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I disagree that Sony should have a saying on how many trophies a game needs. The developers should put how many they want to, trophy hunters can go buy Hannah Montana or something else to platinum.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

It's 2016 and you're still dictated by trophies?

HA

 

[xrnzaaas]

I know warframe hit the max number for trophies. Sony won't let them implement any more.

Well that's just silly. Driveclub has 128 trophies, including 26 gold ones (!!). And that's not counting Driveclub Bikes (second platinum, 31 new trophies in total) which isn't exactly a brand new game, more like a big expansion with a possibility of being played standalone.

Also I think the discussion if people should care about trophies or not should be moved to a different thread since obviously the topic affects only those who care or at least acknowledge their presence.

 

[Acerac]

That seems absolutely fine to me. Would it be better if they added a bunch of achievements for powering on the game for the first time and learning to save your game?

 

[Duxxy3]

I wouldn't put that on Sony. It's all on the game developer to decide what and how many trophies are in their games.

 

[Stalk]

Hannah Montana has 43 if that makes you feel betterhttp://www.playstationtrophies.org/game/hannah-montana-the-movie/trophies/

But really, I guess it is what you take away from the title. Isn't firewatch an experience game?

 

[Fushichou187]

For something like Firewatch, this list seems appropriate. It means that all trophies are story related and if you make it through the story you'll have 100%'d the game. There are no collectible related trophies to distract you from the type of experience Campo Santo is going for. If they had tried some trophies to seeking out particular moments in the game, the descriptions would've gotten out (hidden or not) and perhaps spoil the moment for some people.

 

[Off-Kilter]

Hey folks--thanks for generally giving us the benefit of the doubt on this!

Generally speaking, it's probably safe to assume that no matter how a given decision on a game looks at first glance, it was still agonized over by the developer for ages. That was definitely true in this case. We brainstormed a TON of different approaches for doing trophies, including how many to have, what to award them for, what to name them, and everything else. We're really glad that Sony takes a light touch with this stuff. Trust me that we made the decision we did based on evaluating the game as a whole and deciding the most appropriate way to fit trophies into it. That's not to say that you have to ultimately end up agreeing we made the right choice (although we obviously hope you do), just that the decision was not borne out of laziness or a lack of consideration of the issue.

Hi Chris, thanks for stopping by and weighing in. Can't wait for the game and to listen to the score you cooked up.

 

[Kelegacy]

I wish games would go back to zero trophies, back when things were a bit more "pure", before achievement hunting. If they stopped existing, maybe people could concentrate a bit more on better things.

I would be more apt to buy games that advertise zero achievements as a marketing item. I think that would be quite amusing.

 

[Cleve]

This is also silly if they're creating new content. They don't seem to have a problem with DriveClub.

This is what people are saying -- it's the inconsistency!

Alas, I guess any thread about Trophies will go the same way, so it doesn't look like we can have the discussion.

There's a discussion here. The OP is that sony should force trophy design on to developers, most people here I'd say disagree. Sure there's a few people just being flip, but I think people are generally expressing themselves on the subject.

 

[Fushichou187]

I would be more apt to buy games that advertise zero achievements as a marketing item. I think that would be quite amusing.

I got an achievement for ordering Thai food this past weekend via an app on my phone. We are never going back to an achievement-less society, my friend. Video games or otherwise. Personally, I like trophies but I have friends that loathe them so they just turn off notifications for them and it's as if they didn't exist to them.

 

[Maintenance]

The dev is on GAF? Damn, one more reason to get it (as if I needed one).

 

[Footos22]

I wish it was just 1 trophy for beating the game for all games.

I'd be happy with that. Super happy actually. Or 1 for normal and one for higher difficulties

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

who gives a shit about trophies in the year 2016

 

[sora87]

At least they don't seem silly like everybody's gone to the raptures'

who gives a shit about trophies in the year 2016

Like, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people

 

[Camwi]

Every game should have a platinum trophy. This is why I feel Xbox Achievements work better. As many achievements as you want they'll just all equal 1000 at the end.

I agree. They should stop treating PSN games differently than retail games.

who gives a shit about trophies in the year 2016

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=193933163

 

[Eusis]

I wish more devs did games with 0 trophies/achievements.

Or more exactly were allowed to. Steam is great there, but I don't think Sony or Microsoft are as warm there with a few odd exceptions.

EDIT: Though I'm mostly bothered by requiring this for older games. That sounds like it can be a pain in the ass whereas you can just phone that in on a modern game so long as Sony/Microsoft don't decide to be too demanding.

 

[Acerac]

Like, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people

The fact that people buy games solely for the trophies/achievements is awesome and a bit scary to me.

 

[EdgeXL]

 

[AmuroChan]

my words came out wrong. I just would like for Sony to copy Microsofts system where every achievment is worth a specific amount of points, so that all games end up having the same "end score" for trophies.

Each trophy does have a point value. And games on XBox don't all have the same total points. Limbo had 200 achievement points. A full retail game has 1000 achievement points. PSN is similar. Small games have around 300 points. Bigger games have around 1200 points.

Bronze - 15
Silver - 30
Gold - 90
Platinum - 180

 

[impact]

I don't think developers should be forced to add achievements/trophies if they don't want to.

Of course they should, but why would they? It takes all of 5-10 minutes to think up of them and people will buy (or not buy) your game because of it.

 

[Camwi]

Each trophy does have a point value. And games on XBox don't all have the same total points. Limbo had 200 achievement points. A full retail game has 1000 achievement points. PSN is similar. Small games have around 300 points. Bigger games have around 1200 points.

Bronze - 15
Silver - 30
Gold - 90
Platinum - 180

I think they changed that. XBLA games on Xbone now all have 1000 points (I could be wrong, haven't bought anything on my Xbone in a while).

 

[Greddleok]

It's a well known fact that the more trophies, the more time the devs put into making the game.
5 trophies means they must have spent like 2 weeks. Indies amirite?

 

[prag16]

Of course they should, but why would they? It takes all of 5-10 minutes to think up of them and people will buy (or not buy) your game because of it.

Yeah... not a lot of people would be MORE likely to buy a game just because it doesn't have trophies.

But there DOES seem to be a shockingly large segment of gamers that will be much LESS likely to buy a game because if it does NOT have trophies/achievements.

So the choice is kind of obviously for devs. I give Jonathan Blow props for keeping it to 2 as intended (except on PS4 where apparently Sony forced him to have more).

 

[Greddleok]

Of course they should, but why would they? It takes all of 5-10 minutes to think up of them and people will buy (or not buy) your game because of it.

Do you really think it takes 5 minutes to think of trophies and implement them?

Also why does it have to be about time? They could easily have just made a conscious decision that trophies are dumb, and they don't want to include them, so put the minimum necessary in to pass cert.

 

[Acerac]

So the choice is kind of obviously for devs. I give Jonathan Blow props for keeping it to 2 as intended (except on PS4 where apparently Sony forced him to have more).

Ha, that's awesome, I was going to bring up The Witness as a positive example. Didn't realize that change was made for ps4.

 

[Plum]

Look at Everybody's Gone to the Rapture's trophies for a clear example of a developer forcing trophies into a game that doesn't need them. From what I've seen of Firewatch it really doesn't need them.

 

[Tansut]

Trophies and Achievements are the worst thing to come out of last gen.

Seriously. So much concern for something that's ultimately pretty meaningless.

 

[DietRob]

Firewatch does not strike me as the type of game that needs or even should have trophies. From what I've seen the vibe Campo Santo is going for is for the player to have an emotional connection with the characters and story. Having a trophy pop for opening 10 ranger boxes would pull people out of the vibe the game goes for.

The dev is on GAF? Damn, one more reason to get it (as if I needed one).

Yes.

 

[get2sammyb]

There's a discussion here. The OP is that sony should force trophy design on to developers, most people here I'd say disagree. Sure there's a few people just being flip, but I think people are generally expressing themselves on the subject.

My issue is not with the number of Trophies, it's the inconsistency between which games have a Platinum and which don't. Personally, I'd prefer it mandated that every game have a Platinum. Without the mandate, we're going to keep getting situations like this, where there's no rhyme or reason to the games that do/don't.

 

[lasrmountedmoai]

Trophy or not should absolutely be the choice of the dev. Trophy notifications and the hunt for trophies can define how a person experiences their game for better and worse. Now, you can say that once something is in a person's hands it's no longer for the creator to decide how it's experienced, but they should be able to create their work by whatever parameters they decide. If that frustrates a segment of gamers, that has to be taken into account too.

 

[DietRob]

Is anyone doing an |OT| for FireWatch? I keep forgetting the new rules for OT's is it now 5 days from release that an |OT| is posted?

 

[cyress8]

Only achievement I actually care about are the ones that pop up thanking you for buying their game. The rest can fuck off.

 

[Wolfe]

It's a shame game developers are being branded as lazy because of their design decisions for Trophy or Achievement implementation.

No kidding right? It's a bit sad that something totally irrelevant to the game itself is being used to judge the people that make the game.

I agree. I think they make games too same-y and whenever they pop up it takes me out of a game.

On my 360 and now PS4 one of the first things I did was turn off those pop up notifications since as you said, it's really distracting while I'm playing a game (especially if it's an RPG or story driven game).

I'm not saying 30 or 40, I'm just saying they should enforce a rule of "at least 13 trophies" for example, for every game, download only or not.

Forcing the devs to participate in a system that is not actually relevant to the game itself (yet obviously adds value for some people) doesn't sound like a great idea and I only imagine would make more trophies that appear "lazy". For example a trophy for beating a level that you would have beat anyway as you progressed through the game.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

It's kinda shitty that no matter the topic achievement/trophy threads are allowed to spiral into the same fight. Like, you guys have had plenty of opportunity to voice your opposition to something that clearly doesn't affect you or the games you play over the past ten years.

Well, it's an easy opportunity to come off as a holier-than-thou, I'm-so-over-this elitist and a lot of people absolutely love doing that. A lot of these guys lump trophy/achievement hunters in the same vein as COD-Bros and yearly Madden buyers. They feel the industry would be better off if it was free from their unenlightened influence.

 

[Joni]

The game has just over 300 points so it is a standard small game.

 

[Off-Kilter]

Is anyone doing an |OT| for FireWatch? I keep forgetting the new rules for OT's is it now 5 days from release that an |OT| is posted?

Day of release I believe

 

[lasrmountedmoai]

Well, it's an easy opportunity to come off as a holier-than-thou, I'm-so-over-this elitist and a lot of people absolutely love doing that. A lot of these guys lump trophy/achievement hunters in the same vein as COD-Bros and yearly Madden buyers. They feel the industry would be better off if it was free from their unenlightened influence.

OP is criticizing a game that people are invested in for more than how many trophies it has, so I think they have a pretty valid excuse for commenting in the thread.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Next E3 Sony show should just be an hour and a half of footage showing upcoming trophy lists, trailers of unseen trophies popping, and the various CEO's and lead devs talking about trophies.

IGN and KindaFunny can do trailer rewinds to pin point the nature of said trophies as they glint in and out of view.

 

[Delusibeta]

I think they changed that. XBLA games on Xbone now all have 1000 points (I could be wrong, haven't bought anything on my Xbone in a while).

Likewise, Sony's gotten rid of the requirements for your game to be eligible for a Platinum trophy. However, unlike Microsoft, they have kept the non-Plat option available for developers if they so choose.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Each trophy does have a point value. And games on XBox don't all have the same total points. Limbo had 200 achievement points. A full retail game has 1000 achievement points. PSN is similar. Small games have around 300 points. Bigger games have around 1200 points.

Bronze - 15
Silver - 30
Gold - 90
Platinum - 180

I never quite understood why it's all a multiple of 15 for everything. Like, how do people know the values aren't

Bronze - 1
Silver - 2
Gold - 6
Platinum - 12

Did someone just decide it was 15 points for bronze because reasons and people just adopted it from there?

 

[get2sammyb]

Likewise, Sony's gotten rid of the requirements for your game to be eligible for a Platinum trophy. However, unlike Microsoft, they have kept the non-Plat option available for developers if they so choose.

Which, if I'm understanding correctly, is the only thing people are suggesting change here. If you're not into Trophies then I fully get it and that's cool - this doesn't affect you at all. However, those of us that do like Trophies can't help but see the inconsistency between games that do/don't have a Platinum, and it makes zero sense.

It's not a big deal and Firewatch will still be an utterly fantastic game regardless, but the inconsistency is still odd and should be addressed at some point IMO.

 

[Delusibeta]

I never quite understood why it's all a multiple of 15 for everything. Like, how do people know the values aren't

Bronze - 1
Silver - 2
Gold - 6
Platinum - 12

?

Because the points system is tied to the profile level system, and the points threshold for each level is public knowledge.

Which, if I'm understanding correctly, is the only thing people are suggesting change here. If you're not into Trophies then I fully get it and that's cool - this doesn't affect you at all. However, those of us that do like Trophies can't help but see the inconsistency between games that do/don't have a Platinum, and it makes zero sense.

It's not a big deal and Firewatch will still be an utterly fantastic game regardless, but the inconsistency is still odd and should be addressed at some point IMO.

Admittedly, not mandating Platinums is probably more Sony not wanting to fiddle with backend systems that isn't broken than altruism towards developers, it's still ultimately up to the individual developer to decide whether or not they want a Plat. Bluntly, pretty much all of the complaints about Firewatch's trophies should be directed towards Campo Santo.

Of course, there's still the point restrictions (and the mandate for at least one of each type of Bronze, Silver and Gold trophies), so we could see a Super Meat Boy-esque situation of one Bronze, one Silver and ten-isa Golds for a theoretical Platinum list.

 

[Joni]

I never quite understood why it's all a multiple of 15 for everything. Like, how do people know the values aren't

Bronze - 1
Silver - 2
Gold - 6
Platinum - 12

Did someone just decide it was 15 points for bronze because reasons and people just adopted it from there?

Because Sony told people. And because it accidentaly means that every PS game has more trophy points than achievement points

 

[0racle]

I dont see it as a problem simply because minumums have never been set. The fact that it bothers the OP to the point of making a thread about it clearly shows where the problem is.

With all due respect you may want to reflect on your priorities in terms of gaming and obsessions with certain aspects of it. Im not trying to be vissciois, but its clear to see things are a bit off in terms of what trophies and achievements are doing to you mentally. I know many people are in the same boat as you but that does not make it right.

 

[timmyp53]

Next E3 Sony show should just be an hour and a half of footage showing upcoming trophy lists, trailers of unseen trophies popping, and the various CEO's and lead devs talking about trophies.

IGN and KindaFunny can do trailer rewinds to pin point the nature of said trophies as they glint in and out of view.

This thread backfire is so goooood.

 

[Transistor]

it's up to the developer how many trophies they want in the game

Sony is right not to get in the way of that too much

really not a big deal

And we're done here. Throwing in arbitrary trophies to meet a quota is stupid

 

[RiverBed]

Yes go to notifications and uncheck the box

There is! You can turn it off in the "Notifications" area of the PS4. It's so serene without them.

OMG, YES! where were you all my post-fucking-trophy life?!

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

It's not a major problem, but the inconsistency is absolutely insane. I think the only way to solve it is to mandate that every game has a Platinum Trophy, much like I believe Microsoft ensures all games have 1000GS.

I did just write an OpEd on this which may have influenced the creation of the thread: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2016/02/opinion_firewatchs_paltry_five_trophies_prove_that_the_system_needs_fixing XD

Platform holders shouldn't dictate rules to creatives unless there's a very good reason. Trophies are not a very good reason. Platform holders should demand a game meet a standard of functionality and beyond that the devs should make the decisions about what is in the game.

If I end up liking a game like Firewatch, after my initial playthrough there is nothing left for me in the game, even though I liked the game. It's not like I would go right back to the game and play through the game again to see the exact same stuff again.. so unless the devs have hidden alot in the game, or there are some other stuff to do in the game, then one play through is all it will ever get from me. A broader trophy list or some hidden stuff would make me dive right back in to try to find all stuff that is in the game.
Granted all this can be done without trophies, but since we have that on PS4 and Xbox One today, why not use it to give the player some incentive to go back into the game?

The game is full of dialogue choices. That basically IS the game as far as we know. So you can play again to see different conversations or something. What more could trophies do for you?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

edit: double post