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[RayMaker]

Ergo, it'll be more difficult to program for than PS4. Teh powah of choice of words.

And I've read about stories here of devs not being happy with the 360 because of its tiny cache of eDRAM. That'll shouldn't be a problem any more however.



Yes they did.

is an mach fusion bad because its slower then a electronic razor?

is a knife worse then a grater at choping ginger really finely because its slower

being more difficult to program for the PS4 is not a bad thing it just means x1 requires a little more work.

I bet the PS3 required a lot more work , so the the situation regarding this topic seems trivual

 

[Lambda Pie]

is an mach fusion bad because its slower then a electronic razor?

is a knife worse then a grater at choping ginger really finely because its slower

being more difficult to program for the PS4 is not a bad thing it just means x1 requires a little more work.

spinning harder than Taz.

 

[i-Lo]

spinning harder than Taz.

Being a warrior is a full time job.

 

[JCreasy]

I saw Killzone 4 a few months ago and said damn, that's next gen.

Today I saw a cable box that needs 3 GB of ram alone just to operate. And I guess an HD version of CoD...finally.

WORD!

 

[GoofsterStud]

Technically we're still waiting on Sony to show all their cards.

I'm not particularly trusting them at their word even more so considering they've lied before when they said they would let Microsoft make the first move and turned around and went for it themselves.

To be fair, nobody predicted Microsoft would wait so long, or the news would be met with such negativity.

 

[Skyzard]

It's partly why I'm purposefully avoiding their console.

 

[googleplex]

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

This needs to be quoted every time someone says power doesn't matter.

 

[SneakyStephan]

is an mach fusion bad because its slower then a electronic razor?

is a knife worse then a grater at choping ginger really finely because its slower

being more difficult to program for the PS4 is not a bad thing it just means x1 requires a little more work.

I bet the PS3 required a lot more work , so the the situation regarding this topic seems trivual

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

This needs to be quoted every time someone says power doesn't matter.

Not to mention the MGS2 E3 trailer which on graphics alone convinced everyone the Dreamcast was being firmly left behind.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I'm guessing that a wider bus for the eSRAM, would require more die space.

 

[Loofy]

I feel like this whole time the xbox was just a 10 year effort by MS to make WebTV work. And now that theyre at the point where they may(or may not) get away with offering the minimum in the graphical department, they can now focus all their efforts on the 'tv experience.'

 

[MrCookiepants]

The Forza trailer was CG, right?

 

[Kaako]

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

PREACH. It is an obvious fact that power is very important.

 

[inm8num2]

I'm guessing AMD isn't too enthused with Microsoft's statement here.

 

[Klocker]

The Forza trailer was CG, right?

no. gameplay assets

 

[zoukka]

no. gameplay assets

What does that mean? You could make a CG move with modern racing game car assets.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/05/21/interview-with-xbox-ones-chief-product-officer-marc-whitten.aspx



This interview confirms that 5 GB RAM are for games and 3 for the OS. At around the 10 min mark.

 

[krioto]

I'm not particularly trusting them at their word even more so considering they've lied before when they said they would let Microsoft make the first move and turned around and went for it themselves.

So, they 'lied to us' - is this all you've got left?

 

[KidBeta]

What does that mean? You could make a CG move with modern racing game car assets.

It means that the game was running in replay or photoshoot mode like Forz/GT on the 360/PS3 not actually playing the game.

 

[RayMaker]

Being a warrior is a full time job.

really? I wouldent know.

its normally warriors themselves who say stuff like that

care to talk sensibly with any logical comments?

 

[zoukka]

It means that the game was running in replay or photoshoot mode like Forz/GT on the 360/PS3 not actually playing the game.

Ok se we can't make any judgement on how the final game looks beyond "a lot worse" if that was indeed "photomode".

 

[Skyzard]

Assets could mean like models or artwork. Means barely anything.

 

[abadguy]

Ok se we can't make any judgement on how the final game looks beyond "a lot worse" if that was indeed "photomode".

Obviously XBO games won't be a huge leap over the 360 graphically.

Spoiler

derp

 

[JimiNutz]

Less power would be fine if this came out years ago...
I bought a 360 three months after launch. Ive been waiting what, seven years for a new console?

If this came out 4 or 5 years into the 360s lifespan then fine, but Ive waited so long that I need a big upgrade in power.

Only way this works is if One is significantly cheaper than PS4, like 100-150 $/£/€ cheaper....

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Less power would be fine if this came out years ago...
I bought a 360 three months after launch. Ive been waiting what, seven years for a new console?

If this came out 4 or 5 years into the 360s lifespan then fine, but Ive waited so long that I need a big upgrade in power.

Only way this works is if One is significantly cheaper than PS4, like 100-150 $/£/€ cheaper....

and it won't be because of kinect

 

[DC R1D3R]

Less power would be fine if this came out years ago...
I bought a 360 three months after launch. Ive been waiting what, seven years for a new console?

If this came out 4 or 5 years into the 360s lifespan then fine, but Ive waited so long that I need a big upgrade in power.

Only way this works is if One is significantly cheaper than PS4, like 100-150 $/£/€ cheaper....

It's the only way.

 

[speculawyer]

I may purposefully not buy this console. I assumed I'd get one and I probably will if some must-have exclusive sells me. But right now, I'm not feeling it.

 

[dragonflys545]

It's the only way.

With the new kinect in every console, doubt this will happen.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Less power would be fine if this came out years ago...
I bought a 360 three months after launch. Ive been waiting what, seven years for a new console?

If this came out 4 or 5 years into the 360s lifespan then fine, but Ive waited so long that I need a big upgrade in power.

Only way this works is if One is significantly cheaper than PS4, like 100-150 $/£/€ cheaper....

People hoping for Xbox One to be cheaper are in for a rude awakening. Unless Microsoft is going to subsidize the hell out of it and eat a massive loss that's not going to happen.

ESRAM isn't cheap, Kinect certainly isn't cheap. These are all components that will push the Xbox One's BOM to pricing parity with PS4 or above.

 

[BobTheFork]

being more difficult to program for the PS4 is not a bad thing it just means x1 requires a little more work.

I bet the PS3 required a lot more work , so the the situation regarding this topic seems trivual

It was a big drawback for the ps3. If you don't think so watch Sony talk about specifically that at their presser. They basically had to apologize for being harder to program on.

 

[Have a Nice Day]

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

Ta for the good post.

 

[Ravage]

So they really went ahead and made a weak sauce console huh? Can't fucking believe they are wasting 3 gig of ram on the OS.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Yeah, it was pretty noticeable in Ghosts, Forza and the little snippets of Quantum Break.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed, MS have some great IP and to see them at their full next gen potential would have been a sight to behold.

Ah well.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

So glad someone said this. People acting like it forebodes the future. The most powerful console has won herp derp therefore PS4 won't lol!!.

The only positive of being less powerful, are probably lower cost and less heating issues.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Just came to post a second time in this thread..

When I bought my 360 initially, in the summer of 2006, my computer had, IIRC, a mid-range Radeon HD2000 series GPU and a 64-bit Athlon. I was blown away by the hardware and the graphics it could put on the screen at the resolution it could. The Gears of War trailer was jaw dropping. I had to get it. Upgrading my PC to such a level would be too costly, the 360's value proposition was incredible in comparison, and I got a huge kick out of it in the following 7 years. I currently own 49 games for it (with about a dozen unplayed, but still.) That is the effect of good hardware on my gaming and purchasing decisions.

Today I have a PC with a quad core Athlon II CPU and a Radeon 7770 graphics card. I look at the Ghosts and Quantum Shift video and I literally can't see ANYTHING that my current PC can't handle at my monitor resolution (1440x900), and no games that I'm dying to get. Franchises I loved for the 360 have either completed their saga, gone to shit or got canned.

So here I am, looking at my options, and the XBOX ONE sits there with an unknown price tag - and even so I can not justify it. It's value to me is zero, nothing. I'll get nothing out of it no matter what the price tag because I can already have what I want of it for free from another platform I currently own.

To make the matters worse, its anti-consumer features have left a terrible taste in my mouth.

If I could look at it and go 'WOW, I can't reasonably expect to own a PC with those capabilities for a couple of years yet.' MAYBE I could get over all the bullshit.

But with this? For this?

No. MS, I'm skipping on your next console.

 

[Monty Mole]

Don Mattrick said at the end of the conference that Black Tusk is working on some amazing looking stuff. So why didn't they show it at the reveal then!?

Whilst Killzone bores me to death, it's the only game that's made me say 'wow' graphically. It was truly impressive and had the next-gen vibe. Everything else at the Sony conference, and all the games and Microsoft's conference yesterday, all made me think current-gen upscaled with a few extra effects.

For me though, I'm not sure I care all that much. I'm excited that both companies are investing in new IP, and the added competition will see a ton of big games on the way over the next few years.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

What's the estimate of the ps4 usage of Ram for system and apps?

 

[Woo-Fu]

Isn't it safe to say that Microsoft "purposefully" does everything they do? Individuals do things by accident, do entire corporations?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

Excellent post sir.. excellent post.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Isn't it safe to say that Microsoft "purposefully" does everything they do? Individuals do things by accident, do entire corporations?

More often than you might think.

 

[Piggus]

What's the estimate of the ps4 usage of Ram for system and apps?

1 GB

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Neither PS4 nor One are using the pinnacle of hardware. Both are noticeably more powerful than their predecessors, but neither are using anything approaching high end tech.

The differences between One and PS4 games will end up being marginal in all cases outside of 1st party endeavors. While hardware power can be used as an easy way to differentiate between generations, it's importance is overstated.

Yes it is important, and yes we'd all take Pixar/ILM caliber 3D if we could have it for $299. But we can't. So, especially in the modern era, the impetus is on reaching a higher bar without the console bursting into flames.

I don't think the hardware power of PS4 or One will be a limiter on appeal. Until that lack of power starts hindering development. Depending on who you ask they might say they already have.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Neither PS4 nor One are using the pinnacle of hardware. Both are noticeably more powerful than their predecessors, but neither are using anything approaching high end tech.

The differences between One and PS4 games will end up being marginal in all cases outside of 1st party endeavors. While hardware power can be used as an easy way to differentiate between generations, it's importance is overstated.

Yes it is important, and yes we'd all take Pixar/ILM caliber 3D if we could have it for $299. But we can't. So, especially in the modern era, the impetus is on reaching a higher bar without the console bursting into flames.

I don't think the hardware power of PS4 or One will be a limiter on appeal. Until that lack of power starts hindering development. Depending on who you ask they might say they already have.

Well said. This is undoubtedly the main side effect of this generations extraordinary length compared to previous generations.

The games shown, especially those by didn't look particularly great. They lacked the wow factor that was there at the start of this generation.

 

[wsippel]

But 5 billion transistors. 5!

Roughly two of which are eSRAM, apparently. Huge waste of die space and power consumption if true.

 

[Aostia]

There is still a massive difference between the leaked specs and Wii U so I don't know why people are saying its now closer.



Kinect

Well, it's closer compared to PS4.
Btw, doens't the PS4 have an Eye toy mandatory bundled too?

 

[Klocker]

Roughly two of which are eSRAM, apparently. Huge waste of die space and power consumption if true.

it's used to keep feeding the processors while using DDR3

http://majornelson.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-architecture-panel/

 

[Vermillion]

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

So... the advertisement of power is more important, you mean.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Funny way to look at it but given the absolute enormous size of the garbled Xbox One design, I can see it being expensive.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

So... the advertisement of power is more important, you mean.

As a means of differentiating your products?

Yeah, of course.

It's the single easiest way for them to show a reason to upgrade. Far from the only way though.

Now coming up with a compelling reason in the face of no easily discernible leap? That is much harder.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Just came to post a second time in this thread..

When I bought my 360 initially, in the summer of 2006, my computer had, IIRC, a mid-range Radeon HD2000 series GPU and a 64-bit Athlon. I was blown away by the hardware and the graphics it could put on the screen at the resolution it could. The Gears of War trailer was jaw dropping. I had to get it. Upgrading my PC to such a level would be too costly, the 360's value proposition was incredible in comparison, and I got a huge kick out of it in the following 7 years. I currently own 49 games for it (with about a dozen unplayed, but still.) That is the effect of good hardware on my gaming and purchasing decisions.

Today I have a PC with a quad core Athlon II CPU and a Radeon 7770 graphics card. I look at the Ghosts and Quantum Shift video and I literally can't see ANYTHING that my current PC can't handle at my monitor resolution (1440x900), and no games that I'm dying to get. Franchises I loved for the 360 have either completed their saga, gone to shit or got canned.

So here I am, looking at my options, and the XBOX ONE sits there with an unknown price tag - and even so I can not justify it. It's value to me is zero, nothing. I'll get nothing out of it no matter what the price tag because I can already have what I want of it for free from another platform I currently own.

To make the matters worse, its anti-consumer features have left a terrible taste in my mouth.

If I could look at it and go 'WOW, I can't reasonably expect to own a PC with those capabilities for a couple of years yet.' MAYBE I could get over all the bullshit.

But with this? For this?

No. MS, I'm skipping on your next console.

I hear you.

It's funny though lots of people added that 'Only on Xbox' image to their avatar and since yesterday most of them are pissed off and posting negative stuff, and rightly so.