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[phierce]

The possibility of your house getting burned down or a nefarious group of villains stalking you will do the same thing, if it exists in the game.

Maybe I've had too much to drink tonight, but WHAT!?!

 

[Somnia]

Unlike Ashodin I'm keeping my hype in check... sort of

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Unlike Ashodin I'm keeping my hype in check... sort of"

Yeah, there's absolutely zero information on game systems to even begin starting to freak out about "possibilities." Still excited to see what they show on the 2nd.

 

[Ashodin]

Just doing

Spoiler

un

healthy speculation, really. I'll stop if it's bothering people.

 

[Stimpack]

This is what made EQ for me...and by made, I mean 7-8 years of grand times. I need more of this kind of stuff, and I needed it yesterday!

Please, for the love of God, deliver with this SOE!!

Is your avatar from Rounders? That was a pretty good movie! Never hear people talk about it, though.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to relive the experiences I had with EverQuest. I think the closest I could get is by going into the older MMOs and playing there. Not because of nostalgic reasons, but because the internet has changed so dramatically over the years. It's no longer what it once was back then. MMOs were considered one of the geekiest genres, even among people who played games regularly. It gave pretty much everyone who played games a common ground. You knew damn well that the person on the other end of the line wasn't some douche bag that you'd tend to avoid in real life. They were usually timid, mild-mannered people who you could relate to, and they weren't there because it was "cool." Now things have changed, and the internet isn't like it was. Games aren't like they were, either. At least this is how I've found things to be in my experience. I could be wrong, I don't claim to know everything.

All of this being said, I am excited for EQ Next. I've played too much garbage to get my hopes up, but it would be nice if it were decent.

 

[Iadien]

There was a great community because we had to rely on each other for different things. res, ports, sow, corpse summon, corpse locating, invis, binding, etc.

 

[Kleegamefan]

If this becomes a PS4 release, there is no chance of it being split screen co-op I assume?


I know next to nothing about Everquest, btw

 

[glenn8]

If this becomes a PS4 release, there is no chance of it being split screen co-op I assume?


I know next to nothing about Everquest, btw

Lol. Its a mmo bro

----

Since its called Sandbox, it has open PvP 100%
I hope its not restricted too much (safezone and such)
Or lets just hope it really has PvP...

 

[Ashodin]

Safe zones most likely will be Towns. Guards going after you if you attack someone and such.

 

[Vestal]

There was a great community because we had to rely on each other for different things. res, ports, sow, corpse summon, corpse locating, invis, binding, etc.

voice chat was also a pipedream.

 

[Artemis-Thoth]

voice chat was also a pipedream.

You get better at Common (1).

Voice chat kinda ruins talking in other languages.

 

[glenn8]

Safe zones most likely will be Towns. Guards going after you if you attack someone and such.

Yeah, but I hope not ALL towns are safezones, maybe only the major ones.
Small towns should stay pvp all the time. With guards guarding there.

 

[spirity]

Safe zones most likely will be Towns. Guards going after you if you attack someone and such.

Speaking of which, I hope that everything in the game is killable. That means the vendors, the guards, the banker, everything. Not just the enemy, but in my home town or faction too.

I'm going to be open minded when playing this game. There's bound to be things I don't like because no game is perfect. I'll roll with it. But if all the npcs are untargettable, thats a deal breaker for me. I'm not a greifer, but I do want to play in a world. I have a fear that SoE will compromise their sandbox design with themepark features, and that won't make me very happy.

 

[Ashodin]

Speaking of which, I hope that everything in the game is killable. That means the vendors, the guards, the banker, everything. Not just the enemy, but in my home town or faction too.

I'm going to be open minded when playing this game. There's bound to be things I don't like because no game is perfect. I'll roll with it. But if all the npcs are untargettable, thats a deal breaker for me. I'm not a greifer, but I do want to play in a world. I have a fear that SoE will compromise their sandbox design with themepark features, and that won't make me very happy.

We might be able to kill NPCs. Just a heavy toll comes with it, notoriety and such.

 

[Iadien]

Speaking of which, I hope that everything in the game is killable. That means the vendors, the guards, the banker, everything. Not just the enemy, but in my home town or faction too.

I'm going to be open minded when playing this game. There's bound to be things I don't like because no game is perfect. I'll roll with it. But if all the npcs are untargettable, thats a deal breaker for me. I'm not a greifer, but I do want to play in a world. I have a fear that SoE will compromise their sandbox design with themepark features, and that won't make me very happy.

As long as killing things we shouldn't be killing comes with consequences, I don't mind it.

 

[spirity]

We might be able to kill NPCs. Just a heavy toll comes with it, notoriety and such.

As long as killing things we shouldn't be killing comes with consequences, I don't mind it.

Yep, I'd be cool with that. Faction hits or something, I don't mind there being consequences (in fact, it would be disappointing if there weren't).

 

[Ashodin]

As long as killing things we shouldn't be killing comes with consequences, I don't mind it.

Exactly. I want the world to be rules and regulations, much like the real world. Of course, I hope the farther you go away from bigger towns, the more lax things get, kind of like the wild (fantasy) west.

 

[Echelon079]

Lol. Its a mmo bro

----

Since its called Sandbox, it has open PvP 100%
I hope its not restricted too much (safezone and such)
Or lets just hope it really has PvP...

There is no chance of 100% PvP in this day and age. Although I'm sure there will be PvP servers.

 

[Shrennin]

There is no chance of 100% PvP in this day and age. Although I'm sure there will be PvP servers.

Well, the 100% PVP will likely be available on PVP servers, but I do imagine there being PVE servers.

 

[Artemis-Thoth]

Exactly. I want the world to be rules and regulations, much like the real world. Of course, I hope the farther you go away from bigger towns, the more lax things get, kind of like the wild (fantasy) west.

Faction hits should only happen if there's a witness, and you should be given warning by NPC #34578 as they're running away. If they get so far they despawn and a day later you take the faction hit. (Assuming they travelled to a city and informed the court/guards/etc) I always hated the eye in the sky* approach to faction hits.

*bonus pts if now you're singing "Eye in the Sky"

 

[Ashodin]

On the subject of griefing

When it comes to emergent gameplay and the notion of players as content, there's also the problem of antisocial behavior. What sorts of ways do you address that in sandbox titles?

It all revolves around what the sandbox elements that you're putting into the game are. Certainly griefers are a part of every game. Our intent is not to make a game where antisocial people rule the world. The intent is to make a world that's immersive and allows so many player interactions and so much involvement, not to empower griefers. Every single one of our new games is designed with that in mind. A good example is PlanetSide 2. There's a very harsh anti-griefing system in that game. It's funny because before we put it in, you had exactly what you'd expect, which was people just mowing teammates down. We went to China Joy, and it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen, just watching people. They only had 15 minutes on the game, so they shot anything that moved. They were just mowing teammates down. So we had to put the anti-griefing stuff in.

This is not going to be Grieferquest, and every system will be designed around not allowing that. It's one of those things where you have to make it so that griefers can't ruin the experience for everyone else.

 

[Einbroch]

Uh, anti-co-op griefing is fine.

Don't touch my PVP griefing. Some of the best fun I had in WoW before they implemented flying mounts was ganking and camping.

 

[zabuni]

Uh, anti-co-op griefing is fine.

Don't touch my PVP griefing. Some of the best fun I had in WoW before they implemented flying mounts was ganking and camping.

The Unbearable Darkness of Ultima Online

But, for Surly Bob and the other "old school evil players" nostalgic for the glory days of Ultima Online – it won’t happen again. Ever. That moment in time was unique – and it’s gone. Because there will never again be a time where there is only one MMO. The market has matured to the point where there will always be choices. And in a dog-eat-dog PvP game, there will only be the PvPers, not the targets. Because now people actually have the choice of selecting which game to play, which game suits them best. If a person is targeted for the tender mercies of "evil players" – they simply will cancel and move on. The days of UO’s One World where many mutually exclusive play styles are forced to interact, on the terms of the more socially maladroit, are over. The market has fragmented, and cannot be put back together. People, when forced to play the role of "sheep" or "stupid newbie", will simply leave.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

EVE Online seems to be doing fine even though you can grief people for fun.

 

[Ashodin]

Uh, anti-co-op griefing is fine.

Don't touch my PVP griefing. Some of the best fun I had in WoW before they implemented flying mounts was ganking and camping.

Oh sure, there will be PVP griefing in the game, but you must weigh the risks (much like real life). Can you get away? Can you evade being pursued by the guards? This is the type of systems they suggest are in the game.

 

[TheRealTalker]

as its a sandbox... does that mean I can just continue to run and travel every where without having to use portal to enter other continents/dungeons/realms/etc...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The Unbearable Darkness of Ultima Online

I don't agree with that assessment. Sure, people will leave after being ganked/griefed, but they did back when Ultima Online was the only thing around, too. Will they leave in higher numbers? Perhaps, but there's also a lot more people willing and able to play online games than there was back then.

 

[Ashodin]

as its a sandbox... does that mean I can just continue to run and travel every where without having to use portal to enter other continents/dungeons/realms/etc...

I imagine whole regions will be available, and loading between regions will be a very small part of the game. Even wow with its giant world, still had to load between continents. I assume this will be the case.

 

[TheRealTalker]

I imagine whole regions will be available, and loading between regions will be a very small part of the game. Even wow with its giant world, still had to load between continents. I assume this will be the case.

I see... I really hope the lands in which you explore will vast as well as diverse

 

[Ashodin]

I see... I really hope the lands in which you explore will vast as well as diverse

One can hope!

Here's another quote from Smedley that really has me going.

You also talked about how quickly traditional MMO content is consumed and how that plays into your decision to adopt a philosophy toward emergent gameplay. The question comes up about how that affects the future of raid content -- something that takes a lot of time to design and is usually played by only a portion of the community. What are your thoughts on that?

This is a very interesting question. I think it's at the core of why what we're doing is sustainable. I'll go right to the heart of the matter. You get to the point where we make an expansion, and when I say we, I mean the entire MMO community. You make your expansion, the real hardcore players consume it in a month, and they're doing the raids over and over and over until the next round of live content that we put in. Typically, three or four times a year, we as MMO companies put new endgame in there to keep the raiders happy.

We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions. A good example, but a very narrow example, is battlegrounds in WoW or EQII, where players get bored doing it over and over again. But imagine the entire world as part of the interaction. Imagine seasons changing. Imagine if you're a Druid and you need to literally seek out reagents for your spells or worship your deity in a glade somewhere off in the wilderness, but you don't know where. Or image forests growing back after they're burned to the ground by invading forces. What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it.

 

[Coins]

I hope this game really hits home with me. I freaking loved EQ. The friends I made in that game back in 1999, I still have to this day. My favorite gaming moment is from the first day I played EQ.

I was in Qeynos Hills exploring and saw a dude named Tovax Vmar. I ran up to him to start chatting and see if he wanted to group.

Then he killed me. I didn't realize he was an NPC. The only bad mob I had come across had been of the monster variety so far. Bats, skellies, wolves, etc.

I ran to grab my body and saw him still there. So I started spamming /ooc that there was a hacker in the game who was killing people. I tried to harass Tovax for an hour or so. Finally a GM was like, Tovax is an NPC, not a player character. Then the realization set in on how deep this new world was to me.

After that, every time my rogue was near QH, I killed that motherfucker.

 

[TheRealTalker]

One can hope!

Here's another quote from Smedley that really has me going.

You also talked about how quickly traditional MMO content is consumed and how that plays into your decision to adopt a philosophy toward emergent gameplay. The question comes up about how that affects the future of raid content -- something that takes a lot of time to design and is usually played by only a portion of the community. What are your thoughts on that?

This really has me intrigued especially with the seasons ideas and dynamic changes to the environment

 

[spirity]

On the subject of griefing

When it comes to emergent gameplay and the notion of players as content, there's also the problem of antisocial behavior. What sorts of ways do you address that in sandbox titles?

That makes me a bit suspicious. How is this going to play out I wonder. It looks like they're exerting a level of control over player actions to stop players having an effect on the gameplay of others.

We all remember trains. I'm betting there will be no trains in EQN. If there's no trains, what other restrictions will there be?

Right now, I'm gonna call it - Smed has been touting sandbox over and over, but I get the feeling they will exert a level of control over to players to curb any type of action they don't want you taking. Which is exactly what a themepark is.

I guess we'll find out soon, but I smell a fish.

 

[Ashodin]

That makes me a bit suspicious. How is this going to play out I wonder. It looks like they're exerting a level of control over player actions to stop players having an effect on the gameplay of others.

We all remember trains. I'm betting there will be no trains in EQN. If there's no trains, what other restrictions will there be?

Right now, I'm gonna call it - Smed has been touting sandbox over and over, but I get the feeling they will exert a level of control over to players to curb any type of action they don't want you taking. Which is exactly what a themepark is.

I guess we'll find out soon, but I smell a fish.

What? This is pretty paranoid thinking. All I understand from what he said is that there will be ways to punish players from being antisocial. Not punish them for not doing what SOE "thinks" you should be doing.

 

[BattleMonkey]

EVE Online seems to be doing fine even though you can grief people for fun.

Eve has limits to the griefing though with the security zones. Players can mostly be safe in parts of the game but know going to certain places requires much more caution.

Also griefing is much more risky in EVE than in many mmos. The penalty for death is quite large compared to many old games where it didn't mean a whole lot outside of irritation. You piss off the wrong dude and suddenly you see millions of your money and time down the drain.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

One can hope!

Here's another quote from Smedley that really has me going.

You also talked about how quickly traditional MMO content is consumed and how that plays into your decision to adopt a philosophy toward emergent gameplay. The question comes up about how that affects the future of raid content -- something that takes a lot of time to design and is usually played by only a portion of the community. What are your thoughts on that?

Oh man... that's some cool sounding stuff. I really want a rich world like that. Man... must stop myself from getting too hypes.

 

[Ashodin]

Oh man... that's some cool sounding stuff. I really want a rich world like that. Man... must stop myself from getting too hypes.

You're telling me. Everything they've talked about so far might be total PR hype, but seriously I get the vibe from Georgeson and Smedley that what they're making here is so crazy that it has to be seen to believed.

They have had to black box the entire development process for years now because apparently what they're working on is so radical they want to stop any other developer from creating it before them.

It's a longshot theory, but I think the reason why Blizzard scrapped Titan and are redoing it is because they got a whiff of what SOE is making. What else can it be?

 

[spirity]

What? This is pretty paranoid thinking. All I understand from what he said is that there will be ways to punish players from being antisocial. Not punish them for not doing what SOE "thinks" you should be doing.

You're seeing what you want to see Ashodin. You are hyping this game up to be the next messiah. I've been here before, and it doesn't end well. If you don't retain a healthy amount of doubt or cynicism, you will be disappointed. I can't count the number of times I've seen this play out.

 

[aliencowz7]

What? This is pretty paranoid thinking. All I understand from what he said is that there will be ways to punish players from being antisocial. Not punish them for not doing what SOE "thinks" you should be doing.

Everquest 1 already punished people for being antisocial by making it totally impossible outside of a remote few classes to do anything at all meaningful while alone.

There are alot of things that need to be left in the past from Everquest 1 and punishing antisocial behavior to the extent they did back then is right among the top of the list.

 

[Coins]

Everquest 1 already punished people for being antisocial by making it totally impossible outside of a remote few classes to do anything at all meaningful while alone.

There are alot of things that need to be left in the past from Everquest 1 and punishing antisocial behavior to the extent they did back then is right among the top of the list.

I don't think people are referring to soloing as antisocial behavior. In EQ, if you were an antisocial fuck and caused problems in the community, your name became dirt. You didnt get to raid, or find good groups, etc. Players drove the antisocial behavior punishment, which is how it should be.

 

[Ashodin]

You're seeing what you want to see Ashodin. You are hyping this game up to be the next messiah. I've been here before, and it doesn't end well. If you don't retain a healthy amount of doubt or cynicism, you will be disappointed. I can't count the number of times I've seen this play out.

I have huge nagging doubts they'll make any of this work, honestly. It sounds so crazy different than the way regular MMOs work today that I'm having a hard time believing it's possible.

But my mind still likes to drift into "well, if it IS possible..."

That being said, I think a healthy amount of hype (which I have) can drive a good thread and discussion on the game. Which is why the OT will be posted tonight so everyone can get in on the fun.

 

[aliencowz7]

I don't think people are referring to soloing as antisocial behavior. In EQ, if you were an antisocial fuck and caused problems in the community, your name became dirt. You didnt get to raid, or find good groups, etc. Players drove the antisocial behavior punishment, which is how it should be.

Causing problems in the community isn't being antisocial, its being a dick. Antisocial people would be the ones avoiding any kind of community any chance they can not bringing more attention to themselves within it by doing dumb shit.

 

[Ashodin]

Causing problems in the community isn't being antisocial, its being a dick. Antisocial people would be the ones avoiding any kind of community any chance they can not bringing more attention to themselves within it by doing dumb shit.

I'm uncertain that soloing would be considering antisocial behavior by SOE. It seems like a natural part of the game to let players who like to lone wolf it do their thing (within reason). You shouldn't be able to kill a huge dragon by yourself for instance.

 

[spirity]

I have huge nagging doubts they'll make any of this work, honestly. It sounds so crazy different than the way regular MMOs work today that I'm having a hard time believing it's possible.

But my mind still likes to drift into "well, if it IS possible..."

That being said, I think a healthy amount of hype (which I have) can drive a good thread and discussion on the game. Which is why the OT will be posted tonight so everyone can get in on the fun.

There's nothing wrong with being positive. Just know that we've seen nothing, and MMO's have a poor track record. They have everything to prove, and there's more reason to doubt them than believe them. Words mean for nothing, but I read Smedley's post as saying "we're gonna lock shit down". That may be paranoia, but its not like I have no reason for it.

 

[VGChampion]

It's a longshot theory, but I think the reason why Blizzard scrapped Titan and are redoing it is because they got a whiff of what SOE is making. What else can it be?

Maybe the fact that while WoW has gone down in numbers, it's still a beast. It's doing what now? 8 million? That's still insane. If they release Titan anytime soon they're really just taking money from WoW.

 

[Ashodin]

There's nothing wrong with being positive. Just know that we've seen nothing, and MMO's have a poor track record. They have everything to prove, and there's more reason to doubt them than believe them. Words mean for nothing, but I read Smedley's post as saying "we're gonna lock shit down". That may be paranoia, but its not like I have no reason for it.

I understand, and only hope that this doesn't turn out to be the case. It just seems anti-player, and anti their vision for changing the genre.

 

[aliencowz7]

I'm uncertain that soloing would be considering antisocial behavior by SOE. It seems like a natural part of the game to let players who like to lone wolf it do their thing (within reason). You shouldn't be able to kill a huge dragon by yourself for instance.

Yeah I just mean I hope that they don't go overboard trying to shoehorn players into being forced to group up for everything. It is exactly what happened in Everquest 1, you couldn't even solo most light blue con mobs on most classes even with full raid buffs and it was already pretty much impossible to make any progress leveling off light blue mobs anyways.

Without heavy buffs you couldn't even kill most green con mobs that were around your level solo, it was pretty absurd if you weren't a bard / necro type class with kiting gimmicks. Don't even get me started on how long it took to recuperate after a solo fight even if you somehow managed to pull it off.

 

[Ashodin]

Yeah I just mean I hope that they don't go overboard trying to shoehorn players into being forced to group up for everything. It is exactly what happened in Everquest 1, you couldn't even solo most light blue con mobs on most classes even with full raid buffs and it was already pretty much impossible to make any progress leveling off light blue mobs anyways.

Without heavy buffs you couldn't even kill most green con mobs that were around your level solo, it was pretty absurd if you weren't a bard / necro type class with kiting gimmicks. Don't even get me started on how long it took to recuperate after a solo fight even if you somehow managed to pull it off.

This is something I want to go away really. There is no reason for making mobs un-soloable within reason.

 

[Jarnet87]

The first two campcheck episodes were interesting listens. They had some good ideas, and some bad lol. They seem to think the commemorative artwork will be the art style for the game. They also talked about some ideas from Dark Fall being used in EQN, little do they know how garbage Dark Fall is.

 

[RPGCrazied]

So, this is F2P right? I hope so, I don't like playing monthly for games anymore, I only do that for WoW.