VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
But if it is Adnan with the phone, he is with Jay, given the other calls around that are Jay's people. That would place them together around the time that Hae disappeared and when he says he was at school.
But if it is Adnan with the phone, he is with Jay, given the other calls around that are Jay's people. That would place them together around the time that Hae disappeared and when he says he was at school.
He was high.
I think it's noteworthy that Jim Trainum notes that it's unclear about what happens in the dark time of Jay's police interviews -- what's happening off the record. There's this chunk of comment in a court ruling on Adnan's appeal that I find especially troubling: "(MacGillivary) interviewed Jay a second time on March 15, 1999, and confronted Wilds with appelant's cell phone records. After he pointed out that Wilds' statement did not match the phone records, Wilds "remembered things a lot better."" Take it with whatever grain of salt you must, but Adnan's supporters will tell you it's the impetus behind a dramatic shift to match the prosecution's story.
Susan Simpson, a lawyer who clearly believes Adnan is innocent notes this striking change in Jay's story: that it shifts to conform with an error on their original plotting of the cell map, and then shifts back as the prosecution presumably realizes the error headed into the second trial. I refuse to make some of the same leaps she does (she firmly states that this is proof of coaching), but it certainly is curious: http://viewfromll2.com/2015/01/13/s...ached-to-fit-the-cellphone-records/#more-4764
I am firmly in the "I have no idea what happened" group. But while some of the cell evidence is certainly intriguing, I don't find it to be firm proof... and I think some of the questions surrounding its accuracy, whether Jay tailored his story to fit, and what other stories the same data could tell us (in another post, Simpson suggests only 6/22 pings of calls about which Jay testified match the phone's alleged location). None of these questions mean Adnan didn't do it, but they do make me wonder and, for me, render it pretty impossible to say that there isn't another explanation for what happened.
I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating every time I post: I don't have any emotional investment in Adnan... I'm not pulling for him because I don't know what happened -- in fact, I'd rather something emerge to prove his guilt because then it means by some ass-backwards good fortune, at least the right guy is in jail.
But how will you kill hitler? better men tried and failed (project valkyrie).Then obviously use the time machine to prevent the murder, kill Hitler, etc.
About what camp everyone is in and all that, let me phrase the question the way I sort of answered it in my first post: Does anyone believe Adnan's story entirely? He's innocent, entirely ignorant of the events on that day related to Hae and what those 3 premises mean as it pertains to Jay?
Like others have said, it's simply not enough to put Adnon behind bars. The only thing that i would point to from having listened to the podcast myself and say "well that's really suspect" was that Adnon was willing to plea bargain his way out of it all. If i knew i had nothing to do with Hae's death there is no way in a thousand years i'd ever go for a plea deal because fuck that, i didn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to that, regardless of how terrible prison life is, because i couldn't live with that hanging over my head.
In about 30% of DNA exoneration cases, innocent defendants made incriminating statements, delivered outright confessions or pled guilty.
I'm calling bull.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/False-Confessions.php
There's also a much higher rate of false confessions for minorities.
There's also a much higher rate of false confessions by teenagers (I can't say for certain how old Adnan was at the time of the murder...conflicting information there)
There's a TAL that discusses the topic of false confessions.
This American Life - Confessions
There's certainly more evidence to suggest why a person would provide a false confession in a plea deal than there is evidence to charge Adnan with murder.
I don't know what to believe regarding the case, but I'm sure it's much easier to say we wouldn't given a false confession when we're unlikely to have to make that deal in the first place. If lies are put together to put you in prison, sometimes your best defense is to lie about your guilt to mitigate the damage.
Adnan pretty much said he thought the same way as you before going through the system. Now he tells people coming in to just take the deal. I don't think it's something you can really speak on until you're in that situation. I honestly don't know if the shame of taking a deal is worse than being in jail until my final breath leaves my body.
That doesn't change the point that it's suspicious. You can come at me with all of that (i heard that TAL years ago, been listening to them for almost a decade now) but Adnan isn't uneducated or a simpleton and he has stood his ground for years in regards to the details related to his case.
This isn't a case of the state being abusive to him or attempting to coerce something from him that wasn't true; he wanted that plea deal, and he wanted it enough that he asked about it on more than one occasion.
You can argue that his lawyer was not handling his case well given the issues brought up about her dealings during that time and up until her death, sure, but personally I wouldn't ever EVER accept being falsely labelled a murderer. It would greatly shame me and my friends and loved ones, it would forever change how everyone i care for treated me, and it would be torturous to live the rest of my life with that terrible stigma associated with me. I'd rather live my life behind bars for the rest of my existence than accept that.
This is a case where the prosecution offered their key witness an attorney and a plea deal that kept him out of prison for allegedly aiding to hide a murder victim. Coercion isn't limited to an interrogation room. The act of being accused while the prosecution is giving a sweetheart deal to the person who's inconsistent (at best) testimony was the lynchpin for their case would be pretty good motivation for Adnan to look for a plea deal himself.
Now you're just regurgitating what you feel you would do in a situation you'll hopefully never find yourself in. You don't have to be a simpleton or be guilty to ask for a plea. Hell, the prosecution likely knew their case was shit. If Adnan was innoncent, all of Jay's testimony would be ridiculous to him. Do we know exactly what Adnan was considering when he asked Guitierrez about a plea? Perhaps, like Jay, he would plea to having some involvement while not actually pleading guilt for murder.
But how will you kill hitler? better men tried and failed (project valkyrie).
Firstly, Rabia said Adnan did not pled to anything and it's a clerical error:And how does that change what i said? Adnan approach the prosecution with a plea deal, not the other way around. If the prosecution thought they had a weak case (i still think they did but evidently they didn't) and they approached Adnan with a plea deal then that's a different situation entirely. Jay getting a deal was really suspect, sure, but that has 0 bearing on Adnan's choice to request one himself. He sought to plea deal his way out of this situation which was going to have him labeled a murderer for the rest of his life. Again, there's nothing on this earth that would get me to shake hands and sign a dotted line saying that i was some sort of killer when i knew that i wasn't. I guess Adnan is a different type of person who is more willing to do that.
If the prosecution was going to negotiate, it would've been to a lesser murder charge. Because otherwise, what, the prosecution would let 2 people plea their way out of murder and have 0 people culpable for Hae's death? How would that even make a lick of sense? And again, i don't think he should be in jail but there's no 2 ways about it, if he was interested in a plea deal he knew he was going to get a lesser murder charge because that's how that works and he was ok with that. How is that not somewhat suspicious, regardless of his reasoning for it?
Rabia said:It has to be a court error. There was no plea. Part of his post conviction appeal was that his attorney failed to bring him a plea deal the prosecution was offering (considered ineffective assistance). I'll have to check into that but I'm 99.9% positive he never plead to anything.
Ah, didn't think of that.With a time machine? It would be pretty easy as I wouldn't have to wait until he was in power and the war started.
but Adnan isn't uneducated
Semi-related, where did all the 'this American life' podcasts go? I can only see the most recent one in the apple podcast app
Their feed only posts the most recent episode, and replaces it each week. Back episodes are available through the This American Life app or website though.
Firstly, Rabia said Adnan did not pled to anything and it's a clerical error:
Also, If you were given a choice to sign a dotted line to say you murdered person X, with a chance to get out of prison in 10 years as opposed to plead not guilty, but a surefire chance of never getting out of prison, what will you do, especially if your lawyer tells you there is no other way? It's not that he killed Hae so he was requesting a plea bargain. It's because his case was mismanaged, and there was no way out for him. It was a resigned failure. Prosecution's case was solid, because of the way they presented facts and connected the dots, without looking at other facts and if Asia's testimony is true, they created dots to connect. Of course it was solid.
What i was getting at with that is that Adnan isn't a person with a low IQ that was being coerced or manipulated by the state and that this is a grand travesty. By all accounts, he was an intelligent teenager and had some understanding about the consequences of something like requesting a plea deal. And there's no plea deal the prosecution was going to agree to that didn't end with him taking some sort of murder charge, he knew that. I stated already why this, to me, is suspect. And, again, i do so with the acknowledgment that the state's case is flimsy and that there wasn't enough there to put him behind bars because there's plenty of reasonable doubt to go around. But that plea deal stuff sticks out like a sore thumb to me.Education: some high-school
There's just no way i'll take that because as i said earlier, i'd have to live with all of my family and friends now considering me a murderer. That's a different type of hell to live through and not something i would ever accept. How would i look my parents in the eyes knowing that they think i killed someone, that i was a murderer?
What i was getting at with that is that Adnan isn't a person with a low IQ that was being coerced or manipulated by the state and that this is a grand travesty. By all accounts, he was an intelligent teenager and had some understanding about the consequences of something like requesting a plea deal. And there's no plea deal the prosecution was going to agree to that didn't end with him taking some sort of murder charge, he knew that. I stated already why this, to me, is suspect. And, again, i do so with the acknowledgment that the state's case is flimsy and that there wasn't enough there to put him behind bars because there's plenty of reasonable doubt to go around. But that plea deal stuff sticks out like a sore thumb to me.
I don't think what i'm saying is completely unreasonable but i appreciate your understanding of my position.The plea deal is with the courts. It doesn't mean everyone will see you as actually being guilty.
I mean... I get what you're saying. But if wanting a plea automatically makes a person look guilty to everyone (including your parents) then why are there so many people in Adnan's family and social circle claiming that there's no way he's guilty? According to you, he was interested in a plea, right? By your logic Adnan screwed himself both ways - He didn't get a reduce sentence and he'll never be able to look upon his parents again. But that's not the case.
No need to let self righteousness get in the way of logic and reason.
From what I'm reading Adnan didn't ask for a plea deal. He asked about his options.
https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2ob30e/is_no_one_else_shocked_adnan_asked_for_a_plea_deal/
Freedom what are you doing?
I read Adnan I'd some uneducated idiot and I stopped reading.
1. Adnan was in high school.
2. Adnan was a teenager
3. False confessions aren't only for the uneducated.
4. The Adnan you hear on serial was not as smart as the Adnan in high school.
I don't even know what to say to that post. I literally rolled my eyes.
You are different from Adnan and everyone else...how old are you? Adnan was a highschool kid without any insight into the "real" world and wisdom. Imagine being in his shoes, or what decisions you would make at that age. He probably didn't even know that such a thing as a plea bargain existed, especially since his luck ended him up with possibly the most incompetent trial lawyer in US.I made a point earlier that the only thing i found truly suspicious about Adnan was the plea deal thing and made points about it. And yea, i know full well that the Adnan on serial is not the same one from the early 00s. Someone else brought up confessions, not even sure what that has to do with his plea deal. I was simply pointing out that he initiated that, that he sought it out more than once, and when he sought it out.
And like i said earlier, even Sarah sounded disappointed about him asking for it. I'm not saying that him asking for a plea deal = him being a murderer, i've said repeatedly that the state's case was flimsy at best and he shouldn't have been locked up due to that. Just that I, me, myself, this person who is typing, i couldn't live with being labeled a murderer regardless of the supposed benefits I would've gained from that compared to the possible consequences of not having that on me. I couldn't, and while Adnan makes some salient points about why he sought that out i still think it's not a good look regardless. The best he could've gotten from a plea deal is a reduced murder charge to something like manslaughter for example. Again, i couldn't live with that if i knew i had nothing to do with it.
TLDR: the plea deal sticks out as bad thing for Adnan, that's my opinion, sorry that some think it's dumb.
You are different from Adnan and everyone else...how old are you? Adnan was a highschool kid without any insight into the "real" world and wisdom. Imagine being in his shoes, or what decisions you would make at that age. He probably didn't even know that such a thing as a plea bargain existed, especially since his luck ended him up with possibly the most incompetent trial lawyer in US.
OK neogaf detectives, I just listened to the entire series on my drive back to Colorado, did this guy do it? His relationship with Jay seems surrounded in mystery... I don't understand Jays motives for lying or kiling Hay..
Not sure if it's been posted before but this is a pretty interesting blog from an attorney who's taken an interest in the case.
http://viewfromll2.com/category/serial-blogging-about-a-podcast/
Man, the only thing I hold against Adnan is that.. if he really is innocent and Jay is saying all this shit... then OBVIOUSLY Jay is the guy that did it... but Adnan just doesn't really seem to care, he's just like "Nope, I had nothing to do with it." . If he really had nothing to do with it, and he's hearing Jay say all this shit I would be OUTRAGED and telling everyone this dude is Framing me?? ... its pretty fucking sketchy. For this reason I'm pretty sure Adnan did it..
I made a point earlier that the only thing i found truly suspicious about Adnan was the plea deal thing and made points about it. And yea, i know full well that the Adnan on serial is not the same one from the early 00s. Someone else brought up confessions, not even sure what that has to do with his plea deal. I was simply pointing out that he initiated that, that he sought it out more than once, and when he sought it out.
And like i said earlier, even Sarah sounded disappointed about him asking for it. I'm not saying that him asking for a plea deal = him being a murderer, i've said repeatedly that the state's case was flimsy at best and he shouldn't have been locked up due to that. Just that I, me, myself, this person who is typing, i couldn't live with being labeled a murderer regardless of the supposed benefits I would've gained from that compared to the possible consequences of not having that on me. I couldn't, and while Adnan makes some salient points about why he sought that out i still think it's not a good look regardless. The best he could've gotten from a plea deal is a reduced murder charge to something like manslaughter for example. Again, i couldn't live with that if i knew i had nothing to do with it.
TLDR: the plea deal sticks out as bad thing for Adnan, that's my opinion, sorry that some think it's dumb.
Good. It means she has good taste. That SNL piece was terrible.Went to see Sarah Koenig speak at my college. She walked everyone through how she made and researched the episode about leakin park and answered some questions.
[*]She didn't like the SNL sketch about serial- There is no topic for Serial season 2 yet... and it won't be about Jerry Sandusky(was this a rumor?)
The rest was just about how being a female investigative journalist has been tough but worth it and some quips about the importance of fact-checking.
What? That SNL piece was dead on.
Went to see Sarah Koenig speak at my college. She walked everyone through how she made and researched the episode about leakin park and answered some questions.
[*]She didn't like the SNL sketch about serial
Why didn't she like the SNL sketch?
This is without question covered by probably everyone, but here:
1. I feel like the "Adnan has to be the unluckiest guy in the world" bit is really, really hard to dismiss. Without direct evidence, it's just too much for me to not think he did it.
Why didn't she like the SNL sketch?
I thought it was a more tasteful (albeit less funny) approach than the FunnyOrDie bit, so I presume that's the one she would prefer.
Which was the SNL one? Where people are pressing her for a final answer, or the Santa Claus one?
Santa Claus