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FranXico
Member
Another September NPD thread, including software sales, was started in the meantime.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/september-2018-npd-spiderman-breaks-many-records.1467144/
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/september-2018-npd-spiderman-breaks-many-records.1467144/
prinz_valium
Member
He did not, but and item is an SKU.
He also clarified on the X and S segement as a whole.
Former is leading by $ and the latter by units.
bigedole
Member
Doesn't it make some sense that the X would sell better than the S for XBOX? The S is inferior in pretty much every way to the baseline PS4 for a similar price, whereas the X actually has value added over the PRO to give it some kind of value proposition. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would buy an S over a base PS4, but I definitely understand why someone would get the X even if they already have a Base/PRO PS4.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Price. Enthusiasts will get the X, but the S hovering around half the price or more with $200 deals, your average person will home in on.
flashfire926
Member
ZhugeEX said xbox turned a profit in 2017. Dunno about other years, but I heavily doubt they had negative net income. They wouldn't be investing this heavily into xbox if it was actively losing them money.
Toe-Knee
Member
Because not everyone has an E-peen that needs to be waved around
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Because subs and software sales, not because console sales.
iconmaster
Banned
Probably, sure. But that would still count as "the Xbox is profitable" in Microsoft's book. Making a bit of profit on the hardware is a good goal but I get the impression that's never been the bulk of the motivation for any console manufacturer.
FranXico
Member
That's exactly the business model of console manufacturers. Take a loss per box sold if need be, the profit comes through software and subscriptions.
iconmaster
Banned
I do really wish we had better insight into the Xbox' financial picture though. I'm just incredibly curious about Microsoft's strategy for it.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
For some. PS4 is profitable basically since launch. It's crazy that almost 5 years on the market PS4 dropped only 100$ in price officially and it is still selling really well, while Xbone has deals on monthly basis. Why buy nex Xbox at launch when you should just ask Phil Spencer to drop the price for 50$. At least temporary ( they did that for TitanFall, few months after Xbone launch )
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FranXico
Member
Indeed.
That's why I added "if need be". Of course they would rather start making a profit off the hardware sale straight away whenever the opportunity presents itself.
demigod
Member
There's already a deal going on soon, buy RDR2 with new xbox one and get $100 off. Basically every month the xbox one is on sale yet it still can't beat the PS4.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
VG chartz numbers of course.
PS3 was announcing their numbers after the 360 announced theirs for awhile, and when the 360 announced 80 million and then the PS3 followed after, Ps3 stopped announcing numbers. When the 360 announced 84 million, Sony still did not announce any numbers and yes people did ask them on social media and gave PR answers.
If PS3 passed the 360 we would know. According to many people the 360 had "no games" in 2013 and still was ahead by a bit. Where is Sony's final PS3 numbers? With all this PS4 confidence you'd think they may as well add salt to the wound? Still nothing?
Your IDC forecasts links are wrong and some think the passage happened at the 77 million range, that would imply the 360 caught up and passed the PS3 when the 80 million rounds came up at the end of 2013. making your rant about the 360 being dead with "no games" invalid to sales.
Vgchartz used to be blocked form being typed in on old Neogaf for a reason. it's not reliable. Your IGN link uses the same IDC nonsense. Your Tech radar link contradicts the OFFICIAL numbers posted by Xbox of 80 million at the end of 2013. Who put out that number weeks BEFORE Sony officially put out 80 million. So either Sony and Microsoft are lying or Tech Radar and the sources they use are inaccurate.
There is not one reliable source that clearly shows the PS3 was ahead. For awhile in some countries, including the US the 360 was the ONLY console on sale and the PS3 was gone.
The only thing that was semi-accurate was the first EEDAR charts that had the gap so small the margin of error was huge. The second EEDAR was a straight up estimate pulled from guesses because they had the PS4 and 3DS (it included current and last gen) much lower than official numbers with having the 3DS around 48 million by as of Apr 2016 which was way off. That was discussed on this very board.
No database will updates numbers until a reliable source comes. This is not fanboy wars this is fact.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Microsoft has announced the Xbox One was profitable many times and I see no reason to think that has changed recently given the S is likely didn't increase any costs, and the X is sold to be profitable to a niche.
You keep changing the goal posts. I said that the PS3 was a commercial failure. I did not compare what made who more "successful" you did that out of desperation for some reason.
Xbox became profitable in 2007 and kept making money unto till Kinect which further helped them make money. They recovered that loss quickly. Sony never did. The Original Xbox never did either.
Last year was apparently it's second worst year and only picked up at the end of it. However it's still over 45% up the year before that (rumored) so if so it's still a good place to be. Especially since the X is doing so well, it's a for profit system aimed at a niche but the niche seems to be wider than the PRO. But It makes sense if you're in the Xbox ecosystem, the X does things better and there are some good trade in deals.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Xbox brand, not Xbone console. Neither MS or Phil Spencer ever said that Xbone is profitable.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
First of all this is a strawman. Secondly, Microsoft had the console sold at profit from the start. It was also for profit after Kinect was removed. The only time you could consider the Xbox maybe unprofitable (but we don't know due to not having the numbers) was during the 2014 holiday so called "fire" sales. Since then I see nothing that would make the CONSOLE unprofitable in 2015 if it was in 2014. Nothing happened in 2016 to make the console unprofitable and the S replaced the original and is nothing more than a slimmer console. The X isn't sold at a loss, so where is the console unprofitably coming from?
ANIMAL1975
Member
Iu forgot Indystation 4 mate....KINGSTATION4
SUPERSTATION4
GANGSTASTATION4
GANGNAMSTATION4
GODSTATION4
SUPERSEXYSTATION4
HOTSTATION4
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Xbone is selling at loss based on MS reports and Microsoft didn't sold console at profit from the start. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...osoft-loses-400m-on-the-xbox-one-9659069.html
And btw. : https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-06-15-xbox-one-x-selling-at-a-loss
So, Xbox One is a colossal failure commercially, BIGGER than PS3. Like you said to me, fanboy wars crap.
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Iced Arcade
Member
Spider-man deserves that spot. finished the main story and all I have left is the hidden photo's
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Xbox One X by Microsofts own word is breaking even.
Also dishonesty doesn't get you anywhere. Your first link isn't about whether the console makes money it was about the money Microsoft launched in R&D and advertisng for the LAUNCH. Don't do this.
https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-squeezes-little-profit-out-of-each-xbox-one/
Also even if what you said was true, which it isn't, it still wouldn't be a bigger commercial failure. PS3 directly cost the company billions, they had to cut production, they had wiped out profits from PS3 and PS4. You refuse to acknowledge the facts. The only MASSIVE commercial failure was the original Xbox.
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Kagey K
Banned
Well according to that fake ass report in the other thread 360 is at 88.71 mil now. I personally wouldn't use any of the numbers in that report as a reference to anything, but according to them that's where it sits.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Based few last MS reports, hardware revenue ARE DOWN, although they are boosted because Xbox One X, but overall are down! That can't be profit in any way, isn't it?
Nice try defending Xbox ( like you said to me that i'm fanboy, WHAT ARE YOU THEN? ) FACT is Xbone is selling at loss. If Phil Spencer didn't answer that and based MS reports, THEN SURELY IS SELLING AT LOSS! Xbox One is a colossal failure, bigger than PS3. Why? Because PS3 at least after 4 years on market turned a profit on each console sold, while Xbone won't reach that till end of this gen :
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/playstation-3-finally-turning-a-profit-on-each-console-sold/
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
I have a hard time believing that the PS3 or 360 sold 8-9+ million consoles from the holiday 2013 till now. 2015 was brutal for both and was when the PS3 started discontinuing production first, than the 360 and 2016 was even worse. I doubt in 2017 both sold much more than 1 million, if that, and only because of retailer pricing in SOME areas of the globe. If either of them hit 90 million one of them would be saying something imo.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
I linked you a direct statement showing the Xbox was not sold at a loss at launch. You choose to dismiss it so now I am starting to believe you're trolling.
Also no, that's not how it works. Most of the PS3 losses were written off. PS3 never recovered the losses. PS3 started getting out of the red after 4 years. That doesn't mean the losses evaporated, the Xbox One could lose money till the end and still not lose anywhere near as much money. You are the only one being stubborn enough to deny the reality that the PS3 was a MASSIVE commercial failure that shook the whole organization. The Original box is the only Xbox that was a MASSIVE commercial failure as you put it. The 360 and One are not.
You even back-pedaled and changed it to "Xbox brand" then posting a link debunking your own claim while helping support mine. Congratulations? The console was sold for more than it was produced, via the link I gave you.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
It is selling AT LOSS since launch ( btw. did you read in your link that Xbox One was almost 30$ higher :
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2013/11/microsoft-selling-xbox-one-at-a-loss.html
And i didn't back-pedaled. Are you dumb? Xbox brand is up because subs and software sales, but Xbone is selling at loss since launch. And i said that few posts ago. Read, goddamit. I gave you 2 FACTS, yet, you won't accept it.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
I mean you keep trying but keep failing: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1320199 "Xbox more profit per consoles than PS4." You avoided the first one maybe you'll read this one?
Also you did back-pedal, and you still don't seem to understand what "massive" commercial failure means but you seem to be using it.
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Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
PlayStation 4. Back on top, while MS lays on the bed. Bravo.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
I didn't avoided because your link is referred to mine link. Yes, Xbone is selling at loss since launch. As long Phil Spencer
IHS technology analysis company
Cost accounting
One other major cost driver of the Xbox One compared to the PlayStation 4 is the optical drive. Microsoft uses a Blu-ray drive made by Lite-On, compared to what IHS believes to be an in-house, Sony-made device in the PlayStation 4. The Lite-On drive accounts for $32 of the Xbox One BOM
vs.
26$ in your NEW link.
You should try to find a new link where it says Xbone profit since launch is 200$. Keep trying!
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
My first link clearly said that it was profitable since launch and it's also has a thread on this very board.
My second link shows the Xbox One making more profit than the PS4, I noticed you didn't address that. So is the PS4 a "massive commercial failure" according to you?
Also glad to see you gave you on the PS3 thing. At least you figured that out hopefully.
But you should listen to that mod at the top of the page.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Not in NPD, but it did for most of it. Good turn around for Sony since the PS3.
LittleBusters
Banned
Wow such a colossal failure yet XBox was up 36% YOY. Can you imagine if XBox unit sales ever doubled? Sony & Nintendo would go out of business.
Wonkytonk
Member
If my Aunty had bollocks she’d be my Uncle.
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flashfire926
Member
and how does that change my point?
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Yes i did. I wrote : "You should try to find a new link where it says Xbone profit since launch is 200$" Yep, Xbone is selling at loss. Fact is, i gave you the latest link where Phil Spencer says it is selling at loss. Cheers!
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
The last link you posted doesn't even have Phils name on the page. You also back-pedaled from "loss from launch" to "recent" so that's two strikes against you. Also you ignore my link that showed the PS4 was had less profit "from launch" than the Xbox one, so does that mean PS4 is in your eyes also a "massive" commercial failure or are you going to admit you don't know what that means or are trolling?
Edit: In fact the last TWO links you posted don't even mention Phil on the page. Also you still haven't responded to mine, just evaded.
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Damn you're so blind. I gave you link yesterday. So, you didn't read. It has Phil's name on page : https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-06-15-xbox-one-x-selling-at-a-loss
I didn't back-pedaled. LOL. If Phil Spencer didn't confirmed till today that Xbone console is making profit, that means it is selling at loss SINCE LAUNCH. Nice spinning, twisting whatever it is. I didn't ignored your links. Anyway, your links are irrelevant.
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AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
You are quoting an estimate from 2013? Hopefully I'm missing something.
prinz_valium
Member
Microsoft doesn't sell anything at a loss anymore.
Those times are long over.
The worst they go is break even, like they did during the launch of Xbox One X.
Those times are long over.
The worst they go is break even, like they did during the launch of Xbox One X.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
They surely making money, like i said before, on subs and software. On consoles, surely not. Just look at those deals. It's dirt cheap. You can't make a profit with that kind of deals.
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prinz_valium
Member
Of course you can. That is marketing budget.
Sales and Marketing expenses.
And Microsoft does not pay hundred millions of dollars on exclusive marketing deals anymore and also cut down heavily on expensive TV advertising.
So there is plenty of room to spend money somewhere else.
And with anything it's obviously a mixed calculation. Businesses work just that way.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
You keep backpedalling.
First it was "from launch" then it was "Xbox One X' then you go back to Xbox "at launch" and now it's back to Xbox One X.
I also noticed you avoided my link about the Xbox one X that shows they were breaking even (that doesn't mean making profit)
Also again, "from launch" my other link showed that the Xbox One (not the X) made a higher profit margin than the PS4, so since you beleive that the Xbox One is a "massive" commercial failure does that mean you also think the PS4 is?
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
His initial claim was the Xbox One was a "massive" commercial failure like the PS3 because it didn't make money from launch which isn't true. The console. He then posted a link that showed an opinion that the Xbox One X was sold at a lost, which came out last year, and then kept referring back to that link for his "at launch" claims which doesn't make any sense.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
I'm not backpedalling. You can spin as much as you want.
Again i showed you with my link ( which are much more relevant than yours, because your links show much higher estimate price, which of course, suits you ) that Xbone is selling at loss since launch, and Phil Spencer just confirmed that too. "I don't want to get into all the numbers, but in aggregate you should think about the hardware part of the console business is not the money-making part of the business. The money-making part is in selling games" This also can be applied to base Xbone, not XboneX only. 4 and a half years ago, Kaz Hirai said that PS4 is profitable : https://www.polygon.com/2014/5/23/5744344/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony-ceo-says
So, where is the official statement from someone from Xbox that Xbox One console is profitable? Oh, nowhere. Cheers!
Thanks anyway.
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HeresJohnny
Member
I find it odd that many Xbox fans are finding it so absolutely difficult to believe that a $500 machine may have difficulty with market penetration, especially when we are about to change generations and most of the country doesn't have the necessary television to use said model for what it was designed for. The X is a niche, enthusiast's device; it's never going to post mainstream numbers IMO. The console market has never been able to sustain a machine that cost $500 or more -- the PS3 tried and failed, and so will the X at this price.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Just checked Gamestop.com to see how RDR 2 deal for Xbone is going. PS4 Pro RDR2 bundle is in Top 10 ( 7th actually ) on PS4 overall list, but XboneS/X is nowhere to be seen on Xbone overall list ( at least on the first page ). Of course, dedicated PS/Xbone console lists aren't relevant.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Indeed, and especially given this is the situation nearing the end of a generation, when typically the enthusiast market is somewhat saturated and price-point is a major factor in attracting latecomers. Not to mention that based on past precedent the next generation platforms seem likely to launch at a RRP equal or lower than what X is currently selling for.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Well, MS never intended the X to achieve huge market penetration. They knew a $500 console was a device for the enthusiast crowd. It's actually done very well for them (e.g., is responsible for the big y-o-y gains MS has been having this year).
I think one of X's main benefits is intangible. It has helped to reverse and boost the Xbox's reputation among the enthusiast community. It's clear that MS has produced the "best" console, from a technical standpoint. You see it reinforced repeatedly (most recently with RDR2). People talk about Xbox in a different way now, compared to a couple years ago, and the X is largely responsible for that. I think the boost in reputation will help MS going into next generation.
I think one of X's main benefits is intangible. It has helped to reverse and boost the Xbox's reputation among the enthusiast community. It's clear that MS has produced the "best" console, from a technical standpoint. You see it reinforced repeatedly (most recently with RDR2). People talk about Xbox in a different way now, compared to a couple years ago, and the X is largely responsible for that. I think the boost in reputation will help MS going into next generation.