Dave Meltzer
Banned
They lost control of the message to overzealous internet "gamers" and Sony.
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MS eliminates its best new feature: 10 person, 60 min Family Sharing plan for Xbone
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
They lost control of the message to overzealous internet "gamers" and Sony.
Holy shit, I thought you were joking. Just watched the trailer. For the first 90 seconds it really looks like a Prince Of Persia reboot lol
googleplex
Member
No its a bad thing that they tried to pull this crap in the first place! What don't you understand about this?
Microsoft doesn't get in credit for pulling their heads out of their assets and seeing which way the wind was blowing.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
The problem wasn't the always online, the problem was the 24 hour check-in. I don't mind a console that (when i turn it on) looks for an online connection automatically. Im always online on all my devices. Difference is my other devices don't become a brick when my internet isnt available. They had the right idea, with a horrible delivery.
Hes been consistently right on anything involving hardware. Lets assume for a minute there was a PoP reboot and he didnt mistake the opening of that weird Halo 5 trailer for one.
You're basically saying because he got something involving third party software wrong, he cant be right about first party hardware. Thats a little ridiculous dont you think?
The message was always "Trust us! It'll be great when you get your hands on it" up till they changed policies. They lost control of nothing, it was just a consistently terrible message.
Yep, once they lost the message it was basically over.
There were a lot of positives to this system, but none of the positives were explained...or really allowed to be explained.
The PR for their policies was probably the worst I'd ever seen. It quite literally killed any chance of explaining the positives.
They should have come out with the positives first, then went through the concessions they had to make to make their vision come to life.
When people know the positives of a change, the backlash is less severe. Sure they would have dealt with a lot of DRM questions, but at least they'd have a footing to explain it better than they did.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
What they tried to do was, and still is, inevitable. It's also proven to be successful in PC and Smartphone gaming and would have been just fine on consoles.
There is absolutely no way PS5 and Xbox Two support discs. So I hope people are just as outraged in 8 years.
The thing I have fun imagining was how it was Cboat managed to glimpse the trailer before the conference
I have fun thinking of a hiding Cboat in the floorboards of the stage glimpsing clips they were going to show during the MS conference during a trial run of the show.
Dave Meltzer said:
And I hope you don't mind being wrong, just like all the people who said "if Xbox One has DRM so will Sony."
It's not an issue with time, as it is with timing. Yes nothing is instant in the corporate world, but the speed at which MS reversed almost everything was basically as "instant" as a corporation is capable of. The fact that they changed it so fast shows that they absolutely could have done it right away, but they didn't until all evidence was showing that they were getting killed not only in public perception, but preorder numbers.
If you will only believe anything negative about MS from MS employee statements, that will never happen because they would get fired.
I mean hey if you want to believe that they were listening to the "passion" and "positive feedback" of their Xbox fans, while almost every single post on their official Facebook account was ASCII middle fingers, then that's your prerogative.
Your stance is basically like someone who won't believe that a suspect murdered a person unless that person admits "Yeah I killed that guy."
seventynine
Member
We had leaks and rumours about what they were up to for half a year now, if not longer. They had plenty of time to get their message straight.
90TilInfinity
Member
Hopefully someone can ask EA/Ubisoft what made them agree to giving someone who purchased FIFA/Assassin's Creed an additional digital copy for free to be shared with 9 other people, with no restrictions or limitations.
It's just victim blaming. Microsoft did this shit to themselves, as you suggest
SlowRevolution
Member
2013 =/= 2021. A company like Microsoft can't force people to change, especially when they give them no reason to want to.
Well clearly not on software
I think it's a little ridiculous that you think that "family share" was a hardware feature. It was a software feature.
We don't even know if the yield issue is truth yet, but apparently it is because he stated it. Never mind the multiple Microsoft reps that commented saying that it's completely untrue.
I have an issue when one person's word is taken for gospel when there is conflicting information out there. I'm not saying he's always wrong, or even mostly wrong. But to jump on the bandwagon of 100% fact for no other reason than CBOAT posted it...I think that's ridiculous.
Seriously...all this backlash has insured is that when they next try to do this (and both companies will eventually try this) there will be no discs period. There will be no option to bypass that 50 gig max download.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
You think PS5 will support physical media? Really?
I don't even think I'm being controversial in saying I see no way in hell for that to happen.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
All these leaked rumors have done nothing but put a sour note on the console reveals. Rumors from unsubstantiated sources have been reported as fact all too often here and the floodgates just tore apart.
Uno Venova
Banned
I would love if insiders never came back, I for one prefer hearing everything from the companies mouth, those are the guys you can trust.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Clearly not, but I'm pretty sure once people got used to a discless system, they would have accepted the trade off for the benefits. PC gamers have been more than happy for the last decade not being able to trade in games.
I can honestly say Xbox One is a less appealing system now. Which sure is something considering how unappealing it was anyway after E3's crappy showing.
I think they will have robust digital services, but I think this gen taught them that customers who buy consoles have different expectations for what they're getting, and they'll be extremely hesitant to simply jump on board all the way without also allowing those old rights as well.
Sony and Microsoft both won't be stupid enough to want to go through this hell again. A robust digital platform, yes. The only way for console games to be purchased, nope. They now know the line in the sand.
seventynine
Member
I've been reading all the threads leading up to their announcement, E3 and post E3 and I'm still none the wiser to what their message was meant to be. Exec 1 contradicting exec 2 and so on. They simply made a fist of it. Any confusion over what Sony's intention was, was dealt with swiftly.
googleplex
Member
Yes it will. Because unlike Microsoft, Sony still wants to sale consoles in developing nations. Retail console sales aren't going anywhere. Not thus generation or the next.
They're not called developing nations for nothing. Soon digital will be option for all of us.
It will really depend on IP infrastructure and if we still have bandwidth caps... Downloading 40GB+ games with a monthly 250GB limit is not viable for everyone at the moment.
googleplex
Member
If Sony wanted to encourage PS4 digital sales they would do day one PS+ discounts on all digital sales of retail games. I'd go all digital if my Plus membership got me a game at $49.99 instead of $59.99
So because of the "timing" it's automatically assumed that they weren't acting in good faith to their community, but acting to boost pre-order numbers?
And you clearly misunderstand my stance then. My stance is more akin to a juror, waiting for all facts and opinions to be presented and then decide what I think is correct.
We have 2 conflicting versions, one from a poster with a pretty reputable posting history albeit with some incorrect predictions. The other is from multiple people from Microsoft.
I have no issue with taking CBOAT into account. I do have an issue when anything an insider says is golden. We do not know, without a shadow of a doubt, whether or not there is/was a yield issue with xbox one. We do not know, without a shadow of a doubt, whether or not there was a 60 minute limit. So why are thread titles being changed and truths being claimed?
PSPGo. They are not adverse to digital only media. Hell they even splintered their userbase with that move as there were (and still are) games you just can't play on a stock firmware Go due to them being only on UMD. They knew this and went ahead with it anyways.
At current rate of fixed line broadband growth, it'll have to. FTTH is expensive as fuck, xDSL is shit and Cable has comparable costs with DOCSIS 3.0 and above. Hell LTE R10 will be the likely stop gap broadband solution for a lot of emerging markets, if that (LTE is less capex intensive than 3G).
Gen 9 games will again be an order of magnitude larger in terms of assets, possibly supporting 4K. Think 75-100GB downloads. Sony's EM strategy means they can't rely on DD only. You'll probably get 2 SKUs, one disc less one with disc for different regions.
Parapraxis
Member
EXACTLY, I wish at least one publisher would clarify, because at this point I don't trust many in the MS camp.
I'm pretty sure if Microsoft told for example EA that they were setting up a system where a user could buy ONE copy of Battlefield 4 and basically give the full game to 10 other people, causing them to run the risk of losing literally hundreds of thousands of sales, Microsoft would immediately be told that they would not be publishing on their platform.
No publisher in their right mind would have remained hush hush about such a plan or gone along with it.
Timed access to full games is the ONLY reasonable possibility.
The XBOX One was designed around the idea of getting rid of the used games market and going digital only, and ensuring publishers get every possible penny out of consumers (fees to sell games?? really?) Putting in a feature that would lose up to 10 sales per copy sold makes ZERO sense.
Some peopleare just too damn thick to think logically about this, and are seeing the world through green tinted glasses. They need to work on their critical thinking skills.
DragonSworne
Banned
You can still download digital games... How is it less appealing now? The fact you can play offline now?
It's kinda weird you acting like physical media won't be a thing in 7-8 years. Considering the billions it takes to roll out Internet infrastructure , and how many countries have shitty starting points for their broadband... Then consider the size of games in 7-8 years time. Digital will continue to become more and more commonplace , but all digital ? Not for a long long loooooong time.
I hope that's sarcasm.
Wating for comapnies to tell the truth ?
Don't make me laugh most of them try to let you being a sheep forever.
Well it's certainly not in "good faith" to paint it as people's constructive comments convincing you to change when they obviously know a lot of people were unhappy. There was no apology, nothing. This wasn't a situation where everyone was happy with MS and telling them "Hey you guys are cool, but here's a suggestion to make you guys even cooler." It's not "good faith" to respond to everyone's unhappy comments with comments like "hey people were unhappy when things needed electricity to work" or "if you don't have internet, we've got a product for you, the Xbox 360" or "in the end gamers will still choose us."
If you are indeed a juror you need to consider character evidence. MS has been caught making misleading comments and outright lies already and has an obvious motivation to lie. Cboat on the other hand, what is his motivation to lie? He has nothing to gain from it. Also his only mistake (as differentiated from a lie) so far is that he mistook one trailer for another, which he has apologized for. MS has not issued one apology for any of this.
MS screwed up their messaging so bad that folks are willingly discarding all logic and common sense just to ridicule them.
MS has been running a highly successful demo service on XBLA for nine years now. They didn't need to create this elaborate DRM system with tons of restrictions just to replicate what they've already been doing. No, not replicate, make it worse, because instead of promoting games to anyone who might be interested, it was going to be limited to your "family" however you choose to believe that was defined. Makes no sense.
I believe that the most likely outcome was closer to what the optimists thought and that would only be possible if the publishers got paid off with a cut of the used game sales AND a cut of the XBLG fees. And MS didn't promote it because they weren't finished with it. But what does it matter? The truth will be known in ten years when anything called a console will be 100% digital and some company tries it again.
MS has been running a highly successful demo service on XBLA for nine years now. They didn't need to create this elaborate DRM system with tons of restrictions just to replicate what they've already been doing. No, not replicate, make it worse, because instead of promoting games to anyone who might be interested, it was going to be limited to your "family" however you choose to believe that was defined. Makes no sense.
I believe that the most likely outcome was closer to what the optimists thought and that would only be possible if the publishers got paid off with a cut of the used game sales AND a cut of the XBLG fees. And MS didn't promote it because they weren't finished with it. But what does it matter? The truth will be known in ten years when anything called a console will be 100% digital and some company tries it again.
It makes perfect sense when $$$$$ is involved.
This. And another thing, if everything is in place they why not keep it there for digital purchases? Because we'd be proven right is why.
Also I'm a bit confused on the contradiction on the sharing. Initially I thought the Xbone was region locked, yet apparently you could share games with anyone anywhere...which is it?
Angelus Errare
Banned
The same armor that's been through space/water/being frozen, shot at by ballistics and plasma gets taken out by....sand?
DragonSworne
Banned
MS screwed up their messaging so bad that folks are willingly discarding all logic and common sense just to defend them.
MS has been running a successful disc based service for 12 years now, they didn't need to create this elaborate DRM system with tons of restictions just to replicate what they're already been doing. No, not replicate, make it worse, because instead of promoting games to anyone who might be interested, it was going to be limited to your "family" however you choose to believe that was defined. Makes no sense.
I dunno man! I don't follow Halo lore, I was just making a guess.
But from another thread I just read that Frankie said it is because Master Chief is hiding from something, so that seems to be a more logical reason given what you said
I'm a French model.
They had an entire MS Conference to explain. They had an entire E3 to explain. They had an entire 90 minute block of exclusive Microsoft E3 show time to explain, without interruption. They had an entire PR machine at their beck and call from May til this 19th to explain. How were they not allowed?
Jake Tower
Banned
bonesmccoy
Banned
I don't recall there really being trade-ins for PC games, nor a fully fledged used game market for PC at all.
DragonSworne
Banned
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Reading it like that its even more absurd that they never managed to actually tell people what the benefits were or what they could actually do with this system. I question whether it was even locked down at that point.
Master Chief hates sand. It's rough... and coarse... and it gets everywhere...
NoirVisage
Banned
The answer is actually pretty elegant, and was told to me by someone who's username escapes me..
camouflage. he's a big green metal dude, probably being hunted by a group of enemies, the fact sand is his primary environment makes his camouflage sound.
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