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[BattleMonkey]

Being omnipotent and quick to use that power has a way of quelling resistance.

So many dictators have thought this, it usually doesn't work out for them. Even his right hand with Vader was not completely loyal and many others were wanting a piece of the pie. Again, the idea of pure and absolute control of the galaxy is just a silly notion.

You have to be delusional if you think no one would care once Palpatine starts blowing up planets, and again, it's not something that is even feasible.

 

[f0rk]

The Death Star finally being active and being used and Palpatine abandoning the pretense he wasn't a dictator coincided for a reason. He felt that nothing could challenge him anymore once the Death Star was complete. The station only had one weakness.

If the Death Star II had been completed, without that weakness, he would have been unstoppable. Being omnipotent and quick to use that power has a way of quelling resistance.

I know this has been said a million times, but this part of the Star Wars story is hilarious.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Actually, only the loss of the Death Star made the destruction of Alderaan a positive bit of propaganda for the Rebellion. If Alderaan AND Yavin were destroyed, the Rebellion would have never recovered. More importantly, in this scenario both Luke and Leia would be dead, and there would be no Force sensitives powerful enough to challenge Vader and Palpatine.

The reason Alderaan's destruction worked as Rebellion propaganda is that it demonstrated the Empire's cruelty, but coupled with the victory of Yavin IV, not its omnipotence.



The Death Star finally being active and being used and Palpatine abandoning the pretense he wasn't a dictator coincided for a reason. He felt that nothing could challenge him anymore once the Death Star was complete. The station only had one weakness.

If the Death Star II had been completed, without that weakness, he would have been unstoppable. Being omnipotent and quick to use that power has a way of quelling resistance.

The Death Star's loss was tremendous for the Empire's strategic position; it was the only thing that gave the Alliance to Restore the Republic a chance to grow and gather resources.

The Death Star would get annihilated by most ships focusing on taking it out, to hell with casualties, we have reserves!

 

[JayDubya]

So many dictators have thought this, it usually doesn't work out for them. Even his right hand with Vader was not completely loyal and many others were wanting a piece of the pie. Again, the idea of pure and absolute control of the galaxy is just a silly notion.

But see, the problem with what those dictators were thinking was that they felt like they were omnipotent.

Palpatine would be omnipotent.

I mean, yeah, Vader might eventually go for the throne himself but I doubt it. He knows he would die on his own. Hell, Vader would never even know his son lived in this scenario.

I know this has been said a million times, but this part of the Star Wars story is hilarious.

With invincibility your mileage may vary, but suffice to say that in that setting, nothing else had the firepower to harm or otherwise impede that thing in any meaningful way.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The Death Star would get annihilated by most ships focusing on taking it out, to hell with casualties, we have reserves!

In the SW galaxy, few fleets could provide such fire power, but in the 40K universe, yea... the death star would be easily taken out. Couple Nova cannons and poof.

Death Star was powerful in its own galaxy, but when you bring it up against other franchises, it often is just a big sitting target.

 

[Saiyar]

In the SW galaxy, few fleets could provide such fire power, but in the 40K universe, yea... the death star would be easily taken out. Couple Nova cannons and poof.

Death Star was powerful in its own galaxy, but when you bring it up against other franchises, it often is just a big sitting target.

You wouldn't even need Nova Cannons. Anything with a lance battery would be able to take the Deaths Star's main cannon out relatively quickly.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

I really doubt the Empire can enslave and turn the entire SW galaxy into a giant war machine. Even at it's height of power, the Empire did not control the entire SW galaxy as much of the outer rim territories were out of their control. Other factions also had claims to various planets and not under the Imperial rule. Most of the rebellious elements originated from oppressed worlds, while most of the core systems in the SW galaxy thrived under the Empire for long time. Suddenly the Emperor enslaving everyone to create a giant war effort, is likely going to backfire. The Empire was less lenient and still it fostered the Rebellion in the OT. The entire galaxy being oppressed by the Empire is going to just turn out bad for Palpy.

I assumed Palpatine could excise his power for a few reasons.

(1) The Senate has been disbanded, all "human" rights can be decided by Palpatine without any need to justify them, even to a powerless senate. No Sith has never had as absolute a rule as he does now.

(2) All major rebellion figures have been exterminated.

(3) The Death Star is completely unassailable for any other power in the SW galaxy. Its shielded, immensely well armed, and has a weak point that will undoubtedly be fixed (as Tarkin recognised it only during the attack). No one is taking it out.

(4) Palpatine can provide an ultimatum - if you are housing rebels, then your world will be destroyed and billions will be killed. After say 10-20 planets have been exterminated, every planetary ruler will concede all demands. Palatine can even cull troublesome worlds at his choosing.

In a total war scenario with one goal - a goal that Palatine is putting above all others, he will do anything to achieve it. Every resource will be used, and if that involves effective slavery of the worlds in his Empire, nothing is going to stop him. He could order each world to produce millions of clone troopers, weapons, droids and ships, and force the planet to entirely devote themselves to this task. Any deviation, and they will be destroyed. I think Tarkin was right on this.

Even if five hundred of planets are wiped, there are still 11,999,500 left to mass produce for the war effort.

Palpatine can even support this by propagandising the (legitimate) horrors that could enter from the other galaxy. The Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar the Necrons, I know as an Imperial citizen I'd want to do whatever the hell I could to keep these evil monstrosities out of our galaxy.

I can't believe the idea that a numbers game against the Imperium is thought to be a viable tactic.

We know that the Imperium has at least a million worlds, and Palpatine has uncontested access to the resources of at least twelve million. Numbers are very comparable.

The difference being that Palpatine has greater industrial process as unlike the Imperium, he can mass produce with droids and automatons, improve and innovate design, nand ot be slowed down by Adeptus Mechanicus rituals.

The sheer quantity of resources that the Imperium has in terms of producing IG units and agri-worlds and so and so forth is ridiculously massive. Taking out planets one at a time? Even if that was a viable method without eventually getting caught it would take so damn long to do so. I don't even see how blowing up every single planet in sigh would be beneficial at all.

Blowing up the farmworlds would be incredibly beneficial. When these are gone, Holy Terra will starve. Its quite simple.

The "ridiculously massive" numbers are equally applicable (if not moreso) to SW.

On top of that, the Empire is going to have to map out the 40k Galaxy. They can't just Hyperspace around the place without knowing the layout or they will end up inside a sun or something. Now that in itself is a fairly long task, and even then not something that will have 100% yield.

I am assuming that a solution could be found by aprehending a vessel and downloading its star charts. We know (as per the OP) that an Imperial Probe Droide could interface and download the data from the remenant computers on a space hulk, so it shouldn't exactly be an issue.

Hell, as per Empire Strikes Back, Imperial Probe Droids themselves can FTL, so a million launched through the wormhole could start hyperspace charting.

The Space superiority thing is only in terms of ship to ship firepower and traversing in terms of FTL speeds.

There is no 'only' about this. These are massively imporant advantages that could win the war. If you have faster ships, stronger ships, and an industrial capacity to produce ships faster and more efficiently than your opponent, then you are closer to winning a war than they are.

If at any point a kill team get's onto a GE ship (ram-and-board or teleporting onto it) then that GE ship is lost. Not to mention it may be captured and it's technologies harnessed for the good of the Imperium (since I doubt this war would be a short one).

(1) Star Wars ships have shields that can vapourise fast-moving asteroids (as per Empire Strikes Back) so ramming would be difficult unless it was a collosal sized-vessel (and even then the damage caused would render the tactic worthless.

(2) The Imperium don't assimilate alien technology into their armies, they'd die first. Its absolute heresy.

This also all depends on the idea that the GE survive the initial onslaught the Imperium will throw at them the moment they come out of the rift in 40k space. Without a doubt the Imperium will be aware of this massive new "Eye of Terror" like rip in space and send a shitload of military resources for the just in case scenario.

I think they'd adapt and implement one of Grand Admiral Thrawn's infamous strategies:

(1) Grab 10,000 large asteroids.
(2) Fit each asteroid with a cloaking device.
(3) Send them through the wormhole at different angles, velocities and trajectories. Absolute decimation. Any blockade of the Wormhole will back off or die.

In reponse to the fact of forseeing events. It's not just normal Imperium Psykers (putting aside powerful one's like Tigurius himself), but the Emperor himself who forsees and helps things along. All it takes is for one encounter in which they predict the presence of the SW ships. The moment that happens, all manner of kill teams are going to be on those ships, and I am confident they will be overrun by Imperial forces.

If the SW ships are faster, have greater levels of firepower and greater numbers, how exactly will they be overrun?

Star Wars loses simply for being outnumbered about 15 to 1.

Can we have some data on how they are outnumbered becuase I'm not seeing it. At all.

An Imerium world would be quite hard to convince but there are plenty of non Imperium human worlds in the 40k galaxy. Those planets might be convinced to work with the Empire.

I agree that any alliances are best with non-Imperial worlds. The Imperial planets are absolutely devout and would probably be far more terrified of Imperium retribution to help the Empire.

But that aside - how long does GE air-superiority last if one of their bigger ships (or worse, a deathstar) wanders out too close to Chaos-infested space (or an ork-system). Don't think GE has a history of fighting battles where enemy has almost limitless numbers to throw against them, even in space. Indeed Imperium's strategy would likely involve this too - use ground superiority to capture the enemy tech.
Any strategy of GE that doesn't involve actively avoiding conflict(hit and run is easy with hyperspace and superlasers indeed) until they've wore down the opposition through attrition or other means would be risky at best. And if WH races work out that gravity fields can be used to pull ships out of Hyperspace or prevent them from escaping, most of air-superiority would be lost.

(1) The GE has no reason to go near Chaos space or the Eye of Terror. In fact I imagine standing orders will be to avoid it at all costs.

(2) Who in 40k would be smart enough to work out the gravity effect? Tau and Eldar, can't really see the Imperium having time to measure it.

Vaders elite got assfucked by Ewoks on the ground and dudes with fish faces in space.

The God-king of pimps marneus calgar got his title by fighting these things every tuesday.

The Galactic Empire has planning informed by Thrawn. He's probably the smartest man in Star Wars. He will undertand that in ground conflict, Imperium units have the upper hand. Ergo he will avoid ground combat.

Robotnik, the empire wouldn't even need to relly on those 4 planet busters to do the dirty work, star destroyers were perfectly capable of glassing planets in short timescales. that's how the got the name in the first place.

hell, at the least you could add the 20 odd super star destroyers the empire had or was building by the end of jedi.

I agree, but my understanding is that when Star Destroyers BDZ a planet, it can take time (and risk them being boarded or attacked). My superweapon strategy avoids giving the Imperium any opportunities to do this. Hyperspace in -> Aim superlaser -> Fire -> Hyperspace out.

The Empire would have a much easier time building superweapons and SSDs and fleets and whatnot with the Rebellion completely quelled.

To note something else...

The GFFA is marginally larger than the Milky Way, and the Imperium does not control all of the Milky Way. In this scenario, the Empire has a LOT of resources available and does not have a credible hindrance to acquiring any of those resources.

Massively agree. All evidence seems to conclude that Palpatine's war machine will be massively more resourced than the Imperiums.

This whole argument seems reliant on plot devices.

If a device is canon then its fully applicable.

If a portal just opened one day, it would take the empire a very long time to have every single planet in the galaxy producing clone troopers. It could also bankrupt them, since building the executor apparently very nearly did that. It just seems impractical to turn the resources of an entire galaxy towards clone production.

Given that Thrawn could do it in a matter of weeks, using the combination of accelerated growth cloning and Ysalamiri (and this was when he was the underdog leading a defeated and crushed Empire), then they have nothing to stop them.

Bankruptcy is not a problem when your economy does what you tell it to. If Palpatine orders a planet to use its manpower and resources to build and clone, they do so or become the next Death Star target. As Thrawn proved it could be done, armies could begin to be churned out in weeks. Droid armies even quicker.

You need to compare hard facts rather than plot devices.

Go on...

Marines would slaughter stormtroopers,

In any well implemented campaign, a smart tactician would never send a dog to fight a battleship. Stormtroopers will never fight the Marines.

your doomsday weapons would get taken out by farmboys enlisted by the imperium

Utter nonsense.

and your ships would be obscenely outnumbered.

12 million dominated worlds, a faster industrial base, massively more resources and stronger ships say otherwise.

SW looses

They might. Or they might win.

 

[Salazar]

You didn't come off as a die-hard SW partisan in the OP, Robotnik.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

You didn't come off as a die-hard SW partisan in the OP, Robotnik.

I'm trying not to be. Pretty badly when I read it through though.

I think seeing so many people dismiss the might of the Galactic Empire caused me to want to argue their case. There are a lot of assumptions flying about that if you put a single Space Marine next to a Stormtroopers, the entire dynamics of a war footing have been established.

I'll happily admit I don't know who would win. I think each side has such incredible strengths that it is anyone's guess. What I really want to get across is despite assumptions, this is no easy win for either side.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Just to throw another question out there before I go to bed:

Which would be the worst race to get through the wormhole and establish a foothold in the SW Galaxy?

 

[Saiyar]

Just to throw another question out there before I go to bed:

Which would be the worst race to get through the wormhole and establish a foothold in the SW Galaxy?

Necrons. They don't need the warp (actually they hate it so they would probably love the GFFA) and their technology is ridiculous (even by 40k standards).

That said, if a Narvhal's gravity manipulation fucks up hyperspace travel then the Tyranids would be the much bigger threat.

 

[Kalnos]

40k is meant to be over the top, and thus SW never stood a chance.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I haven't read any of the books but the Dawn of War games are pretty good, you should check them out.



Apparently there's a bit of history between them, and it's no coincidence that some of Blizzard's stuff resembles GW's stuff. Someone else can probably fill you in on that though, as I'm not sure about the details (I've read rumours that GW backed out of a game Blizzard were making for them, but that's about it).

A Fuckton of artists that worked at GW have either moved to, or done contract work for blizzard over the years. The big names as well, the guys you'd see on the army books.

Andy chambers was a game designer at GW, he moved to blizzard as a creative lead on SC2.

Ian Livingstone, a GW founder left to form Eidos.

Steve Jackson, another GW partner co-founded lionhead.

 

[Sir Hamish]

(3) The Death Star is completely unassailable for any other power in the SW galaxy. Its shielded, immensely well armed, and has a weak point that will undoubtedly be fixed (as Tarkin recognised it only during the attack). No one is taking it out.

See this is a problem. You say here that:

If a device is canon then its fully applicable.

It's canon that the Imperials built a death star with a design flaw, which resulted in it getting blown up by a farmboy. So it stands to reason that the IoM could take advantage of the same design flaw.

(4) Palpatine can provide an ultimatum - if you are housing rebels, then your world will be destroyed and billions will be killed. After say 10-20 planets have been exterminated, every planetary ruler will concede all demands. Palatine can even cull troublesome worlds at his choosing.

And the IoM would do the exact same if they invaded the GFFA.

In a total war scenario with one goal - a goal that Palatine is putting above all others, he will do anything to achieve it. Every resource will be used, and if that involves effective slavery of the worlds in his Empire, nothing is going to stop him. He could order each world to produce millions of clone troopers, weapons, droids and ships, and force the planet to entirely devote themselves to this task. Any deviation, and they will be destroyed. I think Tarkin was right on this.

Even if five hundred of planets are wiped, there are still 11,999,500 left to mass produce for the war effort.

Palpatine can even support this by propagandising the (legitimate) horrors that could enter from the other galaxy. The Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar the Necrons, I know as an Imperial citizen I'd want to do whatever the hell I could to keep these evil monstrosities out of our galaxy.



We know that the Imperium has at least a million worlds, and Palpatine has uncontested access to the resources of at least twelve million. Numbers are very comparable.

The difference being that Palpatine has greater industrial process as unlike the Imperium, he can mass produce with droids and automatons, improve and innovate design, nand ot be slowed down by Adeptus Mechanicus rituals.

How would this in any way work? The GFFA already had a substantial rebel movement, what you are suggesting would probably cause more internal strife and would also be very hard to implement. Unlike the IoM, the Star Wars galaxy isn't geared towards total war 24/7.
The Empire had clone labs on Kamino, one world, if a big portal opens the next day clone labs arent going to spring up on every one of those 20 million worlds that exact same night and start cranking out clones and droids.

Blowing up the farmworlds would be incredibly beneficial. When these are gone, Holy Terra will starve. Its quite simple.

I am assuming that a solution could be found by aprehending a vessel and downloading its star charts. We know (as per the OP) that an Imperial Probe Droide could interface and download the data from the remenant computers on a space hulk, so it shouldn't exactly be an issue.

Hell, as per Empire Strikes Back, Imperial Probe Droids themselves can FTL, so a million launched through the wormhole could start hyperspace charting.

On the point of charting etc. The IoM could probably take out Coruscant early on in the game. Your average GFFA citizen probably knows where Coruscant is and how to get there, whereas the same isn't the case for your average overworked IoM citizen. All the IoM would need to do is capture someone, figure out where Coruscant is, get there and do a wee Exterminatus. The Empire would have no clue where Terra is.

(1) The GE has no reason to go near Chaos space or the Eye of Terror. In fact I imagine standing orders will be to avoid it at all costs.

The GE probably have no idea what the eye of terror is and would probably go check it out. You seem to assume the GE would have full knowledge of the IoM galaxy. They probably don't.

Bankruptcy is not a problem when your economy does what you tell it to. If Palpatine orders a planet to use its manpower and resources to build and clone, they do so or become the next Death Star target. As Thrawn proved it could be done, armies could begin to be churned out in weeks. Droid armies even quicker.

If this is the case why wouldn't they tell the economy to not go bankrupt building the Executor?

In any well implemented campaign, a smart tactician would never send a dog to fight a battleship. Stormtroopers will never fight the Marines.

In any well implemented campaign, a smart tactician would send his best troops to attack the enemies weak points. Marines will always fight stormtroopers. Grey Knights and terminators cant teleport. What's to stop them teleporting onto the Death Star and slaughtering everyone on board then using the Death Star against the GE? As far as I am aware the GE have no defence against teleportation.

Your strategy seems to be hyperspace in ----> blow up planet ----> hyperspace out

Remember the Imperium has psykers who can predict future events on a scale far beyond the Jedi. I'd imagine they would see the destruction of a whole world in the warp and your strategy would be something like this

Hyperspace in ---> Grey Knights teleport on board ---> slaughter crew ---> steal Death Star

From the lexicanum:
The ship-based teleporter devices used by the Terminators are maintained by Astropaths. Using their psychically gifted minds, they allow the Terminators a brief moment of safe passage by shifting certain aspects of the warp. Some, mainly the members of the Ordo Malleus, have shown scorn for the idea of using the Warp to allow the troops of the Imperium the ability to teleport. However, none can criticize the vast amount of battles the Imperium has won due to this ability.

This is another one of those battles they would probably win.

 

[Meteorain]

I'll eventually get round to answering Mama Robotnik's huge ass post, but I came across this. It's pretty funny. Yes, I'm sure that there are bigger SW ships, but it's to alleviate the mood a little. The ridiculous statue on the ship is most amusing.

Also, could I get another statement on how fast FTL travel is in the SW universe?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Just to throw another question out there before I go to bed:

Which would be the worst race to get through the wormhole and establish a foothold in the SW Galaxy?

The Orks, for they really can't be defeated. The way they exist, unlike other races you rarely can ever truly get rid of Orks. Nids can be destroyed and held back, Necrons can be beaten as well but the Necrons would likely not even bother touching the wormhole, they are focused on their goals. Tau and most other races on their own are also beatable on their own.

But Orks, even when you kill them all, their spores left behind will eventually have them come back, and the spores spread easily and they break out like the plague. The endless green tide.

 

[BattleMonkey]

(3) The Death Star is completely unassailable for any other power in the SW galaxy. Its shielded, immensely well armed, and has a weak point that will undoubtedly be fixed (as Tarkin recognised it only during the attack). No one is taking it out.

Outside of another faction getting ahold of their own super weapon through various means. The Hutts had the darksaber, which was basically the Death Star cannon without the space station. A handful of characters stole the Sun Crusher which can destroy a star system.

You also have the greatest super weapon in the galaxy that the Empire doesn't control, Centerpoint Station, which can destroy planets and entire fleets from light years away.

And again you have to be able to really quell any possible insurrection as there were many who wanted control of the Empire within the Empire itself. And if Palpatine tosses the 'rule of two' out the window and begins training army of Sith as mentioned in the OP, he is just setting himself up for disaster... as it always does. Sith crave power, and they backstab each other at every corner, the rule of two was supposed to help keep the Sith in line and not lead the the in fighting that always happens amongst them. Darth Krayt learns this when he takes power in the future and disposes of the rule.

You wouldn't even need Nova Cannons. Anything with a lance battery would be able to take the Deaths Star's main cannon out relatively quickly.

There is nothing about Lance cannons that will magically allow it to take out the Death Star, especially as they have quoted and factual data attached to their power. Single lance hit can not even destroy a simple escort vessel smaller than many GE ships. 40k universe has many powerful weapons, but it's going to take lots more firepower than simple lance cannons to take out the DS, especially if it's shielded.

I've seen people claim how powerful lance batteries are and the crazy ranges they can do as in hundreds of kilometers, but this is never presented in fiction, nor in any of the games. Lances are nowhere near as powerful as some sources have claimed, the fiction and battlefleet gothic directly contradict it.

 

[antonz]

I'll eventually get round to answering Mama Robotnik's huge ass post, but I came across this. It's pretty funny. Yes, I'm sure that there are bigger SW ships, but it's to alleviate the mood a little. The ridiculous statue on the ship is most amusing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/jmjon9/1237763805345.gif
Also, could I get another statement on how fast FTL travel is in the SW universe?

Hyperspace allows cross Galaxy travel in a day. Darth Maul travelled from Coruscant to Tatooine in 7 Hours. Considering the natuye of the Sith Infiltrator though it can be said it likely had a very exceptional Hyperspace drive. Something like the Death Star would probably take a week to cross the Galaxy while Star Destroyers 2-3 days

 

[BattleMonkey]

Hyperspace allows cross Galaxy travel in a day. Darth Maul travelled from Coruscant to Tatooine in 7 Hours. Considering the natuye of the Sith Infiltrator though it can be said it likely had a very exceptional Hyperspace drive. Something like the Death Star would probably take a week to cross the Galaxy while Star Destroyers 2-3 days

Depends on the hyperdrive, and the route being taken. Tatooine lies right off a major hyperspace route direct from Coruscant and into further outer rim territories, its a very straight forward path.

 

[Saiyar]

There is nothing about Lance cannons that will magically allow it to take out the Death Star, especially as they have quoted and factual data attached to their power. Single lance hit can not even destroy a simple escort vessel smaller than many GE ships. 40k universe has many powerful weapons, but it's going to take lots more firepower than simple lance cannons to take out the DS, especially if it's shielded.

In Ciaphas Cain: Caves of Ice it was stated that a couple of volleys from a battlehips lance batteries was enought to destroy a continent and leave the planet uninhabitable for generations.

It doesn't need to destroy the DS, it just needs to cause enough damage to the main cannon to stop it firing. I assume continet destoying levels of firepower is enough.

 

[BattleMonkey]

In Ciaphas Cain: Caves of Ice it was stated that a couple of volleys from a battlehips lance batteries was enought to destroy a continent and leave the planet uninhabitable for generations.

It doesn't need to destroy the DS, it just needs to cause enough damage to the main cannon to stop it firing. I assume continet destoying levels of firepower is enough.

Turbolasers are able to do similar damage, couple hits can take out cities and entire planets glassed over with continual bombardment, while you have SD's with 60 some turbo lasers. The DS is supposed to be able to take on fleets no problelm.

The Death Star is also not just a giant planet killing beam which everyone focuses on, but it has incredible fire power. It has thousands of turbolasers giving it more firepower than most fleets, thousands of ion cannons, and smaller laser cannons. Over 19,000 support craft such as fighters, bombers, gunboats, etc.

Fully operational DS especially the DSII would be nightmares. Course again as I mentioned before, I think one nova cannon shot would probably take out huge chunk of the DS anyways....

 

[Meteorain]

BattleMonkey: I have a question for you since you played Gothic.

Void shields on all battleships, you think they can sustain a fair amount of damage from Destroyer weapons? They essentially just dissipate energy shots fired at it into the warp.

I've been looking at some numbers online on SW and Imperial weaponry, and it seems that whilst the SW numbers are higher at the peak, on a general level, the firepower is approximately the same in power level. Surely IoM ships should be able to withstand a fair bit of battering from the GE ships.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Depends on the ship of course, but a thing with void shields is that they have weak spots and holds, they are not perfect like you find in shields in many other franchises. Hence why in game shields have a percentage of blocking shots as well as in the ground combat games, shields only stop some shots. Even with shields up, shots still often get through.

Some large vessels and such like titans will employ multiple void shield fields as an attempt to try and block possible holes.

Power levels being possibly comparable, the IoM ships can possibly absorb some of the shots but then how many shots can it take and how much fire a ship pumps into it are all hard to guess. Also void shields don't seem to stop physical attacks in many cases, as torpedoes can bypass the shields, as well as fighters and landing craft which is a big negative for the void shields.

The other unknown that really can't be calculated is the armor, as both universe use made up armors so we don't really know how weapons from each universe would affect each other. The durasteel from SW and other armors might just deflect some 40k weapons, it's a made up metal alloy for that universe, and the same vice versa against 40k armor.

 

[Saiyar]

Depends on the ship of course, but a thing with void shields is that they have weak spots and holds, they are not perfect like you find in shields in many other franchises. Hence why in game shields have a percentage of blocking shots as well as in the ground combat games, shields only stop some shots. Even with shields up, shots still often get through.

Some large vessels and such like titans will employ multiple void shield fields as an attempt to try and block possible holes.

Power levels being possibly comparable, the IoM ships can possibly absorb some of the shots but then how many shots can it take and how much fire a ship pumps into it are all hard to guess. Also void shields don't seem to stop physical attacks in many cases, as torpedoes can bypass the shields, as well as fighters and landing craft which is a big negative for the void shields.

The other unknown that really can't be calculated is the armor, as both universe use made up armors so we don't really know how weapons from each universe would affect each other. The durasteel from SW and other armors might just deflect some 40k weapons, it's a made up metal alloy for that universe, and the same vice versa against 40k armor.

These days in game Void shileds block all damage till they are comletely down. You need to get within their AoE or use slow moving ordnace to avoid them.

 

[duk]

so did W40k win in the first episode yet so we can get to the second empire strikes back episode

 

[Meteorain]

Depends on the ship of course, but a thing with void shields is that they have weak spots and holds, they are not perfect like you find in shields in many other franchises. Hence why in game shields have a percentage of blocking shots as well as in the ground combat games, shields only stop some shots. Even with shields up, shots still often get through.

Some large vessels and such like titans will employ multiple void shield fields as an attempt to try and block possible holes.

Power levels being possibly comparable, the IoM ships can possibly absorb some of the shots but then how many shots can it take and how much fire a ship pumps into it are all hard to guess. Also void shields don't seem to stop physical attacks in many cases, as torpedoes can bypass the shields, as well as fighters and landing craft which is a big negative for the void shields.

The other unknown that really can't be calculated is the armor, as both universe use made up armors so we don't really know how weapons from each universe would affect each other. The durasteel from SW and other armors might just deflect some 40k weapons, it's a made up metal alloy for that universe, and the same vice versa against 40k armor.

Well most IoM ships seem to use multiple void shields anyway, so they seem to soak up a lot of power. I don't see many SW ships using non-energy/plasma weapons.

I was just trying to see if it was a possibility to refute the whole "SD's can vape fast moving asteroids" so they would take out ramming ships. Well it seems that the numbers are too low to actually just blast a ship out of the way. Not to mention I'm pretty sure the ships will be traveling much faster than an asteroid through normal space.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Well most IoM ships seem to use multiple void shields anyway, so they seem to soak up a lot of power. I don't see many SW ships using non-energy/plasma weapons.

I was just trying to see if it was a possibility to refute the whole "SD's can vape fast moving asteroids" so they would take out ramming ships. Well it seems that the numbers are too low to actually just blast a ship out of the way. Not to mention I'm pretty sure the ships will be traveling much faster than an asteroid through normal space.

Most larger ships should be well protected, but the game simplifies much of it. Many large ships can only take 2-3 hits before the shields come down, but then again the game simplifies how much firepower is being dished out by a ship since having a player roll hundreds of dice for all the weapon batteries is not fun.

 

[Mindlog]

Reactions to the declaration of intergalactic war -

SW: The Emperor has gone mad with power. One day we may stop him, but today we are forced to fight. :sadface:
Imperium: It's Tuesday?

If the Empire ever parks a Death Star over a planet of squats the DS is dead.

While things are being idealized let's say the Imperium also restores a complete STC.

floating storks
dirigibles

 

[Meteorain]

Most larger ships should be well protected, but the game simplifies much of it. Many large ships can only take 2-3 hits before the shields come down, but then again the game simplifies how much firepower is being dished out by a ship since having a player roll hundreds of dice for all the weapon batteries is not fun.

Fluff wise, the ship shielding only goes down after several hits from much bigger weapons. Those weapons power are magnitudes greater than conventional fire from most SW ships. I think it would be safe to assume a ram and board tactic is perfectly viable since stuff like Star Destroyer amour seems to be perfectly pierce-able by the boarding ships.

It seems to me in this scenario though that the Empire has to access to everything in their canon; past or present. Whereas the Imperium is well...not. Not complaining, just saying it seems a bit weird that they have access to anything in their history; including dead guys.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Somewhat unrelated, but... wow, Space Marine looks pretty sweet. Hopefully the game will be polished by the time it's released.

EDIT: Also, I ordered Eisenhorn. Looks like it's pretty well received.

 

[Salazar]

Somewhat unrelated, but... wow, Space Marine looks pretty sweet. Hopefully the game will be polished by the time it's released.

The developer interview was badass, too. I am so amazingly hyped for it.

In other news, I just bought a fuckton of miniatures and paints.

 

[Meteorain]

The developer interview was badass, too. I am so amazingly hyped for it.

In other news, I just bought a fuckton of miniatures and paints.

What army? You can't leave that out! Any idea on a colour scheme?

 

[Salazar]

What army? You can't leave that out! Any idea on a colour scheme?

Blood Angels.

Uh, a bit of red, I suppose Some bone-ish trim.

Free shipping = a Good Thing.

 

[Meteorain]

Blood Angels.

Uh, a bit of red, I suppose Some bone-ish trim.

Free shipping = a Good Thing.

Oh my man! They are my chapter of choice too!

I suggest using a black undercoat. You get a much better colour of red come out. Also if it's your first time, don't be too hasty. Painting them slowly is good even if it feels like it's taking an age. If you rush it, they will come out looking shitty! Hell, a week on one guy is normal for me! (Well when I did last buy some models!)

Don't let anyone badmouth the BA Primarch man. He went around perform backbreakers on Greater Demons. Horus himself admitted he was the best Primarch around.

 

[duk]

Somewhat unrelated, but... wow, Space Marine looks pretty sweet. Hopefully the game will be polished by the time it's released.

EDIT: Also, I ordered Eisenhorn. Looks like it's pretty well received.

how come he isn't bald?

 

[Salazar]

Also if it's your first time, don't be too hasty.

No, I fucked around for a long time with OG fantasy Warhammer. I intend to make the painting process last for a damned long time.

 

[Sinatar]

(3) The Death Star is completely unassailable for any other power in the SW galaxy. Its shielded, immensely well armed, and has a weak point that will undoubtedly be fixed (as Tarkin recognised it only during the attack). No one is taking it out.

It requires a nearby planetary body with a dedicated power source to shield it, something they wouldn't have with your scorched earth tactic.

If you have faster ships, stronger ships, and an industrial capacity to produce ships faster and more efficiently than your opponent, then you are closer to winning a war than they are.

The ships are faster, they are not stronger. It's also important to note that they have to actually build these ships and deploy them through the rift. The Imperium already has an impossibly huge fleet spread all throughout their territory. Key planets like the ones you would have the empire destroy have standing defensive fleets, defensive space stations and planetary defenses. Simply warping in and destroying the planet is no simple task, the odds of them successfully doing so to enough planets to starve Terra without their super weapons taking catastrophic damage is pretty much 0.

(1) Grab 10,000 large asteroids.
(2) Fit each asteroid with a cloaking device.
(3) Send them through the wormhole at different angles, velocities and trajectories. Absolute decimation. Any blockade of the Wormhole will back off or die.

Star Wars cloaking is a radar cloak, not a star trek-esque invisibility field. Their asteroids would be shot down or bounce harmlessly off their void shielded craft.

If the SW ships are faster, have greater levels of firepower and greater numbers, how exactly will they be overrun?

Their only significant advantage is speed and they certainly don't have greater numbers. Again the Empire has the manufacturing capacity to make an immense fleet but that takes time and resources. Again they also have to actually deploy these forces through the rift and maintain a supply chain to keep them maintained and their own people fed.

The Galactic Empire has planning informed by Thrawn. He's probably the smartest man in Star Wars. He will undertand that in ground conflict, Imperium units have the upper hand. Ergo he will avoid ground combat.

He cannot take Holy Terra without ground forces and he can't maintain a supply chain for his army without taking and holding territory. Terra is all but immune to orbital bombardment. 40K is ridiculous enough that the whole planet is actually coated in some kind of reflective metal armor that would repel any such attempt. (I read this on the Lexicanum, but I can't remember the article)

My superweapon strategy avoids giving the Imperium any opportunities to do this. Hyperspace in -> Aim superlaser -> Fire -> Hyperspace out.

There is nothing to suggest they are capable of hyperspace jumping that accurately, they had to maneuver the Death Star into position to take out Yavin.

 

[Meteorain]

That's another point actually.

It's a lot of Thrawn this, Thrawn that. Yes, he is a tactical genius but that doesn't mean he holds that position alone.

The Imperium has many Generals and Warmasters who are astounding tacticians. On a daily basis they deal with immensely large battlefields. It just needed to be pointed out that the Imperium are not lacking in geniuses either; specifically bred for war.

Yes a fair few of them are idiots who turn everything into meat-grinders, but the truly gifted are the one's who control the whole thing. These guys also have many centuries of experience at the job too.

 

[pieatorium]

Blood Angels are for noobs.

 

[Salazar]

Blood Angels are for noobs.

In a thread filled with brain-busting varieties, quantities, and degrees of imaginary violence, I might as well challenge you to a duel or something.

 

[pieatorium]

In a thread filled with brain-busting varieties, quantities, and degrees of imaginary violence, I might as well challenge you to a duel or something.

I choose plasma pistols at 15 paces.

 

[Salazar]

I choose plasma pistols at 15 paces.

1 pace.

 

[peakish]

The developer interview was badass, too. I am so amazingly hyped for it.

In other news, I just bought a fuckton of miniatures and paints.

I think a few of my friends were planning on beginning with 40k again so this thread also got me pumped. I really feel like assaulting positions with an Ork army and rolling 60d6 at a time now.

Then I checked how much a 500p army would cost - how the hell is it more expensive to buy this shit now than it was ten years ago

 

[Meteorain]

Blood Angels are for noobs.

You either play Black Templars or Tau!


Peakish: Oh man, the stuff is so expensive now. I haven't bought anything in years though. My army is still missing a Dreadnought!

 

[shas'la]

I choose plasma pistols at 15 paces.

 

[Puddles]

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that almost everything in the Star Wars prequels and EU fucking sucks. Grand Admiral Thrawn was awesome. Zahn should have been the only writer allowed to write EU stuff. At the very least, Kevin J. Anderson should never have been allowed anywhere near the series.

 

[∀ Narayan]

You either play Black Templars or Tau!

What about Necron? If I ever get into the tabletop game, I think I would like to command a techno-organic undead army. It's just too cool!

 

[pieatorium]

You either play Black Templars or Tau!

Nah straight up vanilla marines.

 

[BattleMonkey]

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that almost everything in the Star Wars prequels and EU fucking sucks. Grand Admiral Thrawn was awesome. Zahn should have been the only writer allowed to write EU stuff. At the very least, Kevin J. Anderson should never have been allowed anywhere near the series.

KJA should not be allowed to do anything. His work on Dune *yikes*

 

[Enosh]

I'll eventually get round to answering Mama Robotnik's huge ass post, but I came across this. It's pretty funny. Yes, I'm sure that there are bigger SW ships, but it's to alleviate the mood a little. The ridiculous statue on the ship is most amusing.

Also, could I get another statement on how fast FTL travel is in the SW universe?

that picture is such bullshit, the size disparity isn't that huge