A Link to the Past
Banned
MMaRsu, there are many female gamers.
...Yeah?
Because it totally makes sense right?
...Yeah?
Because it totally makes sense right?
I'm of the opinion that female and minority protagonists shouldn't be shoehorned into a game. I prefer something natural as opposed to some contrivance meant to appeal to a vocal community. Just my opinion. If your game was made in mind with having a minority/female/transexual lead great, if it wasn't, don't alter your vision for the sake winning press or the respect of gamers.
Really?
50% of the world are women, 3% of games at E3 had female leads and you can't see whats wrong with it?
MMaRsu, there are many female gamers.
...Yeah?
I feel it's a little disingenuous to gloss over games that let you choose a gender (and thus fall under 'either'), but have a female as default. I get that you don't want to overcomplicate your pie chart, but those games, like ME: Andromeda, should still count in my opinion. There was a lady protagonist in the trailer and everything. Giving players a default female protagonist but also giving them the option of going male should not be seen as feminist-neutral or feminist-unfriendly, but right now it seems like it is viewed as neutral at best.
I know there are many female gamers. Its just that the number of male gamers probably vastly outnumbers the female gamers.
And there's nothing wrong with that. I just think females on the whole are less interested in videogames, at least in my 29 years of living this has been my experience.
Depends on what you think is good. Having playable female leads or having games where you only can play a female.MMaRsu, there are many female gamers.
...Yeah?
But they don't. The variance between male and female gamers is like, eight percent, at best.
Well some would argue that this has a lot to do with the way games are designed and presented. A lot of women play videogames but perhaps even more would if they had stories and characters they could relate to more.I know there are many female gamers. Its just that the number of male gamers probably vastly outnumbers the female gamers.
And there's nothing wrong with that. I just think females on the whole are less interested in videogames, at least in my 29 years of living this has been my experience.
But they don't. The variance between male and female gamers is like, eight percent, at best.
But they don't. The variance between male and female gamers is like, eight percent, at best.
Well some would argue that this has a lot to do with the way games are designed and presented. A lot of women play videogames but perhaps even more would if they had stories and characters they could relate to more.
Depends on what you think is good. Having playable female leads or having games where you only can play a female.
One sounds reasonable, the other kinda extreme.
And maybe it has something to do with the country I live in ( The Netherlands ) but I've not met a lot of women who are into videogames. Doesnt mean they dont exist, just that in my experience almost every guy plays videogames but women rarely do.
If I'm reading your post right, I don't think you are correct. 41% of games feature exclusively male protagonists, not 97%. There are other categories (either and n/a).
I'm of the opinion that female and minority protagonists shouldn't be shoehorned into a game. I prefer something natural as opposed to some contrivance meant to appeal to a vocal community. Just my opinion. If your game was made in mind with having a minority/female/transexual lead great, if it wasn't, don't alter your vision for the sake winning press or the respect of gamers.
As I said, it's great that we have so many games where it's a choice. I even said that i LOVE that. In half of the games shown on the big stage it's completely up to you what you want to play as (binary gender wise). The "doesn't matter" part is just about how it's shown in the game. There is no difference at all between a female protag and a male protag, it's just a skin. Of course it matters to me that I can choose to play a female, but the choice is just what skin I want to put onto Protag X.A couple things here:
I get what you are trying to say, but to say female characters with "female stories" makes it sound to me like you are saying the stories need to be "girly" which would no doubt be a different look for video games and a breath of fresh air, ultimately I think there are people that would take that negatively, the tacit implication being that female characters can't save the world and the like. Case in point, you say here "Not games where a female is randomly put into the story...[and their gender doesn't matter]" and yet earlier in this thread someone said something in a similar vein about "shoehorning" in female characters, i.e. just inserting a female protag into a game that otherwise their gender doesn't matter, and they were taken to task for it.
I would venture to guess it's situations like these that also lead to dedicated female protags still being a rarity. From a business perspective, publishers look at it and think "well, no one ever went wrong making their main character male" and from a purely sales perspective, that's probably mostly accurate. On the other hand, some people who want a female protagonist just want the ability to play as a female, some want a female-specific lead where she does all the stuff a male protagonist would do (an Ellen Ripley type heroine), and some want a female protagonist in a female-centric setting or situation and each group is not thrilled at the idea of a game of the other type female lead.
But they don't. The variance between male and female gamers is like, eight percent, at best.
If we're talking about console owners, there is actually a five percent difference between men and women
Except that more console owners are women
http://www.themarysue.com/game-console-demographics/
Extreme? Does "Having games where you can only play as a male" sound extreme to you as well? Because that's probably 95% of games.
Gee one might wonder why this is the case.
You know, posting over and over that dubious poll doesn't really help anybody, since if women were actually 52% of gamers, it would imply they are more than fine with the status quo and the current industry.
This is US only, and what is the sample size?
The world is not just the US, and neither is the market where videogames sell.
Isn't being able to choose gender at least as good a sign of equality than having only a female protagonist? It seems to me that we have actually come a long way in that regard. Games like Dishonered 2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda having both, but focusing on the female lead are good examples of this.
It's not because one of the main points is that in Andromeda, men still have an option of being men. This is not a problem, but it does not count for the sake of this discussion because it's focusing on how much more often games only offer a man as an option vs. games that only offer a woman as an option.
Thanks, misread the OP.
I get that when you look at gender-exclusive games, there's a very large gap that needs adressing. However, not counting Mass Effect: Andromeda, a game that features a female protagonist and still offers the option of playing as a man, is being far too strict. What's not good enough about the way Andromeda does it? That game is including men. That is in no way unfriendly to women.
No prob.
Don't telephone polls skew towards household ownership?If we're talking about console owners, there is actually a five percent difference between men and women
Except that more console owners are women
http://www.themarysue.com/game-console-demographics/
This is US only, and what is the sample size?
The world is not just the US, and neither is the market where videogames sell.
well, the issue is: Nathan Drake is a well established character. Uncharted tells the Story of Nathan Drake. Same goes for Kratos, Joel, etc.
"female avatar from Dark Souls" is not a character.
I havent looked into it, and maybe that study is worthwhile but once again, what is the sample size?
I just find it hard to believe that worldwide there is such a low discrepancy between female and male gamers who own and actively play console games.
Don't telephone polls skew towards household ownership?
Uh, okay? Most people, regardless of gender, race, whatever, are people who work to upheave the status quo. I've no idea why you think this inherently implies a negative thing, or makes women look worse. It's reflective of people usually not caring.
But it doesn't fit the criteria, so it isn't included. The point is to address the massive disparity.
That is the reason why games had primarly white guys, signs of women got erased from coverarts and playable women as option got dropped.
The thing is, some gender select games do a very good job making the protagonist into a fleshed out character both ways. I played all of the Mass Effects as Fem Shep and it never made a difference to me that there was a Male Shep. I will always think of the main character in that game as a badass woman who didn't take any crap, saved the galaxy, and flirted up some aliens. I think the real issue is that these games often market the male character, and therefore don't defy the norm that we often think of heroes as male. But to say that gender selectable characters are only "avatars" is overlooking some really great work being done in the industry. Not every game is Skyrim.
If we're talking about console owners, there is actually a five percent difference between men and women
Except that more console owners are women
http://www.themarysue.com/game-console-demographics/
You can enjoy something and still think it and the stuff around it is a bit problematic. I can enjoy games and at the same time try to express that I would love more games made with a female perspective in mind (without changing the current games to be that, just making even more games).You know, posting over and over that dubious poll doesn't really help anybody, since if women were actually 52% of gamers, it would imply they are more than fine with the status quo and the current industry.
Because if we really went from an industry with very little female players (SNES era) to an industry where most players (and apparently console owners) are women (Current era), then it means the industry is on the right track to pander to women? So they are fine with the majority of playable character being males like this E3 and the current releases?
I understand that, but by glossing over games like ME:A (again: default female protag, male optional), you are painting a bleaker total picture than the reality of the situation.
I'm not favoring white men, I could careless who I play as in a videogame. I think there's a lot bigger problems in my life to concern myself with, I was just giving my opinion on the matter. Still, you're misconstruing my words to try and suit your argument but yes every character is created from scratch, this I understand but there have been instances where characters undergo somewhat radical changes because of outcries from the fans and game community at large and my point is I don't want to see that happen in terms of there being an influx of minorities/females as game leads because of backlash from fervent fans or fans pushing that or executives pushing that to try and generate more sales and publicity for a title.okay, you realize that every single game character ever created (outside of explicit adaptations from other mediums) is created from scratch for that game, right?
There is no such thing as a "natural" game character, or a game character that isn't "shoehorned" into a game to some degree.
You don't get white male characters for free, and female/minority characters don't cost extra. You have to create them all from the ground up, design them all visually, model and texture them all, etc.
This idea that white male video game characters are "natural" is nothing but a cultural bias favoring white men.
If it leads to lost revenues then, can you blame the publishers?
If it leads to lost revenues then, can you blame the publishers?
Sorry I'm not an expert, I just remember reading this post from a guy who is actually an expert on these thingsWouldn't that contradict the fact that the biggest age group is the least likely to be the owner/operator of a household?
They gloss over it for the same reason they gloss over a lot of things that are off-topic
The article is about the issue of how many games only star men vs. how many games only star women. I would just as soon expect them to bring up MEA as I would expect them to bring up dental floss. The subject does not relate to MEA, so when you make it seem unfair, you're essentially asking that they misrepresent the reality of the situation.