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[nelsonroyale]

Then you should be in the PC camp, PS4 is low- to mid-end at best.

I don't get this reasoning. Don't bother going PC today, in 2 years time your top of the line GPU will be low brow. Running games at 180 fps on 10 teraflop beast in a couple of years time is worth the price of admission. Nobody will produce games dedicated to that kind of hardware. IQ will be vastly improved this gen compared to last anyway. It is just a case of tech on PC being ahead of the curve, but I reckon next gen console exclusives will easily hang with the best stuff on PC in terms of visual impact.

 

[faceless007]

Thank you so much for this.

I'm glad to know i'm not the only one to think about this, because every time i see people posting that power doesn't matter it just makes me go nuts because it means that those people are either crazy, stupid or 12, so they haven't lived the past.

It's all about the context in which they launched, having a lot of power is the rule, the exception was the Wii, and like you said, even in this current gen more people chose HD systems.

What's your source for this? If you're just summing PS3 + X360 that doesn't account for people who owned both.

 

[szaromir]

I reckon next gen console exclusives will easily hang with the best stuff on PC in terms of visual impact.

At lower framerate and IQ settings (which actually takes away a lot of the visual impact).

 

[nelsonroyale]

At lower framerate and IQ settings (which actually takes away a lot of the visual impact).

1080p with MSAA is fine for most TVs. Stuff by ND and SSM won't be on PC though, that was my kind of point.

 

[nasos_333]

So bad graphics is a "feature" now ?

 

[Slayer-33]

Despite the tantrum that gaf throws as a whole because it's an ultra vocal hardcore gaming community we will have to wait and see, MS has a plan, we got to see how it plays out. We have to see how the hardware will be used and how the development tools will be used.

Has there been a ton of negative press online for MS? Yeah, for lots of little things, but we all know that the gaming industry is evolving. The hardcore gamer in us is what provokes harsh knee jerk reactions before putting things in perspective.

For all we know, that decently 'noticeable' gap in power on paper between PS4 and Xbox One can just be a wash if you consider that what you'll see from the hardware on the screen moved past the minimum required on XBO's end in relation to PS4 to be something that anyone notices.

 

[perineumlick]

Its politics. It just matters what the base camp is saying. Now that MS seems slighted, Graphics don't matter or hardware power (Yet still claiming they will be better than the ps4 of course).

Same with blur ay, im shocked there wasn't a gigantic "TOLDYASO" over how much bluray was smeared and thrown under the table by MSnCo.

If the tables were turned, and Sony had the weaker console, MS fans would be beating their chests over that fact, while Sony fans would say diminishing returns, lowest denominator and all that jazz.

 

[Ikael]

I keep thinking that power is going to matter less and less each generation, and this kinda proves my point. The technological arms race and its ever growing production costs is a wholly unsustainable model, and I am glad that it is dying. The problem is that neither Microsoft nor Nintendo haven't showed anything remotely close to be able to replace said outdated model. Steambox, anyone?

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I keep thinking that power is going to matter less and less each generation, and this kinda proves my point. The technological arms race and its ever growing production costs is a wholly unsustainable model, and I am glad that it is dying. The problem is that neither Microsoft nor Nintendo haven't showed anything remotely close to be able to replace said outdated model. Steambox, anyone?

I agree with that and i think the past proves that power isnt a guaranteed win. But what MS did badly yesterday wasn't the fact that the specs were weaker than ps4, the problem was the was the lack of actual games (and not just videos of them). The console has 15 exclusives in the first year, and yet they've managed to show one of them.....in a mostly cg video. As for COD, it looked like COD, but more HD.

The problem isn't power, the problem is where are my fucking games??

 

[Beetleking11]

The problem isn't power, the problem is where are my fucking games??

And thats the fucking problem..

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Graphics matter or not now? I just want to know where people sit?

Graphics matter.

 

[Beetleking11]

Graphics matter or not now? I just want to know where people sit?

Graphics matter.

Grapich does not matter.. people still buy the console if they have games.. Games matter.

 

[RoadHazard]

Ok, but what does this mean for the games? Until we see a game like Watch Dogs release and be compared side by side, this theoretical power doesnt say much.

Well, given the almost identical architectures along with the PS4's 50% higher GPU performance and much higher RAM bandwidth (plus more of it usable for games), at a minimum it should mean that the same game with the same visual fidelity will run significantly better on the PS4 without the devs even trying. And without much work at all PS4 games should be able to run at higher resolutions with higher res textures, better AA, more effects and particles, better draw distance and LOD, etc (all stuff that really takes no real extra work, it's just turning some settings up).

 

[Wynnebeck]

Grapich does not matter.. people still buy the console if they have games.. Games matter.

I guess graphics really don't matter considering Wii U supposedly had the best looking version of Ass Creed 3 and sold terribly.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I guess graphics really don't matter considering Wii U supposedly had the best looking version of Ass Creed 3 and sold terribly.

Ya but it doesnt have next gen graphics or games. Doesnt bode well for the future.

Well, given the almost identical architectures along with the PS4's 50% higher GPU performance and much higher RAM bandwidth (plus more of it usable for games), at a minimum it should mean that the same game with the same visual fidelity will run significantly better on the PS4 without the devs even trying. And without much work at all PS4 games should be able to run at higher resolutions with higher res textures, better AA, more effects and particles, better draw distance and LOD, etc (all stuff that really takes no real extra work, it's just turning some settings up).

Ya thats what i thought. Right now, im leaning towards ps4 at launch and ill just wait the XOne out. See what happens. Theyd have to really blow me away at e3 to change my mind.

 

[SneakyStephan]

1080p with MSAA is fine for most TVs. Stuff by ND and SSM won't be on PC though, that was my kind of point.

It's cute that you think you'll get 1080p with msaa in a 32MB framebuffer on xbox, or that you'll get msaa with deferred shading on ps4 for that matter.

Seems the only way to get decent image quality next gen will be SSAA like in planetside 2 or metro last light or Arma. And for that you 'll need a powerful pc, not a hd7850.

Then 2 years in they'll feel the need to push effects and post processing crap to add more noise and clutter to give the perception of 'better' graphics , just like they did this gen, and then the framerate will be the first thing to go, again....

We can only hope ps4 and xbox will NOT 'keep pace' with pc graphics but will for once in console's miserable lives try to keep the framerate steady, the image quality intact and the not cut off frames, so that we can all enjoy untainted gameplay.

 

[Pistolero]

Everything else at the Sony conference, and all the games and Microsoft's conference yesterday, all made me think current-gen upscaled with a few extra effects.

DriveClub looks way, way, WAY more advanced than anything produced on the PS3. As for Infamous SS, a simple side by side comparison with Infamous 1 and 2 would suffice as an eye opener.
I think that people who don't see the jump (from the 360 to the One as well) have been acclimated to last gen CG intros, bullshots and the myriad of concept trailers (case in point GT 5 and 6) that use in-game assets but crank up resolution, AA, motion blur, DOF and other graphical effects that the hardware couldn't dream of handling in-game.
If one were to assume that the recent Forza trailer is a realtime, in-engine sequence, one could easily observe the gulf separating its visuals from those of past entries...

 

[Beetleking11]

Ya but it doesnt have next gen graphics or games. Doesnt bode well for the future.

That is not the reason.. People who bought Batman have already it for ps3 and Xbox360. Why would people spend 300 dollars for a batman game? If they could get it for Ps3 and Xbox360 and even Pc.

 

[M°°nblade]

Grapich does not matter.. people still buy the console if they have games.. Games matter.

Saying games matter but graphics don't is pretty silly since the graphics are always part of the game. It's at least part of what makes games interesting to people. There are not separate entities.

That is not the reason.. People who bought Batman have already it for ps3 and Xbox360. Why would people spend 300 dollars for a batman game? If they could get it for Ps3 and Xbox360 and even Pc.

They were talking about Ass creed, not batman.

 

[D-e-f-]

This is Nintendo's fault.

Agreed. Iwata should simply instantly resign completely.

 

[Majanew]

Instead, they targeted putting Kinect 2.0 in every SKU with Xbone. Motion-based gaming is dead. Should have spent the money on a beefier GPU.

 

[crazy_about_denise]

In terms of raw power the Cell + RSX most certainly were a more powerful duo than the 360's weaker CPU and stronger GPU, which is why the few devs who had the opportunity to really master the Cell were able to create games with visuals noticeably better than anything on the 360.

Well again that's simplifying things. Not every developer had what it takes to trigger that potential, and raw power is the wrong word.
Raw power if a certain instruction or procedure is used more often.

This time around it's totally different situation with two machines being nearly identical in terms of architecture but not in power. It's easier now to program for the both of them and see discrepancies of power.

 

[sonic moob]

What a bad idea. Are they purposefully not targeting high sales? Damn machine is still as/more expensive than if it was as relatively powerful as the 360 was.

Are they trying to change what a games console should be because they think that people who love gaming think iphones/ipad/God knows what crap is the way forward?

 

[hoos30]

What a bad idea. Are they purposefully not targeting high sales? Damn machine is still as/more expensive than if it was as relatively powerful as the 360 was.

Are they trying to change what a games console should be because they think that people who love gaming think iphones/ipad/God knows what crap is the way forward?

When is the last time the "most powerful" console had the highest sales?

 

[Rashid]

It worked for the Wii?

Not for long.

 

[sonic moob]

When is the last time the "most powerful" console had the highest sales?

That's true.

I just feel like people are happy with the PS4 specs only because they are the best of a shitty choice. Surely everyone can agree that, in relative terms, how powerful PS3 was then, how powerful PS4 now, the PS4 is nowhere near as powerful as the PS3 was? The Xbox One is just poor. I can't be happy about that.

 

[Alx]

E3 proved that specs don't matter that much. All the big games looked great, many looked fun, I think we will survive whatever the amount of flops and RAM.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Of course they couldn't go for the most power, because they were chasing TV features and wanted a forced kinect in the box. The console is already $500.

Not like it matters, as they will still get great third party support and paid exclusives.

 

[Taurus]

Not for long.

Yeah, only 100 million consoles sold and billions of dollars of money made during 5 years. I mean look at the competition. Nintendo must be kicking themselves because they didn't choose the HD route when PS3 and X360 did.

 

[goomba]

nor did sony

 

[ascii42]

When is the last time the "most powerful" console had the highest sales?

Probably Super Nintendo, depending on whether or not you count some of the really expensive niche consoles. Typically, the most powerful console comes out last, which puts it at a disadvantage. The Xbox One is launching alongside a more powerful system.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Yeah, only 100 million consoles sold and billions of dollars of money made during 5 years. I mean look at the competition. Nintendo must be kicking themselves because they didn't choose the HD route when PS3 and X360 did.

It's a shame then, that software sales make them money, and to my knowledge the attach rate for the Wii was the worst in console history.

They may have sold many consoles, and many, many copies of a handful of first party titles, but otherwise the software sales were pretty poor.

 

[szaromir]

It's a shame then, that software sales make them money, and to my knowledge the attach rate for the Wii was the worst in console history.

They may have sold many consoles, and many, many copies of a handful of first party titles, but otherwise the software sales were pretty poor.

Wrong.

 

[Ushae]

It's cute that you think you'll get 1080p with msaa in a 32MB framebuffer on xbox, or that you'll get msaa with deferred shading on ps4 for that matter.

Seems the only way to get decent image quality next gen will be SSAA like in planetside 2 or metro last light or Arma. And for that you 'll need a powerful pc, not a hd7850.

Then 2 years in they'll feel the need to push effects and post processing crap to add more noise and clutter to give the perception of 'better' graphics , just like they did this gen, and then the framerate will be the first thing to go, again....

We can only hope ps4 and xbox will NOT 'keep pace' with pc graphics but will for once in console's miserable lives try to keep the framerate steady, the image quality intact and the not cut off frames, so that we can all enjoy untainted gameplay.

Honestly you nailed it. There is a certain point in quality beyond which I don't really care much, after that the framerate should be tight. As long as we get those HD textures, and great fidelity whatever means the devs use to achieve those .. I am A-Ok with these consoles. These 1.2 vs 1.8 comparisons are getting old, when people did the same thing last gen, in the end the games told us a different story. It's all about the games.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

nor did sony

Compared to what MS has they did. They went the highest they could go while trying to keep the cost down. We should be happy Sony even tried.

 

[orioto]

When is the last time the "most powerful" console had the highest sales?

Every single "most powerfull console" against its day of launch competition was the best selling one. That other most powerful consoles were released after and too late or with other problems is not relevant.

 

[Marleyman]

I just don't think multi-plat games are going to look THAT different for the average gamer. Let's take BF4; I can't see the Xbox One version looking significantly worse.

I think this will show later in the cycle for PS4 exclusives though; for sure.

 

[Raymo]

When is the last time the "most powerful" console had the highest sales?

That is not an argument that can be applied this generation. So, people should stop using it.

Here's why:

1. The two major powerhouse consoles are coming out at the same time instead of a year apart.

2. The more powerful console in the past is usually more expensive. This time, the ps4 is actually $100 cheaper.

Use your brains people. Stop regurgitating.

 

[CookTrain]

Every single "most powerfull console" against its day of launch competition was the best selling one. That other most powerful consoles were released after and too late or with other problems is not relevant.

Xbox 360 doesn't fit that specification at all. It was ahead of every console around it at time of launch and was trounced by the Wii and went punch for punch with the PS3.

 

[SMZC]

When is the last time the "most powerful" console had the highest sales?

When was the last time the most powerful console was also the cheapest?

Rest assured that power will matter in swaying Xbox users to the PS4 when a more powerful hardware is accompanied by a substantially cheaper price.

 

[diffusionx]

That's smart of MS, it's fact that most people don't care about highest end graphics. And those that do can drop the money on a high end PC with Titan. A console will NEVER make those folks happy.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I just don't think multi-plat games are going to look THAT different for the average gamer. Let's take BF4; I can't see the Xbox One version looking significantly worse.

I think this will show later in the cycle for PS4 exclusives though; for sure.

Nothing is stopping devs from optimizing to each platforms strengths so if that means better textures, higher fps (maybe 10-20 more, who knows), or anything beneficial to the PS4's HW advantage, you bet you will see it. Or we will let the experts critique. There's nothing stopping devs from holding one version back to retain platform parity just like there's nothing stopping a dev from using the extra horsepower of PS4.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Need more evidence, based on what we saw at E3 PS4 developers are the ones that appear to unexpectedly be behind.......

 

[Taurus]

It's a shame then, that software sales make them money, and to my knowledge the attach rate for the Wii was the worst in console history.

They may have sold many consoles, and many, many copies of a handful of first party titles, but otherwise the software sales were pretty poor.

Wii total software sales are between 800 to 900 million pieces. That's bad?

 

[Dragon]

That's smart of MS, it's fact that most people don't care about highest end graphics. And those that do can drop the money on a high end PC with Titan. A console will NEVER make those folks happy.

If they didn't target high end graphics why are they charging more for their system than their competitor who has higher end graphics?

Because they're prioritizing the wrong thing.

As far as high end PCs vs. PS4, PS4's exclusives will not be on PC, so if you like its exclusives, yeah you're going to need a PS4.

Need more evidence, based on what we saw at E3 PS4 developers are the ones that appear to unexpectedly be behind.......

You need more evidence than what? Microsoft coming out and saying it?

 

[otapnam]

That's smart of MS, it's fact that most people don't care about highest end graphics. And those that do can drop the money on a high end PC with Titan. A console will NEVER make those folks happy.

I think people are more informed now than ever. Social Media sites, blogs, etc are more relevant than last console gen release. The average Joe knows or think they know more about gaming than before.

 

[Interfectum]

Yeah, only 100 million consoles sold and billions of dollars of money made during 5 years. I mean look at the competition. Nintendo must be kicking themselves because they didn't choose the HD route when PS3 and X360 did.

Neat. How's that helping them now? Short term profits are great but not at the expensive of shedding a massive userbase, which they did.

 

[SMZC]

That's smart of MS, it's fact that most people don't care about highest end graphics. And those that do can drop the money on a high end PC with Titan. A console will NEVER make those folks happy.

By that logic, the Wii U should have enjoyed at the very least a moderately higher degree of success.

Truthfact: Console users care about power. They want the accessibility, easiness of use and reliability of a console while having a system that can display up-to-date graphics.

 

[Stealth_Cobra]

It's a shame your competition did target great graphics then ,MS... Especially since said competition costs less.

Seriously, when will MS learn to just shut the hell up ? Every... Single... Word... Everytime they open their big bloated PR mouth it's to spout garbage that digs a deeper hole for them ?

I mean how hard is it to shut up, not say stupid stuff, just hide in a corner and wait in silence. But why shut up when you can actively lose customers by blabbering nonsense, being patronistic, out of touch and outright wrong about what your core consumers want.

 

[diffusionx]

If they didn't target high end graphics why are they charging more for their system than their competitor who has higher end graphics?

Because they're prioritizing the wrong thing.

This is implying that the *only* factor in a system's price is graphics power. This is obviously not true. They charge the highest price they think they can charge.

MS is charging more and also bundling in a Kinect. You might think that's the "wrong thing", but that's for the market to decide.

By that logic, the Wii U should have enjoyed at the very least a moderately higher degree of success.

Truthfact: Console users care about power. They want the accessibility, easiness of use and reliability of a console while having a system that can display up-to-date graphics.

No, it does not imply that. The Wii U hasn't delivered much beyond what is already available - this is not the case for the One.

Console users care about power to a certain point. There's really no question that they don't need the highest end stuff, because if they did, nobody would be playing on Xbox 360 or PS3 right now. Obviously lots of people are, even though PCs can run many of the games better.