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[PeteBull]

The point of PS5 Pro IS raytracing and AI capabilities (PSSR)

Who cares about raster?

Many of us do, raster is basis for everything else

 

[MisterXDTV]

Many of us do, raster is basis for everything else

Well it's not the main focus of PS5 Pro that's for sure

 

[diffusionx]

So much wrong here... where does one even start.

4090 and Switch? I am not even gonna bother with this one...

Guess what though, The PS5pro sales pitch will ALSO be get this if you want the best-looking games on your 4K TV. Powered by AI. I am sure the nomies will know what AI is... you know, that thing that everyone and their toaster is now claiming to have.

Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.

Now, videogame forum posters care, videogame forum posters also spend $1000+ on a GPU in a way, graphics power matters so they spend money on it, and complain all day about the base resolution on PS5 games. So that's fine, but the idea that this will be anything more than ultra-niche is silly. Videogame forum posters have been begging Nintendo for a Switch 2/Pro for years while the system has sold what, 40 million units.

 

[Zathalus]

The point of PS5 Pro IS raytracing and AI capabilities (PSSR)

Who cares about raster?

I’m just pointing out that if you want to know what the Pro will perform like in regular rasterization the 7800XT is a good reference point. Plus rasterization performance is still going to be pretty important for a very long time.

 

[Dorfdad]

if people have this much excitement, they should just buy a low to mid spec PC today!

It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.

I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..

There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying

 

[MisterXDTV]

I’m just pointing out that if you want to know what the Pro will perform like in regular rasterization the 7800XT is a good reference point. Plus rasterization performance is still going to be pretty important for a very long time.

Sure it's a good reference point, but at the end of the day what matters is the final quality of the "output". And that will depend on the quality of PSSR and RDNA4 RayTracing, not teraflops

Actually only Microsoft really believed that TFs were the measure of graphics quality... We saw how that turned out...

 

[Hunnybun]

It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.

I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..

There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying

The biggest problem is that (at least last generation) a PC doesn't even solve the problem of higher fidelity. Almost all the best looking games last gen were PS4 exclusives, which either never came to PC or took > 2 years to do so.

So I'd be paying £2k to not play the best looking games in a way I don't want. It's not a solution.

Admittedly, now that Microsoft exclusives are actually a thing again, then the PC is at least getting ~ half the best looking games day one. But it's not exactly ideal - you're still looking at all the problems you outlined in addition.

A PS5 Pro is literally EXACTLY what I'm looking for (probably): fidelity modes at 60fps. I can't wait.

 

[Dunker99]

It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.

I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..

There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying

Exactly. Time and time again I see people saying things like “well just get a PC instead”. Completely ignoring the fact that console and PC gaming are completely different. It’s so strange - and I’m seeing it more and more often.

In general…

Console gaming
Sat on the sofa
Play on a big tv (usually in the main room)
Just plug and play - very few settings to mess around with
No upgradable parts - just a console
Using a controller

PC gaming
Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Play on a small monitor
Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game
Every PC can be upgraded with different parts
Using a mouse and keyboard

I have absolutely no interest in PC gaming. I like the simplicity of console gaming. The two are very different.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Exactly. Time and time again I see people saying things like “well just get a PC instead”. Completely ignoring the fact that console and PC gaming are completely different. It’s so strange - and I’m seeing it more and more often.

In general…

Console gaming
Sat on the sofa
Play on a big tv (usually in the main room)
Just plug and play - very few settings to mess around with
No upgradable parts - just a console
Using a controller

PC gaming
Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Play on a small monitor
Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game
Every PC can be upgraded with different parts
Using a mouse and keyboard

I have absolutely no interest in PC gaming. I like the simplicity of console gaming. The two are very different.

What the hell are you talking about?

Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Neither of these are necessary. You can just as easily sit on a couch.

Play on a small monitor

Why? Get a big monitor. Or a tv.

Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game

Lmao. There's no game in existence with hundreds of settings. If changing a few settings boggles your mind then just use a preset. Lots of games will even auto detect your hardware and do settings for you.

Every PC can be upgraded with different parts

Most can but how is this a downside? Here's some more news. You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.

Using a mouse and keyboard

Most games have native controller support. No mouse and keyboard to confuse you.

 

[Traxtech]

Question is, is PSSR system level? Or game by game basis.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Question is, is PSSR system level? Or game by game basis.

Doesn't matter much. Once PS5 Pro support becomes mandatory, PSSR support will be mandatory by default

Every title releasing from this point forward probably HAS to support PS5 Pro knowing it has a November release date

Older titles will have to be patched of course but I think every first party PS5 title will be patched anyway

 

[Perrott]

Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.

You need to consider that back in the PS4 Pro / XOne X days, the biggest selling point of those new machines was "4K" resolution, but in order to take advantage of such features you were required to have a 4K display. So the appeal of an enhanced console last-gen was limited by the fact that they both arrived in the early days of mainstream 4K adoption.

This time around, not only 4K displays already have a massive and still growing install base, but the benefits of a PS5 Pro would be clear as day even without a 4K display, for instance, the moment you see Horizon: Forbidden West with RTGI in an "RTX On" style video, that's gonna be all the marketing the PS5 Pro would need. Higher quality image reconstruction and performance options through PSSR would be the icing on top of the cake.

Personally, this seems like a much more complete and appealing package than what the PS4 Pro offered back in 2016.

 

[Radical_3d]

Many of us do, raster is basis for everything else

The problem with pure raster is that you need insane amounts of it to improve the resolution. And that’s not possible anymore with Moore’s law dead and buried. So it’s better to have a combination of better raster and IA upscaling to keep on climbing the graphical fidelity. nVidia lead the way with that but his implementation is not universal and their prices are a violation of thirteen articles of the Genova Convention. In the end you have what you’d get with raster if RAM and power hasn’t stagnated over the last decade and half, but with other ways of achieving it.

 

[winjer]

Question is, is PSSR system level? Or game by game basis.

It has to be on game basis to be a quality upscaler. That means it has to be a temporal solution, with access to motion vectors, color buffer and depth buffer.
The only way to do this is if a dev exposes these features in their game engine, to the upscaler.
But Sony will probably create an SDK to facilitate integration. Similar to what Nvidia, Intel ad AMD did with their temporal upscalers.

 

[PeteBull]

The problem with pure raster is that you need insane amounts of it to improve the resolution. And that’s not possible anymore with Moore’s law dead and buried. So it’s better to have a combination of better raster and IA upscaling yo keep on climbing the graphical fidelity. nVidia lead the way with that but his implementation is not universal and their prices are a violation of thirteen articles of the Genova Convention. In the end you have what you’d get with raster if RAM and power hasn’t stagnated over the last decade and half, but with other ways of achieving it.

Obviously but still, even what we get, the gpu power increase vs base ps5, will be upmost welcome, all those games staying below 1080p in 60fps modes hopefully will be thing of the past

 

[diffusionx]

You need to consider that back in the PS4 Pro / XOne X days, the biggest selling point of those new machines was "4K" resolution, but in order to take advantage of such features you were required to have a 4K display. So the appeal of an enhanced console last-gen was limited by the fact that they both arrived in the early days of mainstream 4K adoption.

This time around, not only 4K displays already have a massive and still growing install base, but the benefits of a PS5 Pro would be clear as day even without a 4K display, for instance, the moment you see Horizon: Forbidden West with RTGI in an "RTX On" style video, that's gonna be all the marketing the PS5 Pro would need. Higher quality image reconstruction and performance options through PSSR would be the icing on top of the cake.

Personally, this seems like a much more complete and appealing package than what the PS4 Pro offered back in 2016.

Selling a “4K console” at the same time people are upgrading to 4K TVs is actually great timing (it’s when I got mine). But, you said personally. I am sure it is appealing to you personally. It is for me. But this is my point. Most people do not care. The RTX On/RTX Off shit is for people who spend $700+ on a GPU. They’re not normal people. People say “ahh that looks great, how much do I need to get that? Oh? I’m good I’ll just spend that money on Madden UT packs.” PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this.

I’ve said this a number of times but go on any “what pc do you have” polls here on NeoGAF and compare it to the steam hardware surveys. Same thing.

 

[Radical_3d]

Obviously but still, even what we get, the gpu power increase vs base ps5, will be upmost welcome, all those games staying below 1080p in 60fps modes hopefully will be thing of the past

I have my Collector’s Edition of Rebirth with the seal still intact waiting for the Pro patch.

Selling a “4K console” at the same time people are upgrading to 4K TVs is actually great timing (it’s when I got mine). But, you said personally. I am sure it is appealing to you personally. It is for me. But this is my point. Most people do not care. The RTX On/RTX Off shit is for people who spend $700+ on a GPU. They’re not normal people. People say “ahh that looks great, how much do I need to get that? Oh? I’m good I’ll just spend that money on Madden UT packs.” PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this.

I’ve said this a number of times but go on any “what pc do you have” polls here on NeoGAF and compare it to the steam hardware surveys. Same thing.

It’s because we are a bunch of wackos that I like you all.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Lol yeah what else could possibly be the difference between a Switch and a 4090....???

Oh yeah, about $2000.

2000 grand. Enough to buy a nice little runabout. But no..would rather spend it on a fuckin graphics card and some monster munch/mountain dew.

 

[Mobilemofo]

What the hell are you talking about?

Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Neither of these are necessary. You can just as easily sit on a couch.

Play on a small monitor

Why? Get a big monitor. Or a tv.

Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game

Lmao. There's no game in existence with hundreds of settings. If changing a few settings boggles your mind then just use a preset. Lots of games will even auto detect your hardware and do settings for you.

Every PC can be upgraded with different parts

Most can but how is this a downside? Here's some more news. You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.

Using a mouse and keyboard

Most games have native controller support. No mouse and keyboard to confuse you.

He's just saying he couldn't give a fuck about pc gaming. Alot of console folk feel the same way. I know I do. Pop TV on. Change hdmi. Ps5 comes on. Away you go. Simplicity, with a massive TV and surround sound. Happy days.

 

[PeteBull]

Selling a “4K console” at the same time people are upgrading to 4K TVs is actually great timing (it’s when I got mine). But, you said personally. I am sure it is appealing to you personally. It is for me. But this is my point. Most people do not care. The RTX On/RTX Off shit is for people who spend $700+ on a GPU. They’re not normal people. People say “ahh that looks great, how much do I need to get that? Oh? I’m good I’ll just spend that money on Madden UT packs.” PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this.

I’ve said this a number of times but go on any “what pc do you have” polls here on NeoGAF and compare it to the steam hardware surveys. Same thing.

I would argue for sony themselfs keeping those 15% hardcore audiance is extremly important.
They dont gain much from casual who buys 1-2games yearly(usually not even at launch but used/discounted) but a hardcore guy(like many here on gaf) who buys 15-20 games yearly(and most of them at launch, for full 70$/€) is worth retaining, sony doesnt want us to go primary pc, thats the reason ps5pr0 exist

Lets just look what very prominent ps executive Andrew House mentioned in that interview https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around

Regarding the PlayStation 4 Pro, he suggested the Xbox wasn’t even being considered its main competition. Rather, it was the PC. “I saw some data that really influenced me,” he said. “It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

 

[Allandor]

Why you dividing by 2? That 33.5 is the FP32 TFlops.

Dual issue pipeline. In just like RDNA3, turning, you get double the raw power, but is only usable under specific circumstances. In real world this leads to 5-20% better performance (highly use-case specific) but only for a bit more DIE space.

Still quite underwhelming. Not even doubled performance.

 

[Loxus]

Good to see the PS5 Pro discussion is going strong.

We finally have some insight on RDNA3.5.

So, RDNA3.5 is basically the same as RDNA3 with 1 Shader Engine having 2 Shader Arrays, with 4 WGP in each Shader Array.

RDNA4 rumors has the same 4 WGP per Shader Array.

Where does this put PS5 Pro having 8WGP per Shader Array?

I have an idea what may be going on.
This tweet may explain how the PS5 Pro having 8WGP per Shader Array may work.

My guess is Cerny probably figured out how go above 5 WGP per Shader Array without losing performance like the XBSX using subarrays. Most likely the increase in cache is the reason.

Another guess for still using subarrays, is 1 subarray could be dedicated with assisting in AI/RT tasks.

PS5 Pro having RDNA3/4 with subarrays makes it near fully custom, since RDNA2 and up don't use subarrays.

I guess we'll find out in time what going on.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.

If the PS4 Pro didn't meet Sony's sales expectations, do you really think they'd be bothering with a PS5 Pro?

 

[Mobilemofo]

I'm sure somebody will post the PS4 pro + game sale stats to see if the segment delivers more in terms of sales to make it actually worth while.

Yes, I'm certain that will happen.

 

[diffusionx]

I would argue for sony themselfs keeping those 15% hardcore audiance is extremly important.
They dont gain much from casual who buys 1-2games yearly(usually not even at launch but used/discounted) but a hardcore guy(like many here on gaf) who buys 15-20 games yearly(and most of them at launch, for full 70$/€) is worth retaining, sony doesnt want us to go primary pc, thats the reason ps5pr0 exist

Lets just look what very prominent ps executive Andrew House mentioned in that interview https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around

I agree, it’s an audience they want to keep. I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro.

If the PS4 Pro didn't meet Sony's sales expectations, do you really think they'd be bothering with a PS5 Pro?

I never said it didn’t meet their sales expectations.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

I agree, it’s an audience they want to keep. I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro.


I never said it didn’t meet their sales expectations.

You said it "didn't move the needle." That would imply it was a failure. If it was a failure, they wouldn't do it again.

 

[diffusionx]

You said it "didn't move the needle." That would imply it was a failure. If it was a failure, they wouldn't do it again.

No, what I said was in the context of this being more popular than PS4 Pro.

 

[Audiophile]

I wonder if the PS5 retained the ID Buffer hardware (checkerboard hardware) from PS4 Pro (or if it just emulates it another way for BC). Every bit of data could help with upscaling and if they could implement the ID Buffer along with spatial data, general temporal data and the ML inference with PSSR; it might help give it an edge.

--

Another totally different note, perhaps they'll use PS5 Pro as a dry run for chiplets. They could keep the same Zen 2 CPU on N6 with the small upclock rather than porting the architecture down to N5/N4. Then use N5/N4 for the GPU, which being an RDNA3.5 design; already primarily exists on that node.

Even with them being customs chips, keeping them on the same node would save costs. Might be an avenue to getting this out at $499.

 

[ChiefDada]

Only if sony start to taking their first party titles out of their ass.. this launch strategy will be interesting... because right now they have fucking nothing to justify it.

Nonsense. Forget about future 1st party games like Astrobot and GoT2 which of course will be supported with Pro in mind. Returnal, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Ratchet; I will do a full rerun of all these games if they have the new PS5 Pro Graphics mode patched in (which they likely will). Not to mention plenty of previously released 3rd party games with RT, poor image quality, or both will benefit greatly. Oh and that little indie game GTA VI might move the needle a bit too I'll say this again - PS5 Pro will be more successful than PS4 Pro.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Nonsense. Forget about future 1st party games like Astrobot and GoT2 which of course will be supported with Pro in mind. Returnal, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Ratchet; I will do a full rerun of all these games if they have the new PS5 Pro Graphics mode patched in (which they likely will). Not to mention plenty of previously released 3rd party games with RT, poor image quality, or both will benefit greatly. Oh and that little indie game GTA VI might move the needle a bit too I'll say this again - PS5 Pro will be more successful than PS4 Pro.

Agreed

The GTA VI factor alone will be massive as it will be BY FAR the best place to play the game at launch

And I would argue that image quality upgrades are more evident than higher resolution at this point...

 

[PeteBull]

Agreed

The GTA VI factor alone will be massive as it will be BY FAR the best place to play the game at launch

And I would argue that image quality upgrades are more evident than higher resolution at this point...

Indeed, look at that beauty:

Almost 197m views by now, u can be sure game gonna sell 50m copies in its first year, and guess what- with no pc version most of those copies gonna be on playstation.

Question is will we- as core players, wanna play gimped version on base console(or godforbid series S which will likely be under 1080p with some dips under 30fps) or we fork out those few hundo bucks for the pr0 and enjoy full fat experience, its rhetorical question ofc

 

[sendit]

No, what I said was in the context of this being more popular than PS4 Pro.

You're trying to hard (don't worry, i didn't do this manually)

• June 24, 2024: "PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this."
• June 24, 2024: "I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro."
• June 24, 2024: "The idea that this will be anything more than ultra-niche is silly."
• June 24, 2024: "I would expect a lower number from PS5 Pro, honestly. I don’t think this one has the selling point that the PS4 Pro did."
• June 23, 2024: "Series S runs UE5 games better than PS5 and will also on PS5 Pro."

 

[diffusionx]

You're trying to hard (don't worry, i didn't do this manually)

• June 24, 2024: "PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this."
• June 24, 2024: "I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro."
• June 24, 2024: "The idea that this will be anything more than ultra-niche is silly."
• June 24, 2024: "I would expect a lower number from PS5 Pro, honestly. I don’t think this one has the selling point that the PS4 Pro did."
• June 23, 2024: "Series S runs UE5 games better than PS5 and will also on PS5 Pro."

lmao that last quote was a joke

Some dude on twitter said that about black myth wukong

 

[Physiognomonics]

So devs who got devkits are saying exactly what DF is saying and u telling me sony somehow gets apu that is much more advanced? Why would devs get much weaker devkits then? Silicon for ps5pr0 is already set in stone, for months, we wont get better one.
No point to deceive urself/have balooned expectations, otherwise u will end up like those guys who wanted base ps5 to be 13tflop mashine after series X turned out to be 12tflops.
Edit:
Here written article, maybe thats easier to comprehend

Spec Analysis: PlayStation 5 Pro - the most powerful console yet

Tech specs for PlayStation 5 Pro have leaked - Digital Foundry verifies them and delivers analysis and further information.

www.eurogamer.net

Nowhere they say they have input from developers, that's from Sony and the document was intended for developers, not customers. DF are going to focus on Tflops improvements and traditionnal rendering improvements (45% from Sony themselves) which is comparable to 7800 GPUs. It was expected as Tflops do not scale linearly because of modest bandwidth improvements. But you need to forget about Tflops for PS5 Pro generation. Do you talk about Tflops and native resolution when talking about Nvidia GPUs? Nonsense.

With AI upscaling you won't need resolution improvements and with improved RT the final IQ will be much better.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

You said it "didn't move the needle." That would imply it was a failure. If it was a failure, they wouldn't do it again.

They made a PSVR2
Just sayin'

 

[John Wick]

It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.

I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..

There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying

It's a typical response from some PC aficionado's. They think the build or buy a PC is the answer for everybody and everyone. Not everyone wants a PC or the hassle of using one.

 

[Mobilemofo]

It's a typical response from some PC aficionado's. They think the build or buy a PC is the answer for everybody and everyone. Not everyone wants a PC or the hassle of using one.

Yeah. Just tell em to fuck off. Politely of course.

 

[PeteBull]

Nowhere they say they have input from developers, that's from Sony and the document was intended for developers, not customers. DF are going to focus on Tflops improvements and traditionnal rendering improvements (45% from Sony themselves) which is comparable to 7800 GPUs. It was expected as Tflops do not scale linearly because of modest bandwidth improvements. But you need to forget about Tflops for PS5 Pro generation. Do you talk about Tflops and native resolution when talking about Nvidia GPUs? Nonsense.

With AI upscaling you won't need resolution improvements and with improved RT the final IQ will be much better.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7800-xt.c3839 use this graph, its very accurate and got all the gpus, hell u got data for console gpus too.
That way u dont look at teraflops but actual real performance in games.

Thats why we know 4090 is about 3x stronger from base ps5 in raster(much more in raytracing but thats beside the point, its not sony's fault amd had much worse tech in that aspect close to current gen consoles launch), and rx 7800xt is only around 65% strronger, hence we know how strong ps5pr0 gonna be even in best case scenario that it keeps all the performance (clocks) of that gpu.

Lets wait those 2-3 months for ps5pr0 reveal, likely either end of august and if not then for sure september, all our questions gonna be answered by Cerny himself.

Logics and tech advancements tell us pr0 cant be made on 3nm, and only then those 60CU gpu could be overclocked enough from 5nm 7800xt to reach 2x perf of base ps5 while keeping power draw under control- remember console cant eat 500Watts from the wall like top pc gpu's currently do, and we talking not just console gpu, but whole console- all its components, thats the restrain for how powerful console can be, not its price but manufacturing process.

And we know for sure that wont be 3nm for ps5pr0 but imrpoved 5nm process called N4P

NVIDIA RTX 50 "GB202" Gaming GPU reportedly features the same TSMC 4NP process as B100 - VideoCardz.com

Gaming GB202 “Blackwell” GPU using the same node as data-center B100 Kopite confirms B100 and GB202 share the same process. NVIDIA unveiled its latest Blackwell GPU architecture designed for data centers and AI acceleration yesterday, marking the first step in their new architecture push...

videocardz.com

Look for urself, thats best node pr0 could be using, not 3nm but improved 5nm one, and for that it has to compete vs nvidia, currently biggest company in the world which thx to AI dethroned microsoft this year btw

 

[TGO]

WHERE ARE THE NEW LEAKS

Patience!
Give them time to make shit up.

 

[rkofan87]

Kind of funny to still see ps4 pro going for over $300 at retail.

well they cut the ps4pro off and just have the slim now i still think not keeping the ps4 pro in stock was dumb.

 

[rkofan87]

I expect the PS5pro to sell better than the PS4pro did. I don't know why people are so fixated on the resolution thing, The PS5pro doesn't need some sort of resolution sticker to sell well. It just has to be the best console hardware on the market or the best way to experience any console game. That will be enough. Especially if you need to spend over $1000 to get an equivalent PC.

this.

 

[rkofan87]

How is Sony going to market this as a reason to upgrade? PS4 pro had higher resolution support. What’s the big selling point to sell this to people?

more 60 fps games.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.

Now, videogame forum posters care, videogame forum posters also spend $1000+ on a GPU in a way, graphics power matters so they spend money on it, and complain all day about the base resolution on PS5 games. So that's fine, but the idea that this will be anything more than ultra-niche is silly. Videogame forum posters have been begging Nintendo for a Switch 2/Pro for years while the system has sold what, 40 million units.

Again... so much wrong here.

first, you say that the PS4pro sales pitch was 4K (aka graphics tech) (which I also disagree with mind you) and how the Ps5pro doesn't have that to lean on, and now you are saying graphics is not enough of a reason to buy it (which I agree with mind you).

This is my take... as long as the PS5pro, is no more than $100 more than the standard PS5, selling it simply on being the best version of the PS5, the best way to play console games and it being the new thing, is what its going to sell on. Not 4K, graphics, AI....etc. And I expect the sales spread to be about the same 20% or more (up to) 25% of the PS5 sales from the time of its launch till the PS5s EOL. You talk as if EVERYONE who buys a console is doing so because they are trying to save money and will always go for the cheapest version of said console.

And you keep talking switch and using it to make some weird comparisons... its like you don't get how sales or platforms work at all. But so I am not being a complete ass, think of the Switch this way... even if a Switch 2 doesn't release for another 3 years, as long as Nintendo releases games, the Switch will still sell at least 15-18M units every year. I will assume you don't need me to tell you why.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Indeed, look at that beauty:

Almost 197m views by now, u can be sure game gonna sell 50m copies in its first year, and guess what- with no pc version most of those copies gonna be on playstation.

Question is will we- as core players, wanna play gimped version on base console(or godforbid series S which will likely be under 1080p with some dips under 30fps) or we fork out those few hundo bucks for the pr0 and enjoy full fat experience, its rhetorical question ofc

Just asking for science but how much would you actually fork over to play it at even a fuller fatter ultimate console like experience?

 

[Brigandier]

if people have this much excitement, they should just buy a low to mid spec PC today!

Dumb as fuck post that I usually ignore but I'm sick of driveby "just build a PC" posts like this.

Yes let's make a low end PC and have a worse experience than a base PS5? lolno.

I think a vast amount of people would rather have a PS5 Pro for gaming over a mid range PC as it's going to be much better than a mid range PC, I wouldn't call a 7800XT, M.2 ssd and GDDR6 ram with a UHD drive "mid" yes the cpu is looking a bit meh but good luck making a 499-599 PC with them specs.

Exactly. Time and time again I see people saying things like “well just get a PC instead”. Completely ignoring the fact that console and PC gaming are completely different. It’s so strange - and I’m seeing it more and more often.

In general…

Console gaming
Sat on the sofa
Play on a big tv (usually in the main room)
Just plug and play - very few settings to mess around with
No upgradable parts - just a console
Using a controller

PC gaming
Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Play on a small monitor
Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game
Every PC can be upgraded with different parts
Using a mouse and keyboard

I have absolutely no interest in PC gaming. I like the simplicity of console gaming. The two are very different.

Ummm I sold my PC a while back due to financial reasons but I sat on my sofa playing games with a XSX controller on nearly every game, Playing around with settings isn't essential but it's an option and choice isn't a bad thing, Settings should be more available to console users too especially pro console owners.

2000 grand. Enough to buy a nice little runabout. But no..would rather spend it on a fuckin graphics card and some monster munch/mountain dew.

£2,000,000 is more than enough for a little runabout and all the monster munch and mountain dew you'd ever need

 

[Crayon]

Considering only the raster uplift is weak. The upscaling and rt are like 2/3 of the benefits along with that raster.

 

[Durin]

? You can download them (also PSP).

Jumping Flash!

Take the Controls of a Large Robotic Rabbit Known as a Robbit

store.playstation.com

Sly Cooper™ and the Thievius Raccoonus

Master the art of thieving, outsmart foes, and reclaim the family legacy

store.playstation.com

Ape Escape: On the Loose

Hunt down cheeky chimps as they run wild in the Professors stolen time machine

store.playstation.com

Yeah, I saw a youtube video a week ago mentioning their PS2 emulator, and it showed Sly Cooper. So far it looks like they've only gotten to about 30+ games, and they're not offering frame-rate improvements, but it's still great it's happening at all (with upscaling).

I'm just hoping it won't take long before a good chunk of the library gets converted over, and they can do emulation for PS3 games.

 

[PeteBull]

Just asking for science but how much would you actually fork over to play it at even a fuller fatter ultimate console like experience?

600$ for ps5pr0 is great price, doubt sony gonna charge more but knowing what it has under the hood that would be fair imo
Edit: Im crazy guy who bought 3080ti in the middle of crypto boom for 2,2k euro, so personally got no limit hahaha ;D

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

600$ for ps5pr0 is great price, doubt sony gonna charge more but knowing what it has under the hood that would be fair imo
Edit: Im crazy guy who bought 3080ti in the middle of crypto boom for 2,2k euro, so personally got no limit hahaha ;D

Same with me I have really no limit so let me follow up

Could another platform tempt you away from the PS5 Pro for around $1000 for the best experience for GTA?

 

[vivftp]

Same with me I have really no limit so let me follow up

Could another platform tempt you away from the PS5 Pro for around $1000 for the best experience for GTA?

Could you be tempted away from said other platform to play an even better better version of GTA6 for a lot less than $1000 if you wait just a bit longer for the PS6?

Heh, if both companies are gonna be leapfrogging one another every couple of years then I dunno how this is really gonna work out.