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[noshten]

You're so narrow minded. Games don't have a set style. Developers can make whatever fits their vision. The Order has a right to be called game play just as any other game. You don't like it don't buy it. Don't ask for a game play mechanicto be removed from game design.

What about the people who just wanted to watch a movie, possibly press a few buttons here and there(which they could also do on a Smart TV). They bought a title so they can just soak in the story and atmophere, possibly make a few decisions which change the narrative - there are certainly people who don't care about the gameplay.
Are you so narrow minded not to think of those people.

 

[kaching]

You're missing my point. I'm saying if you don't make noise about this kind of thing it keeps happening. The gaming industry is reactionary. By saying "Hey this game shouldn't do this" that cuts down on that type of game.

Who the hell are you to decide what type of games need to be cut down? This type of game in particular doesn't exactly come along every month anyway. The gaming industry isn't knocking everything else aside to make more of these. In the meantime dozens of other games get released - there's enough diversity in this market that you really shouldn't have to worry about whether developers are making the "right" games, because there's plenty of resources working on a wide variety of them. The slope is not nearly as slippery as you're trying to make it out to be.

This game is like everything people complain about in modern gaming distilled into one single game. The idea that people are surprised or confused about why people have a problem with it is ridiculous. It's obvious.

The only thing that's obvious is how OTT your opinion is. This game is clearly not EVERYthing that people complain about just based on the impressions that are starting to roll in from people who have played it, including some of the people who think it's too short.

 

[Apathy]

Lets say gameplay isn't a central concern for a developer.
They wish to make an interactive story, an interactive story doesn't require a gaming machine. All it would require is a way to interact with it. Most of the functions can easily be performed by a smart tv and such stories can be priced accordingly of the resources that it took. If they find the right channel they are also able to reach out to a new market.
It doesn't make sense to me that these types of experiences require a PC or a Console to work. For me developers who want to make a cinematic experience should just go and find the route to make one and partner with companies like Amazon and Netflix who are able to flash out the rest.
Regarding your second question, I never said they shouldn't be released just a different medium would make more sense to me.

But again why? They work great on consoles, lot of us love them and want more. Your trying to solve a non existent problem. Cinematic games can have a place on a console alongside platformers, rpgs and anything else.

 

[meanspartan]

And it doesn't mean the devs should have changed anything.
It's their vision, a lot of people love this stuff.
It doesn't mean you have to ignore the entire genre, but as it seems,
this game right here isn't for you, because what they are doing isn't exactly your cup of tea.
Some of us love to explore everything, look after collectable stuff, etc.
Some don't like it, ingore all that... and think the game is too short?
Yep, not your type of game.

Your paragraph structure is very odd, I almost want to read it like a poem or Haiku lol.

Anyway, I'd say I like to see most things, though I don't go out of my way for collectibles. Now tell me, what is it about The Order's marketing/press releases that make you think it is a game meant for people that love to explore everything and find collectables? Because it kind of seems to me it is more marketed as a cinematic experience.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And it doesn't mean the devs should have changed anything.
It's their vision, a lot of people love this stuff.
It doesn't mean you have to ignore the entire genre, but as it seems,
this game right here isn't for you, because what they are doing isn't exactly your cup of tea.
Some of us love to explore everything, look after collectable stuff, etc.
Some don't like it, ingore all that... and think the game is too short?
Yep, not your type of game.

You're flat out wrong. We're still in hypothetical mode since the game isn't widely available, but no one should be faulted for being disappointed by the length if they play through the game without being a completionist.

 

[tuna_love]

And it doesn't mean the devs should have changed anything.
It's their vision, a lot of people love this stuff.
It doesn't mean you have to ignore the entire genre, but as it seems,
this game right here isn't for you, because what they are doing isn't exactly your cup of tea.
Some of us love to explore everything, look after collectable stuff, etc.
Some don't like it, ingore all that... and think the game is too short?
Yep, not your type of game.

Of course not ONLY! But it's the total package that counts.
The Order: 1886 simply isn't for you as it seems, if you don't like the way it goes.

If you think it's too short and it's not worth 60$, because you ignore all that stuff, then yeah.... this game isn't exactly your cup of tea, as it seems.

You writing a poem?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You spent a day of your life playing the same game twice, non-stop.

Fucking hell, the things you read.

What's wrong with that? TLoU really isn't even that long if you skip the cutscenes. If he enjoys the gameplay, why shouldn't he spend a day playing it?

If you're going to start saying that playing games and having fun is a waste of time, then why are you even here?

 

[meanspartan]

You writing a poem?

THATS WHAT I SAID! hahaha

 

[Derpyduck]

Or he just wants to focus on the combat and story sections. Ya know, the primary parts of the game.

A lot of people don't give a shit about finding collectables, I rarely ever do regardless of what genre it is.

We're all different I guess. I see a bunch of people claiming this game/genre needs to exist because they're sick of open world games where you do side missions, explore the world and collect things. But that's exactly what's happening in this game as well to artificially lengthen it, minus the side quests. But then you have people like me who enjoy collect-a-thons. I love that in the Uncharted games. Just like I enjoy that aspect of open world games. As long as it's not tedious, why not.

 

[Ushay]

So is there any validity to this 5 hour claim?

 

[Meia]

It's all worthless unless those suggestions improve the experience for the player. Soak in the environments because there are story details there. Find the collectables because they open up great little subplots and flesh out the world, or give you substantial rewards. Increase the difficulty because it actually makes the encounters more fun and strategic, rather than simply lowering player health and boosting the enemy's. If any of these things are advised simply so you make the experience longer (through pointlessly slow progress and/or dying repeatedly), it comes across as artificial. I can't even imagine lounging around a linear title just to lengthen the game. If your brain's pleasure center is telling you to progress to find more pleasure, get going. If that makes the experience 6 hours long, so be it, the game was 6 hours long.

Yeah, but mostly every game has stuff like this, and if you like the title enough, you tend to find reasons to stick around. I could have beaten something like Shovel Knight in like 2 hours if I wanted to for example, but I had fun finding treasures you don't need and doing levels you also don't have to for more varied gameplay. In System Shock 2, I really didn't need to read all of the journals and stuff, but I did because it also added to the game.



If you want to skip all the story stuff just for the gameplay, then you'll pick a higher difficulty level for the challenge anyway. If you want to just experience the story without being bothered with hard gameplay, you'll pick a lower difficulty and read everything in the environment. If you find yourself doing both because the game's gameplay and setting are good, you're going to have a higher playtime than someone that does neither. If you find yourself doing neither, I'd have to wonder why you decided to waste your time buying the game anyway. /shrug



Overall, I guess my point is hearing someone belong to a camp of "low difficult and lolstory" going through the game in 5 hours is an absolutely meaningless statistic to me, and probably should be for most.

 

[noshten]

Wow, RAD should have hired you years ago. Any games with an emphasis on a crafting a good story must forever be banished to the world of Amazon and Netflix.

FWIW, it is possible to combine story and gameplay to create a great game. Have you ever played TLoU or MGS where gameplay heavily drives a lot of the story?

I wish they did I would certainly be better than their PR department.

If you want to talk about TLOU and MGS, that's your prerogative. I'm talking about RAD and what they have said thus far about Order:1886.

 

[NavyPharaoh]

This has been bugging me ever since the Youtuber video became the holy grail of the Order's length. Has anyone who has beaten the game watched the walkthrough to make sure it's complete? I mean has anyone thought what if he edited out portions of the game? Not like any of us would know since none of us have played it. Especially with people complaining of some chapters taking only minutes and plenty of fellow Gaffers saying the game is longer than the 5 and a half referenced point.

But why would he want to trick people into thinking the game is only 5 hours? I'm sure his channel has been getting hella traffic. More traffic than it would've got if there wasn't this big controversy around it. Not like you can make money off traffic on YouTube, naw no reason for dishonesty on YouTube.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

So is there any validity to this 5 hour claim?

Well yes, though I haven't been keeping up enough to know if said player was speeding through.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So is there any validity to this 5 hour claim?

5.5~6ish. The entire playthrough is on YouTube. It's just one guy's playthrough, though. Others who claim to have finished the game are reporting longer runs. There may even be other full playthroughs uploaded by now.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

And people who have watched the YouTube playthrough that is getting a bunch of controversy are saying that it wasn't a steamroll. He died multiple times and dallied around in spots, but didn't actively go for the collectibles and didn't really actively investigate his surroundings.

I watched the first two videos of the playthrough and the impression I get is that it was the dude's second playthrough, I could easily see how I could have spent more time looking around so I'm not buying the five hour stuff.

That said, the QTE'S bothered me, they're pretty intrusive and I wasn't expecting them to.

 

[His Majesty]

Why should the skip that stuff? There are people like me who like this stuff.
So again, maybe it's simply not your type of game. And that's it.

Well these people should buy/play a different game then. Because it clearly seems like this isn't the right game for them.
"Exploring" in these kind of games is one of the primary parts I love.
So you know, it's not your cup of tea. Doesn't mean the devs have to change it, just to satisfy them all.
Which is impossible!

Exploring does not equal collecting figurines. In most games collectibles are just busywork, think AC, SoM, DA:I. It often feels like they have been put in the game solely for an extra trophy and extending the gameplay by a few hours. Games anno 2015 should be able to do better.

 

[-MD-]

So is there any validity to this 5 hour claim?

The entire playthrough in question is on youtube.

 

[meanspartan]

Well yes, though I haven't been keeping up enough to know if said player was speeding through.

From numerous people in this thread, he neither rushed through the game, nor took the time to collect everything. He died every so often and such too. Just a casual run through of the game. At least my impression from what people said about it, I have not seen it myself.

 

[Memorabilia]

This is a straight up lie. Quality of experience aside, I just watched the thing beginning to end in 5 and a half hours, dude playing died plenty and spent his time too.

This is odd because it is in contradiction with the guy who started the "Dont Shoot the Messenger" impressions thread. He said he played it on normal and it took him about 9 hours. I wonder what would account for a nearly 4 hour difference in play through time? Serious question. This much difference couldn't possibly stem from one player dying 100x more could it?

 

[John Bender]

Anyway, I'd say I like to see most things, though I don't go out of my way for collectibles. Now tell me, what is it about The Order's marketing/press releases that make you think it is a game meant for people that love to explore everything and find collectables? Because it kind of seems to me it is more marketed as a cinematic experience.

Well after playing it, months ago, and me being a guy who loves to explore everything... it really is made for me. And of course it is a cinematic experience.
That's what RAD already said since the early days.

You're flat out wrong. We're still in hypothetical mode since the game isn't widely available, but no one should be faulted for being disappointed by the length if they play through the game without being a completionist.

Again, if we go back the pure "game lenght":
You can finish games like God of War, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Wolfenstein, etc. in ~2 1/2. And they are great games. If you think 6 - 10 hours aren't enough for this type of game (in this genre) well... then maybe you should keep playing RPG's, Multiplayer and "Open World games. And we don't need tacked-on multiplayer modes to justify a $60 price tag.
In my opinion, they are "flat out wrong" if they think it's too short and doesn't deserve that price tag.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

So is there any validity to this 5 hour claim?

Yes. It's clear that you can proceed through the game at a reasonable pace and beat it in five and a half hours because someone has done that.

It's also clear that you can proceed through the game at a somewhat slower pace and beat it in the neighborhood of 10 hours.

What isn't clear is exactly what those extra 4.5 hours consist of.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I watched the first two videos of the playthrough and the impression I get is that it was the dude's second playthrough, I could easily see how I could have spent more time looking around so I'm not buying the five hour stuff.

That said, the QTE'S bothered me, they're pretty intrusive and I wasn't expecting them to.

I haven't watched a single video of his playthrough. I want to go in fresh.

There's nothing to "buy" about his playthrough length, though. It's not meant to be a definitive statement on the objective length of the game. It was just his experience with it. He clarified that he didn't go for collectibles or optional stuff. He also really enjoyed the game, so it seems unfair that some people are trying to paint him as a villain trying to sabotage Sony and RAD or some shit.

 

[tuna_love]

This is odd because it is in contradiction with the guy who started the "Dont Shoot the Messenger" impressions thread. He said he played it on normal and it took him about 9 hours. I wonder what would account for a nearly 4 hour difference in play through time? Serious question. This much difference couldn't possibly stem from one player dying 100x more could it?

I think Rapier took longer because he was trying to rap his head around the plot.

 

[QuikNez]

I watched the first two videos of the playthrough and the impression I get is that it was the dude's second playthrough, I could easily see how I could have spent more time looking around so I'm not buying the five hour stuff.

That said, the QTE'S bothered me, they're pretty intrusive and I wasn't expecting them to.

Spot on assessment with the QTE, just watched the vid and they were excessive. In my heart of hearts, I was hoping for more gears-esque action.

PS - Frenchies fucking rule

 

[John Bender]

You writing a poem?

Say what you want, but it's easier to read. Isn't it

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

From numerous people in this thread, he neither rushed through the game, nor took the time to collect everything. He died every so often and such too. Just a casual run through of the game. At least my impression from what people said about it, I have not seen it myself.

This is the issue, I also don't want to watch it to see how he plays as I wanna go in fresh, but there is not a single doubt in my mind that for most people the game is gonna be 8-10.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Again, if we go back the pure "game lenght":
You can finish games like God of War, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Wolfenstein, etc. in ~2 1/2. And they are great games. If you think 6 - 10 hours aren't enough for this type of game (in this genre) well... then maybe you should keep playing RPG's, Multiplayer and "Open World games. And we don't need tacked-on multiplayer modes to justify a $60 price tag.
In my opinion, they are "flat out wrong" if they think it's too short and doesn't deserve that price tag.

What about people who play only cinematic third person and first person big-budget shooters, who are generally satisfied with their length, but end up disappointed with the length of The Order? Again, this is hypothetical. I'm bothered by your attempt to draw lines in the sand and invalidate the opinions of anyone who may end up being disappointed by the game length.

This is the issue, I also don't want to watch it to see how he plays as I wanna go in fresh, but there is not a single doubt in my mind that for most people the game is gonna be 8-10.

Why would you have any idea what the length is going to be for "most people?" Where does this certainty come from? Furthermore, why do you care so much?

 

[meanspartan]

I haven't watched a single video of his playthrough. I want to go in fresh.

There's nothing to "buy" about his playthrough length, though. It's not meant to be a definitive statement on the objective length of the game. It was just his experience with it. He clarified that he didn't go for collectibles or optional stuff. He also really enjoyed the game, so it seems unfair that some people are trying to paint him as a villain trying to sabotage Sony and RAD or some shit.

Absolutely. And to be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong to me with a 5 hour game in and of itself. It could very well score 10s and I don't think being only 5 hours long should disqualify it from high scores.

It's just for me as a person of limited money to spend on my hobby, I can't justify spending $60 on a game that is only 5 hours long. If reviews and gaf impressions are that it is a good short game, I will happily pick it up when it falls in price, and I can't wait.

Had this been a year ago, I would have jumped. But 2015 is far more loaded with games and there are a ton of experiences competing for my limited dollars. As such, The Order will have to wait if it is indeed that short, for me anyway.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

What about people who play only cinematic third person and first person big-budget shooters, who are generally satisfied with their length, but end up disappointed with the length of The Order? Again, this is hypothetical. I'm bothered by your attempt to draw lines in the sand and invalidate the opinions of anyone who may end up being disappointed by the game length.



Why would you have any idea what the length is going to be for "most people?" Where does this certainty come from? Furthermore, why do you care so much?

I think my personal issue would be if the game "felt" too short, not it's actual length, kinda like how I feel about Uncharted 3, where the ending and pacing were sorta all over the place IMO. If when I play the Order and it is in fact 5-6 hours but feels right, I wouldn't feel cheated. That's just me though, and I totally get if people wanna mathematically define a certain amount of hours of enjoyment from a game in terms of price.



Why do I care about what? And I'm certain because I have played what's been called similar games i.e Uncharted and am judging it off that. It would surprise me if it's that short is all I'm saying.

 

[Hahs]

This is how I feel and what I've been kinda stuck on in my head for this whole discussion. I don't understand people who watch entire playthroughs of things they haven't played yet.

Synonymous with the whole bathroom, wiping, and looking thing... some people just gotta see it.

 

[meanspartan]

Say what you want, but it's easier to read. Isn't it

Say what you want to
but it is easy to read
The Order is long.

FTFY

 

[Wensih]

Good thing RAD is making cutscenes seemless

That's the problem...

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Overall, I guess my point is hearing someone belong to a camp of "low difficult and lolstory" going through the game in 5 hours is an absolutely meaningless statistic to me, and probably should be for most.

And that's fine, my post was simply about whatever feels best for the player. If you're having fun spending 13 hours in a game that can be beat in 5, great. That's your experience, do whatever you want with it. I spent 20 hours with The Last of Us, some people say they beat it in 10. Nobody's right or wrong. I just find it weird to advise players how to pace themselves to experience a linear, fairly limited title like The Order.

And anyway, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. From what I've seen, I can't see "soaking in the experience" actually adding 4 hours in my case. Maybe 2. That would bring it to around 8 hours. Not a criminal playtime (Max Payne 2 is ~7 and one of my favorite shooters ever), but then again, my concerns with this game have never been with how long it's going to take. (although I generally like these games in the 10-15 hour range)

 

[EL CUCO]

This is the issue, I also don't want to watch it to see how he plays as I wanna go in fresh, but there is not a single doubt in my mind that for most people the game is gonna be 8-10.

The Forbes contributor that is reviewing the game said the Youtuber was rushing through it, and also said this..."I’ve written my own concerns about The Order: 1886 in the past—and I’ll have more to say about those soon in my review—but game length doesn’t make the list"

 

[Zeth]

I hope the guy who uploaded the playthrough isn't endlessly harassed and threatened, but this is the internet we're talking about. What a world.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I apologize

But has this been posted?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/02/16/the-order-1886-will-take-you-more-than-five-hours/

Yes. Completing 100% of a game by finding every collectible, reading every newspaper, listening to every audio, checking out every corner of the game world, and slowly panning the camera around like you're playing an E3 demo when checking out the skyboxes and vistas will increase your play time. That doesn't make beating the game in 5 hours without doing all of those things a speedrun or playing the game wrong. You might as well argue that other generally short games like COD have gotten a bad rap all these years because people didn't find all those laptops while playing through them.

 

[RandomSeed]

You writing a poem?

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I beat The Order in 45 minutes
And so will you

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm worried about game length
Guess I'll wait for a review

 

[John Bender]

What about people who play only cinematic third person and first person big-budget shooters, who are generally satisfied with their length, but end up disappointed with the length of The Order? Again, this is hypothetical. I'm bothered by your attempt to draw lines in the sand and invalidate the opinions of anyone who may end up being disappointed by the game length.

I simply can't understand how they could be disappointed.
What do they expect for this kind of game in this genre?
We have dozens of examples (like I've said, just look at Resident Evil, Silent Hill, God of War, even games like Zelda can be finished asap).
It's like me buying Dark Souls and saying: Damn, way too short. Already played 300+ of World of Warcraft and Dark Souls can be finished in around 20 hours. What a crappy RPG. I'm disappointed.
It makes absolutely no sense for me.

Say what you want to
but it is easy to read
The Order is long.

FTFY

You see? It's damn easy.
You proved my point ;D

 

[KingFire]

This is the issue, I also don't want to watch it to see how he plays as I wanna go in fresh, but there is not a single doubt in my mind that for most people the game is gonna be 8-10.

I did watch some parts and his play style is pretty normal. He died a few times, and he was not rushing. He was just playing it like someone who does not care about collectibles.

 

[DangerMouse]

Excatly!
I love these games.

This.

 

[arevin01]

Each The Order gets worse and worse, maybe by the time the OT and Review threads comes around, everybody is exhausted and we will finally have peace.

 

[pestul]

I hope the guy who uploaded the playthrough isn't endlessly harassed and threatened, but this is the internet we're talking about. What a world.

Imagine.. the guy gave a positive impression of the game and quite enjoyed it, yet it will likely cost RAD sales. Crazy world indeed.

 

[Nafai1123]

Why would you have any idea what the length is going to be for "most people?" Where does this certainty come from? Furthermore, why do you care so much?

The assumption can be ascertained by the average playthrough times of several people on GAF as well as reviewers, just as an assumption can be made by one playthrough time on Youtube, which is what you're doing.

 

[mjp2417]

I hope the guy who uploaded the playthrough isn't endlessly harassed and threatened, but this is the internet we're talking about. What a world.

Well, we're starting to see the same hostility and conspiracy theories usually reserved for review scores directed his/her way, so yeah...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I simply can't understand how they could be disappointed.
What do they expect for this kind of game in this genre?
We have dozens of examples (like I've said, just look at Resident Evil, Silent Hill, God of War, even games like Zelda can be finished asap).
It's like me buying Dark Souls and saying: Damn, way too short. Already played 300+ of World of Warcraft and Dark Souls can be finished in around 20 hours. What a crappy RPG. I'm disappointed.
It makes absolutely no sense for me.

No one would compare World of Warcraft to a Souls game. This is insane.

Also, you're talking about games that "can be" finished in short amounts of time (mostly achieved by skipping all of the cutscenes, which can't be done in The Order). The conversation is about a guy's first playthrough. It's not a speed run.

 

[OléGunner]

I wish they did I would certainly be better than their PR department.

If you want to talk about TLOU and MGS, that's your prerogative. I'm talking about RAD and what they have said thus far about Order:1886.

Yeah, maybe you would have done a better job as their PR rep.

But what I found hilarious is you proclaiming "cinematic" games must be put on Netflix with simple button presses. I think that's just bringing down The Order to such a low basic level of interactivity thats quite disingenuous.

Your entitled to your opinion though mate, fair enough.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I simply can't understand how they could be disappointed.
What do they expect for this kind of game in this genre?
We have dozens of examples (like I've said, just look at Resident Evil, Silent Hill, God of War, even games like Zelda can be finished asap).
It's like me buying Dark Souls and saying: Damn, way too short. Already played 300+ of World of Warcraft and Dark Souls can be finished in around 20 hours. What a crappy RPG. I'm disappointed.
It makes absolutely no sense for me.

What do they expect for this kind of game in this genre? A 10 hour playtime, apparently. The issue isn't that you can beat the game in 5.5 hours, it's that you can do it without even really trying to because the game is just that short.

Your hypothetical about Dark Souls and WoW is nonsensical. It's like the people complaining that The Order isn't as long as Fallout. It doesn't make sense to compare games to games from completely different genres. But there are plenty of games in this genre to compare The Order to, and it seems like it's noticeably shorter than most of the good ones.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Ground Zeroes doesn't seem like such a bad deal now, huh.

 

[meanspartan]

Yes. Completing 100% of a game by finding every collectible, reading every newspaper, listening to every audio, checking out every corner of the game world, and slowly panning the camera around like you're playing an E3 demo when checking out the skyboxes and vistas will increase your play time. That doesn't make beating the game in 5 hours without doing all of those things a speedrun or playing the game wrong. You might as well argue that other generally short games like COD have gotten a bad rap all these years because people didn't find all those laptops while playing through them.

If you don't look every man you shoot in the eye first, and imagine whether they have family back home and what series of decisions or needs led them to be here at this moment of destiny to have their life end by your hand, you are doing it wrong.

Stop rushing through the game casual.