OminoMichelin
Member
this picture really makes him look bad. Being swayed so easily by others is something you'd expect from a kid.
Gee he flipflops and tends to say things to please everyone. It's shocking sometimes
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Playtonic removes JonTron from Yooka-Laylee.
- Thread starter BY2K
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WorldofMiku
Banned
Thing is, Boogie may have gotten away with it if he kept his mouth shut the whole time. But he didn't. Now he is paying the price.
Chairmanchuck
Member
People are really thinking that the decision of a company that doesnt want to associate themselves with a racist person who thinks that the "white genepool" is superior is bad???
Seriously?!
Seriously?!
It's like after Trump was elected freeze peach for many turned into the belief that you can say whatever you want and nothing will happen to you. Sorry racists, doesn't work that way in real life, you will become an outcast from society. Many nazis don't care about this however which is why there need to be enforceable laws on hate speech as well.
Shang
Member
Gee he flipflops and tends to say things to please everyone. It's shocking sometimes
Seems like at first he's just thinking of in a private setting, where he wouldn't punish someone for their beliefs. But if said beliefs became public and out of control, and started to reflect negatively on that person's employer, then it would be reasonable to take action.
Doesn't seem like a flip-flop so much as a slightly different scenario.
I liked boogie a lot, some of his videos in which he has discussed his abusive upbringing and health problems have almost reduced me to tears. I get no pleasure from writing him off as a person, his stance during Gamergate was deeply disappointing to me. He chose to align himself with the sort of people who spam his videos with fat insults.
OminoMichelin
Member
These people don't understand what free speech entails.
A good number of the same people are also professional trolls, I'd bet.
UncleSporky
Member
This comment I actually find pretty abhorrent. So few people online are ever willing to be thoughtful, ever willing to admit that they're wrong, or admit they didn't see it from that viewpoint before. I think reflective comments ought to be noted and praised.
I mean, if you reply to this post to the contrary, it'll be because you want me to be "swayed easily like a kid," right? Or if not me, anyone else who might read and agree with this post? Otherwise what is even the point in going back and forth, if only an immature child is going to cede the point?
There may be other good reasons to criticize Boogie, but the ability to recognize a good point contrary to his own is not one of them. We need more of that.
Johannsson
Member
Good
Gotta get that sweet racist money.
Messofanego, thanks for transcribing that. That's as damning as it gets. Okay, yeah, JonTron's a racist. I'm defending a racist. And this probably isn't a good idea, but damn it, I'm going to do it anyway.
Because where I don't agree with their opinions, I believe they have every right to their opinions. I believe they have every right to think for themselves and try to feel out. And the problem with the freedom of thought is, sometimes people are gonna think things you don't like. People are going to have opinions and ideas that you don't enjoy. And you have to treat that with a certain level of tolerance and understanding. Because if you approach it with tolerance and understanding, you might very well be able to convince that person otherwise. I do plan to have a conversation with Jon if you allow me to and maybe we'll talk about the stuff. Maybe I'll learn from him, and he'll learn from me, and we'll land somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't that be swell? Because the middle is a great place to be! And people say, you won't stand up for what you believe in, you won't stand up for what you care about, but you know what damnit I stand on this hill! And I'll die on this hill! THIS IS THE ONE I WILL STAND UP FOR! There's no such thing as wrong think. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion. I think it's ok to have whatever shitty opinion you have. And it's the best way to treat someone with a shitty opinion - one that might be morally and objectively wrong - is to try to talk to them, to treat them like a person, to treat them like you care about them, to treat them moderately and maybe with respect and talk to them and try to convince them. Because I'll tell you something. The studies show when you fight someone's beliefs, it only strengthens their beliefs and convictions. You can't change somebody's mind with hate. You can only change somebody's mind with love."
But this centrism creates opportunities where he comes off as a hypocrite. Examples:
There are a few thoughts I have on this.
If you're scared of losing your YouTube-money by speaking on it, speaking on it and saying you're approaching it gingerly because of that doesn't really change the fact that you're speaking on it. Perhaps it's better that he is saying something than nothing at all, but if you don't want to be too definite in a statement about it, then it's not really anything doing this in between kind of thing. Also, he says JonTron should be allowed to have any opinion he wants, then he says he moderates himself because he doesn't want to lose money over an opinion. Then he says JonTron shouldn't lose money over an opinion. If that's his idea, I think he should stand up for it. Not say "I think everyone should speak their mind. But I won't, since I think it might affect me the way I say it shouldn't affect them".
Further, this idea that you have to approach ignorance not with dismissal, as it were, when he says "you shouldn't condemn it, because then they won't speak to you" makes sense when it comes to how people around JonTron should deal with it. However, it's not media and our responsibility to go "you know what JonTron? You have a good point. We shouldn't allow immigrants to dilute our gene pool. But have you considered that diversity is good?". That's not how shit works. Why the hell is JonTron's intolerant opinion worth defending, while *I* need to learn how to not have an intolerant opinion about him? That makes zero sense. If he can be intolerant, I better be fucking able to be intolerant of him. If he can say immigrants are diluting our gene pool, then I can say he's a shitty person for saying that. He's intolerant of immigrants, and boogie says that should be allowed. Then he says I should be tolerant of that. What. No, I don't have to be tolerant of that. It's not our responsibility to educate JonTron. Either he can learn from this that having stupid opinions is stupid, or he can make a bubble for himself and pretend this is a free speech issue.
"Isn't the middle of racism and white supremacy a swell place to be???"
Nobody is going after boogie, nobody is saying to unsubscribe from him, but his blanket defense of controversial youtubers free from criticism is only enabaling hate speech.
Moderates are used the alt right as a barrier so they can say that even those that arent affiliated with them also want to hear thier hateful ideology. And most of the time these "centrist" people are easily swayed by their two cent phony talking points and muddling of the truth. Manipulating thier doubt, insecurity and paranoia.
Uh. Can someone with more familiarity regarding YouTube people explain this for me? It looks like it's a criticism of Playtonic from what I can tell.
BlastProcessing
Member
Why would he be talking about opinions in a private setting at all? No part of this JonTron thing involves private opinions. It's all about public statements.
Guys like Boogie and TotalBiscuit who go for "there's a middle ground!", "they're just opinions!", and "stop overreacting!" are acting entirely in the interest of their channels. Afraid upsetting the extremely racist because heaven forbid you lose their precious views.
It's disingenuous as fuck and honestly kind of disgusting. They would be far better off just staying quiet.
This is NOT the time to be normalizing or downplaying the seriousness of this kind of overt racism.
It's disingenuous as fuck and honestly kind of disgusting. They would be far better off just staying quiet.
This is NOT the time to be normalizing or downplaying the seriousness of this kind of overt racism.
What is his stance though? One can view this as simply making fun of the scandal.
Mr. Smiley
Member
It's a meme on Dunkey video comments. One random commenter thought Dunkey was black and made a dumb comment. "Fuck you, Dunkey. I don't watch your videos because you are black."
His fanbase largely runs with it.
WorldofMiku
Banned
I unsubscribed to him though. He is basically saying "poor jontron" as people are going against Jon's hate speech.
Jon deserves it. For spreading hate speech that could potentially go in to children's brains. Feck the both of them, Boogie shouldn't be on the fence or flip flopping this. How can you be on the fence when one side is with the racists???
Ohhh okay. A whole bunch of people said they wanted Dunkey to replace JonTron on the first few pages so I was thinking we were about to see a lot of heartbreak.
Tripolygon
Banned
Think they were talking about the Tweet, which just happened.
Boogie's statement is so ridiculous. Supporting someone with racist views is only going to turn away viewers who are against that, and replace them with viewers who support gross views. If your YouTube channel is your main source of income, replacing your viewers with people who support racist and alt-right views like Jontron's is probably the worst thing you could do, as they'll turn against you the moment you say something they construe as being against those views, and with how much Boogie flip flops to support nearly any view, that's gonna happen real quick unless he wants to go deep into alt-right GG territory.
ClosingADoor
Member
Why is Boogie acting like he needs to speak about this then if he is afraid to lose views over it? Just shut your mouth then.
RollerMeister
Neo Member
But think about all the views he can get for just talking about it!
"talking"
Either he criticizes his friend or not, playing footsies is getting nowhere.
For me, the real kicker is what he said before this:
It's just a simple disagreement, you guys! Also, Anita Sarkeesian's view that some gamers are toxic is the same thing as "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool!"
Dictator93
Member
Anita's views and Jontron's views being equivilated like that is sooo silly and wrong. Reminds me of typical american moderate crap about representing "both sides" when one side is not even playing the same game and has no factual basis.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
For me, the real kicker is what he said before this:
It's just a simple disagreement, you guys! Also, Anita Sarkeesian's view that some gamers are toxic is the same thing as "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool!"
it's pretty gross to try and write down 'white supremacy as 'crazy ideas'. However, he still misses the point that you can't force anyone else to like you once you start spouting 'crazy ideas'. No one owes Jon (or Boogie) anything. He acts as if they're entitled to fame and success no matter what they do
Edit: Pretty disgusting he seems to have thrown a 'whataboutfeminism though aren't they the real racists?' in there as well
WhateverItTakes
Banned
For me, the real kicker is what he said before this:
It's just a simple disagreement, you guys! Also, Anita Sarkeesian's view that some gamers are toxic is the same thing as "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool!"
Comparing Jon to Anita at this point is incredibly dumb. Like holy shit how can people have that kind of perspective?
This is why centrism gets you nowhere. If you're trying to equate feminism as extremist and "the other side of the coin" as eugenics/racism/white supremacy, you're STILL caping for gators and right wingers viewpoints.
You know, maybe just cover games and do longplays instead of dipping your hat in the pool if it's so dangerous towards your livelihood to ever get wet.
You know, maybe just cover games and do longplays instead of dipping your hat in the pool if it's so dangerous towards your livelihood to ever get wet.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
For me, the real kicker is what he said before this:
It's just a simple disagreement, you guys! Also, Anita Sarkeesian's view that some gamers are toxic is the same thing as "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool!"
Anita's ideas being compared to JonTron, is just plainly wrong.
Anita wants female representation to be equal and fair on gaming. How's that extreme? The subvert notion that feminism is an extreme ideology of "crazy ideas", is just disgusting.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah it's just nonsense. He's acting as if they're entitled to be successful and free from criticism just because they're entertainers
For me, the real kicker is what he said before this:
It's just a simple disagreement, you guys! Also, Anita Sarkeesian's view that some gamers are toxic is the same thing as "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool!"
In Boogie's mind, someone criticizing the games industry for poor female representation in gaming is the exact same thing as someone advocating for an ideology that calls for the genocide and mistreatment of people who aren't white and saying that immigrants are poisoning the gene pools.
What even.
Reminder that gators resurrected the dead and buried relevance of Jack Thompson and others like him solely to attack women. People that gamers united against and 'took down' and then earnestly dug them back up when a woman said "hey you know some of your games aren't friendly towards 50% of the userbase"
Great job! Well done!
Great job! Well done!
Dirtyshubb
Member
He also in one video said people shouldn't be attacking lucky palmer for his whole nimble controversy but instead because of the shitty business decisions for the rift and how it could negatively effect the vr market.
That was the first moment I thought "what the fuck boogie, how can you say that." Also left a massive post on the video (and I never post on YouTube). After everything with johntron I finally unsubscribed to his account.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Boogie, you disappoint me.
The middle ground is not always the best best place to be.
The middle ground is not always the best best place to be.
Funny, affable JonTron was one of the people who came to Steve King's defense.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
haha, this shit is evergreen. never gets old
Equating JonTron's views on non-white genetic inferiority and advocacy for legal changes to support American white supremacy with Sarkeesian's views on media representation of gender reinforcing social ills is one of the single most idiotic things I've seen around this discussion. I'm dumbfounded anyone could even let that slip out of their lips. Bringing up Sarkeesian as an "extremist" at all shows he's still talking out of both sides of his mouth more than actually making a sincere point about what's going on.
The validity of civil reactions to speech is as much a part of the philosophy of free speech as anything else. In its own twisted way, considering Boogie's specifically outlined his own concerns about how his audience might abandon him if he says the wrong things, he should understand the basis for another personality-based celebrity facing consequence for alienating their base. JonTron is not a professional voice actor, and he did not lose a job in any meaningful way. His public advocacy was abhorrent to the team and was a liability to the product he was originally included in for promotion and out of respect for his love for the game's precursors.
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