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[Mpl90]

In the extreme case it's indeed digital only, how to make retailers happy? Easy.

Amiibo game packs! You buy it, you get at home, you scan the amiibo, you get to unlock the game related to the amiibo (one-time-operation, cannot be repeated), and the download starts. Physical presence for both customers and retailers + selling games digitally. Best of both worlds!

I still hope they become a thing if (higher chances) devices of the NX family still have physical support.

 

[Speedwagon]

Faster load times, shared physical media format with the handheld.

You can write to them, so saves go on there as well as DLC, depending on how much extra space there is.

Reduces heat production, too

Spoiler

which reduces fan requirements, which in turn reduces noise

 

[The_Lump]

From an actual hardware perspective PS2 was complete garbage. The lasers were weak and would die out when reading progressive scan games like GTA San Andreas after long periods of play. The console itself was just junk.

And yet mine is still chugging along nicely

Meanwhile,3x PS3s later...

 

[Schnozberry]

I don't think SD Cards are as expensive a gamble to hold games as one would anticipate, especially if they do not need to have the ability for high speed sustained writes. That's where Flash gets expensive. Games on SD cards for installation purposes makes a lot of sense. It allows you to reinstall or redownload if you need to delete them to save space, and if Nintendo has sophisticated enough activation and deactivation through their account system, they could enable retailers to check activation status through QR codes on the label or online serial entry.

 

[sinxtanx]

The processor includes some type of authentication unit, but I'm still fuzzy on that.

Seems like the thing that determines what game code to run depending on which hardware it's running on

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I would love that actually.

Me too.

 

[Nosgoroth]

Oh I see, so in place of NFC chip with your account info? I guess so. I think NFC is a bit more flexible though, and probably more secure. You could link your console to your (NFC enabled) phone and just scan your phone at check-out to trigger a download to your account, for example.

It's pretty much the same thing. Either via imaging or via NFC what you'd be doing is deliver some sort of signed token to the store system that they can use against Nintendo servers to identify you securely and then add the game to your account. You'd only be changing the way of delivering the payload, but after that what needs to happen is the same.

Come to think of if, you could also use your already-authenticated NFC-enabled NX-portable-thing for the same task with a minimum of hassle. Or perhaps even a n3DS.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Wouldn't that be redundant without physical media for games? If you have the DD-only SKU then you have to have good enough internet and if you have the disc SKU you might as well have the updates on the disc?

It could make sense if the handheld was DD-only but if Japan's DD adoption is a concern it would be an even bigger problem for a handheld.

Also how would the SD Cards reach consumers: Given away at retail? Sold at retail? Would it be a separate card every time the OS updates?

Yeah, lots of unanswered questions. But apropos to the redundancy issue, I imagine the inclusion is to keep the different skus as similar as possible. Same reason the HDD would use the same connector as the optical drive across skus. They literally have one component to swap in/out.

 

[GDGF]

Cartridges are cool except for when there are literally 3 dozen copies of Ninjago DS in the bargain bin. Retailers eat that cost and then order way less cartridges for the next similar game.

It would be pretty cool if Nintendo could allow retailers to order (well tracked) blank carts and allow them to write/rewrite games. They could then sell based on demand instead of guesswork.

 

[Mpl90]

The OP is very, very intense to read...I hope there's going to be a decent summary in the thread, with all the major points about the patents soon.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

I don't understand this =/ Can someone summarize for me? Is the main thing here that it won't have a disc drive? Am I missing anything else?

 

[Game Guru]

Works for Apple.

It depends on how much sales the hardware does.

If you know your Apple history, you'd know there was a time pre-iPod where Apple was treated like crap by every big box retailer, and Apple cut ties with the vast majority of them. Even the retailers that were left weren't selling Apple products like Steve Jobs thought they should and this eventually led to the creation of the Apple Store. It was this environment, where Apple was their own retailer, that the iPod itself was released in and put Apple on their path to domination.

Basically, Apple had cut off ties with most of their retailers and became their own retailer prior to the release of the iPod. And this was a more successful strategy for Apple at the time than working with the reluctant retailers. Apple, in fact, proves his point. However, Apple also proves that it is possible to still succeed when your company is its own retailer, especially when it is at a extreme low point like Apple was then and Nintendo is now.

 

[Oregano]

Yeah, lots of unanswered questions. But apropos to the redundancy issue, I imagine the inclusion is to keep the different skus as similar as possible. Same reason the HDD would use the same connector as the optical drive across skus. They literally have one component to swap in/out.

Hmm that makes sense but that would be a shame because it would mean they would lose a big benefit of no optical media(more internal real estate).

 

[sinxtanx]

The OP is very, very intense to read...I hope there's going to be a decent summary in the thread, with all the major points about the patents soon.

I don't understand this =/ Can someone summarize for me? Is the main thing here that it won't have a disc drive? Am I missing anything else?

Nobody done that yet? I'll see if I can hammer something out

 

[Maintenance]

I'm not trying to troll or anything like that, but goddamn I just realized that if they go full digital, the spin Nintendo fans will do will be incredible. One should harness that and the whole world would have free clean energy.

and if Nintendo has sophisticated enough activation and deactivation through their account system

Nintendo with a sophisticated account system? What year is it? 2364?

 

[Abounder]

I don't think SD Cards are as expensive a gamble to hold games as one would anticipate, especially if they do not need to have the ability for high speed sustained writes. That's where Flash gets expensive. Games on SD cards for installation purposes makes a lot of sense. It allows you to reinstall or redownload if you need to delete them to save space, and if Nintendo has sophisticated enough activation and deactivation through their account system, they could enable retailers to check activation status through QR codes on the label or online serial entry.

Retail shelfspace and shipping would also be great for SD Card 'carts', as long as they weren't bulky

 

[Fourth Storm]

I don't understand this =/ Can someone summarize for me? Is the main thing here that it won't have a disc drive? Am I missing anything else?

Someone else will have to do a detailed summary, but it seems to describe:

• A system without an optical drive (but it mentions compatibility w/ a system that does have one)
  
• Games are downloaded over the internet and stored on an HDD.
  
• The OS is stored on a separate internal flash memory.
  
• A second intenal flash memory is used to back up important data, such as game saves.
  
• Memory card reader (SD cards mentioned) included w/ the use of providing OS updates to those without an internet connection.
  
• Speed control unit is used to put HDD into high or low speed read/write modes. Still fuzzy on this, but it seems that the internal HDD, in some instances, may need to lower the speed to match an external HDD or optical drive.
  
• The controller has a screen and is charged via cable connected to the console itself via an internal PSU.
  
• A storage medium which includes several different sets of code, each for a different hardware configuration. The console's processor has an ID unit and Selection Unit, which is used to choose which of the code sets to run on that hardware.

Those are the major things I took away, although I may have missed something.

 

[sörine]

Cartridges are cool except for when there are literally 3 dozen copies of Ninjago DS in the bargain bin. Retailers eat that cost and then order way less cartridges for the next similar game.

You act like this doesn't happen with discs exactly the same way. Retailer margins are built in regardless of media.

 

[Neoxon]

I don't think SD Cards are as expensive a gamble to hold games as one would anticipate, especially if they do not need to have the ability for high speed sustained writes. That's where Flash gets expensive. Games on SD cards for installation purposes makes a lot of sense. It allows you to reinstall or redownload if you need to delete them to save space, and if Nintendo has sophisticated enough activation and deactivation through their account system, they could enable retailers to check activation status through QR codes on the label or online serial entry.

Isn't that what Microsoft was trying to do with the Xbox One?

 

[watershed]

It would be cool if I could buy a cartridge game for the NX and use it in a portable and console model.

 

[The_Lump]

It's pretty much the same thing. Either via imaging or via NFC what you'd be doing is deliver some sort of signed token to the store system that they can use against Nintendo servers to identify you securely and then add the game to your account. You'd only be changing the way of delivering the payload, but after that what needs to happen is the same.

Come to think of if, you could also use your already-authenticated NFC-enabled NX-portable-thing for the same task with a minimum of hassle. Or perhaps even a n3DS.

Yeah, assuming it's portable then that's definitely the easier option!

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I'm sure even if there is no optical media, it'll support some sort of cart/memory card delivery. But fortunately for me, I don't care either way. They could not sell physical games at all and I'd still be on board. I'm like 90% digital as is on the 3DS and Wii U.

Wii U games are usually at least 10 GBs, is a 10 GB cart expensive in comparison to a blu ray?

 

[hunnies28]

I'd love to play 3DS games on my TV.

MH4U with a controller and a TV, yes please.

 

[FyreWulff]

You guys keep thinking downloadable, but they're going back to carts.

This would be the best thing ever. They're still the superior storage format for games.

But only if they've figured out the lead-time and minimum-buy issues that come with them.

Unfortunately, the fact that any modern console needs to allow digital sales means games would have to be set up to work under HDD speeds anyway.

 

[The_Lump]

Someone else will have to do a detailed summary, but it seems to describe:

• A system without an optical drive (but it mentions compatibility w/ a system that does have one)
  
• Games are downloaded over the internet and stored on an HDD.
  
• The OS is stored on a separate internal flash memory.
  
• A second intenal flash memory is used to back up important data, such as game saves.
  
• Memory card reader (SD cards mentioned) included w/ the use of providing OS updates to those without an internet connection.
  
• Speed control unit is used to put HDD into high or low speed read/write modes. Still fuzzy on this, but it seems that the internal HDD, in some instances, may need to lower the speed to match an external HDD or optical drive.
  
• The controller has a screen and is charged via cable connected to the console itself via an internal PSU.

Those are the major things I took away, although I may have missed something.

Ah, I only saw that in the diagram listed on the Processor, didn't read that it was relating to HDD. Makes more sense now.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

[*]Games are downloaded over the internet and stored on an HDD.

Thanks for the summary! But if this is the case, why were a bunch of people talking about Nintendo moving to carts/SD cards for the games?

 

[test_account]

Reduces heat production, too

Spoiler

which reduces fan requirements, which in turn reduces noise

I dont think that a disc drive produce much heat.

 

[Oregano]

Isn't that what Microsoft was trying to do with the Xbox One?

I'm fairly sure people were more concerned about the always online thing or online authentication required every 24 hours.

XBO games already require installs to function.

 

[entremet]

I dont think that a disc drive produce much heat.

No much these days since they install. The discs are just DRM.

 

[Neoxon]

Thanks for the summary! But if this is the case, why were a bunch of people talking about Nintendo moving to carts/SD cards for the games?

Because the Wii U can already download games over the internet. Plus there's the memory card to consider.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Thanks for the summary! But if this is the case, why were a bunch of people talking about Nintendo moving to carts/SD cards for the games?

NP. There is other stuff in there that I don't have the time or attention to break down atm. I think the cartridge talk is due to the patent being obtuse, as most patents are. Additionally, there has been alot of speculation that Nintendo would go back to carts in order to have games play on both stationary console and handheld.

 

[Squall5042]

So is the consensus, if this were to be close to the final product of the device, that the game card would primarily be the portable version of the game and you download an upgrade to your home-NX?

Whelp, guess not lol

 

[Obliterator]

Someone else will have to do a detailed summary, but it seems to describe:

• A system without an optical drive (but it mentions compatibility w/ a system that does have one)
  
• Games are downloaded over the internet and stored on an HDD.
  
• The OS is stored on a separate internal flash memory.
  
• A second intenal flash memory is used to back up important data, such as game saves.
  
• Memory card reader (SD cards mentioned) included w/ the use of providing OS updates to those without an internet connection.
  
• Speed control unit is used to put HDD into high or low speed read/write modes. Still fuzzy on this, but it seems that the internal HDD, in some instances, may need to lower the speed to match an external HDD or optical drive.
  
• The controller has a screen and is charged via cable connected to the console itself via an internal PSU.

Those are the major things I took away, although I may have missed something.

It reads to me like a system that is meant to be and designed for primarily being online at all times but some work arounds being there for people that won't connect.

Idk reads to me like the main way to get games is going to be via download not that there will be SD cartridges as the main way of delivering software

 

[Escalario]

So is the consensus, if this were to be close to the final product of the device, that the game card would primarily be the portable version of the game and you download an upgrade to your home-NX?

That or portable version of the game is playable from the get go, while the console version is compressed to hell and back and needs a mandatory install to the HDD.

 

[AmyS]

IGN picked this up:

Nintendo has filed a patent for a console that has no optical disk drive.

The patent, spotted by NeoGAF user Rosti, shows a rough schematic of a console that, according to the patent filing's abstract, "is not provided with an optical disk drive" for reading game data from a disc.

Instead, the patent shows games stored on a hard drive, and further cites "high-speed communication such as ADSL (Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line) or optical communication," such as high-speed fiber internet, as a delivery method for game data. The patent says this will allow a server "to distribute a game program to a game apparatus," and cites the benefit to the consumer of not needing to purchase "a recording medium."

The language could mean Nintendo is planning for an all-digital future, but it also doesn't rule out the possibility of some sort of game-streaming service, either.

However, while the console in the patent doesn't include an optical drive, it does mention a read/write card slot that can read from devices "such as an SD memory card."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/21/nintendo-files-patent-for-console-with-no-optical-drive

 

[iBlue]

So if i buy the cartrige and put it on my NX, the Digital copy will start downloading and be attached to my account?

 

[Koozek]

Someone else will have to do a detailed summary, but it seems to describe:

• A system without an optical drive (but it mentions compatibility w/ a system that does have one)
  
• Games are downloaded over the internet and stored on an HDD.
  
• The OS is stored on a separate internal flash memory.
  
• A second intenal flash memory is used to back up important data, such as game saves.
  
• Memory card reader (SD cards mentioned) included w/ the use of providing OS updates to those without an internet connection.
  
• Speed control unit is used to put HDD into high or low speed read/write modes. Still fuzzy on this, but it seems that the internal HDD, in some instances, may need to lower the speed to match an external HDD or optical drive.
  
  [*]The controller has a screen and is charged via cable connected to the console itself via an internal PSU.

Those are the major things I took away, although I may have missed something.

Could that be the other "Game System" aka. the Handheld SKU that can also be used as a controller for the stationary system?
I don't know if it's a good idea to again have a Gamepad, which will only raise the price, unless it's optional for those who want Off-TV Play. Though, why not just have the Handheld be used for Off-TV Play, if you're already paying probably >100$ for a seperate Gamepad?

 

[test_account]

No much these days since they install. The discs are just DRM.

True, although i dont think it has been a heat issue before either.

Retail shelfspace and shipping would also be great for SD Card 'carts', as long as they weren't bulky

They will probably be bulky to get shelf exposure.

 

[ec0ec0]

why is everyone talking about cartridges!? Reading that OP took me a while but i never saw the terms "game program" and "cart" mentioned together?

 

[Squall5042]

That or portable version of the game is playable from the get go, while the console version is compressed to hell and back and needs a mandatory install to the HDD.

Oh ok, that's pretty much what I was saying except terribly worded.

 

[jeffers]

IGN picked this up:



http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/21/nintendo-files-patent-for-console-with-no-optical-drive

Eurogamer did as well, calling it an NX patent... *sigh*

 

[Neoxon]

why is everyone talking about cartridges!? Reading that OP took me a while but i never saw the terms "game program" and "cart" mentioned together?

It's the memory card that's shown in the patent.

 

[Bowl0l]

Maybe a cheap Wii U without a disk drive, similar to the Wii Mini which stripped out WiFi and the GCN?

WiiU Mini incoming

 

[Obliterator]

Eurogamer did as well, calling it an NX patent... *sigh*

It more than likely is an NX patent. This wouldn't be the first time we've learned hardware details about Nintendo from patent listings.

NX has to be well in development. I'm fully confident its launching in 2016

 

[Peterc]

They could release a wiiu without disc drive with mario maker inluded (one package), and sell it for 150$. It will be much cheaper for them to build it.

It's not the first time that nintendo will try something on the current console before implementing it on the next one.


The only question is, what will make NX a better experience then the rest?
Iwata said that the system is magic and will do something new that has never seen before, but what?

I'm sure the controller wil not have a big screen again, maybe a small one that fits on a normal controller.

 

[Teuoxton]

I'm not up to date on SD card speeds, can a 64GB one approach modern HDD speeds? If that is the case I can see some huge games being made available.

64Gb is large enough to hold almost every game out right now, and if longevity can match old cartridges we are in for a treat. No more worries about scratches on the disc either!

 

[NeoRausch]

I just want to smash a hefty cartridge into the slot of my console!
All that sexual innuendo!

 

[jeffers]

It more than likely is an NX patent. This wouldn't be the first time we've learned hardware details about Nintendo from patent listings.

NX has to be well in development. I'm fully confident its launching in 2016

Sure, 'likely'. companies tend to take a scatter approach to patents though, so its still possible itll never be anything. hence you dont title your article, and reference throughout, like this is a design document for the NX - especially given the sensitive topic of download only consoles/always online.

edit: and especially given its not a full picture. e.g. what Fourth said that there could be an optical drive variant. but nuance tends to be lost by these rushed articles.

 

[Oregano]

Could that be the other "Game System" aka. the Handheld SKU that can also be used as a controller for the stationary system?
I don't know if it's a good idea to again have a Gamepad, which will only raise the price, unless it's optional for those who want Off-TV Play. Though, why not just have the Handheld be used for Off-TV Play, if you're already paying probably >100$ for a seperate Gamepad?

You could allow the handheld to do that but you could also use the parts of the handheld to make a controller which would have reduced costs compared to the Gamepad. If the Gamepad used the 3DS' screens and buttons(and shell) it would cost a lot less.

It's also interesting to note that the Gamepad's video decoder is apparently used in the N3DS already.

 

[Gamezone]

Sorry, but I will always refuse to buy games on closed consoles. My digital PC games will probably be there until the day I die, but online support for each console will probably shut down way before that happens. Physical media is still the way most us buy games these days, so it's too early to do this on consoles.