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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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balladofwindfishes
Member
The HW version is literally ripped directly from OoT 3D, with an updated head.
Their proportions don't work right, and Sakurai has his little rule where vets can't be "downgraded" to alts, although with YL that might be a little different considered the odd relationship between Toon and Young Link.
Their proportions don't work right, and Sakurai has his little rule where vets can't be "downgraded" to alts, although with YL that might be a little different considered the odd relationship between Toon and Young Link.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I liked Link more before he got a nose surgery. Melee Link looks weird.
SenorArdilla
Member
How many times do I have to post this?
Though the rule that veterans can't be downgraded to costumes would still get in the way, you're right. The argument that Toon Link essentially is Young Link might provide a workaround, but it's equally plausible that Sakurai would view them as separate characters with separate groups of fans - if he didn't want to make Dr. Mario a costume, I'm not sure what chance Young Link has.
#bringbackthebeak
Actually, I miss Young Link's original face more - his smaller, rounder eyes and thinner, curved mouth looked more unique than the proportions of the (admittedly more faithful to the original art) 3D/Melee model.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
#The90s
balladofwindfishes
Member
I wonder what the hit/hurt boxes look like on that Young Link skin, since TL's head is huge and his legs are tiny.
It seems like if the animations work right, the hit/hurt boxes would be way off.
It seems like if the animations work right, the hit/hurt boxes would be way off.
Dr. Buni
Member
I miss Young Link ;_; He is so adorable. If he can't be an alt, then they should release him as a separate fighter. If we can have two Marth clones, we can have two Link clones too.
How upset would people be if young link returned like Roy did? Similar but just different enough in moves.
Fire arrow that moves faster, boomerang can cause lots of knock back, hero spin shorter with an easier sweet spot, bomb lasts longer and explodes on contact. Same speed as toon link, but feels faster in motion.
Final smash is fierce diety. I'd be ok with this...
Fire arrow that moves faster, boomerang can cause lots of knock back, hero spin shorter with an easier sweet spot, bomb lasts longer and explodes on contact. Same speed as toon link, but feels faster in motion.
Final smash is fierce diety. I'd be ok with this...
I mean, I'm sticking with Ridley, but yeah. Fans who wanted villains in the game Bull Moose'd themselves between Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool, Wart, etc. I think a large part of this K. Rool support is just these players banding together to at least get one villainous DLC newcomer, and between Sakurai openly stating that he couldn't make Ridley fit his "vision" and Dark Samus being an Assist Trophy, as well as K. Rool fans still being bitter about Tropical Freeze, I think everyone nonverbally agreed that K. Rool was the best villain with the strongest chance to get in.
I also think the Mii Costume was just to tide fans over. The team may have had some ideas about who'd win the Ballot going into it, and fans didn't get loud about K. Rool until April. Whereas work may have started on the veterans like Roy and Wolf, and maybe newcomers like the Inklings or Isaac (He is suspiciously missing from the AT roster), K. Roolmania may have blind-sided them. Maybe the costume was their way of throwing K. Rool fans a bone because he'll be one of the later DLC characters (While still turning them a profit, of course)? Granted, this is coming from a guy that's still voting for Ridley, so maybe I'm just desperate. I really hope they see a demand for villainous characters in Smash Bros., at least. We only had, like, 3 at launch. Maybe 7 if you're pushing it, but that's including Dedede and Duck Hunt.
Yeah; the game was awful, but at least the design for the younger Samus wasn't bad.
TheDinoman
Member
You know, I tend to see people always complain about why there's no new Zelda character. To me, the issue is that there aren't really that many characters from it that are appropriate for Smash.
When it comes to including side characters, I think it's safe to say they can't just be some one-off. Bowser, Peach, Bowser Jr., Rosalina, Diddy Kong, Falco, Palutena, Zelda, Ganondorf, these characters have made multiple and meaningful appearances within their series. Meanwhile, side characters that have only made one major appearance in their series, such as the supporting characters for Earthbound and Mother 3, most Kid Icarus Uprising characters, and of course, many of the one-off Zelda characters such as Midna or Ghirahim (yes, I know they're in HW...), tend to get sidelined and don't make it to playable status. The best they receive is an assist trophy. This is ultimately because, well, they don't really mean that much for their series as a whole.
The Legend of Zelda series is strange because, other than sharing Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) each game, nearly every game features a different setting, different characters, etc. As such, I don't think the series has enough consistently important characters besides the Tri-force bearers. The only two I can pin it down to is Impa and Pig Ganon...
And honestly, I don't find either choice really appealing. Impa reminds me of Toad in that, yes, she's kind of important, but does she really warrant a spot in Smash? Outside of Hyrule Warriors (a outsourced spinoff), she's an NPC protector of another NPC, and not to mention we already have Sheik as our playable Sheikah. Would Ganon even work as a small playable character without looking silly?
Well, there's also Tingle, but honestly if he were to be playable I'd rather him just be a representative of his own line of games, like how Wario and Yoshi do. In the Zelda series, he's just a minor if somewhat reoccuring NPC, but in his own games, he's the main star and playable character, so I'd rather have him just be a "Tingle rep" if you know what I'm saying. But at that point, he wouldn't be a "Zelda newcomer" now, would he? Unless you think Diddy and Wario were Brawl's Mario newcomers, or something...
When it comes to including side characters, I think it's safe to say they can't just be some one-off. Bowser, Peach, Bowser Jr., Rosalina, Diddy Kong, Falco, Palutena, Zelda, Ganondorf, these characters have made multiple and meaningful appearances within their series. Meanwhile, side characters that have only made one major appearance in their series, such as the supporting characters for Earthbound and Mother 3, most Kid Icarus Uprising characters, and of course, many of the one-off Zelda characters such as Midna or Ghirahim (yes, I know they're in HW...), tend to get sidelined and don't make it to playable status. The best they receive is an assist trophy. This is ultimately because, well, they don't really mean that much for their series as a whole.
Okay yes, Dark Pit's a one-off, but he just got in mainly because he was an easy to add clone. I doubt Sakurai would of been willing to put in a character that'd require more effort like Hades
The Legend of Zelda series is strange because, other than sharing Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) each game, nearly every game features a different setting, different characters, etc. As such, I don't think the series has enough consistently important characters besides the Tri-force bearers. The only two I can pin it down to is Impa and Pig Ganon...
And honestly, I don't find either choice really appealing. Impa reminds me of Toad in that, yes, she's kind of important, but does she really warrant a spot in Smash? Outside of Hyrule Warriors (a outsourced spinoff), she's an NPC protector of another NPC, and not to mention we already have Sheik as our playable Sheikah. Would Ganon even work as a small playable character without looking silly?
Well, there's also Tingle, but honestly if he were to be playable I'd rather him just be a representative of his own line of games, like how Wario and Yoshi do. In the Zelda series, he's just a minor if somewhat reoccuring NPC, but in his own games, he's the main star and playable character, so I'd rather have him just be a "Tingle rep" if you know what I'm saying. But at that point, he wouldn't be a "Zelda newcomer" now, would he? Unless you think Diddy and Wario were Brawl's Mario newcomers, or something...
I like Winder Waker, but I'd actually prefer Young Link instead of Toon Link.
Didn't Sakurai originally plan to bring Dr Mario as a costume for Mario? Ultimately he changed it, but the fact that he initially recreated Dr Mario for this purpose debunks this rule.
That said, I agree about the whole dimensions thing, however not all the Koopalings are the same dimensions...some waymore so then the that of Toon Link and Young Link. Still, I highly doubt we will get a costume, or ever have Young Link and Toon Link on the same roster.
Dr. Buni
Member
First, people supported Wart? As in Super Mario Bros. 2 Wart? Second, Jill (Drill Dozer), Ray MK III, Mr. Resetti and Helirin are also missing from the AT roster, though admittedly none of them are nowhere near as popular/likely to be added to the playable roster as Isaac supposedly is.
Lastly, Duck Hunt as a villain is stretching it, specially considering 33% of the character is the duck who is the victim of the villainy of the hunter and the dog. I don't count Dedede as a villain either, but he kinda was a villain in the first Kirby game, at least.
Small?
balladofwindfishes
Member
The Doctor Mario thing is why we think he has this rule. His specific reasoning for not keeping Doc as an alt was that he didn't want fans to feel he was downgraded.
Melee actually tried to pass this off. It claimed Young Link was the Link from the older games. Toon Link continues this trend with two of his alts.
Anyway, if they were going to make YL a TL alt, they'd just clone TL and give him Fire Arrows and smaller blast, slightly more powerful bombs, and call it a day. There'd be no reason to do 90% of the work of a character and then sell him as an alt, when a clone would be fine.
But I doubt that happens. YL doesn't offer anything TL doesn't have other than a different appearance, slightly different hurt boxes, and a far better taunt.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why not Impa
The mii costume wasn't made overnight. All the costumes were released in waves, alongside each major update, showing they weren't just slapped together. They even have themes, such as "fighting game characters" or as I posted earlier, K Rool's costume is labeled as part of the "retro" theme, alongside Flying Man. The costume was released halfway through the ballot, and theres no way it could be a "consolation prize" this early on. Sakurai was hard at work on Lucas/Ryu/Roy the first few months of the ballot, so its silly to think Sakurai took one look at the early results, and got to work, immediately handing out "consolation prizes" to those he didn't want. The timing just doesn't work.
It would be completely different however if the costume came out several months after the ballot. People seem to think the ballot winners will be released very close to the end of the ballot. I say this is unrealistic, since we've already had several other major patches that shows Sakurai is hard at work on other things. We probably won't see the ballot winners until early spring into e3 next year.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm 99% sure the ballot top placers haven't changed since 2 weeks after it came out.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also does Nintendo own Kuru Kuru Kururin?
Red Arremer
Member
Uh... you're aware Doctor Mario was initially planned to be an alt of Mario in Smash 4, yes? All 3 of the last minute clones were (and Alph would've been but they didn't have time to implement Rock Pikmin).
GustyGardner
Member
Found this image! Really neat seeing your favorite reps on there
Zant is the best thing in this image.
Must have been way before E3 2013 because I see two Ness' and no Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, etc.Found this image! Really neat seeing your favorite reps on there
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Found this image! Really neat seeing your favorite reps on there
no Wolf 0/10
Slighty left and up from Mario
Red Arremer
Member
I imagine that second "Ness" is Ninten.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Eh all right. Not using superior Smash design 7/10
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yes
And why did Sakurai say he didn't make Doctor Mario a skin?
Because he doesn't believe vets should be skins.
It doesn't matter what was planned. He ultimately decided he was against making vets into alts. He's gone into detail about Doctor Mario.
It had an Assist Trophy in Brawl and a trophy in Melee.
I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I've definitely only ever heard the other explanation: he was too different from regular Mario, so they had to make him a separate fighter.
So I think it's understandable for people to be confused.
I can vouch for him. I remember seeing the exact same interview.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Why wouldn't that same criteria affect any other fighter?
Young Link is the only one you could argue has no notable gameplay differences from Toon Link, and could therefore just be an alt, but other than that, the same reasoning that made Doc a clone in Smash 4 can be applied to every other vet.
But besides that, I still don't think Sakurai would even make Young Link an alt because there'd be no point because he could just add a Toon Link clone with Fire Arrows. Maybe make him slightly heavier, but with slightly less speed, more in line with Melee's version. Or clone Link's dash attack if they're feeling really adventurous.
Young Link is the only one you could argue has no notable gameplay differences from Toon Link, and could therefore just be an alt, but other than that, the same reasoning that made Doc a clone in Smash 4 can be applied to every other vet.
But besides that, I still don't think Sakurai would even make Young Link an alt because there'd be no point because he could just add a Toon Link clone with Fire Arrows. Maybe make him slightly heavier, but with slightly less speed, more in line with Melee's version. Or clone Link's dash attack if they're feeling really adventurous.
MrSaturn99
Member
Well, considering how many Marths are in the game, I don't see a problem with Young Link lol
The only problem I see with him being DLC is, would it sell? Thats a pretty important thing, considering how long it takes to develop each character
Lucas and Roy were requested everywhere, and Mewtwo/Ryu have unique movesets. But would a not very requested clone character be worth creating?
The only problem I see with him being DLC is, would it sell? Thats a pretty important thing, considering how long it takes to develop each character
Lucas and Roy were requested everywhere, and Mewtwo/Ryu have unique movesets. But would a not very requested clone character be worth creating?
What if they give him a new moveset? lol
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
They should call the Links by what incarnation they are to avoid confusion. Link of Time. Link of Wind. Link of Trains,
Link of Crossdressing for Smash go go go
Are you asking me? I mean, I wish Pichu was in the game. He's one of my favorite characters to play as.
I think you're asking this to the wrong person, because I'll never vote against another character, even if I hate them (cough k rool cough or no wait (cough bowser jr cough)).
balladofwindfishes
Member
There are three Marths and three Marios.
But Roy and Lucina and Luigi and Doc don't play similar at all. Toon Link and Young Link have the same "niche," the same hit sounds, the same idle animations, wall jump, up special, and even their damage values are similar. By all accounts, other than name and appearance, they are the same character.
That's, I think, the difference with Young Link versus Roy and Doc.
I really wouldn't mind Young Link at all. The Hero of Time is my favorite Link and is the most badass of all the Links. But he's the only vet where I don't outright want him to return. Partly because in my mind he wasn't even ever cut. In my house, Toon and Young Link are used interchangeably. I'll use Toon Link in Melee and Young Link in Smash 4 in conversation and people know what character I'm talking about. It's just generally accepted they're the same character.
In pipe dream land, if they were gonna add a new Link, I'd want it to be this dude...
EDIT: Haha, looking at that image, with Link carrying all that shit on his back, now I want the mask salesman from Majora's Mask, and he either uses the masks himself as a buff or throws them at people as a debuff. It'd have to be a very strange character, though.
EDIT: Haha, looking at that image, with Link carrying all that shit on his back, now I want the mask salesman from Majora's Mask, and he either uses the masks himself as a buff or throws them at people as a debuff. It'd have to be a very strange character, though.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Nintendo's PAX Prime lineup
- A bunch of games not out yet
- Future Splatoon Update
- Smash Bros
Ok...
Still thinking September 13th is the next DLC. One year anniversary. Maybe even earlier, although the 13th is a Sunday, so that works.
But yea, it might just be because everyone loves playing Smash at conventions, but given the other games and the Splatoon DLC... seems interesting.
Or announce it Friday at PAX and release on Sunday, that would work too. Or announce it at PAX Friday and then release it right after, would be best.
- A bunch of games not out yet
- Future Splatoon Update
- Smash Bros
Ok...
Still thinking September 13th is the next DLC. One year anniversary. Maybe even earlier, although the 13th is a Sunday, so that works.
But yea, it might just be because everyone loves playing Smash at conventions, but given the other games and the Splatoon DLC... seems interesting.
Or announce it Friday at PAX and release on Sunday, that would work too. Or announce it at PAX Friday and then release it right after, would be best.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Mushroom Kingdom I from Melee would be a decent DLC stage to celebrate.
I have a hunch Mushroom Kingdom I's music was cut from Peach's Castle's anyway, this would line up with it.
I have a hunch Mushroom Kingdom I's music was cut from Peach's Castle's anyway, this would line up with it.
That's one way to fix the stage builder.
Geminosity
Member
It's quite impressive how they managed to fit so many characters on there without managing to accidentally include a single of my favourite repsFound this image! Really neat seeing your favorite reps on there
I mean, I know my favourites aren't the usual 'popular' ones but wow XDe.g. all those pokemon but no Mawile, Liligant, Meloetta, Diancie, etc. Palutena but no Viridi. Mona (who's ok but she's had more jobs than K Rool's had costumes
) but no Ashley. No Lip. No inklings. No Midna. The list goes on Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of characters in there I like and I'd play or already do play (e.g. Dixie, Zelda, Palutena, Bub and Bob, Chikorita, Mona, etc), but none I love :3
Palutena I do like a lot but she's kind of dropped in my view after smash re-interpreted her as being more serene. She lacks the wit and playfulness that I felt made her so likeable in Uprising and instead comes across as more 'srs bzns' or 'generic goddess'. I was kind of hoping she'd be more like the female captain falcon to some degree
Her smash interpretation's only saving grace in my eyes is the laughing taunt because it's at least mocking compared to the other two which are super bland.edit: ooh wait. No. I see Lip, Midna AND Navi. Picture redeemed XD
It's quite impressive how they managed to fit so many characters on there without managing to accidentally include a single of my favourite reps
e.g. all those pokemon but no Mawile, Liligant, Meloetta, Diancie, etc. Palutena but no Viridi. Mona (who's ok but she's had more jobs than K Rool's had costumes
Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of characters in there I like and I'd play or already do play (e.g. Dixie, Zelda, Palutena, Bub and Bob, Chikorita, Mona, etc), but none I love :3
Palutena I do like a lot but she's kind of dropped in my view after smash re-interpreted her as being more serene. She lacks the wit and playfulness that I felt made her so likeable in Uprising and instead comes across as more 'srs bzns' or 'generic goddess'. I was kind of hoping she'd be more like the female captain falcon to some degree
I found midna there
Geminosity
Member
Yeah, I figured I should have put in a thing saying "there's so many i might've missed some" but after the post I did a THIRD scan and noticed a few that hadn't popped out on the first two looks XDI found midna there
It's kind of like Magic eye in that if you keep looking at it you sometimes see stuff you didn't the last few times
edit: just realised Midna is riding Wolf from starfox. What they did there? I SEE IT
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