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[BattleMonkey]

I thought that their primary goal of sealing off the warp included killing everything that can touch it?

They want to seal the warp to basically claim victory. Without access to the warp, most of the races become powerless or lose many of their capabilities such as long distance travel and communication. Threats of the warp also would no longer be an issue to them, and they can then conquer and enslave the universe. The Necrons want/need life energy, it powers them but as of now they are a bit out gunned and out numbered.

The Necrons do not engage in battle unless it is for advancing their goals, otherwise random killing and battles that the other races take part in has no lure to them, they rather preserve as much life as possible as to save it up for their C'tan buffet to come once they achieve their conquest. The Necrons could do much damage to the 40k universe if they wanted to, but that does nothing for them really, they are pretty focused on their task and will often disappear and retreat in the face of the enemy if they have nothing to gain from said battle.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Well this thread blows. I guess there's not much more to argue about.

Mama's Robotnik... pick a more challenging and engaging versus next time.

Eleven pages isn't enough for a versus thread now? Oh okay then.

I think this is an interesting versus because of the strengths of each side, and think each side has a chance. Its certainly not a walk in the park for anyone. A few points:

There are 460 planets in the known Star Wars Universe...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_planets

If each one makes 3 million clone troops in a single year, that would mean that they would have...

1,380,000,000

Over a billion troops at their disposal. This doesn't include any droid manufacturing that they could do, all of which could just be Droidikas.

Numbers way, way, way, way, wat, way wrong. Here's a quote from the canon Dark Empire Issue 3:

Leia: "It's true, Han. The Force is bringing me closer to Luke ... even though he's light years away ... he's in terrible trouble, Han. The dark side is swallowing him whole! We've got to find him!"
Han: "Sure, why not? There's only twelve million inhabited star systems out there ... it shouldn't be too hard."

Assuming a total war setting in which each system is producing 3 million clone troopers a year (as per your comment):

3,000,000 x 12,000,000 = 36,000,000,000,000 clone troopers a year.

(That's a little bit more than the unfounded 1,380,000,000 some people were throwing about the thread earlier).

If each system is mass-producing millions of droids a year too (again, remember in the OP that Palpatine's absolute goal, above-all-else, is The Golden Throne, he will use every resource to achieve this), this could take the number of troops to 100,000,000,000,000 per year. Now its starting to look comparable to 40K.

Now, going back to my planet-killing starvation strategy.

I think they would see such a huge event. Not specifics, but they would probably know some big shit was about to go down.

An event on the magnitude of a sun being destroyed (with accompanying solar system and billions of lives lost) would absolutely be seen.

Lets assume we have the four planet killers in operation: Death Star; Death Star II: Eclipse and the Sun Crusher. Following a scouting mission to get an Imperium starmap and identify Holy Terra's farmworlds (which are, I assume, in travelling distance of Terra), they would have a list of targets. Would such information by classified?

Hyperspace is much faster than Warp travel. Say the four superweapons targeted a solar system each every four hours. Say that four hours is estimated travelling time, firing, and jumping back out.

That's eighteen farmworlds and six solar systems destroyed each day. That's 168 farmworlds a week, and 672 a month. How many farmworlds is Holy Terra dependent on?

How much of this will the Psykers foresee? Can they identify the absolute order of planetary destruction, the trajectory in which the superweapon will exit Hyperspace into a system, fire, and be back in Hyperspace ASAP?

This strategy is a guess (though almost certainly not as smart) as to how Grand Admiral Thrawn could respond to this war situation. Yes he wasn't a fan of superweapons, but in this scenario (to achieve the Emperor's goal at any cost) he would choose to use the Empire's strengths (quick mass planetary extermination) over combatting the Imperium on their own strengths (insane capability for ground-based combat).

For the Galactic Empire to win this, they need to be using the considerable ship-building capabilities of 12-million effectively enslaved worlds, their superior targeting and speed capability, and their unique superweapons. If the GE has superiority in space, they've won most of the battle.

As per my proposed idea, if Holy Terra is deprived of food and its troopers starved to death, then its simply a case of wearing down the land-defenses of the more specialist units (Space Marines, Terminators, etc), millions of billions of troopers will die doing this, but with no external resources to support them, it will be a solitary Holy Terra versus every resource of the SW Galaxy. I assume the latter would win.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

I really don't think there is any universe that's really fucking with Warhammer 40K to be honest.

The Daleks would rock their world.

Seriously, the Dalek Empire at the height of its power could one-shot galaxies (The Apocalypse Element), erase entire civilisations from history (as per the Last Great Time War) and create a superweapon that could wipe out all life and matter in every universe and dimension (The Z-neutrino "Reality" bomb). Their lowest soldier units can survive full-speed collisions with planets (episode "Dalek") and they can fucking fly.

No one's taking them on

Spoiler

unless they have a bow tie and a fez

.

 

[Salazar]

versus

Do me a favour, Star Wars boosters. This is a grisly mismatch.

 

[BattleMonkey]

There are supposed to be millions of planets in the SW universe. The wiki list is just a list of documented planets from various sources like the movies/books/comics/games.

Do me a favour, Star Wars boosters. This is a grisly mismatch.

Not really, it's basically the IG versus the Space Marines where the IG has massive amounts of more troops. But of course the problem is the Imperium has access to both, so the Empire is pretty much up shit creek.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

versus

Do me a favour, Star Wars boosters. This is a grisly mismatch.

Yeah that's not much of an argument is it?

SW ships are faster and have dramatically better targeting systems than their Imperium counterparts. SW planet killing superweapons are faster, more destructive and more numerous than their Imperium counterparts. SW has a unified enslaved galaxy of resources compared to the eternal resource and planet wars of the Imperium.

As I said, not much of an argument.

 

[Slayven]

When I was younger I use to go to miniature war gaming conventions. And the guys that had more then one titan per army usually were creepy as fuck.

 

[Salazar]

Yeah that's not much of an argument is it?

versus

 

[BattleMonkey]

I really doubt the Empire can enslave and turn the entire SW galaxy into a giant war machine. Even at it's height of power, the Empire did not control the entire SW galaxy as much of the outer rim territories were out of their control. Other factions also had claims to various planets and not under the Imperial rule. Most of the rebellious elements originated from oppressed worlds, while most of the core systems in the SW galaxy thrived under the Empire for long time. Suddenly the Emperor enslaving everyone to create a giant war effort, is likely going to backfire. The Empire was less lenient and still it fostered the Rebellion in the OT. The entire galaxy being oppressed by the Empire is going to just turn out bad for Palpy.

 

[Saiyar]

How much of this will the Psykers foresee? Can they identify the absolute order of planetary destruction, the trajectory in which the superweapon will exit Hyperspace into a system, fire, and be back in Hyperspace ASAP?

Tigurius of the Ultramarines was able to predict the arrival of an Ork Waagh so acurately that it was obliterated as it left warp.

 

[Meteorain]

I can't believe the idea that a numbers game against the Imperium is thought to be a viable tactic.

The sheer quantity of resources that the Imperium has in terms of producing IG units and agri-worlds and so and so forth is ridiculously massive. Taking out planets one at a time? Even if that was a viable method without eventually getting caught it would take so damn long to do so. I don't even see how blowing up every single planet in sigh would be beneficial at all.

On top of that, the Empire is going to have to map out the 40k Galaxy. They can't just Hyperspace around the place without knowing the layout or they will end up inside a sun or something. Now that in itself is a fairly long task, and even then not something that will have 100% yield.

The Space superiority thing is only in terms of ship to ship firepower and traversing in terms of FTL speeds. There is no clear indication of ship speed comparisons whilst translating through normal space. Yes, I concede the GE do have the upper hand, but it's not a ridiculous crushing defeat. If at any point a kill team get's onto a GE ship (ram-and-board or teleporting onto it) then that GE ship is lost. Not to mention it may be captured and it's technologies harnessed for the good of the Imperium (since I doubt this war would be a short one).

This also all depends on the idea that the GE survive the initial onslaught the Imperium will throw at them the moment they come out of the rift in 40k space. Without a doubt the Imperium will be aware of this massive new "Eye of Terror" like rip in space and send a shitload of military resources for the just in case scenario.

In reponse to the fact of forseeing events. It's not just normal Imperium Psykers (putting aside powerful one's like Tigurius himself), but the Emperor himself who forsees and helps things along. All it takes is for one encounter in which they predict the presence of the SW ships. The moment that happens, all manner of kill teams are going to be on those ships, and I am confident they will be overrun by Imperial forces.

The SW guys will give the Imperium a good fight, but they just won't win it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Tigurius of the Ultramarines was able to predict the arrival of an Ork Waagh so acurately that it was obliterated as it left warp.

Something that is pretty rare to happen, as is most psyker events as they are shown to often not be 100% with this kind of things.

Of course it also helps that psykers draw from the warp, and the waaagh channels the warp... while they travel in the warp...... lol

Not to mention it may be captured and it's technologies harnessed for the good of the Imperium (since I doubt this war would be a short one).

The Imperium doesn't do this. The Xenos Hunters would study the tech just to try and understand the enemy, but they do not adopt said technologies and anything is pretty much just locked up. The Imperium could be so much more advanced if technology was not treated as something dangerous and dark and protected with religious like zeal.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Star Wars loses simply for being outnumbered about 15 to 1.

 

[Meteorain]

Something that is pretty rare to happen, as is most psyker events as they are shown to often not be 100% with this kind of things.

Of course it also helps that psykers draw from the warp, and the waaagh channels the warp... while they travel in the warp...... lol

I suppose it depends on the Psyker in question. Tigurius is one of the most prominent Psykers out there. It is even suggested that he has been able to survive psychic contacts with the Hive Mind.

The Imperium doesn't do this. The Xenos Hunters would study the tech just to try and understand the enemy, but they do not adopt said technologies and anything is pretty much just locked up. The Imperium could be so much more advanced if technology was not treated as something dangerous and dark and protected with religious like zeal.

It's not about adopting the physical technology, but the physics of the technology if I can say that. In the same way they allow the Mechanicus on Mars to live they would take in these technologies.

Putting that aside, merely understanding their technology then would be a great benefit to countering it. This clearly works vice-versa, but the Imperials are more likely to suicide than give up.

 

[tenchir]

What about worlds that want to join up with the Empire instead of staying with the IoM? Or that the Empire can convince a significant number of worlds to join up with them? They have a lot of Jedi's that are good at changing peoples mind if you know what I mean.

 

[Saiyar]

What about worlds that want to join up with the Empire instead of staying with the IoM? Or that the Empire can convince a significant number of worlds to join up with them? They have a lot of Jedi's that are good at changing peoples mind if you know what I mean.

An Imerium world would be quite hard to convince but there are plenty of non Imperium human worlds in the 40k galaxy. Those planets might be convinced to work with the Empire.

 

[Meteorain]

What about worlds that want to join up with the Empire instead of staying with the IoM? Or that the Empire can convince a significant number of worlds to join up with them? They have a lot of Jedi's that are good at changing peoples mind if you know what I mean.

One thing to go "these are not the droids you are looking for" and it's another to changed the mind of people who are systematically indoctrinated from birth to worship their God-Emperor to which the entire purpose of their lives is to work and most likely die for him.

 

[Fafalada]

I think this is an interesting versus because of the strengths of each side, and think each side has a chance. Its certainly not a walk in the park for anyone

It kind of fits with the emperor's ego - the idea to throw all of their galaxy-resources into a fight for a chair in center of a galaxy that every other superpower wants to own or consume...

But that aside - how long does GE air-superiority last if one of their bigger ships (or worse, a deathstar) wanders out too close to Chaos-infested space (or an ork-system). Don't think GE has a history of fighting battles where enemy has almost limitless numbers to throw against them, even in space. Indeed Imperium's strategy would likely involve this too - use ground superiority to capture the enemy tech.
Any strategy of GE that doesn't involve actively avoiding conflict(hit and run is easy with hyperspace and superlasers indeed) until they've wore down the opposition through attrition or other means would be risky at best. And if WH races work out that gravity fields can be used to pull ships out of Hyperspace or prevent them from escaping, most of air-superiority would be lost.

 

[El Sloth]

*snip*

A great argument for The Empire's victory, but again there are two problems I see with your plan.

There are, I think, two major flaws to your entire strategy. The first being what JayDubya mentioned, the Empire would first need reliable and accurate navigational data of Imperium controlled space before being able to attempt the hit-and-run planet destroying tactics you mentioned.
The second being, how would the Empire know about the Imperium's ground superiority without first engaging in a land battle or two? I think it's feasible the Empire would try to subjugate some worlds before just saying 'eff it and just destroying them instead.

Also, I think you're underestimating how long the the Imperium's super soldiers can last without food.

 

[DrForester]

No one's taking them on

Spoiler

unless they have a bow tie and a fez

.

Or Spiral power

 

[way more]

What about worlds that want to join up with the Empire instead of staying with the IoM? Or that the Empire can convince a significant number of worlds to join up with them? They have a lot of Jedi's that are good at changing peoples mind if you know what I mean.

It seems like the Empire could flip plenty of worlds. Aren't most Impernium ruled worlds in constant, pointless revolution?

 

[Aegus]

The Empire is actually screwed for one simple reason. They don't have the resources to supply billions of troops a year with food and equipment especially in the hell zone that is the Imperium Universe. Nor do they seemingly have the fleet to get these troops into battle (The Death Star only held 250k people).

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Vaders elite got assfucked by Ewoks on the ground and dudes with fish faces in space.

The God-king of pimps marneus calgar got his title by fighting these things every tuesday.

 

[Pandaman]

Robotnik, the empire wouldn't even need to relly on those 4 planet busters to do the dirty work, star destroyers were perfectly capable of glassing planets in short timescales. that's how the got the name in the first place.

hell, at the least you could add the 20 odd super star destroyers the empire had or was building by the end of jedi.

 

[Aegus]

Robotnik, the empire wouldn't even need to relly on those 4 planet busters to do the dirty work, star destroyers were perfectly capable of glassing planets in short timescales. that's how the got the name in the first place.

hell, at the least you could add the 20 odd super star destroyers the empire had or was building by the end of jedi.

Except this scenario takes place directly after the first Death Star.

 

[Pandaman]

Except this scenario takes place directly after the first Death Star.

if we're counting 2 deathstars, why is it different for classical ships.

either way, that's 4 executor class super star destroyers before hoth.

 

[Aegus]

if we're counting 2 deathstars, why is it different for classical ships.

either way, that's 4 executor class super star destroyers before hoth.

I wasn't aware we were. Seemed to me that people were just assuming that the entire SW timeline would carry along the same lines even though they are now waging war against a foe that outmans, outguns and out voodoos them.

Anyways lets say this war lasts at least 25 years, the Empire would then the Yuuzhan Vong on their doorstep.

ergo Empire is fucked.

 

[El Sloth]

The Empire is actually screwed for one simple reason. They don't have the resources to supply billions of troops a year with food and equipment especially in the hell zone that is the Imperium Universe. Nor do they seemingly have the fleet to get these troops into battle (The Death Star only held 250k people).

I was under the impression Clone Troopers didn't need to eat?

 

[antonz]

I wasn't aware we were. Seemed to me that people were just assuming that the entire SW timeline would carry along the same lines even though they are now waging war against a foe that outmans, outguns and out voodoos them.

Anyways lets say this war lasts at least 25 years, the Empire would then the Yuuzhan Vong on their doorstep.

ergo Empire is fucked.

Not guaranteed. The Vong delibertly assisted the Rebellion with their Sleeper Agents in order to take out the Empire so they would not face resistance.

Palpatine would have been a formidable opponent to the Vong because casualties would not sway Palpatine like it did the Republic. That and with the failure of the Rebellion the Empire would have been building unhindered for years. Palpatine would not have been worried about using the Death Star to take out planets controlled by the vong.

 

[JayDubya]

I wasn't aware we were. Seemed to me that people were just assuming that the entire SW timeline would carry along the same lines even though they are now waging war against a foe that outmans, outguns and out voodoos them.

Anyways lets say this war lasts at least 25 years, the Empire would then the Yuuzhan Vong on their doorstep.

ergo Empire is fucked.

The Empire would have a much easier time building superweapons and SSDs and fleets and whatnot with the Rebellion completely quelled.

To note something else...

The GFFA is marginally larger than the Milky Way, and the Imperium does not control all of the Milky Way. In this scenario, the Empire has a LOT of resources available and does not have a credible hindrance to acquiring any of those resources.

Just as Games Workshop does not define every populated world in their setting, neither has Lucas et. al. defined all the worlds in his setting. There are a few representative ones and the deeper into the EU you go, the more you learn about different ones.

 

[Sir Hamish]

Eleven pages isn't enough for a versus thread now? Oh okay then.

I think this is an interesting versus because of the strengths of each side, and think each side has a chance. Its certainly not a walk in the park for anyone. A few points:



Numbers way, way, way, way, wat, way wrong. Here's a quote from the canon Dark Empire Issue 3:



Assuming a total war setting in which each system is producing 3 million clone troopers a year (as per your comment):

3,000,000 x 12,000,000 = 36,000,000,000,000 clone troopers a year.

(That's a little bit more than the unfounded 1,380,000,000 some people were throwing about the thread earlier).

If each system is mass-producing millions of droids a year too (again, remember in the OP that Palpatine's absolute goal, above-all-else, is The Golden Throne, he will use every resource to achieve this), this could take the number of troops to 100,000,000,000,000 per year. Now its starting to look comparable to 40K.

Now, going back to my planet-killing starvation strategy.





Lets assume we have the four planet killers in operation: Death Star; Death Star II: Eclipse and the Sun Crusher. Following a scouting mission to get an Imperium starmap and identify Holy Terra's farmworlds (which are, I assume, in travelling distance of Terra), they would have a list of targets. Would such information by classified?

Hyperspace is much faster than Warp travel. Say the four superweapons targeted a solar system each every four hours. Say that four hours is estimated travelling time, firing, and jumping back out.

That's eighteen farmworlds and six solar systems destroyed each day. That's 168 farmworlds a week, and 672 a month. How many farmworlds is Holy Terra dependent on?

How much of this will the Psykers foresee? Can they identify the absolute order of planetary destruction, the trajectory in which the superweapon will exit Hyperspace into a system, fire, and be back in Hyperspace ASAP?

This strategy is a guess (though almost certainly not as smart) as to how Grand Admiral Thrawn could respond to this war situation. Yes he wasn't a fan of superweapons, but in this scenario (to achieve the Emperor's goal at any cost) he would choose to use the Empire's strengths (quick mass planetary extermination) over combatting the Imperium on their own strengths (insane capability for ground-based combat).

For the Galactic Empire to win this, they need to be using the considerable ship-building capabilities of 12-million effectively enslaved worlds, their superior targeting and speed capability, and their unique superweapons. If the GE has superiority in space, they've won most of the battle.

As per my proposed idea, if Holy Terra is deprived of food and its troopers starved to death, then its simply a case of wearing down the land-defenses of the more specialist units (Space Marines, Terminators, etc), millions of billions of troopers will die doing this, but with no external resources to support them, it will be a solitary Holy Terra versus every resource of the SW Galaxy. I assume the latter would win.

This whole argument seems reliant on plot devices.

If a portal just opened one day, it would take the empire a very long time to have every single planet in the galaxy producing clone troopers. It could also bankrupt them, since building the executor apparently very nearly did that. It just seems impractical to turn the resources of an entire galaxy towards clone production.

It would also take forever and doesn't take into account what the IoM would be doing over that time. You need to compare hard facts rather than plot devices. Marines would slaughter stormtroopers, your doomsday weapons would get taken out by farmboys enlisted by the imperium and your ships would be obscenely outnumbered. SW looses

 

[demosthenes]

Not guaranteed. The Vong delibertly assisted the Rebellion with their Sleeper Agents in order to take out the Empire so they would not face resistance.

Palpatine would have been a formidable opponent to the Vong because casualties would not sway Palpatine like it did the Republic. That and with the failure of the Rebellion the Empire would have been building unhindered for years. Palpatine would not have been worried about using the Death Star to take out planets controlled by the vong.

Haven't read too much about EU, but I know of the Vong, what did they do to destabilize the empire in the EU?

 

[BattleMonkey]

I was under the impression Clone Troopers didn't need to eat?

They eat, but in the field they are given nutrition cubes that give them what they need.

Haven't read too much about EU, but I know of the Vong, what did they do to destabilize the empire in the EU?

Vong had agents many years ahead in the GFFA who were scouting the galaxy before the invasions arrival to help plan it. Some agents were involved in the background in a few matters but mostly it was in keeping the Empire down after it's defeat at Endor.

Nothing really for most of the war, they later on invaded what was left of the Imperial remnant, which was only a fraction of the power of the GE under palpy. This was about 25 years after the OT movies so the Empire was considered a minor power with only a few systems under it anymore. The Vong invaded but were repelled with the help of the Skywalkers and friends and the Empire eventually joins with the Republic to help fight the Vong from then on.

The Empire would have a much easier time building superweapons and SSDs and fleets and whatnot with the Rebellion completely quelled.

To note something else...

The GFFA is marginally larger than the Milky Way, and the Imperium does not control all of the Milky Way. In this scenario, the Empire has a LOT of resources available and does not have a credible hindrance to acquiring any of those resources.

Just as Games Workshop does not define every populated world in their setting, neither has Lucas et. al. defined all the worlds in his setting. There are a few representative ones and the deeper into the EU you go, the more you learn about different ones.

Even with the rebellion quelled, the GE did not control large parts of the galaxy. Majority of the outer rim planets were completely independent and controlled by various factions like the Hutts, Chiss, Black Sun, etc. You also had various systems that for different reasons had their own independence and had only a slight allegiance to the Empire, but not under their rule like the Hapans.

The suffering that would be inflected to the GFFA by palpy creating a warmachine to invade the 40k universe and such would just promote a new Rebellion, and likely a bigger one than before.

 

[antonz]

Haven't read too much about EU, but I know of the Vong, what did they do to destabilize the empire in the EU?

Palpatine knew of the Yuuzhan Vong through his force sight like 27 years before Yavin. Its actually partially why he ordered the outbound flight to be destroyed besides killing 18 Jedi so that the ship would not be captured by the Vong for research purposes.

Nom Amor was tasked with Destabilizing the Empire because it was viewed as too powerful to take on for control of the Galaxy. When the Empire fell he went to work making sure the New Empire was not allowed to be successful in reconquering the Galaxy.

Palpatine even used Extra Galactic Invasion as one of the reasons the Imperial Navy had to keep being built up. Its very likely that with access to a new Galaxy he would rally the Galaxy around this new "threat"

 

[Aegus]

I was under the impression Clone Troopers didn't need to eat?

You saw them eating food in AotC.

 

[CiSTM]

Is there any art books of WH40K ? I know the rule book has tons of art pieces but I really would like to buy just book that is filled with 40K art.

:O http://www.amazon.com/dp/1844162842/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Any new releases on this one ?

 

[Salazar]

Is there any art books of WH40K ? I know the rule book has tons of art pieces but I really would like to buy just book that is filled with 40K art.

http://www.amazon.com/Horus-Heresy-Collected-Visions/dp/1844164241/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1295171761&sr=8-9

Yo.

And just to drive home the badass supremacy of 40K,

Ignore the MULTI-PART PLASTIC KIT.

 

[CiSTM]

http://www.amazon.com/Horus-Heresy-Collected-Visions/dp/1844164241/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1295171761&sr=8-9

Yo.

And just to drive home the badass supremacy of 40K,

Ignore the MULTI-PART PLASTIC KIT.

http://i.imgur.com/QFkSg.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Thanks, mate. I owe you one ;)

Multi-part plastic kit brings some sad memories back :D I spent helluva lot cash on starter pack of WH40K and BF Gothic only to realise I have no artistic eye and everything I painted looked like shit.

 

[Meteorain]

http://www.amazon.com/Horus-Heresy-Collected-Visions/dp/1844164241/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1295171761&sr=8-9

Yo.

I got given that by a friend for my birthday a while back. Awesome book.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Palpatine knew of the Yuuzhan Vong through his force sight like 27 years before Yavin. Its actually partially why he ordered the outbound flight to be destroyed besides killing 18 Jedi so that the ship would not be captured by the Vong for research purposes.

Nom Amor was tasked with Destabilizing the Empire because it was viewed as too powerful to take on for control of the Galaxy. When the Empire fell he went to work making sure the New Empire was not allowed to be successful in reconquering the Galaxy.

Palpatine even used Extra Galactic Invasion as one of the reasons the Imperial Navy had to keep being built up. Its very likely that with access to a new Galaxy he would rally the Galaxy around this new "threat"

Nom Anor didn't reach the GFFA till after the Empire's fall, so the Empire was already mostly beaten by then, Anor just helped to ensure that the Empire would not rise again and that the New Republic would claim victory. Most of his involvement dealt with stopping Carnor Jax from taking power and the Moff Council at the time.

 

[JayDubya]

Even with the rebellion quelled, the GE did not control large parts of the galaxy. Majority of the outer rim planets were completely independent and controlled by various factions like the Hutts, Chiss, Black Sun, etc. You also had various systems that for different reasons had their own independence and had only a slight allegiance to the Empire, but not under their rule like the Hapans.

The suffering that would be inflected to the GFFA by palpy creating a warmachine to invade the 40k universe and such would just promote a new Rebellion, and likely a bigger one than before.

After what happened to Alderaan, and now in this scenario, Yavin IV, no, there would be no more rebellions. No chance. The Sith would rule the GFFA, utterly, with fear. No one would be alive to know of the Death Star's weakness, and now the Empire even knows what that weakness IS and can redesign (the Death Star II was being designed without that defect).

There would be civil war if Palpatine ever died without a clone to replace himself, which probably would happen sometime around never.

As Robotnik also pointed out, the amount of superweapons Palpatine had in the works was pretty staggering.

 

[∀ Narayan]

This thread is awesome, and is the only reason why I'm reading anything from Lexicanum. Warhammer 40,000 is pretty badass. Makes you wonder why we don't get cool games or well written novels for this series. Also, is it just me, or did Blizzard rip a lot from Warhammer in general?

 

[antonz]

The Empires biggest advantage would be technology and the ability to mass produce it.

Eclipse Class Star Destroyer began construction around the Time of the Battle of Yavin. Took forever to build due to the changing climate of the Galaxy but in a Peaceful Empire it would be completed rather fast.

The Empire would probably eliminate construction of the Executor class and focus on the Eclipse for the war putting a Superlaser in every commandship suddenly adds a whole new layer of technological supremacy.

 

[water_wendi]

This thread is awesome, and is the only reason why I'm reading anything from Lexicanum. Warhammer 40,000 is pretty badass. Makes you wonder why we don't get cool games or well written novels for this series. Also, is it just me, or did Blizzard rip a lot from Warhammer in general?

The ripped everything from Games Workshop except for the name of the Horde. That they ripped from He-Man.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

This thread is awesome, and is the only reason why I'm reading anything from Lexicanum. Warhammer 40,000 is pretty badass. Makes you wonder why we don't get cool games or well written novels for this series. Also, is it just me, or did Blizzard rip a lot from Warhammer in general?

I haven't read any of the books but the Dawn of War games are pretty good, you should check them out.

Also, is it just me, or did Blizzard rip a lot from Warhammer in general?

Apparently there's a bit of history between them, and it's no coincidence that some of Blizzard's stuff resembles GW's stuff. Someone else can probably fill you in on that though, as I'm not sure about the details (I've read rumours that GW backed out of a game Blizzard were making for them, but that's about it).

 

[water_wendi]

Apparently there's a bit of history between them, and it's no coincidence that some of Blizzard's stuff resembles GW's stuff. Someone else can probably fill you in on that as I'm not sure about the details.

Everything of Blizzards resembles GW's stuff. Except for Diablo which wasnt initial Blizzards.

 

[BattleMonkey]

After what happened to Alderaan, and now in this scenario, Yavin IV, no, there would be no more rebellions. No chance. The Sith would rule the GFFA, utterly, with fear. No one would be alive to know of the Death Star's weakness, and now the Empire even knows what that weakness IS and can redesign (the Death Star II was being designed without that defect).

There would be civil war if Palpatine ever died without a clone to replace himself, which probably would happen sometime around never.

As Robotnik also pointed out, the amount of superweapons Palpatine had in the works was pretty staggering.

Superweapons are meaningless against a guerilla force such as the rebellion. Palpatine never needed the Death Star to destroy a planet, a fleet of star destroyers can pretty much glass a planet them selves. Going around destroying planets is sheer stupidity, and the Destruction of Alderaan had the opposite effect for the Empire, it helped inflame the rebellion and even caused dissension within the Imperial Navy itself. Oh no riots on the planet.... destroy it..... oh oh, sounds like some dissent over on that planet.... time to blow it up too. Way to destroy your own galaxy.

Palpatine had the strongest military and the most "unified" government the GFFA ever knew and that was not enough to stop the Rebellion, once palpy starts vaping planets and holds the galaxy hostage, it will lead to civil war and be far worse than the rebellion ever was. The Empire withstood for so long since majority of the universe turned a blind eye or never saw the evils of the Empire. Slavery condoned by the Empire was never known to the public, they hid it and hired slavers to hide behind, the atrocities often covered up, and to many of the core world populations, the Empire was good for them. Suddenly the Empire is going around the galaxy blowing up planets who oppose the Emperor and you doubt anyone is not going to care? Blowing up Yavin would not have somehow stopped the rest of the Galaxy from forming a Rebellion, nor was the entire rebellion at Yavin in the first place.

Holding the galaxy at gunpoint would never work, for the Empire to work as it did, there has to be transparency as well many of the powerful to be a follower. Sith Empires have risen time and time again in the GFFA, and they always have fallen.

This thread is awesome, and is the only reason why I'm reading anything from Lexicanum. Warhammer 40,000 is pretty badass. Makes you wonder why we don't get cool games or well written novels for this series. Also, is it just me, or did Blizzard rip a lot from Warhammer in general?

The Dawn of War series has been excellent, and some other releases have been fairly good as well. Theres a 40k MMO also in the works but who knows how that will turn out.

There are TONS of 40k novels, and many are quite excellent.

 

[antonz]

Superweapons are meaningless against a guerilla force such as the rebellion. Palpatine never needed the Death Star to destroy a planet, a fleet of star destroyers can pretty much glass a planet them selves. Going around destroying planets is sheer stupidity, and the Destruction of Alderaan had the opposite effect for the Empire, it helped inflame the rebellion and even caused dissension within the Imperial Navy itself. Oh no riots on the planet.... destroy it..... oh oh, sounds like some dissent over on that planet.... time to blow it up too. Way to destroy your own galaxy.

Palpatine had the strongest military and the most "unified" government the GFFA ever knew and that was not enough to stop the Rebellion, once palpy starts vaping planets and holds the galaxy hostage, it will lead to civil war and be far worse than the rebellion ever was. The Empire withstood for so long since majority of the universe turned a blind eye or never saw the evils of the Empire. Slavery condoned by the Empire was never known to the public, they hid it and hired slavers to hide behind, the atrocities often covered up, and to many of the core world populations, the Empire was good for them. Suddenly the Empire is going around the galaxy blowing up planets who oppose the Emperor and you doubt anyone is not going to care? Blowing up Yavin would not have somehow stopped the rest of the Galaxy from forming a Rebellion, nor was the entire rebellion at Yavin in the first place.

Holding the galaxy at gunpoint would never work, for the Empire to work as it did, there has to be transparency as well many of the powerful to be a follower. Sith Empires have risen time and time again in the GFFA, and they always have fallen.



The Dawn of War series has been excellent, and some other releases have been fairly good as well. Theres a 40k MMO also in the works but who knows how that will turn out.

There are TONS of 40k novels, and many are quite excellent.

The Jedi were always key in the fall of the Sith Empires. That is really where Palpatine managed to do more than the others. He for the most part eliminated the Jedi. Luke and Leia dying at Yavin would be a blow that would more or less seal the fate of the jedi.

I think Palpatine would be able to manipulate events enough to rally the galaxy around the new bad guys. Maybe even let a few Imperium ships in to slaughter an Imperial Rim world and broadcast it to the Galaxy as the savage barbarians attacking the Empire.

The Death Star's destruction was vital to the Rebellion taking off. It showed the Galaxy that yes the Empire could be hit and hit hard. The failure at Yavin would destroy any morale left in freedom fighters.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The Jedi were always key in the fall of the Sith Empires. That is really where Palpatine managed to do more than the others. He for the most part eliminated the Jedi. Luke and Leia dying at Yavin would be a blow that would more or less seal the fate of the jedi.

I think Palpatine would be able to manipulate events enough to rally the galaxy around the new bad guys. Maybe even let a few Imperium ships in to slaughter an Imperial Rim world and broadcast it to the Galaxy at the savage barbarians attacking the Empire

It's true about the Jedi usually having a role in bringing down the Sith, but I still don't think a galaxy would just turn on it's back under an oppressive rule. Previous Sith Empires ruled with an iron fist openly and there was always constant conflict, Palpatine had one of the first legitimate Sith governments that most people never knew was under Sith control. But he obviously just can't go around enslaving the galaxy and destroying planets on his own whims, and really, he doesn't have to. The empire already had near limitless power once the Senate was gotten rid of, he just had to keep things going as he had for previous 2 decades after bringing down the Rebellion.

Time frame is also a bit iffy in the scenario since what about the Vong invasion, would this be before they come, because waging a war on two fronts even for the Empire would be tough, the Empire didn't have much knowledge of what the Vong were and what they could do, they just knew they were a threat.

You also have the One Sith in hiding, plotting and building it's own Sith Empire throughout this time period, what would they do? A bid for power against Palpatine perhaps as they did when they stole the Empire from Emperor Fel, or will they sit back and wait a century to pass. The Lost Tribe, Abeloth, etc. Many threats out there for galactic stability that a Death Star can't fix.

Pure and absolute control of a galaxy is just very hard to accept

 

[JayDubya]

Superweapons are meaningless against a guerilla force such as the rebellion. Palpatine never needed the Death Star to destroy a planet, a fleet of star destroyers can pretty much glass a planet them selves. Going around destroying planets is sheer stupidity, and the Destruction of Alderaan had the opposite effect for the Empire, it helped inflame the rebellion and even caused dissension within the Imperial Navy itself. Oh no riots on the planet.... destroy it..... oh oh, sounds like some dissent over on that planet.... time to blow it up too. Way to destroy your own galaxy.

Actually, only the loss of the Death Star made the destruction of Alderaan a positive bit of propaganda for the Rebellion. If Alderaan AND Yavin were destroyed, the Rebellion would have never recovered. More importantly, in this scenario both Luke and Leia would be dead, and there would be no Force sensitives powerful enough to challenge Vader and Palpatine.

The reason Alderaan's destruction worked as Rebellion propaganda is that it demonstrated the Empire's cruelty, but coupled with the victory of Yavin IV, not its omnipotence.

Palpatine had the strongest military and the most "unified" government the GFFA ever knew and that was not enough to stop the Rebellion, once palpy starts vaping planets and holds the galaxy hostage, it will lead to civil war and be far worse than the rebellion ever was. The Empire withstood for so long since majority of the universe turned a blind eye or never saw the evils of the Empire. Slavery condoned by the Empire was never known to the public, they hid it and hired slavers to hide behind, the atrocities often covered up, and to many of the core world populations, the Empire was good for them. Suddenly the Empire is going around the galaxy blowing up planets who oppose the Emperor and you doubt anyone is not going to care? Blowing up Yavin would not have somehow stopped the rest of the Galaxy from forming a Rebellion, nor was the entire rebellion at Yavin in the first place.

The Death Star finally being active and being used and Palpatine abandoning the pretense he wasn't a dictator coincided for a reason. He felt that nothing could challenge him anymore once the Death Star was complete. The station only had one weakness.

If the Death Star II had been completed, without that weakness, he would have been unstoppable. Being omnipotent and quick to use that power has a way of quelling resistance.

The Death Star's loss was tremendous for the Empire's strategic position; it was the only thing that gave the Alliance to Restore the Republic a chance to grow and gather resources.