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[Chris_Rivera]

So this boost mode lets the games use both GPUs or just the newer one?

It's not actually two gpu's is it? I thought they just designed it to be able to easily mimic the PS4's config.

 

[Inuhanyou]

So this boost mode lets the games use both GPUs or just the newer one?

You seem to be misunderstanding, the whole GPU is new. It has double the compute units as the original PS4. They just shut off half of those compute units and downclocked the machine to emulate the original PS4.

 

[III-V]

Boost mode allows full access to glorious butterfly GPU

 

[outunderthestars]

Has anyone tried Until Dawn?

 

[scream]

You seem to be misunderstanding, the whole GPU is new. It has double the compute units as the original PS4. They just shut off half of those compute units and downclocked the machine to emulate the original PS4.

Are you sure?

For the more than 700 or so existing PS4 games, Cerny said the goal was to ensure those titles played smoothly no matter what. That's why the Pro incorporates an identical GPU.
Because the new console has "the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself," Sony can support existing games with a simple trick: "We just turn off the second GPU," he said.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13350476/sony-ps4-pro-mark-cerny-4k-games-psvr-graphics

Boost mode allows full access to glorious butterfly GPU

Confirmed?

 

[Audioboxer]

You seem to be misunderstanding, the whole GPU is new. It has double the compute units as the original PS4. They just shut off half of those compute units and downclocked the machine to emulate the original PS4.

This.

Pro patches for older games just unlock it all too, but usually the devs also focus on extra bells and whistles like a higher resolution or texture quality.

For example, even with boost mode an open world game like Just Cause 3 is still pretty silent on my PS4. Whereas FF15 is quite noisy. Games that push the res up higher and do things like HDR obviously push the GPU harder than a non-pro game with boost mode on will. From my initial testing there is actually zero difference in fan noise from boost mode off to on for me.

 

[Nachtfalke]

So many 30fps videos for games with uncapped framerates or 60fps target flying around.

 

[Shai-Tan]

does boost mode actually use the other gpu (other 18 compute units to make 36 in total) or does it just not downclock the one that's in use? any confirmation whatsoever on that front? (ps4 is 800mhz, ps4 pro is 911mhz). then the cpu has the same cores but runs at 2.1ghz vs 1.6ghz in the original. I think it's just using the higher clock rate on the same compute units from this quote:

Boost Mode lets PS4 Pro run at a higher GPU and CPU clock speed for smoother gameplay on some PS4 games that were released before the launch of PS4 Pro (and has not been updated to support PS4 Pro).

Games that have a variable frame rate may benefit from a higher frame rate, and load times may be shorter in some games too.

 

[pixellated_man]

It could be more significant than the XB1S boost: PS4 has a 1.6 ghz cpu clock and 800 mhz gpu clock. Games developed for vanilla PS4 could now deal with a 2.13 ghz cpu and 911 mhz gpu clock. So 30% gain for cpu and 20% for gpu. That's more than the 7% increase of XB1S over XB1.

It is a more significant increase than Xbox One S. Just looking at videos it is obvious. DF comparisons will show people who are bad at judging videos (stop using your phone screen!), what a big boost it actually is with most of the badly performing games on regular ps4.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

If only someone would have said something before December that could have warned you about the chances of a Boost Mode

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225111009&postcount=155

I have learned to never doubt you from now on, what is this, like your 4th "I told you so moment"

:youreawizard:

 

[timmyp53]

You seem to be misunderstanding, the whole GPU is new. It has double the compute units as the original PS4. They just shut off half of those compute units and downclocked the machine to emulate the original PS4.

No actually Cerny himself said it was two GPUS side by side.

 

[III-V]

Confirmed?

I forget in what interview, but Cerny described it as a butterfly GPU lol. Hard to tell if he is using a simple analogy or actually describing the physical architecture.

At the end of the day, without boost mode, older titles were effectively down clocked and only have of the CU's were in operation.

With boost mode on, we do not know exactly what is happening 'officially', but it would make some sense that the down clocking limitation is removed and he game runs on all the full GPU.

 

[d9b]

It is a more significant increase than Xbox One S. Just looking at videos it is obvious. DF comparisons will show people who are bad at judging videos (stop using your phone screen!), what a big boost it actually is with most of the badly performing games on regular ps4.

Xbox One S have 1 maybe 2 frames increase in some games, Pro Boost Mode is straight up Beast Mode. Praise Cerny!

 

[Marlenus]

Are you sure?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13350476/sony-ps4-pro-mark-cerny-4k-games-psvr-graphics


Confirmed?

100% positive. Cerny was talking on a conceptual level, not the nitty gritty architectural details level.

The GPU is 36 CUs vs 18 in the OG PS4 so in essence you could say they just doubled the OG PS4 GPU but they also used Polaris and Vega features like double fp16 performance, colour compression tech, primitive discard etc etc which were not part of the OG PS4 architecture.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Are you sure?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13350476/sony-ps4-pro-mark-cerny-4k-games-psvr-graphics


Confirmed?

That is theverge's interpretation, which is wrong.

 

[Inuhanyou]

No actually Cerny himself said it was two GPUS side by side.

That was an interpretation of what he said, which is wrong. Open up the PS4 Pro and you will not see 2 GPU's in the APU configuration with 18 CU's each. You will see one GPU with 36 compute units.

 

[Kensation]

Trying Until Dawn now. Runs much better, -20 stuttery-ness I'd say.

 

[Marlenus]

That was an interpretation of what he said, which is wrong. Open up the PS4 Pro and you will not see 2 GPU's in the APU configuration with 18 CU's each. You will see one GPU with 32 compute units.

36 but yes, it's a single GPU, would be far too expensive and finicky to use a dual GPU setup in a console. Would also need 16GB of ram due to how dual GPU systems work.

EDIT: Damn it! why are there not any PS4 pro die shots?

 

[Dezzy]

I wonder if this will help out Dragon Quest Builders a lot. That game drops frames pretty often. Anyone in beta happen to try it out?

 

[JetSetRadio]

I wonder if this will help out Dragon Quest Builders a lot. That game drops frames pretty often. Anyone in beta happen to try it out?

Haven't really noticed those, there is this annoying camera stutter though in the english versions. I'm not too sensitive for drops though, it has to be bad like bloodborne/ds3.

 

[Metfanant]

So GT Sport,on Pro,with boost mode should be glorious.

Hopefully.

GT won't use boost mode..It will have built in Pro support...

 

[LelouchZero]

No actually Cerny himself said it was two GPUS side by side.

I think it's an interpretation and a simplification of the concept.

Double the compute units, laid out like a mirror of the original PS4's GPU. Half the CUs deactivate when running in base PS4 mode

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console (EuroGamer)

Interestingly the original PS4 GPU appears to have 20 compute units, a total of 1280 cores. 2 of which are disabled for the final spec of the PS4's GPU which is 1152 cores.

I wonder if the additional compute units were cut from the chips used in later models?

I would love to see a die shot of the PS4 Pro's APU!

Here's one of the original PS4:

A Look at Sony's Playstation 4 Core Processor (Chipworks)

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

Isn't that pretty much a solid 30 FPS already? You wouldn't see much if any difference there.

ah ok thanks!

 

[nismopower]

Its pretty remarkable how much confusion there is around the pro and kts support for older and newer games.
As for me the info about this was extremely straight forward and clear.

1. Any game released before launch ps4 pro isnt obligated to support the pro.(but it can if dev wants to as is shown with couple games).
2. Any game released after launch ps4 pro is obligated to support the ps4 pro.
3. Ps4 pro boost option in the 4.5 beta firmware is only compatible with games that do not support the ps4 pro. So we are talking about games released before launch ps4 pro and do not have a ps4 pro support patch.

This is it and nothing more.

Also the boost modus only works with games that have unlocked framerates/dynamic resolution, or games that are capped at say 30/60 fps but tend to be running lower than this.
So if a game is say 1080p and locked 30fps you aint gonna see a difference. Same with 1080p locked 60 etc.
But games like bf4 that runs at 900p and 60fps but tends to run lower then the 60fps is getting a boost. Some say even locked 60fps now.

 

[outunderthestars]

Trying Until Dawn now. Runs much better, -20 stuttery-ness I'd say.

-20?

 

[Kensation]

-20?

Yes, whereas I'd say it originally had 35 units of stuttery-ness, Boost Mode reduces it to 15.

 

[Metfanant]

Can you just leave it on while playing pro patched games or do you have to manually unbox it everytime?

yes, it only effects titles without pro patches, because they already use the full power

So this boost mode lets the games use both GPUs or just the newer one?

there is only 1 GPU in the Pro...

No actually Cerny himself said it was two GPUS side by side.

no, he was simply referring to the concept of the GPU...The OG PS4 had 18 CUs...The Pro has 36...

I forget in what interview, but Cerny described it as a butterfly GPU lol. Hard to tell if he is using a simple analogy or actually describing the physical architecture.

At the end of the day, without boost mode, older titles were effectively down clocked and only have of the CU's were in operation.

With boost mode on, we do not know exactly what is happening 'officially', but it would make some sense that the down clocking limitation is removed and he game runs on all the full GPU.

He was definitely talking about it on a conceptual level...

We have to remember that the Cus in the Pro GPU are upgraded quite a bit from the OG in addition to there being twice as many...It's not like they took an OG GPU and slapped a new version of it next to it...You would have half your GPU using old CUs and the other one using new updated cores with all the Polaris and beyond goodies...

This is a totally new SINGLE GPU with new features, and twice as many CUs

 

[Planet]

Interestingly the original PS4 GPU appears to have 20 compute units, a total of 1280 cores. 2 of which are disabled for the final spec of the PS4's GPU which is 1152 cores.

I wonder if the additional compute units were cut from the chips used in later models?

No, because that is a very common way to increase yields in production. Many produced chips have faults in one or two CUs, those are still fine to ship. A redesign with 2 less CUs would cost money to design and saves almost nothing in die surface size. But it would increase faulty chip rate, so nothing to gain here.

I bet the Pro APU has 40 CUs, 4 of which deactivated.

 

[Ferr986]

I wonder if this will help out Dragon Quest Builders a lot. That game drops frames pretty often. Anyone in beta happen to try it out?

Builders is smooth but it suffers from framepacing when you have a block in your hand. Weirdly it doesn't happen if you have nothing selected. And even more weirdly, this issue wasn't present in the japanese version.

 

[GeoNeo]

If only someone would have said something before December that could have warned you about the chances of a Boost Mode

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225111009&postcount=155

onQ123 the prophet. Good shit bro.

 

[III-V]

He was definitely talking about it on a conceptual level...

We have to remember that the Cus in the Pro GPU are upgraded quite a bit from the OG in addition to there being twice as many...It's not like they took an OG GPU and slapped a new version of it next to it...You would have half your GPU using old CUs and the other one using new updated cores with all the Polaris and beyond goodies...

This is a totally new SINGLE GPU with new features, and twice as many CUs

I agree it is completely new single GPU and not two old ones slapped together. If you look at the photo of the OG PS4 physical architecture above, it is plain to see the symmetry in design. When Cerny says butterfly GPU I can envision that one half of the design (the mirror) is not utilized, which is why he kept on with these 'dual' analogies.

 

[gagecube]

Has anyone tried Until Dawn?

Here's my short little video

https://youtu.be/s_qxTERAn8I

 

[outunderthestars]

Here's my short little video

https://youtu.be/s_qxTERAn8I

Awesome! Thanks for posting.

 

[psychotron]

Welp, Psychonauts runs like a mess unfortunately. Ran bad before too, so it's no fault of boost.

 

[GET2DAACHOPPAAAA]

Welp, Psychonauts runs like a mess unfortunately. Ran bad before too, so it's no fault of boost.

Damn, I picked this up this last time it was on sale and couldn't play it, it ran so bad.

 

[Padinn]

does boost mode actually use the other gpu (other 18 compute units to make 36 in total) or does it just not downclock the one that's in use? any confirmation whatsoever on that front? (ps4 is 800mhz, ps4 pro is 911mhz). then the cpu has the same cores but runs at 2.1ghz vs 1.6ghz in the original. I think it's just using the higher clock rate on the same compute units from this quote:

I have not noticed my PS4 Pro fans kicking in boost mode (when running Project Cars) like it does in Pro enabled games (FFVX for example). To me I sense that what is happening is that the CPU/GPU/Memory clocks are ramping up, but that the other compute units aren't being used.

I could be totally wrong, this is a very unscientific observation. The temperatures in my home are also about as cold as they get (I'm in FL) so that could be a factor.

 

[Negotiator]

No, because that is a very common way to increase yields in production. Many produced chips have faults in one or two CUs, those are still fine to ship. A redesign with 2 less CUs would cost money to design and saves almost nothing in die surface size. But it would increase faulty chip rate, so nothing to gain here.

I bet the Pro APU has 40 CUs, 4 of which deactivated.

Fair enough, but what if the defects happen to be somewhere else (e.g. ROPs, TMUs, memory controller)? Why does transistor redundancy apply to Radeon CUs (or Cell SPUs) only?

ps: We still don't know the exact GPU specs (ROPs & TMUs are not the same amount as in the OG GPU, right?)

 

[Wishmaster92]

Damn, digital foundry still hasn't posted a video yet? I'm itching to see some frame rate numbers especially with some 60fps titles like doom and outlast 2 demo.

 

[Marlenus]

Fair enough, but what if the defects happen to be somewhere else (e.g. ROPs, TMUs, memory controller)? Why does transistor redundancy apply to Radeon CUs (or Cell SPUs) only?

ps: We still don't know the exact GPU specs (ROPs & TMUs are not the same amount as in the OG GPU, right?)

It's a compromise between yield and die size. A few extra CU clusters is a net beneficial trade off. If you add too much extra stuff though the cost per chip goes above the amount saved on having more working chips.

 

[Miggytronz]

So The Division wouldnt get any help from this BOOST MODE at all then? Because it got a PRO Update that literally did nothing to gameplay.

 

[LelouchZero]

No, because that is a very common way to increase yields in production. Many produced chips have faults in one or two CUs, those are still fine to ship. A redesign with 2 less CUs would cost money to design and saves almost nothing in die surface size. But it would increase faulty chip rate, so nothing to gain here.

I bet the Pro APU has 40 CUs, 4 of which deactivated.

Yeah I know about disabling portions of chips due to yield issues. I would be really interested in seeing the die of the Pro's APU.

Fair enough, but what if the defects happen to be somewhere else (e.g. ROPs, TMUs, memory controller)? Why does transistor redundancy apply to Radeon CUs (or Cell SPUs) only?

ps: We still don't know the exact GPU specs (ROPs & TMUs are not the same amount as in the OG GPU, right?)

No idea about the ROPs, I don't think has 64 ROPs though as it would be performing notably better than an RX 480 in GPU bound scenarios.

EDIT (01/09/2017): I'm completely wrong about it performing "notably better" due to having more ROPs, sorry!
It would have to be ROP bound, and the PS4 Pro's GPU may run into bandwidth limitations. Should the GPU be ROP bound, compute shaders can be potentially used to counter this.

 

[Disker]

So The Division wouldnt get any help from this BOOST MODE at all then? Because it got a PRO Update that literally did nothing to gameplay.

Correct (as ar as we know)

 

[Listonosh]

I've started playing Just Cause 3 and everything is smooth. Never played it before so I can't say how much of a mess it was (although it sounded bad).

Game is pretty fun as well. I've got massive open world fatigue seeing as everything needs to be open world these days, but this is fun!

Man I'm super pumped for this. I recently reinstalled the game after not playing it for a while, hoping patches would have fixed the framerate, and it ran just as shitty as on day one. Really excited that Boost mode makes this game finally playable.

 

[Syranth]

I seriously doubted anyone would try a Lego game so I made a video for Lego Dimensions. Lego games are fun but TT isn't the best at optimizing their engine. The Boost Mode clearly got rid of the screen tearing that is typically present in their games.

https://youtu.be/XG2YoQQ62eY

tldr - Boost Mode polishes Lego games

 

[icespide]

So The Division wouldnt get any help from this BOOST MODE at all then? Because it got a PRO Update that literally did nothing to gameplay.

since the division already has a Pro mode it already sees whatever benefits boost mode offers

 

[Miggytronz]

since the division already has a Pro mode it already sees whatever benefits boost mode offers

which is dumb because its just 4K UI only. Boooooooooooooo!

 

[UpUpDownDown]

OK.

Who's gonna make a boost video of no man's sky for us peasants?

 

[icespide]

which is dumb because its just 4K UI only. Boooooooooooooo!

which means it performs exactly as it would in boost mode only now with a 4k UI

 

[Rellik]

I seriously doubted anyone would try a Lego game so I made a video for Lego Dimensions. Lego games are fun but TT isn't the best at optimizing their engine. The Boost Mode clearly got rid of the screen tearing that is typically present in their games.

https://youtu.be/XG2YoQQ62eY

tldr - Boost Mode polishes Lego games

That screen tearing was horrible and unplayable. Good to see it's gone.

 

[Tagg9]

which is dumb because its just 4K UI only. Boooooooooooooo!

It's probably not just that. They have access to the the entire GPU, so performance is likely better as well.