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[RUMOR] Paul Thurrott: Xbox 720 is expensive: $500 or $300 for sub model, 5/21 Unveil

I find this interesting. People think that because the specs aren't the exact same or higher than the PS4's that it can't possibly be worth $500? Just what the heck do people really believe is going on here? Specs alone don't justify a price tag. Let's see what the hell the console is about, let's see what it can do, let's see what the games look like. Specs alone don't determine value. They never have. I'm as excited about the PS4 as anybody, but I don't somehow see it, at least certainly not based on specs alone, as somehow being more deserving of a potential $500 price tag. I understand that better specs get people more excited, but let's not lose our heads here. We don't know nearly enough about the next Xbox to suggest it wouldn't be worth $500. And if it turns out to possibly include a version of, or even a full blown Windows 8.1 aka Blue OS, then that would further increase its value in my eyes. The fact that it would also be a full on next gen console as well on top of this fact, with the strong games lineup it's expected to have, would make for one unbelievable value.

I don't know about anyone else, and I'm sure it has its fair share of hate, but I actually like Windows 8 a lot. Not perfect, but Blue looks like it's addressing some of the primary issues I wanted to see addressed.
 
I still think big ass PDF leaked last year is the best "confirmation" we have now to Microsoft's plans. So I'd expect a launch at 299 to maybe 399 at the most.

and full 360 BC

and hardware licensed out to TVs and other PCs and shit

and universal/easy to port windows 8 apps

and boxes with upgraded performance over the next 10 years
 

Subitai

Member
Unless there is some mindblowing game that makes this thing worth it, MS has done thrown the next generation to PS4. It is like they've been in some other universe where the PS3 was successful doing all this annoying stuff.

All I can think is they think they have some amazing new secret kinect property that is going to change everything like the Wii control and Wii Sports did.
 
You have much more faith in people then I do. I believe in poor uninformed parents who are bad at math and look at one system selling for 99$ with a sub fee and another for 500$ and the choice is a no brainer. The long term cost (so the sub fee amount) is irrelevant to these people because they are bad with money. That's 85% of America right there.

So by that logic 199$ would also work ok, because hey, "that's the cost of a cell phone."

Once the system is home it's the kids problem to make it work. ISP goes down, don't be ungrateful and complain to mom and dad, you're lucky you got a console at all.

Anyways too many people live paycheck to paycheck and are willing to make horrendous exchanges to have a little of something now rather then save the funds and be responsible.

The rest of the world isn't retarded though...
Living on credit is not something culturally ingrained in europe, doubt it is in japan either.
 

androvsky

Member
Unless there is some mindblowing game that makes this thing worth it, MS has done thrown the next generation to PS4. It is like they've been in some other universe where the PS3 was successful doing all this annoying stuff.

All I can think is they think they have some amazing new secret kinect property that is going to change everything like the Wii control and Wii Sports did.

Between a new Kinect and that full room projector they'll be selling people on the idea of a first generation holodeck. The reality will be more like a fancy disco ball to go with the dancing games, but they might be able to skate by on hype and impossible dreams for at least the launch.
 
MS better move the unveil date up a bit. Giving Sony 4 months of good publicity is not smart.

I think people are way off with their aim. The fact that Sony announced the PS4 first means absolutely nothing. Sony launching the PS4 a couple months before the next Xbox would have real meaning. Technically we are in a state of stagnation, even after the announcement of the PS4. Even with all the awesome tidbits we've seen from the PS4, I think everyone here can still sense that the floodgates haven't truly opened up yet.

Microsoft isn't somehow missing the boat. People are acting as if E3 has passed them by without their announcing anything, or as if they aren't secretly working with developers and publishers behind the scenes. The fact that Microsoft is so quiet doesn't give me more reason to doubt think they are in trouble. It makes me wonder just what the hell are they really up to that we may or may not know about? People believe we know everything that we need to know, that everything has already leaked. I really don't think that's the case.

You mean the one with the wrong internal components?

Most of it is actually lining up rather nicely. 32MB of ESRAM was listed in there also as an option to 32MB of EDRAM. The number of cores 6-8x ARM/X86 cores at 2GHZ. We don't know final clocks, but I don't see the clock speed as being a big deal. The GPU is different, but then why wouldn't that be for such an early document? They more or less mention 2 ARM/x86 cores for OS, and Durango is rumored to have 2 cores reserved for the OS. They also talk about having dedicated video/audio engines for decode and encode, which Durango appears to have. The Kinect stuff all lines up. Always on, low power mode is mentioned. They talk about delivering content to 3 screens, and we know Durango has 3 hardware display planes, which appear capable of that. And quite a bit more if I really dug into it. Backwards compatibility has risen due to Microsoft's apparent ability to launch a new 360 at $99. If they can release a new 360 for $99, no way in hell are they not making money on each of those $99 360s. In other words, they can likely put BC in the new Xbox if they want to.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
I think people are way off with their aim. The fact that Sony announced the PS4 first means absolutely nothing. Sony launching the PS4 a couple months before the next Xbox would have real meaning. Technically we are in a state of stagnation, even after the announcement of the PS4. Even with all the awesome tidbits we've seen from the PS4, I think everyone here can still sense that the floodgates haven't truly opened up yet.

Microsoft isn't somehow missing the boat. People are acting as if E3 has passed them by without their announcing anything, or as if they aren't secretly working with developers and publishers behind the scenes. The fact that Microsoft is so quiet doesn't give me more reason to doubt think they are in trouble. It makes me wonder just what the hell are they really up to that we may or may not know about? People believe we know everything that we need to know, that everything has already leaked. I really don't think that's the case.

I think they are still working out which power companies you will be allowed to purchase electricity from in order to power up the new Xbox.
 
I think they are still working out which power companies you will be allowed to purchase electricity from in order to power up the new Xbox.

If you're going to troll, please try to put some more effort into it. I was hoping it would be good, and usually it is. So, in other words, you let me down, but I'm letting you know right now that I'm not giving up on you.
 

Camp Lo

Banned
I can't wait till 6 months after the launch of that subscription box to see how many people renege and end up shooting themselves in the foot.
 

spannicus

Member
I can't wait till 6 months after the launch of that subscription box to see how many people renege and end up shooting themselves in the foot.

If you fall upon hard times and cant afford to pay the bill then shall we expect the Durango to lock up on you until you find a new job?

Durango= Sorry swe4tynutz4u you havent paid your xbox live bill, we see you do not have an internet connection, please power Durango down until you have made your payment.

Swe4tynutz4u= I just found a job at the local Mcdonalds and will be getting my first check in two weeks, I also will tether you from my boost mobile android phone.
 

Razgreez

Member
Most of it is actually lining up rather nicely. 32MB of ESRAM was listed in there also as an option to 32MB of EDRAM. The number of cores 6-8x ARM/X86 cores at 2GHZ. We don't know final clocks, but I don't see the clock speed as being a big deal. The GPU is different, but then why wouldn't that be for such an early document? They more or less mention 2 ARM/x86 cores for OS, and Durango is rumored to have 2 cores reserved for the OS. They also talk about having dedicated video/audio engines for decode and encode, which Durango appears to have. The Kinect stuff all lines up. Always on, low power mode is mentioned. They talk about delivering content to 3 screens, and we know Durango has 3 hardware display planes, which appear capable of that. And quite a bit more if I really dug into it. Backwards compatibility has risen due to Microsoft's apparent ability to launch a new 360 at $99. If they can release a new 360 for $99, no way in hell are they not making money on each of those $99 360s. In other words, they can likely put BC in the new Xbox if they want to.

Where did you buy those rose tinted glasses? There's optimism and then there's delusion
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
it would basically be a 2 year cell phone plan. With them subsidizing the cost of XBL and the hardware to get you in the door. Sorry should have been clear that the 20$ would just be for 2 years, then would drop to ten.

And 120 would be a nominal price increase to go with all the great content.

Also right now the "official price" is 8$ per month, so 2$ more shouldn't be a deal breaker for anyone. They'd still have the same back doors deals to get it lower as they did before. But they could market a 99$ console for just 10$ per month more! WOOOOOO!

As someone who has never paid more than 25$ for XBLG 120 would be an insane and laughable price increase.
 

ypo

Member
So I was wondering, why are people freaking out over potential $500-$600 consoles that you only need to buy once for an entire generation yet people seem to have no problem purchasing new iPads, iPhones, iWhatever, etc every year for the same price or more?

You speak way too highly of MS. You'll be lucky if you only have to re-buy the console twice.
 

Bsigg12

Member
That's a weird fetish.

It would be funny if for some reason Sony just completely misses the point and suddenly Xbox is the system of choice in the US and Europe by a wide margin. I'm not saying it'll happen, both consoles will sell roughly the sane amount as each other but less overall compared to this generation, it would just be entertaining to watch GAF meltdown over Sony.

If what seems to he the majority of GAF had their way, the Vita would be selling more than the iPhone, the PS4/Wii U would be the only way to play console games and Microsoft would be burning in hell. So its just fun to kick the nest from time to time
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Yep, and so people who aren't interested in Kinect are basically paying $100 bucks for nothing.
It fucking sucks. And it looks like Sony is doing the same thing (albeit probably a bit cheaper) with the PS4 and its bundled camera.
 

Zinthar

Member
I find this interesting. People think that because the specs aren't the exact same or higher than the PS4's that it can't possibly be worth $500? Just what the heck do people really believe is going on here? Specs alone don't justify a price tag. Let's see what the hell the console is about, let's see what it can do, let's see what the games look like. Specs alone don't determine value. They never have. I'm as excited about the PS4 as anybody, but I don't somehow see it, at least certainly not based on specs alone, as somehow being more deserving of a potential $500 price tag. I understand that better specs get people more excited, but let's not lose our heads here. We don't know nearly enough about the next Xbox to suggest it wouldn't be worth $500. And if it turns out to possibly include a version of, or even a full blown Windows 8.1 aka Blue OS, then that would further increase its value in my eyes. The fact that it would also be a full on next gen console as well on top of this fact, with the strong games lineup it's expected to have, would make for one unbelievable value.

I don't know about anyone else, and I'm sure it has its fair share of hate, but I actually like Windows 8 a lot. Not perfect, but Blue looks like it's addressing some of the primary issues I wanted to see addressed.

Of course they're not the sole determination in value, but here we have a case where the next Xbox will have roughly the same CPU power as the PS4, but almost exactly 2/3rd's the GPU power and less than half the memory throughput -- that's a huge difference compared to the near parity that exists between the 360 & PS3. Given that the PC-equivalent components for the system are all on the market already and cheap (or soon to be on the market and cheap), it's hard to imagine that the actual computing hardware could cost them more than $200. This isn't idle speculation -- the most similar GPU to the next Xbox retails for $130, and thus almost certainly costs under $100 to produce, and that's with GDDR5 memory on board, which is significantly more expensive than the DDR3 Durango will use. The Jaguar CPU will be much cheaper yet.

Even if the new Kinect units are initially quite costly, it's hard to see how Microsoft would let the BOM get above $300-350. It's certainly possible that Microsoft thinks they can abandon the razor blade economic model at the very start of this generation, but it's very risky. Unless there's some killer feature packed in with Durango, it's not the type of product that non-gamers will be buying in lieu of an iPad during the holidays. And the early adopters -- core gamers -- are going to notice and care about the difference in graphics vs. PS4. The people who drop $500 to be the first to have hardware want to show off the technical prowess of the system.

There's got to be something more to Durango if Microsoft thinks they can price at the same level as the PS4. You can command price points well beyond your tech specs if you have other factors in your favor, like Apple's brand name, reputation/build quality, and ecosystem that let them price iPad's above competitors. In the Microsoft vs. Sony battle, though, Microsoft has no massive advantage.

Microsoft was extremely competitive this generation because they were first to market, always cheaper up front vs. Sony, and maintained a major user experience and online experience advantage for most of the generation that all combined to make the 360 the default development platform for most games. They can't fall behind significantly in the install base race if they want to remain a competitive gaming ecosystem, and they can't price a glorified set-top box w/ a camera at 5x the price of an Apple TV to capture non-gamers.

Edit: Also, there's still something to be said for the razor blade model -- early adopters have massive software and accessory attach rates. Gaining a significantly larger share of those consumers pays back the lower initial price charged many times over. With the specs Durango is going to have (barring a major change from current dev kits), I really expected $299 -- low enough to win large market share vs. a more powerful PS4, which Sony had been rumored to be expected to price at $399 (which seems reasonable).
 
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