People do want to see Xbox more competitive, but they want competition to work for it. Disrupting the market by buying the two largest publishers while announcing they want to buy more is competing by content starving the competition opening up a massive checkbox courtesy of their monopoly like status in other big industries. At some point they will want to make a large profit of this investment and that is when the pain may start for users in earnest.

Do they want to buy Rare and Bungie? Do they want to buy plenty of developers, start new studios, hire and poach talent? They have been doing all that. Manage those studios well and have a better eye at content production and prioritisation and grow bigger that way. It is ridiculous how they compare it to Sony buying Psygnosis in 1993 which is the only “big” publisher acquisition they made (excluding Bungie, but then again it is not a like for like).
 
It's only bad when Sony does it, the hypocrisy is out of the charts.

Medium
Stalker 2
High on Life
Scorn

I could go on but apparently those games don't count, only Final Fantasy VII 👍

Are you honestly saying that list of games is anywhere close to FF7 or whatever number the latest one will be? Plus those Xbox games tend to have a console exclusive window of a few months or six months and then they hit PlayStation. On the flip side the games will have a window of complete PlayStation exclusivity, then will hit PC, then maybe a year later or more, might hit Xbox. To compare them as if they are similar in scope or effect is as silly as if I were to say Sony buying Bungie and MS buying ABK are the same thing.

It’s funny that some people are against this deal because they believe it might maybe one day in the future potentially give Microsoft an advantage in the market when in reality Sony has a massive advantage in the market right now that makes it impossible for Microsoft to compete without overspending on everything. The reason that the games Xbox tends to get timed exclusive deals for are smaller in impact and those deals are very short is because the money it would cost to sign deals like Sony does, wouldn’t be worth it.

JuSt BuY gAmEz!!! people say, instead of buying studios. That doesn’t make financial sense. GrOw OrGaNiCaLlY!! They are doing that, too. They’ve made new studios and purchased devs they had been working exclusively with. Plus studios actively looking to be acquired. People tend to conveniently forget that ABK was looking to be bought.
 
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reksveks

Member

In a preliminary analysis, the Commission attempts to define the product market by investigating whether two products belong to the same market. It also tries to determine the geographic market by producing an overview of the breakdown of the market shares held by the parties in question and by their competitors, the prices charged and any price differentials.

Once the product market and the geographic market have been defined, the Commission carries out a more detailed analysis based on the concept of substitutability. Firms subject to a competitive system must respect two major constraints: demand substitution and supply substitution. A market is competitive if customers can choose between a range of products with similar characteristics and if the supplier does not face obstacles to supplying products or services on that market.

The substitutability criterion enables research to be targeted on any substitute products, making it possible to define the relevant product market and geographic market with a greater degree of certainty. Only in the final stage is the relevant market analysed to determine the degree of integration in the EU’s markets.

The Commission therefore carries out an assessment of demand-side substitutability (i.e. of customers) and supply-side substitutability (i.e. of suppliers). In the first case, the question is whether customers for the product in question can readily switch to a similar product in response to a small but permanent price increase (of between 5% and 10%). In the second case, the question is whether other suppliers can readily switch production to the relevant products and sell them on the relevant market.

Just interesting to read how EC starts/defines 'relevant markets' when looking at anti-trust. There is more there but doesn't seem to be very black or white.
 

Three

Member
Are you honestly saying that list of games is anywhere close to FF7 or whatever number the latest one will be? Plus those Xbox games tend to have a console exclusive window of a few months or six months and then they hit PlayStation. On the flip side the games will have a window of complete PlayStation exclusivity, then will hit PC, then maybe a year later or more, might hit Xbox. To compare them as if they are similar in scope or effect is as silly as if I were to say Sony buying Bungie and MS buying ABK are the same thing.

It’s funny that some people are against this deal because they believe it might maybe one day in the future potentially give Microsoft an advantage in the market when in reality Sony has a massive advantage in the market right now that makes it impossible for Microsoft to compete without overspending on everything. The reason that the games Xbox tends to get timed exclusive deals for are smaller in impact and those deals are very short is because the money it would cost to sign deals like Sony does, wouldn’t be worth it.

JuSt BuY gAmEz!!! people say, instead of buying studios. That doesn’t make financial sense. GrOw OrGaNiCaLlY!! They are doing that, too. They’ve made new studios and purchased devs they had been working exclusively with. Plus studios actively looking to be acquired. People tend to conveniently forget that ABK was looking to be bought.
That list is just the list of recent games MS pays exclusivity for gamepass content and its budget matches. Final Fantasy is from a 2015 deal, let that sink in. Meanwhile people ignore the countless games xbox has paid exclusivity for. PUBG was not "smaller in impact" than FF7R, look at crisis core sales on xbox vs PUBGs popularity on PS.
Dead Rising 3 full exclusive to this day because they took publishing rights, Dead Rising 4 1 year exclusive deal. Tomb Raider 1 year exclusive from the same time as FF7R. People just like to ignore everything though.

impossible for Microsoft to compete without overspending on everything

Riiiight, as if spending $70B, 45% above market value is the less impossible, less overspending alternative to funding games.
 
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reksveks

Member
Ha! Reads like the PS5 10% price hike in many territories with absolutely zero impact removes Xbox as a substitute.
Yeah, it's a weird one (same thought entered my head) but think the key words in that question is 'can readily' and think that gives them a bit of leeway.

the question is whether customers for the product in question can readily switch to a similar product in response to a small but permanent price increase (of between 5% and 10%)
 
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Menzies

Banned
Yeah, it's a weird one (same thought entered my head) but think the key words in that question is 'can readily' and think that gives them a bit of leeway.
"Can readily" theoretically, but evidentially don't. Guess this is why the lawyers get to name their price.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Are you honestly saying that list of games is anywhere close to FF7 or whatever number the latest one will be? Plus those Xbox games tend to have a console exclusive window of a few months or six months and then they hit PlayStation. On the flip side the games will have a window of complete PlayStation exclusivity, then will hit PC, then maybe a year later or more, might hit Xbox. To compare them as if they are similar in scope or effect is as silly as if I were to say Sony buying Bungie and MS buying ABK are the same thing.

It’s funny that some people are against this deal because they believe it might maybe one day in the future potentially give Microsoft an advantage in the market when in reality Sony has a massive advantage in the market right now that makes it impossible for Microsoft to compete without overspending on everything. The reason that the games Xbox tends to get timed exclusive deals for are smaller in impact and those deals are very short is because the money it would cost to sign deals like Sony does, wouldn’t be worth it.

JuSt BuY gAmEz!!! people say, instead of buying studios. That doesn’t make financial sense. GrOw OrGaNiCaLlY!! They are doing that, too. They’ve made new studios and purchased devs they had been working exclusively with. Plus studios actively looking to be acquired. People tend to conveniently forget that ABK was looking to be bought.

This is an amazing post! Nails it perfectly.

Microsoft have been fighting to try and find A to double A rated gems in an ettempt to find appealing games for their useebase and game pass subscribers. They secure 3 to 6 month exclusivity deals while we actually know for a fact that Sony are securing year long and more commonly now 2 year or more exclusivity deals with terms that excludes the games being able to come to game pass or Xbox at all.

Where is FF7? Final Fantasy XVI is a 2 year exclusive isn't it?

To even imply that Microsoft is even close to doing the same kinds of deals is Sony is dishonest and surely we can all accept this and admit it?

We are talking huge triple A games like resident evil being excluded from game pass thanks to sonys contracts.

I'm sure we will see even more games in 2023 announced for playstation with similar terms.

Hopefully this purchase highlights it more and puts pressure on studios to be able to argue for better terms with Sony, but I doubt it in the short term atleast.

I'm not saying Microsoft are some white Knight and don't do marketing deals, the very thing people in this thread are asking for Microsoft to do but to say they are anyway on the same calibre, for the same huge triple A franchises is disingenuous. What is it and why is MS different?
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Are you honestly saying that list of games is anywhere close to FF7 or whatever number the latest one will be? Plus those Xbox games tend to have a console exclusive window of a few months or six months and then they hit PlayStation. On the flip side the games will have a window of complete PlayStation exclusivity, then will hit PC, then maybe a year later or more, might hit Xbox. To compare them as if they are similar in scope or effect is as silly as if I were to say Sony buying Bungie and MS buying ABK are the same thing.
The last public information is that PlayStation's exclusivity period for FFVII Remake is over.

Is it Sony's responsibility to force SquareEnix to release their game on every console out there? It is up to SquareEnix: if they find it financially and operationally viable to port their games to Xbox, they will. If they don't find it financially viable, they won't. Why does Sony have to do anything with that?

For the longest time, Sony was blamed for keeping Persona exclusive. Then it turns out that Persona never was exclusive, and they just didn't want to port those games to Xbox until they got a bag of cash to guarantee a positive ROI before the release.
 

Three

Member
This is an amazing post! Nails it perfectly.

Microsoft have been fighting to try and find A to double A rated gems in an ettempt to find appealing games for their useebase and game pass subscribers. They secure 3 to 6 month exclusivity deals while we actually know for a fact that Sony are securing year long and more commonly now 2 year or more exclusivity deals with terms that excludes the games being able to come to game pass or Xbox at all.

Where is FF7? Final Fantasy XVI is a 2 year exclusive isn't it?

To even imply that Microsoft is even close to doing the same kinds of deals is Sony is dishonest and surely we can all accept this and admit it?

I'm sure we will see even more games in 2023 announced for playstation with similar terms.

Hopefully this purchase highlights it more and puts pressure on studios to be able to argue for better terms with Sony, but I doubt it in the short term atleast.

I'm not saying Microsoft are some white Knight and don't do marketing deals, the very thing people in this thread are asking for Microsoft to do but to say they are anyway on the same calibre, for the same huge triple A franchises is disingenuous. What is it and why is MS different?
I just gave examples of permanent and 1 yr exclusivity deals by MS that outnumber PS' on more popular titles. Didn't even need to include Plants vs Zombies Garden warfare or Titanfall 1.

Instead of celebrating the fact that third parties would no longer succumb to >6 months exclusivity to exclude PS, we are pretending MS are doing us all a favour. If xbox was in a position to negotiate greater than 6 months they would and they have.

the very thing people in this thread are asking for Microsoft to do but to say they are anyway on the same calibre, for the same huge triple A franchises is disingenuous. What is it and why is MS different?

We are talking huge triple A games like resident evil being excluded from game pass thanks to sonys contracts.
You think excluding a release on PS is on the same calibre as a marketing agreement that gets right of first refusal on a sub? You talk about being disingenuous but you're now comparing exclusivity with a game that wasn't even exclusive at all. You could still buy and play RE8, PS owners can also only buy and play RE8.

You think MS marketing contracts don't prevent PS+ release? That RE8 contract is over anyhow, why is it still not on gamepass do you think?
 

Ronin_7

Member
Microsoft is as shitty as SONY when it comes to deals, heck the whole shitty deal Stuff intensified in the 360 era. I remember messing around my PS Triple friends about getting stuff first.

Sony now does the same shit ass deals but so is MS doing tons.

Anyone defending either company or consolidation is a loser period.
 

Menzies

Banned
The last public information is that PlayStation's exclusivity period for FFVII Remake is over.

Is it Sony's responsibility to force SquareEnix to release their game on every console out there? It is up to SquareEnix: if they find it financially and operationally viable to port their games to Xbox, they will. If they don't find it financially viable, they won't. Why does Sony have to do anything with that?

For the longest time, Sony was blamed for keeping Persona exclusive. Then it turns out that Persona never was exclusive, and they just didn't want to port those games to Xbox until they got a bag of cash to guarantee a positive ROI before the release.
You think Square somehow believe that Diofield Chronicles has more brand power and footing in the Xbox community as a new IP over generational best-selling franchise Final Fantasy?

Even if it were true that the deal with Sony has run it’s course and they don’t believe they’ll have a ‘positive ROI’ from porting costs, doesn’t this further highlight why Microsoft needs to aggressively compete?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
The last public information is that PlayStation's exclusivity period for FFVII Remake is over.

Is it Sony's responsibility to force SquareEnix to release their game on every console out there? It is up to SquareEnix: if they find it financially and operationally viable to port their games to Xbox, they will. If they don't find it financially viable, they won't. Why does Sony have to do anything with that?

For the longest time, Sony was blamed for keeping Persona exclusive. Then it turns out that Persona never was exclusive, and they just didn't want to port those games to Xbox until they got a bag of cash to guarantee a positive ROI before the release.

Isn't that part of sonys strategy? Pay for such a long exclusivity deal and keep Microsoft at a smaller userbase so that it becomes more or less economically redundant to even bother releasing the game on the platform. Its basically using your market strength to keep your competition in an unwinnable position and its clearly working.

No?
I just gave examples of permanent and 1 yr exclusivity deals by MS that outnumber PS' on more popular titles. Didn't even need to include Plants vs Zombies Garden warfare or Titanfall 1.

Instead of celebrating the fact that third parties would no longer succumb to >6 months exclusivity to exclude PS, we are pretending MS are doing us all a favour. If xbox was in a position to negotiate greater than 6 months they would and they have.




You think excluding a release on PS is on the same calibre as a marketing agreement that gets right of first refusal on a sub? You talk about being disingenuous but you're now comparing exclusivity with a game that wasn't even exclusive at all. You could still buy and play RE8, PS owners can also only buy and play RE8.

You think MS marketing contracts don't prevent PS+ release? That RE8 contract is over anyhow, why is it still not on gamepass do you think?

I didn't see the post, apologies. Any games in the last couple of years with those kinds of deals on xbox?

You know like Sony is doing right now with forspoken, ffxvi, ff7 etc.
 
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That list is just the list of recent games MS pays exclusivity for gamepass content and its budget matches. Final Fantasy is from a 2015 deal, let that sink in. Meanwhile people ignore the countless games xbox has paid exclusivity for. PUBG was not "smaller in impact" than FF7R, look at crisis core sales on xbox vs PUBGs popularity on PS.
Dead Rising 3 full exclusive to this day because they took publishing rights, Dead Rising 4 1 year exclusive deal. Tomb Raider 1 year exclusive from the same time as FF7R. People just like to ignore everything though.



Riiiight, as if spending $70B, 45% above market value is the less impossible, less overspending alternative to funding games.

Why would we care about anything but recent? Why do I care what the Don Mattrick lead Xbox team did with Dead Rising 3 at the launch of Xbox One? That’s not the market we are in right now. Also your Tomb Raider example just proves my point. Supposedly $100,000,000 for that one game, which made no difference. And I don’t care if the FF7R deal was originally signed in 2005, they extended the window, and the game still isn’t on Xbox, even though a next gen port was made. But Dead Rising 3!!!! 😆

That last part is funny. You don’t think owning ABK and getting all the profits from all the games is a better investment long term than massively overspending for one off games here and there? 😬
 

GHG

Member
Isn't that part of sonys strategy? Pay for such a long exclusivity deal and keep Microsoft at a smaller userbase so that it becomes more or less economically redundant to even bother releasing the game on the platform. Its basically using your market strength to keep your competition in an unwinnable position and its clearly working.

No?


I didn't see the post, apologies. Any games in the last couple of years with those kinds of deals on xbox?

You know like Sony is doing right now with forspoken, ffxvi, ff7 etc.

You think Microsoft's console userbase is smaller because of games like final fantasy and forespoken? The way that people attempt to absolve Microsoft of accountability and responsibility for their current market market position really is something.

It's a new year and there's still the same crap disingenuous arguments about timed exclusives in a thread about one of the largest acquisitions in history (across any industry)? Really?

Lina Khan says happy new year. Hope everyone has fun.
 
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The last public information is that PlayStation's exclusivity period for FFVII Remake is over.

Is it Sony's responsibility to force SquareEnix to release their game on every console out there? It is up to SquareEnix: if they find it financially and operationally viable to port their games to Xbox, they will. If they don't find it financially viable, they won't. Why does Sony have to do anything with that?

For the longest time, Sony was blamed for keeping Persona exclusive. Then it turns out that Persona never was exclusive, and they just didn't want to port those games to Xbox until they got a bag of cash to guarantee a positive ROI before the release.

So your grand logic is that the exclusivity window is over, but the Xbox user base just wouldn’t support the game enough to justify the cost of porting… yet SE has no problem releasing other games on Xbox. Hell didnt Xbox get FF7 Crisis Core 😆 So the PSP prequel port is viable but the port of the actual game is not 🤔

Even if your delusional logic was actually correct, it just goes to show the effect Sonys position in the market is having on competition. If the fan base for FF7 on Xbox isn’t strong enough to warrant a port, that would surely be a direct result of Sony paying to keep games off the platform. Games that it is much easier for Sony to sign deals for because of their position.

Of course that’s ignoring the fact that Sony signed a deal for that game and multiple other SE games to keep them off Xbox. Are you implying Sony is just signing deals for games they don’t even need to sign deals for because SE isn’t going to make the games for Xbox anyway? Again, 😆
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
You think Microsoft's console userbase is smaller because of games like final fantasy and forespoken? The way that people attempt to absolve Microsoft of accountability and responsibility for their current market market position really is something.

It's a new year and there's still the same crap disingenuous arguments about timed exclusives in a thread about one of the largest acquisitions in history (across any industry)? Really?

Lina Khan says happy new year. Hope everyone has fun.

No you are right to an extent. Microsoft has a lot to answer for, for their out put and I do feel they need to look in the mirror and make sure that is completely fixed in 2023 and beyond.

I'm not blaming Sony for all of microsofts issues at all. I'm just saying they are definitely in the best position to continue to beat Microsoft down.

Microsoft is on the ropes and they need some strong first party haymaker to compete with Sony but that won't be a KO. This is a long competitive battle and let's see how it goes.

I hope this purchase gives us plenty more times of fun as I honestly don't cate which way it goes. There will be great salt to witness on all sides for plenty of time. I'm glad I'm not invested in that tbh. I just want to see some good games this year.

Happy new year. 😀
 
Isn't that part of sonys strategy? Pay for such a long exclusivity deal and keep Microsoft at a smaller userbase so that it becomes more or less economically redundant to even bother releasing the game on the platform. Its basically using your market strength to keep your competition in an unwinnable position and its clearly working.

No?

ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Most of the negativity around this deal seems to stem from an emotional attachment to Sony and a fear of the status quo being disrupted, not any actual fear for consumers or the market. The positions people claim to fear that Microsoft might maybe one day potentially reach, are positions Sony already enjoys but these same people aren’t concerned about that.
 
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