Skifi28
Member
The PS4 pro was worth it for a single game that was just "less broken" on it which shouldn't have been broken in the first place? Your standards for what is a worthy hardware upgrade are a fucking mess, just leave us all alone.
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
Zathalus
Member
You probably want to ask David Wang and his team at AMD. Dude gets no love despite his extremely impressive work. Initial RDNA design was likely headed by Raja Koduri though.
Loxus
Member
Him and the team will get their love when they finally release this thing that's far sure.
Perrott
Member
Right now, quite a lot of current-gen only games play and look like shit in their performance modes on PS5. Between the higher specs and PSSR, the PS5 Pro would be able to clean up all those games and bring them to current standards of both image quality and performance.
For instance, Final Fantasy XVI holding 60fps while traversing the field and running at either PSSR performance (1080p) or balanced (~1253p) for a final reconstructed 4K output would be just as transformational for that game (and players who prioritize performance) as the Cyberpunk PS4 situation you've described.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Not 100% sure why the Pro was delayed because its silicone has been ready awhile now so anything I have to offer is just guessing (Cost, maybe giving Devs more time with PSSR) I just don't know for sure
Its going to be an interesting battle between the Pro and whatever Xbox brings to the table because its like to cost more than the Pro but it too sounds like its not only going to have much newer tech Zen 2 vs says Zen 5 but also rely heavily on AI features
I have only heard of one game in particular thats a yearly shooter installment thats already running 120 fps on consoles and sounds like it was fairly easy to get it running in what "looks nearly 4k at 120fps" with little effort on a patch
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
This could wind up like the PSVR 2. Some people are interested but not enough to justify the increased cost. I personally love tech but do not care to shell out another $600 mininmum just for a little improved resolution and improved framerates. If it does not sell well Sony will drop it fast, just look at how poorly the PSVR2 has been supported. I just don't see a bunch of people in this economy willing to shell out the additional cost for little benefit. There will always be a select few with money to burn who gets the latest and greatest but do not see "PS5 Pro" being a huge success at all.
thebigmanjosh
Member
One of the biggest trends lately with the whole AI PC push has been MS’s championing of ARM.
Would be interesting if this is part of their watershed moment to shift away from x86 once and for all with custom ARM (Qualcomm) architecture for their hybrid mobile device and AMD chips for the home console.
I also can’t imagine Sony has been too happy with AMDs offerings. They’ll never go back to Nvidia, but this PSSR semi custom/custom approach will likely expand with the PS6. I’d expect 2028/29 at the earliest
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Alebrije
Member
Yep You should not get a PS5 PRO, it will end covered in dust.
Once you are a PC player is hard to get back to consoles specially if You look for high end graphics.
Personally consoles are better because for a good price You get spects that would be more expensive on a PC.
Imtjnotu
Member
i got back and forth on PC or PS5. also heavy on my switch when it comes to games.
logic for graphics here makes no sense
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Same here. I have a 7900gre which although not a 4900 still plays all latest games at ultra. I happily alternate between PS5 and PC. Will 100% be getting a pro
I guess, but that's more of a frame-time improvement since those games were at least attempting back in the day of doing a hitch-free 30fps experience, even if they didn't actually get there. I was just hoping we'd get a 60fps experience with most of these older games, especially if they're releasing them in batches which indicates to me manual review/tweaking of each game vs. just automating emulation for all games released on those platforms.
It's at least nice that it's happening at all, because I know some people would like to play those older games, but don't want to fuss with installing/tweaking an emulator on PC or even Steam Deck-like device.
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Perrott
Member
What are you even talking about? The PSVR2 pretty much equals to having another, entirely separate hardware ecosystem around, as the work that goes into making any VR game or mode pretty much equals making an entirely new game from the ground up in most scenarios.
And you're really comparing that to having to patch games for the PS5 Pro?
First, we know from leaked documentation that PS5 Pro support past August 2024 is gonna be mandatory to all developers releasing new PS5 games. There's just no dodging that, but even if there was, the actual effort that goes into making even the most barebones patch is minimal: a single Bend Studio engineer got Days Gone running on PS4 Pro in just a few hours from the moment they received the devkits.
Also, why are you so obsessed over whether the PS5 Pro turns to be a "huge sales success" or not? How do you even measure that? Roughly three in ten PS4 sales from the moment the PS4 Pro came out were Pro units - which makes for around 15m consoles sold, likely more than the Series X is projected to sell in its entire lifecycle. Is that enough "success" for you?
ChiefDada
Member
Lol not even close to the same situation.
Imtjnotu
Member
The pro is a day one for me. Once sony drops a pre order I drop my card.
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Little Mac
Member
So are rumors suggesting the pro was delayed? Or are we still on track for a release this fall/holiday season?
I’m out of the loop.
I’m out of the loop.
PeteBull
Member
Sept reveal, nov launch, so we are in final stretch, just survive summer and we will be fed official info.
But he totally forgot, that there are not only more ALUs but also more cache,... with a bigger chip. It's just not that easy how it is stated there. Higher clock speeds (if possible) is the cheapest way to get higher performance. Cheaper for the manufacturer, not for the customer. It is just a kind of more efficient when looking on transistor counts.Well, it ain't about hitting 5 WGP or not.
It's about trying to find out why Mark Cerny changed his philosophy on CU count.
Road to PS5
"In general, I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.
Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment, don't take these configurations too seriously.
If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually, the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.
That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency, rasterization goes 33% faster. Processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.
About the only downside, is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.
Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
The bolded is the most important in this case. Why would Cerny increase the CUs within the Shader Engines even though it's already hard to utilize 48CUs in parallel?
AMD also never go over 5WGP per Shader Array. How Cerny figure it out is what I'm interested in learning.
And especially with 3d graphics it is really easy to scale. But you always have a bottleneck somewhere and if this isn't scaling with the chip, you don't get the extra performance.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Its on track for this Holiday
The delay was it could have launched much earlier as the silicone has been ready for over a year
Little Mac
Member
Bry0
Member
Really wonder why that was. It will be interesting to see what kind of amalgamation of RDNA feature sets it has, especially if it was done over a year ago.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Have seen some say cost and others say give Devs more time with PSSR but I personally have no clue
Bry0
Member
Both make a lot of sense. Especially cost, I could see them waiting for 5/6nm to get cheaper as the big players move to the most advanced nodes. I’m no expert in how the pricing of all that works though.
nial
Gold Member
Damn, I didn't think of it in that way, now it sucks that we never got it.Den-Sen
Action game that followed the adventures of a young girl who swings and slides along electrified sets of wires.
Damn, it would have been Boku no Natsuyasumi x inFAMOUS, except that months before the release of Boku no Natsuyasumi and nine years before the release of inFAMOUS
Kinda funny that all but 3 of those projects were cancelled/delayed out of 2000, and one of those 3 titles was a remaster of a PS1 game.
On PS2 at least there's a lot more 60fps targeted software than any other older console - so there's that. Broad-stroke patching is clearly never gonna be a thing, even homebrew penetration is very limited, and that has entire communities behind it. The only way to get it more - universally - is to use interpolation like the recent N64 projects are doing, but obviously that's not actual 60 then.
I do agree any additional coverage would be nice though - especially with PS3 games if those actually happen. FPS unlocking does get easier from that era due to the nature of hw-abstraction layers getting a bit thicker.
The batches are primarily a result of licensing restrictions - not any technical background. It's been done that way since Sony first introduced BC games on PSN back in 2006, and other platform holders did the same for their respective BC catalogue's online.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
If the rumours are true that the next Xbox is a Windows based ARM OEM then chances are they’ll be waiting for the PC version to arrive.Same with me I have really no limit so let me follow up
Could another platform tempt you away from the PS5 Pro for around $1000 for the best experience for GTA?
SonGoku
Member
RDNA4 for sure, considering RT improvements missing on 3.5 and AI blocks aiding image reconstruction
vivftp
Member
Also worth keeping in mind that last year is when the PS5 finally got in stock to try and meet demand. They were going to sell a massive amount of consoles regardless. The Pro is also meant as a sales booster, so no need to pull the trigger on that when they're already guaranteed a huge amount of consoles - keep in mind they were originally aiming for 25 million units.
Now that the post-pandemic rush is over and sales projections are a bit lower, now's the time to get moving on the Pro to boost sales further. And if the rumors of a handheld are true then I wouldn't be surprised if that drops next year to add another sales boost.
Devs would surely appreciate the extra time too, given how much game production was disrupted by the pandemic. SIE stated they were only recently over the pandemic disruptions to their pipeline a couple months ago.
A good chunk of PS5 Pro owners are likely to be double dippers, so might as well let folks grab all the PS5s they can before bringing in the Pro to entice them to upgrade.
MikeM
Member
People play on both for different reasons. I play on both- i’ll never be just one system. I love my console as much and probably more than my 7900xt PC.
I figured licensing was part of the batch releases as well, just hoping the cadence is considerably better than what Nintendo has been doing on the Switch with retro emulation.
Little Mac
Member
What kind of performance boost are we talking about with existing games like Helldivers 2, or maybe FFXVI?
Imtjnotu
Member
Native 4k60 at least for those 2
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't think that his philosophy changed. If anything, how I understand his thinking is that he would sooner clock higher, than add more CUs. That's not saying he has a disdain for more CUs, just that he has a preference for higher clocks. That 36CU mark they hit with the PS4pro, has pretty much gotten clocked as high as they could with the PS5. And also, even if they are going with more CUs now, it doesn't mean that everything said then still doesn't stand true, it's just necessary now and with the PS5 launch, it wasn't.Well, it ain't about hitting 5 WGP or not.
It's about trying to find out why Mark Cerny changed his philosophy on CU count.
Road to PS5
"In general, I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.
Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment, don't take these configurations too seriously.
If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually, the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.
That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency, rasterization goes 33% faster. Processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.
About the only downside, is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.
Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
The bolded is the most important in this case. Why would Cerny increase the CUs within the Shader Engines even though it's already hard to utilize 48CUs in parallel?
AMD also never go over 5WGP per Shader Array. How Cerny figure it out is what I'm interested in learning.
Think of it, they would have to find a way to clock it (36CU) as high as around 4Ghz to get a similar performance to a 60CU chip clocked at ~2.3Ghz.
More evidence that he's just not resorted to throwing more CUs at the problem, they are throwing in AU units and they didn't just go for another doubling of the CU count and go up to 72. Even though that would have been possible.
My current theory (or rule of thumb), is that any game that runs at or has a 60fps mode on the base PS5 (900p-1080p), will have a 60fps mode while running at 1440p or more which will then be reconstructed to 4K using AI. And this will look better than whatever the base PS5 was doing in its 30fps mode, or look the same as the base PS5 in its 30fps mode while running at 60fps on the Pro (using AI upscaling).
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Eiknarf
Member
Quit acting like a crybaby and have a discussion or debate
Was there a PS2 Pro? Was there a PS3 Pro?
I didn’t get into PS until the 4, so know NOTHING about any console prior
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Not digging through you guys back and forth but no there wasn't a PS2 or PS3 Pro
People always tend to forget the then Playstation Andrew House stated
"I saw some data that really influenced me, It suggested that there's a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that's obviously where it's to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our ecosystem by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro--and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement."
Sony made the PS4 Pro to keep people in their ecosystem, that's it.
vivftp
Member
Indeed. I've seen so many people come up with convoluted explanations for why these Pro consoles exist, but it really all boils down to that. It becomes even more relevant when console gens get longer and the base console grows long in the tooth.
Sure there're other benefits to a Pro console, but retaining/attracting the more demanding user is their primary purpose.
Skifi28
Member
Discuss what? Your argument about what made the PS4 pro worth it doesn't make any sense and you don't seem to be willing to elaborate further, so I'm out.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
There has to be more to this delay / release till this fall. Im sure some of it is to have a higher number of games patched and ready to go for launch and launch window to keep momentum going. However I feel there is something we’re not seeing / hearing about that’s going to make the system a “Must Have” maybe it’s fully backward compatibility with old game consoles but in higher resolution/frames or maybe, higher and faster frames for remote play to the portal / over web.
I don’t believe it’s just a 2x spec bump and they release it into the wild!
I don’t believe it’s just a 2x spec bump and they release it into the wild!
ChiefDada
Member
This thread/PS5 Pro isn't for people in search of the next console generation (i.e. you).
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Exactly. At some point in the gen, you can get a PC for around $5-600 that can outperform any console. And when console money can get you a PC that performs better than the console, console prices start to drop, and certain kinda gamers, those not willing to spend a fortune on PC, will opt for a PC instead that cost around $700/$800.
A Pro console, resets that conversation again. Basically says, "hey, for $500/$600 you can get a console that you would need to spend $1000 to match with a PC." The very same proposition was made in 2020 when the PS5 launched.
There is also the added benefit that a lot of early adopters are not just likely to upgrade, but they would sell their current console, which ends up ultimately just increasing the user base of the platform.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Ps5 pro 599.99 4k/60 native
120/240 with Super Resolution and frame generation.
Native support and upscaling / frame boost for PlayStation store titles for PS4/ps3/ps2/ps1
New DualShock controller with longer battery life
DAY FREAKING ONE BABY
/completely speculative
120/240 with Super Resolution and frame generation.
Native support and upscaling / frame boost for PlayStation store titles for PS4/ps3/ps2/ps1
New DualShock controller with longer battery life
DAY FREAKING ONE BABY
/completely speculative
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Don’t think 4K60 native is happening.
SegaSnatcher
Member
And it would make PSSR pointless. I hope we get 4K upscaled from 1440p base res. That should look really good if PSSR is on par with DLSS 2.0 or better.
Vroadstar
Gold Member
Ah, yes, clearly your tag describes perfectly your beacon of accuracy, illuminating the path to flawless foresight.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Sell your current PS5 for like tree fiddy and you are more than halfway to a Pro.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Even a $4000 PC with a $2500 GPU can't guarantee 4K@60. Why would anyone thin.... sorry, dream that a $500 console would?
Dorfdad
Gold Member
It’s a 599.99 console lol… but I hear you let me live in my dream….
DJ12
Member
Firstly, no game is going to target a $4000 pc, if they did yes you could guarantee 4k60.
Secondly, no one is going to target a ps5 pro, so there's every chance it can run ps5 games at a higher res, framerate and fidelity.
You only need to look at the series S and X to for proof of that.
JerryinSoCal
Member
For some reason people keep talking about the Pro like it's supposed to be a new gen console, it's an enthusiast machine and they don't need launch games etc for it. It's still in the PS5 line, just the highest end version you'll be able to get.