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[notaskwid]

And?

And nothing.
If people can't compromise on things like this, maybe they deserve this nuts that want to shut down abortion completely.

There is compromise in plenty of countries in Europe that as been in place in some case for years and it works, even if it could be better. Abortion under request for 3 months, abortion only under medical advice after.
It's not even after 6 months like I was suggesting the law should be. There are no legal obstacles like the other poster was suggesting, only that one shouldn't be able to take such a decision by herself.
It's not an easy decision.
Maybe I have a different prespective as an European, but I think that such important things should be regulated.

 

[legend166]

No but these women deserve to be punished for having sex.

Wait no I mean every life is sacred to God and because I believe in God everyone else has to believe in God too.

Also DAE life begins at conception, even though I'm a dude and will never be in danger of getting pregnant, and also I've never volunteered to foster children, adopted, or even interacted with children. Also I don't donate to the poor.

Genuinely - what do you say to women who are anti-abortion?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Huh? I mean I don't deny that it's ever happened, but that's just not a thing we should focus on at all.

Actual reasons women have late term abortions (and by late I don't necessarily mean 6 months, I mean 20 weeks or more):

1) Medical necessity for their own life
2) Birth defects
3) They didn't actually know they were pregnant until late
4) Jumping through hoops put into place by republicans

Abortion is a really fucking hard decision and almost no one is actually waiting 6 months before doing it. Most late abortions are from wanted pregnancies, actually, and it's circumstances like 1 and 2 that force them to go that route.

I know what you mean. I was being snide or sarcastic. You can't say there has never been a woman who had a change of mind and decide to abort a late-term fetus. And even if you could prove that then why should we not allow it? So what if a woman wanted to give birth up until the 7th or 8th month? She doesn't want it now. Why force her to carry to term? This isn't 'philosophical masturbation'. This is real scenarios that play out and can cause a woman to change her mind. There should not be an exception made in allowing women their rights.

And nothing.
If people can't compromise on things like this, maybe they deserve this nuts that want to shut down abortion completely.

People shouldn't compromise WITH THEIR RIGHTS.

Gross you would think women deserve to be treated as lesser people simply for standing up for themselves.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Tough Topic.

I guess I am in the middle, I see both sides. The mother should ALWAYS have a choice, but that choice needs to be made in a responsible amount of time. That includes enough time to receive counselling to make an informed and non-emotional decision.

Fact is I was adopted at a very early age (less than a month old), if the laws of today existed when I was born I likely would not be here today, so I could never be full-on Pro-Choice.

My daughter was taken early (1lb-3oz) due to my wife having a medical condition called Toxemia. My daughter is 16, does great in school and plays competitive Vball. There are states where at the time she was taken, it would have been legal to abort.
Thats Re-Fucking-Diculous.

The choice should always be available, but if the woman is not responsible enough to make a CHOICE to get checked if pregnancy is a possibility early on, they are not responsible enough to make this extremely important CHOICE either..

It is utterly fascinating how pretty much your entire opinion of what rights millions of women should have is completely centred around you.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

The not-yet-birthed human is absolutely living while physically located inside the womb.

Is my other post too long for you to read or something. Did this one have few enough words that you could reply to it?

 

[excelsiorlef]

And nothing.
If people can't compromise on things like this, maybe they deserve this nuts that want to shut down abortion completely.

There is compromise in plenty of countries in Europe that as been in place in some case for years and it works, even if it could be better. Abortion under request for 3 months, abortion only under medical advice after.
It's not even after 6 months like I was suggesting the law should be. There are no legal obstacles like the other poster was suggesting, only that one shouldn't be able to take such a decision by herself.
It's not an easy decision.
Maybe I have a different prespective as an European, but I think that such important things should be regulated.

Lack of limit works here in Canada.

US already has plenty of compromises

 

[FyreWulff]

My daughter was taken early (1lb-3oz) due to my wife having a medical condition called Toxemia. My daughter is 16, does great in school and plays competitive Vball. There are states where at the time she was taken, it would have been legal to abort.
Thats Re-Fucking-Diculous.

How many weeks was she actually induced at?

 

[Eye for an Eye]

My daughter was taken early (1lb-3oz) due to my wife having a medical condition called Toxemia. My daughter is 16, does great in school and plays competitive Vball. There are states where at the time she was taken, it would have been legal to abort.
Thats Re-Fucking-Diculous.

The choice should always be available, but if the woman is not responsible enough to make a CHOICE to get checked if pregnancy is a possibility early on, they are not responsible enough to make this extremely important CHOICE either..

My daughter was 1lb 2.7oz when I made the choice to end the pregnancy. I wasn't in your shoes to make the decision you did. Why do you feel you should have an opinion on my decision if you weren't in my shoes?

 

[notaskwid]

People shouldn't compromise WITH THEIR RIGHTS.

Gross you would think women deserve to be treated as lesser people simply for standing up for themselves.

I never said such thing.
We had those kinds of people marching on the street too and they were convinced once there was an acceptable compromise. Well, except for Italy and Malta afaik.
The priority should be giving to all people the possibility to have a safe abortion if so necessary, as humane as possible. If some compromise is necessary, then so be it, but the constant state of fight like we see in the US can not be healthy for anyone.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I never said such thing.
We had those kinds of people marching on the street too and they were convinced once there was an acceptable compromise. Well, except for Italy and Malta afaik.
The priority should be giving to all people the possibility to have a safe abortion if so necessary, as humane as possible. If some compromise is necessary, then so be it, but the constant state of fight like we see in the US can not be healthy for anyone.

One side will not settle for anything but full denial of abortion rights.

 

[Helznicht]

But... they're somehow responsible enough to be....a parent??????

:-/ not even worth a response.

It is utterly fascinating how pretty much your entire opinion of what rights millions of women should have is completely centred around you.

Yep, and the millions other lives like mine. And every other life like my daughters.

How many weeks was she actually induced at?

She was a little over 3 months early, so around week 24/25 was the estimate.

My daughter was 1lb 2.7oz when I made the choice to end the pregnancy. I wasn't in your shoes to make the decision you did. Why do you feel you should have an opinion on my decision if you weren't in my shoes?

Sorry to hear that I am sure that was a difficult time for you. We did not have a decision to make. Toxemia puts the mothers life at risk, and stays at risk until birth. Doctor made the decision when he felt my wifes life was in to much danger. Wife was in the hospital 2 weeks so they could manage her condition to allow as much gestation time as possible. As to your last question, I already answered that. I would be interested why you waited until the time you did to make the choice, but would understand if you preferred not to discuss.

 

[PKrockin]

Did we ever get numbers on which, between Women's March and March for Life, was bigger? As in, the DC protests. Obviously the Women's March was all over the country as well as worldwide.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Sorry to hear that I am sure that was a difficult time for you. We did not have a decision to make. Toxemia puts the mothers life at risk, and stays at risk until birth. Doctor made the decision when he felt my wifes life was in to much danger. Wife was in the hospital 2 weeks so they could manage her condition to allow as much gestation time as possible. As to your last question, I already answered that. I would be interested why you waited until the time you did to make the choice, but would understand if you preferred not to discuss.

You always have a decision. Making the choice to continue, making the choice to induce eary, or making the choice to end is a decision your wife made based on the information she had at the time. Pro choice is just that. The choice to make a very personal decision between a woman and her doctors.

I had an amnio done at 15 weeks and did not receive the genetics results back until 20 weeks. I terminated at 21w5d.

 

[daffy]

One side will not settle for anything but full denial of abortion rights.

They're using their foreign identity as an excuse for ignorance. "constant state of fight" lol boy bye

 

[iPaul93]

Pence is a piece of shit.People like him who are anti abortion are disgusting.

 

[Frozenprince]

Of course he does, he's got support from his boss:

Hmmmm. Yet not one tweet on the women's March or protests

Hmmmmmmmm

 

[How About No]

Hmmmm. Yet not one tweet on the women's March or protests

Hmmmmmmmm

Why would he

It's all about the narrative

Edit nvm VV

So Trump also insinuated that the Women's March protesters didn't vote eh?

 

[NBtoaster]

Hmmmm. Yet not one tweet on the women's March or protests

Hmmmmmmmm

There were a couple

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823150055418920960

Watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election! Why didn't these people vote? Celebs hurt cause badly.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823174199036542980

Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views.

 

[MetalGearZed]

There were a couple

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823150055418920960

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823174199036542980

the second one is surprisingly non-incendiary.

 

[crackhead_bob]

I mean, it's not a glamourous subject. And some men will always find a way to make it about themselves. their thoughts. their feelings. Always.

I think that was the whole point behind Lena Dunham and Sarah Silverman's humor. No one takes abortion lightly. They were trying to raise a dialogue on the issue, because frankly, when there's silence on the issue from our side, it's the anti-choicers who end up framing the whole experience -- that abortion is bad, that it harms and denigrates women, etc., because afterall, it's only the godless, promiscuous, and selfish women of the world who are getting abortions in the first place. I mean, that's the narrative that has been bandied out over the past four decades, and it will continue to do so until women step forward and own it fearlessly and without apologies.

I think if more women stepped forward on their experiences, it would force alot of people in their lives to take stock on the issue. It's basically what gay people had to do in order to win their rights. It's true that they had to fight tooth and nail to get the right to marry, but they needed the help from other groups to make that happen. Women need to adopt a similar approach, because frankly, this reconciliatory approach of olive branching and conceding dialogue hasn't done shit for them. Anti-choicers still harbor all the open contempt for them that they have regardless. They believe abortion is murder, and therefore have done everything in their power to openly demean, intimidate, and marginalize any woman who dares to assert themselves on this issue. And I feel that as long as women remain silent, nothing really is going to change. Anti-choice lawmakers will continue to pass regulation after regulation with the confidence that they won't be challenged on any significant level because no one won't even stand up to defend it -- not even the women themselves who should have the final say. And on the flip side, you have some of the vulnerable democrats folding over because. afterall, why stick their neck out for our side when the people who stand to benefit from their support are too cowed to speak for themselves?

There was a march in Washington D.C. and around the world that showed that there were women who support reproductive freedom. But sadly, frustratingly, I don't recall that any of the speakers mentioned the idea of "coming out" as a valid political tactic. I wish that one of the speakers had asked that anyone in the crowd who had had an abortion raise their hand, and when those that did raise their hands, they should have followed it with a salutation and support for the ladies who were brave enough to speak their truth, as well as the women at the march among them who may not have felt empowered to speak their truth. It's a tactic that would help men feel empowered to engage in too, because like gay rights, I think gains were made because not only were they more openly honest about their truth, but they demonstrated that they were willing to fight for it as well. If women are more assertive on an idea, on a goal, it's alot easier for men to fall in line in support of it.

BTW, how did the anti-choicer's annual Fetuspalooza go in terms of the numbers? Wasn't there supposed to be six hundred thousand?

 

[AYF 001]

the second one is surprisingly non-incendiary.

So long as you meet his definition of "people".

 

[shaneskim]

Religious extremists forcing their views on the population...

 

[Beefy]

Why not allow women (just the women!) to kill their babies and toddlers, too?

Why is it that when a person slits their wrists we'll do whatever possible to preserve their life yet we allow a woman to murder the defenseless child in their body?

"It's their body" argument falls flat on its face with any sort of logical reasoning.

Says the poster that tries to link a child to a fetus, when one can live outside the womb and the other can't. How the hell is that logical?

 

[WhateverItTakes]

The frustrating thing about this debate is that abortions could be free and legal for all and everyone could be happy living a way they choose. But because politician pro-lifers see themselves as on a crusade for the unborn we just see them shutting down other people rather than minding their own damn business. Speaks volumes about their tolerance.

 

[pashmilla]

This is one of the rare parts of women's rights where I'm willing to say no uterus? No opinion. All these anti-choice dudes in this thread making it all about their feefees. Well, when you're the ones being forced to carry the child of your rapist, or your brother, or one that has no chance of survival, then you can talk about it. Until that happens just stop.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Some of the shit I've heard from the people of this march is just.....................holy fuck, these dudes want absolute control of a women's reproduction system.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

I think that was the whole point behind Lena Dunham and Sarah Silverman's humor. No one takes abortion lightly. They were trying to raise a dialogue on the issue, because frankly, when there's silence on the issue from our side, it's the anti-choicers who end up framing the whole experience -- that abortion is bad, that it harms and denigrates women, etc., because afterall, it's only the godless, promiscuous, and selfish women of the world who are getting abortions in the first place. I mean, that's the narrative that has been bandied out over the past four decades, and it will continue to do so until women step forward and own it fearlessly and without apologies.

I think if more women stepped forward on their experiences, it would force alot of people in their lives to take stock on the issue. It's basically what gay people had to do in order to win their rights. It's true that they had to fight tooth and nail to get the right to marry, but they needed the help from other groups to make that happen. Women need to adopt a similar approach, because frankly, this reconciliatory approach of olive branching and conceding dialogue hasn't done shit for them. Anti-choicers still harbor all the open contempt for them that they have regardless. They believe abortion is murder, and therefore have done everything in their power to openly demean, intimidate, and marginalize any woman who dares to assert themselves on this issue. And I feel that as long as women remain silent, nothing really is going to change. Anti-choice lawmakers will continue to pass regulation after regulation with the confidence that they won't be challenged on any significant level because no one won't even stand up to defend it -- not even the women themselves who should have the final say. And on the flip side, you have some of the vulnerable democrats folding over because. afterall, why stick their neck out for our side when the people who stand to benefit from their support are too cowed to speak for themselves?

There was a march in Washington D.C. and around the world that showed that there were women who support reproductive freedom. But sadly, frustratingly, I don't recall that any of the speakers mentioned the idea of "coming out" as a valid political tactic. I wish that one of the speakers had asked that anyone in the crowd who had had an abortion raise their hand, and when those that did raise their hands, they should have followed it with a salutation and support for the ladies who were brave enough to speak their truth, as well as the women at the march among them who may not have felt empowered to speak their truth. It's a tactic that would help men feel empowered to engage in too, because like gay rights, I think gains were made because not only were they more openly honest about their truth, but they demonstrated that they were willing to fight for it as well. If women are more assertive on an idea, on a goal, it's alot easier for men to fall in line in support of it.

BTW, how did the anti-choicer's annual Fetuspalooza go in terms of the numbers? Wasn't there supposed to be six hundred thousand?

All those men and women that were standing there were there because they felt attacked by Trump in one way or another. This march wasn't about just abortion rights; it was about women's health from childhood through adulthood. It was for the ability to get contraceptives, screenings for STI's, screenings for cancers, healthcare through a pregnancy, healthcare for PCOS, healthcare for menapause, and any other conceivable thing you can think of that a woman could face in her lifetime. And not just that, it's for men too to have those same services. Guys might not have a uterus that flows boood out once a month or makes a pregnancy possible, but guys can still face cancer, still get STI's, still want contraceptives.

Abortions are a private medical decision between a woman and a doctor. It's not between her and the world to know. Abortions should be provided the same HIPPA law protections that any other medical procedure receives. If a woman chooses to talk about, then that's a personal decision. She shouldn't be forced to wear a letter A on her bosom for making a medical decision.

 

[ShironRedshift]

This is one of the rare parts of women's rights where I'm willing to say no uterus? No opinion. All these anti-choice dudes in this thread making it all about their feefees. Well, when you're the ones being forced to carry the child of your rapist, or your brother, or one that has no chance of survival, then you can talk about it. Until that happens just stop.

Indeed. Fully agreed.

Like, I wonder how men would feel about this discussion if women had similar control over the bodies of men, no fuckin' questions asked, as a trade-off to women being denied abortions. Like, if women aren't allowed to get abortions, then as a trade-off women would be able to demand that any man their involved with get a vasectomy, no questions asked, no matter how much they might personally be against that decision. If men get to control women's bodies, then women should get to control something about men's bodies to balance the scales. See how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot and have autonomy of their own bodies completely removed from them.

Guessing not many would go for that though, even though men would still be getting the much, much better deal in that situation because having that kind of control of your body stripped from you ain't very fun and no one should be doing that to anyone.

 

[crackhead_bob]

All those men and women that were standing there were there because they felt attacked by Trump in one way or another. This march wasn't about just abortion rights; it was about women's health from childhood through adulthood. It was for the ability to get contraceptives, screenings for STI's, screenings for cancers, healthcare through a pregnancy, healthcare for PCOS, healthcare for menapause, and any other conceivable thing you can think of that a woman could face in her lifetime. And not just that, it's for men too to have those same services. Guys might not have a uterus that flows boood out once a month or makes a pregnancy possible, but guys can still face cancer, still get STI's, still want contraceptives.

Abortions are a private medical decision between a woman and a doctor. It's not between her and the world to know. Abortions should be provided the same HIPPA law protections that any other medical procedure receives. If a woman chooses to talk about, then that's a personal decision. She shouldn't be forced to wear a letter A on her bosom for making a medical decision.

I agree with much of your sentiment, but these are different times, unfortunately. Shame has become one of the anti-choice movement's more potent weapon. I'm not suggesting that women be forced out kicking and screaming, but that they step forward on their own volition and speak their truth. If more and more women did that on a net scale, you'd take away one of their most strongest assets.

I'm convinced that if gay people remained in the closet to this day there would be no marriage equality. Hell, homosexuality itself might have even remained outlawed if it remained a social phenomenon that remained unseen by most. Because why would any straight person feel compelled to defend them when their morality was already being defined by the christian right? This is basically where prochoice women are at today. If they were more visible, it would be harder for the christian right to marginalize them. Politicians might think twice before using abortion as a crass carrot at the end of a stick to their bum fuck voters.

 

[jacob armitage]

I'm kind of starting to side with Madonna here.

Spoiler

Joking... mostly

 

[Slaythe]

This is one of the rare parts of women's rights where I'm willing to say no uterus? No opinion.

... No.

No that's not how it works.

There are a lot of conservative shitbags that happen to be women, and they are "pro life". They have a uterus, that doesn't make their opinions better than the men are that pro choice just because they're women.

This isn't a men vs women issue, this is a human decency issue.

Like honestly, what would you say the percentage of those pro life people are also homophobic, racist, and intolerant ?

 

[Koomaster]

I know sentiments like this have been said before, but honestly if they care so much about the unborn, they should care equally as much when it's finally out of the womb. I want an actual womb to grave quality of life plan from anti-abortionists. All a person's needs should be provided if we're going to work so hard to make sure they are born even against the will of someone to make it happen.

 

[pashmilla]

... No.

No that's not how it works.

There are a lot of conservative shitbags that happen to be women, and they are "pro life". They have a uterus, that doesn't make their opinions better than the men are that pro choice just because they're women.

This isn't a men vs women issue, this is a human decency issue.

Like honestly, what would you say the percentage of those pro life people are also homophobic, racist, and intolerant ?

Okay, but what I'm saying is that cis men have no place in this discussion to begin with, because they're not the ones affected by this. Especially all the shitty concern trolls in this thread going "bububu the children!!!" Anti-choice women are a whole different ballpark because yes they have terrible opinions but at least they have a uterus and thus some relevance to the discussion. I don't give a shit what men think women should be allowed to do with their bodies so they should just fuck off.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I'm totally pro choice, but so you think that 6, 7, 8 months old abortions should be allowed by law? Because I don't think so.
Except on very specific cases that put at risk the life of the mother and the baby.

- "I'm against late term abortions"

- someone else reminds them that elective late term abortions are already illegal and pro-choicers agreed to those terms back in 1973 as part of Roe v Wade.

- . . . delay. . . "I'm against late term abortions"

- JimCarrey who are you talking to.gif

Did we ever get numbers on which, between Women's March and March for Life, was bigger? As in, the DC protests. Obviously the Women's March was all over the country as well as worldwide.

If we don't get any PR numbers on it they're probably embarrassed by the numbers and will try and bury it.

 

[jellies_two]

the second one is surprisingly non-incendiary.

The second one was damage control forced on him by his nannies. You can clearly see that it did not spring from the mind of trump.

 

[Helznicht]

So basically you have no response?

Your argument is absurd. A person isn't responsible enough to have the choice of having an abortion, but that same irresponsible person should be a parent? I don't understand how anyone could think this. If you truly believe a person is SO irresponsible as to remove their own choices over their own bodies from them, I'm not sure how you are okay with then raising another human, unless you think that their children should be forcibly birthed, removed, and raised away.

Mine is absurd? My birth mother was not a parent. Neither are lots women giving birth.

 

[jellies_two]

Regarding crowd sizes there is time lapse of the march which lasted for about a minute, and in one second I think 100-2000 plus people passed an invisible line and the total time lapse was a minute 30 so my guess that total size was maybe 150k to 250k?

I am sure a crowd scientist would take one look at the time lapse and make a more accurate estimate.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/...t-2017-march-for-life?utm_content=buffereab01

 

[CadetMahoney]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/...t-2017-march-for-life?utm_content=buffereab01

Lifenews is about as credible as daily mail.

It's the tweet and the video, not the crap site.. just click through no need to read the optimistic article.

No thanks, not giving them hits. I'll wait for a news source with something to lose for not vetting sources to comment on numbers, whatever they may be.

 

[DasPenguin]

Religious extremists forcing their views on the population...

Nice one.

 

[jellies_two]

Lifenews is about as credible as daily mail.

It's the tweet and the video, not the crap site.. just click through no need to read the optimistic article.

 

[Helznicht]

You always have a decision. Making the choice to continue, making the choice to induce eary, or making the choice to end is a decision your wife made based on the information she had at the time. Pro choice is just that. The choice to make a very personal decision between a woman and her doctors.

I guess I do not see that there is a decision between baby may die OR both mother and baby definitely die.

I had an amnio done at 15 weeks and did not receive the genetics results back until 20 weeks. I terminated at 21w5d.

I understand.

 

[FiggyCal]

No but these women deserve to be punished for having sex.

Wait no I mean every life is sacred to God and because I believe in God everyone else has to believe in God too.

Could you imagine this for other examples though? "I think murder is wrong, but I don't want my opinions imposed on other people; I don't think it should be illegal." That's basically the equivalent of what religious people and other pro-life people are saying about abortion and that's the issue that has to be resolved. If they really think abortion is equivalent to murder, it would be wrong of them to not demonstrate, want this idea to be shared, the act illegal, etc.

Also DAE life begins at conception, even though I'm a dude and will never be in danger of getting pregnant, and also I've never volunteered to foster children, adopted, or even interacted with children. Also I don't donate to the poor.

We also do not know if this is true. Particularly for the more religious people who probably do give more money to charity and do volunteer work.

 

[The Technomancer]

Could you imagine this for other examples though? "I think murder is wrong, but I don't want my opinions imposed on other people; I don't think it should be illegal." That's basically the equivalent of what religious people and other pro-life people are saying about abortion and that's the issue that has to be resolved. If they really think abortion is equivalent to murder, it would be wrong of them to not demonstrate, want this idea to be shared, the act illegal, etc.

I mean, its comical but there was a thing being shared the other day that was saying like "if you saw someone holding a baby over a bed of knives in one hand and an embryo in a petri dish over a fire in the other and they forced you to choose, would you be paralyzed because both are murder?"

 

[Platy]

Indeed. Fully agreed.

Like, I wonder how men would feel about this discussion if women had similar control over the bodies of men, no fuckin' questions asked, as a trade-off to women being denied abortions. Like, if women aren't allowed to get abortions, then as a trade-off women would be able to demand that any man their involved with get a vasectomy, no questions asked, no matter how much they might personally be against that decision. If men get to control women's bodies, then women should get to control something about men's bodies to balance the scales. See how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot and have autonomy of their own bodies completely removed from them.

Guessing not many would go for that though, even though men would still be getting the much, much better deal in that situation because having that kind of control of your body stripped from you ain't very fun and no one should be doing that to anyone.

A more appropriate would be Men can't masturbate, since it includes the "you will be fucked if you pleasure yourself" AND the "the life begins at the scrotum" line of idea and with a bonus you control the sexual urges of men.

 

[FiggyCal]

A more appropriate would be Men can't masturbate, since it includes the "you will be fucked if you pleasure yourself" AND the "the life begins at the scrotum" line of idea and with a bonus you control the sexual urges of men.

There are plenty of people who do actively believe men shouldn't masturbate -- would not be surprised if it was the same audience tbh. But for reasons that should be clear, masturbation isn't the male equivalent of getting an abortion.

 

[hawkshockey11]

Because they consider a fetus to be a living being instead of a mass of cells on its way to becoming one.

In certain states like my own, New York, you can get hit with a double homicide for killing a mother carrying a child regardless of stage.

In my eyes, life begins when the woman carrying the child wants it too. I'm not against the double homicide situation for that reason.

 

[CadetMahoney]

"Life begins" and "unique human DNA" are red herrings for those that lack critical thinking.

Such an early stage shouldn't have the same ontic and moral value as a newborn just because religion told you so. We already know pro-lifers don't believe this themselves since they never protest outside IVF clinics, which are even available in pro-life countries like Ireland and Poland.

Also fetal homicide laws have nothing to do with abortion if pro-lifers understood why it's ok for the woman to abort and why it's not ok for someone to kill her fetus without her consent. Heck it's illegal to do so with her consent if the person isn't approved by the government (but that's another topic).

The same reason why it's not murder when someone uses self-defence or a cop shoots someone (legit) in the line of duty, but pro-lifers have trouble understanding this.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

I guess I do not see that there is a decision between baby may die OR both mother and baby definitely die.

Your wife had a choice from the beginning. She met with doctors, she understood the risks of continuing or ending the pregnancy, and made a decision based on the information at hand. She could have avoided the two week hospital stay, or she could've put her life further at risk and carried longer.

In babies born preterm, the chance of survival at less than 23 weeks is close to zero, while at 23 weeks it is 15%, at 24 weeks 55% and at 25 weeks about 80%.

Her decision to deliver at 25 weeks was based on the medical information provided to her and guidance of her doctors.

On the flip side to your wife's situation, there have been mothers to choose termination for preeclampsia because they cannot get past 25 weeks without seriously jeopardizing their own health. For every one story you read on the internet about how couragous a mother was to die to save a pregnancy, there are many more stories of mother's choosing termination. Neither choice should be celebrated. And neither choice is any "easier" to make.

Choosing termination isn't just for life or death situations. Women choose for a multitude of reasons, but whatever her reasons are, it's her decision to make.

I had a very healthy pregnancy. She was measuring 3 days ahead at 15weeks. I had no complications besides having hyperemesis gravidarum through the whole pregnancy, but nothing life threatening. I made the decision to terminate based on her inheriting a genetic condition from me. Just because I chose termination for it doesn't mean there isn't another woman out there who would continue with the same diagnosis.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Grats women of the US, you're incapable of making your choices with your body. Gotta let old white men tell you exactly what to do.

These fucking disgusting republicans.

You believe that these women don't also believe abortion is wrong?

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Because they consider a fetus to be a living being instead of a mass of cells on its way to becoming one.

In certain states like my own, New York, you can get hit with a double homicide for killing a mother carrying a child regardless of stage.

Sorry, you're wrong. No state has given personhood to a fetus. There are a select few states that have larger penalties for injurying or killing a pregnant woman, but New York is not one of them.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

Currently, at least 38 states have fetal homicide laws. The states include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia;and>Wisconsin>.

Now, the House is trying push a bill through to grant personhood to a fetus, but I hope it dies in Congress.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/586

https://www.bustle.com/p/what-is-the-personhood-bill-hr-586-is-affront-to-women-everywhere-33079/