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[Patrick Bateman]

I can sort of understand Turkish people living in foreign countries. It's disappointing to never get fully accepted or included in the new country's society. I mean a "guest"-worker is someone that works and then is expected to leave after some time. It was never intended by the host countries like Germany and the Netherlands that they should stay.
Erdogan just seizes this disappointment of 2nd and 3rd generation Turks with his propaganda.

Nowadays you just can tell those people "Well, if you wanna follow/support Erdogan, go back to Turkey."

You have to blame e.g. the German government for not including Turkish immigrants better into society. If they had, nobody of them would listen to that crazy clown in Istanbul..

 

[-MB-]

It's the same as Trump. Lots of rural and religious Turks support him.

Lets be honest, Turkey had no chance to join. There was a time Turkey would have done its best and complied and be european, but too many EU members have had an irrational hatred for Turkey.
And to put it bluntly, it is because Turkey is a majority Muslim country.

The prejudicial rejection these countries posed, has driven Turkey right into the arms of danger. Turkey would have been a better member than a number of EU countries I can think of.

I fully agree to this, and been saying this for years. EU countries were never going to let them in, because they view them as not Europeans, and mostly because of their muslim leanings. And this goes well beyond the recent years of anti islam rethoric.

 

[His Majesty]

I can sort of understand Turkish people living in foreign countries. It's disappointing to never get fully accepted or included in the new country's society. I mean a "guest"-worker is someone that works and then is expected to leave after some time. It was never intended by the host countries like Germany and the Netherlands that they should stay.
Erdogan just seizes this disappointment of 2nd and 3rd generation Turks with his propaganda.

Nowadays you just can tell those people "Well, if you wanna follow/support Erdogan, go back to Turkey."

You have to blame e.g. the German government for not including Turkish immigrants better into society. If they had, nobody of them would listen to that crazy clown in Istanbul..

Integration is a two-way street. Plenty of examples of Turkish people who have integrated very well into German society. And they are often the loudest opponents of Erdogan.

 

[Diancecht]

Fuck Erdogan. We will show him what's what in the referendum. His days are numbered.

 

[norinrad]

It's the same as Trump. Lots of rural and religious Turks support him.

Lets be honest, Turkey had no chance to join. There was a time Turkey would have done its best and complied and be european, but too many EU members have had an irrational hatred for Turkey.
And to put it bluntly, it is because Turkey is a majority Muslim country.

The prejudicial rejection these countries posed, has driven Turkey right into the arms of danger. Turkey would have been a better member than a number of EU countries I can think of.

Name a few?

 

[SgtCobra]

maybe turkish people will finally wake up and see him for what he is then

Won't happen, they would give their lifes for him.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Integration is a two-way street. Plenty of examples of Turkish people who have integrated very well into German society. And they are often the loudest opponents of Erdogan.

Really? I always thought it was the other way.
I've never talked to a Turkish immigrant who spoke good German and had a higher education who supported Erdogan.
It's always the lesser educated with a lower income.

 

[Aiii]

Glad the election spine the VVD grows every four years is doing its job. Proud of my country.

 

[Veidt]

First of all, being located in the Europe is kind of important when accepting new members. What is more, PKK has a long history of disputes and conflicts which haven't been resolved. I am not even going to touch the subject of Northern Cyprus. I wonder how accepting a barely-Eu continent country with ongoing conflicts is rational to you.

It's kind of silly, that you're okay with Cyprus compared with Turkey partially based on the location of both countries. Also Cyprus, geographically located closer to the rest of Europe over Turkey? Just have a look at a world map.

Turkey was in the "arms of danger" long before EU was formed. And no, if Turkey was a member of EU, it would be in the bottom of the living standards and human rights. It would also be the most different as far as the culture and religion go. Give me that list of EU countries which are less fit to be part of EU than Turkey is.

Oh, there we go. There it is.
All cultures are different. Even within countries, there are different cultures. One isn't anymore alien or different than the other. Turkey is no more different culture wise than Cyprus. Unless your criteria is again, percentage of population that is religiously aligned with Islam. In which case, you should just say so. And be honest about it.

If the criteria for Turkey to join was to be a secularist country, and support for its secularist institutions was considered, it could have been prepared for a membership. Countries don't just join the EU in an instant, it takes time, precisely because as you say, there are a checklist of things you have to achieve. Including such things as securing civil and human rights in general.

 

[hEist]

wow, never expected such a decision. But like always the same reaction on the part of the Turkish foreign minister.

But to be honest, I am good that our government (germany) didn't ban them so far. Because I think that our democracy is "strong" enough to handle this kinda situation.
I don't know, I think that if you ban this "rallies", you are condescend to Erdogan.

I do understand, the people that they don't want this kind of rallies in our society / town, but I would like to see people demonstrating against this kinda rallies. Showing the Turkish foreign minister, what the public (in germany) thinks about the current situation in Turkey, instead of banning them. So far, there wasn't any real demonstration, while he was here.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Diancecht]

Btw this whole thing with Germany and the Netherlands is already working on Erdogan's favour in here. He and his fuckbois are acting like they are the victims and his base loves a good old victim play.

I am not saying Germany and the Netherlands should have allowed the fuckbois to have a rally in their country but turning the fuckbois worked in their favor, not ours (the other half of the country that hates Erdogan).

 

[CTLance]

Heh. Congrats, Netherlands. Watching Erdogan rage is surprisingly entertaining by now. Keep 'em coming!

Also: Nazis, Nazis everywhere! :-O

On the topic of Germany, I'm rather surprised how some in this thread wanted her, of all people, to leap into action.

Merkel is just doing her normal Merkel thing. Wait, utter some wriggle words (and thus delegate action to other parties) until things have solidified, then jump in to position herself accordingly. She'd never come out with guns akimbo. That's not how she rolls. Not now, not in the past. She'd never have survived politically to this day otherwise. She grew up under Kohl, fer chrissake. Stability and non-offensiveness paired with a cool head and a strong preference for realpolitik. That's her. No Sturm and Drang to be found.
That's why she has been elected for years and years.

Spoiler

And that's why she's rather vulnerable to someone like Schulz with his ideology- and change-oriented approach.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

This ban will only help Erdoğan/ AKP unfortunally. During this period they were pretty unsuccessful in explaining why Turkey needs a presidential system, so they resort to their old tricks. The mağdur (victim) card, something that works pretty well for especially AKP voters. Germany and now the Netherlands are doing exactly what Erdoğan wants.

 

[Veidt]

Name a few?

I mean, even just militarily, having the Turks on the side of Europe would be significant for a future EU army.

 

[Drencrom]

"Buhuhuh you guys are nazis & fascists!" cries the dictator when other countries doesn't put up with his shit. How quaint.

 

[norinrad]

I mean, even just militarily, having the Turks on the side of Europe would be significant for a future EU army.

Ah I see your point, it should be in the news of 2030, the EU bombs another PKK and other Kurds in Syria and within Turkey while continuing with oppression and denial of the Armanian genocide.

That would work great for the EU having a border all the way to Syria.

 

[Veidt]

Ah I see your point, it should be in the news of 2030, the EU bombs another PKK and other Kurds in Syria and within Turkey while continuing to deny oppression and denial of the Armanian genocide.

That would work great for the EU having a border all the way to Syria.

That's a valid point to have. If the point was to not have a physical border with an unstable region, then that is fair. But no one ever says this, and it isn't the reason they opposed Turkey, because this isn't what those EU members care about.

Edit:
There is no room for Turkey in the EU as it is now. It is past the point of no return.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

I'm Turkish. Stop embarrassing us Erdogan ffs. You sound like a man child.

 

[Shiggy]

Turkey in the EU would be a gigantic disaster. No sane person is in favour of that for the foreseeable future. The EU commission is already suggesting cutting pre-accession assistance as things are getting worse in the country.

 

[lightchris]

Btw this whole thing with Germany and the Netherlands is already working on Erdogan's favour in here. He and his fuckbois are acting like they are the victims and his base loves a good old victim play.

I am not saying Germany and the Netherlands should have allowed the fuckbois to have a rally in their country but turning the fuckbois worked in their favor, not ours (the other half of the country that hates Erdogan).

That's the sad truth. Even parts of the Turkish population who aren't in favor of Erdogan seem to think it would be better to not ban them from rallying (personally I don't get it, but I've heard that a lot).

I think the best way would be to do actively do something instead of just reacting to whatever Erdogan comes up with next. Cem Özdemir of the green party in Germany suggested something like this: If they want to do a rally here, we could allow them to, but we should dictate the terms and want to see signs of good-will. Like, releasing detained journalists, or allowding our own politicians to hold a speech in Turkey. He would have to react in some way at least; if he shows no cooperation, part of the Turkish people might recognize him for his double standards. Or maybe not, but it wouldn't be worse then just saying they can or can't hold rallies here.

 

[KDR_11k]

Btw this whole thing with Germany and the Netherlands is already working on Erdogan's favour in here. He and his fuckbois are acting like they are the victims and his base loves a good old victim play.

I am not saying Germany and the Netherlands should have allowed the fuckbois to have a rally in their country but turning the fuckbois worked in their favor, not ours (the other half of the country that hates Erdogan).

Would they have benefited less from holding the rallies? I bet they'd find something else to call oppression then.

 

[TTOOLL]

I mean, even just militarily, having the Turks on the side of Europe would be significant for a future EU army.

Future EU army? I think you are in for a surprise.

 

[Osla]

Maybe we should rethink the double-passport policy? Is that a right-wing thought?

Personally I don't see why they couldn't organise rallies here, since there are Turkish voters here. (Well actually Turkish law forbids it, it seems!) They could've asked nicely though. To ban them because we don't agree with their political system seems a bit belittling to me. I would hope Turkish/Dutch citizens are still able to make up their own mind.

That said, the Turkish government reaction is a bit unsettling.

 

[Carn82]

Maybe we should rethink the double-passport policy? Is that a right-wing thought?

Personally I don't see why they couldn't organise rallies here, since there are Turkish voters here. (Well actually Turkish law forbids it, it seems!) They could've asked nicely though. To ban them because we don't agree with their political system seems a bit belittling to me. I would hope Turkish/Dutch citizens are still able to make up their own mind.

That said, the Turkish government reaction is a bit unsettling.

They dont have a proper political system. That's the whole point. Erdogan is on his way to becoming a dictator, the rallies are about a referendum giving him more control.

 

[Osla]

They dont have a proper political system. That's the whole point. Erdogan is on his way to becoming a dictator, the rallies are about a referendum giving him more control.

I know, and who knows, maybe the Turks here would then understand that better seeing the madman in action here. Probably naive, right.

 

[TatteredHat]

Btw this whole thing with Germany and the Netherlands is already working on Erdogan's favour in here. He and his fuckbois are acting like they are the victims and his base loves a good old victim play.

I am not saying Germany and the Netherlands should have allowed the fuckbois to have a rally in their country but turning the fuckbois worked in their favor, not ours (the other half of the country that hates Erdogan).

It's the same over here with Wilders though, he's saying the government stepped in because of his complaints, if they hadn't stepped in he would have used that as justification for pushing his isolationist policies instead. "Muslim governments are preaching on our sovereign soil!"

Better off just telling the Turkish foreign minister to take a hike, in that regard it was gonna be lose/lose anyway.

 

[Condom]

Good. They could have campaigned with non-government people but just risked their reputation and economy for nothing. The Achilles heel of populism at display.

 

[UglyPony]

Good job Netherlands.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Fuck Erdogan. We will show him what's what in the referendum. His days are numbered.

I would love to believe this.

 

[Facism]

First of all, being located in the Europe is kind of important when accepting new members. What is more, PKK has a long history of disputes and conflicts which haven't been resolved. I am not even going to touch the subject of Northern Cyprus. I wonder how accepting a barely-Eu continent country with ongoing conflicts is rational to you.
.

Please, touch northern Cyprus. As a son of 2 people who suffered through massacre and displacement before the Turks even came to save us, i'd love to know what your angle is.

 

[elrechazado]

so when is this guys term over again ?

Ahahahahahahah

 

[Turbo Killer]

Just deport their asses back to fucking turkey if they love dear leader so much.

 

[Mivey]

so when is this guys term over again ?

Terms? Where we're going we won't need "terms".

 

[Evolution of Metal]

It's kind of silly, that you're okay with Cyprus compared with Turkey partially based on the location of both countries. Also Cyprus, geographically located closer to the rest of Europe over Turkey? Just have a look at a world map.

Oh, there we go. There it is.
All cultures are different. Even within countries, there are different cultures. One isn't anymore alien or different than the other. Turkey is no more different culture wise than Cyprus. Unless your criteria is again, percentage of population that is religiously aligned with Islam. In which case, you should just say so. And be honest about it.

If the criteria for Turkey to join was to be a secularist country, and support for its secularist institutions was considered, it could have been prepared for a membership. Countries don't just join the EU in an instant, it takes time, precisely because as you say, there are a checklist of things you have to achieve. Including such things as securing civil and human rights in general.

I am not talking about the Cyprus joining EU. EU is not supporting the invasion of Cyprus, so why would they accept the member which currently occupies a portion of another country? It is the situation which needs a definitive resolution before Turkey can join EU. Last thing we need is two EU members clashing with each other.

We don't hear about Turkey making any progress when it comes to disputes with Greece, demilitarization of Cyprus, resolution with Kurds, Armenian Genocide recognition and other things.

Yes, they are. It is easier for someone from Eastern Europe to integrate into the western societies, but even that isn't working as well as it should. If you share the same language, values, and activities, it is easier to integrate. You go from the USA to Canada and it shouldn't feel alien. You go from the USA to India and there are various barriers such as language, culture, food, laws, etiquette, religion. European countries themselves need more time to form a united Europe. I think Turks could integrate, but not as fast as Pols.

I don't want Turkey to join EU. It is a huge nation underdeveloped (compared to the rest of EU) nation which would take a large amount of capital to get up to Eastern European level, meanwhile, Turks would emigrate to wealthy countries while the unemployment problems aren't yet solved. Looking at stats it shows that the Turkey is 17.5% of the entire EU population. Could you explain how Turkey could benefit EU at this moment in time?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I mean, even just militarily, having the Turks on the side of Europe would be significant for a future EU army.

Yeah, or why not Belarus while we're at it? We can never have enough dicators in the EU

 

[Alebrije]

I don't understand why the Turkish people keep voting him in, and that he has tons of supporters amongst Turks living abroad. You once had the chance to join the EU, and then you give this guy power...

 

[Blablurn]

Nice!

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

What was the rationale for that?

Edit: nvm

 

[SilentRacoon]

Erdogan really is fond of comparing everybody to Nazis, huh?

Really makes you think.

He is projecting, that's the fascist way of rolling, just like republicans.

 

[Veidt]

I am not talking about the Cyprus joining EU. EU is not supporting the invasion of Cyprus, so why would they accept the member which currently occupies a portion of another country? It is the situation which needs a definitive resolution before Turkey can join EU. Last thing we need is two EU members clashing with each other.

We don't hear about Turkey making any progress when it comes to disputes with Greece, demilitarization of Cyprus, resolution with Kurds, Armenian Genocide recognition and other things.

Yes, they are. It is easier for someone from Eastern Europe to integrate into the western societies, but even that isn't working as well as it should. If you share the same language, values, and activities, it is easier to integrate. You go from the USA to Canada and it shouldn't feel alien. You go from the USA to India and there are various barriers such as language, culture, food, laws, etiquette, religion. European countries themselves need more time to form a united Europe. I think Turks could integrate, but not as fast as Pols.

I don't want Turkey to join EU. It is a huge nation underdeveloped (compared to the rest of EU) nation which would take a large amount of capital to get up to Eastern European level, meanwhile, Turks would emigrate to wealthy countries while the unemployment problems aren't yet solved. Looking at stats it shows that the Turkey is 17.5% of the entire EU population. Could you explain how Turkey could benefit EU at this moment in time?

I agree. Turkey joining to EU right now in its current state would be a disaster.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Good on the Netherlands.

I just wish I hadn't wasted my whole youth growing up under the rule of these Islamist assholes. Well, at least I'm one of the lucky few born to rich enough parents that I can go abroad for university and establish a life in a civilized country.

Also, y'all played into his hands because to his supporters this is just the evil greedy two-faced Europeans trying all they can to stop the progress of their almighty Erdogan because they're afraid of Turkey (and /or Muslims) becoming a global superpower. (Check BBC's article on this)

 

[WingM@n]

Turkey said they won't Give up and send another minister by car. I hope they can stop her as well from entering the Netherlands. Fuck erdolf

 

[Nerazar]

"Buhuhuh you guys are nazis & fascists!" cries the dictator when other countries doesn't put up with his shit. How quaint.

The problem is that his words align pretty neatly to the Kremlin's wording of their perceived enemies. Could be a sign that Erdogan has been vassalized by Putin.

 

[Zevenberge]

Turkey said they won't Give up and send another minister by car. I hope they can stop her as well from entering the Netherlands. Fuck erdolf

We'll keep blocking them until they either run out of ministers or come by bike.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I am not talking about the Cyprus joining EU. EU is not supporting the invasion of Cyprus, so why would they accept the member which currently occupies a portion of another country? It is the situation which needs a definitive resolution before Turkey can join EU. Last thing we need is two EU members clashing with each other.

We don't hear about Turkey making any progress when it comes to disputes with Greece, demilitarization of Cyprus, resolution with Kurds, Armenian Genocide recognition and other things.

Yes, they are. It is easier for someone from Eastern Europe to integrate into the western societies, but even that isn't working as well as it should. If you share the same language, values, and activities, it is easier to integrate. You go from the USA to Canada and it shouldn't feel alien. You go from the USA to India and there are various barriers such as language, culture, food, laws, etiquette, religion. European countries themselves need more time to form a united Europe. I think Turks could integrate, but not as fast as Pols.

I don't want Turkey to join EU. It is a huge nation underdeveloped (compared to the rest of EU) nation which would take a large amount of capital to get up to Eastern European level, meanwhile, Turks would emigrate to wealthy countries while the unemployment problems aren't yet solved. Looking at stats it shows that the Turkey is 17.5% of the entire EU population. Could you explain how Turkey could benefit EU at this moment in time?

He's not saying it should join the EU, he's saying the door on it should've never been shut simply because it's "not European"/Muslim. When the door was still open, it gave them a reason to try to improve their condition and not fall into autocracy.

 

[Lucumo]

We'll keep blocking them until they either run out of ministers or come by bike.

Nah, you need to block them until they decide to dig a tunnel to get into the Netherlands.

 

[Diancecht]

Turkey said they won't Give up and send another minister by car. I hope they can stop her as well from entering the Netherlands. Fuck erdolf

Turkish news site reporting that Netherlands police blocked the street so she can't drive her car.

 

[Kurtofan]

its crazy. imagine germany or any other country doing rallies in your country.

it happened during the thirties

 

[IdreamofHIME]

so when is this guys term over again ?

Maybe read the article?
These rallies around Europe are to strengthen support for an upcoming referendum to give him more power and make his removal much more difficult.
I can understand why the Dutch banned it, they are literally rallies to create a dictator.

 

[Ogodei]

Turkey had no chance but they also never fulfilled all the qualifications to do so. Racist propaganda has always been prominent against Turkey but not becoming part of the EU has not brought Erdogan into power. The EU didn't even stop Viktor Orban.

EU needs to take a stand against the nationalists like that, since they're opposed to everything the EU stands for. Not stomping on Orban is what lets folks like Le Pen bubble up.