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[patsu]

I was trying to think what Sony brought to gaming with PS3...

Bluray
Chargable controllers

...

.....

HOME, I guess...

Help me out. Games excluded. OS, services and hardware only.

I was trying to think what a PS4 would be? Aside from MOAR PoWERZ. And, you know, it was kind of hard to see much innovation by way of PS3 imho. And I look at Sony's tablet attempts, Xperia, the PlayStation Suite, Vita OS, PSN, SEN or whatever it's called tomorrow...It's pretty clear they don't know what they're doing. You have to hope their 1st parties are advising them. I suspect prior to Kaz, Japan likely wouldnt have given two shits what Naughty Dog thought about how to turn PS4 into a winner. I hope in a Kaz World, the opposite rings truer.

A few off the top of my head. There are probably more...
* Blu-ray for next gen and next next gen storage
* Renewed effort in 3D gaming
* Playstation Suite çan actually be interesting, depending on how Sony play their cards
* Open standards (HDD, OtherOS)
* Free online gaming
* EyeToy, PSEye
* RemotePlay
* MLAA, plus all the cool tech sharing with developers

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Vita should have also been a minimum spec that Sony would use in phones from day one. It baffles me that it literally ended up being a PSP2.

 

[AgentChris]

As big as gears? yea ok. Halo? I dont know about that, its close but I dont think you could put God of war, uncharted

Spoiler

and gran turismo

in the same place as halo.

In terms of sales GT is probably bigger than Halo.

 

[goldenpp72]

In terms of sales GT is probably bigger than Halo.

It definitely isn't if you factor this generation.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

As big as gears? yea ok. Halo? I dont know about that, its close but I dont think you could put God of war, uncharted

Spoiler

and gran turismo

in the same place as halo.

I won't put UC or GOW near Halo but GT i would .

It definitely isn't if you factor this generation.

Yep this gen GT sold less but it's still a big IP.

 

[patsu]

Titles and franchises will evolve, rise and fall out of favors. As long as they are "big" enough, micro-ranking probably doesn't really matter much.

Vita should have also been a minimum spec that Sony would use in phones from day one. It baffles me that it literally ended up being a PSP2.

IMHO, the problem is their marketing. The concept may actually be sound after owning it for a while.

 

[KillerTravis]

In terms of sales GT is probably bigger than Halo.

Probably yeah, problem is they release one every 5 years or so.

 

[Taurus]

I'm sure SCE would be fine, whatever happens, so there's no need for gaffers to worry.

Thankfully there's nothing to fear

They'll be fine. A company like Sony has too much to offer to go under.

Look at MS and Nintendo's hardware this gen. It's either super dated or doomed to red ring. Only Sony can make cutting edge hardware that is of a high manufacturing standard.

L-O-L. How about PS1 and PS2? You think PS4 will be cutting edge now that we've known Sony's financial situation for some time? Think again, kid.

 

[Averon]

It'd be a big lost for me if SCE goes under. I'd be far less interested in console gaming if they left. And, no, I don't like where either MS or Nintendo is going. Guess I would jump on the PC. But this talk is premature. Kaz will jettison the TV biz and other divisions before he touch SCE.

 

[bangai-o]

I won't put UC or GOW near Halo but GT i would .

i dont know what sells more with Unharted vs Gran Turismo but whe it comes to marketing and worldwide gaming recognition, there is Mario, Sonic, and Halo. The closest Sony use to have was Crash Bandicoot. Not the Uncharted guy.

 

[thuway]

L-O-L. How about PS1 and PS2? You think PS4 will be cutting edge now that we've known Sony's financial situation for some time? Think again, kid.

PS4 will be powerful enough when it launches. What the hell do you think the 1 Billion deficit is from? Sony is investing into R&D.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

L-O-L. How about PS1 and PS2? You think PS4 will be cutting edge now that we've known Sony's financial situation for some time? Think again, kid.

As I said before, it very well may. It would be an idiotic gamble, but given the Vita, the PS4 may just be their Spruce Goose mk II.

 

[KillerTravis]

i dont know what sells more with Unharted vs Gran Turismo but whe it comes to marketing and worldwide gaming recognition, there is Mario, Sonic, and Halo. The closest Sony use to have was Crash Bandicoot. Not the Uncharted guy.

Don't speak ill of Sully.

 

[dragonflys545]

It'd be a big lost for me if SCE goes under. I'd be far less interested in console gaming if they left. And, no, I don't like where either MS or Nintendo is going. Guess I'll jump on the PC. But this talk is premature. Kaz will jettison the TV biz and other divisions before he touch SCE.

Pretty much this. I applause at Sony for bringing in new IP's this late into the cycle.

 

[goldenpp72]

i dont know what sells more with Unharted vs Gran Turismo but whe it comes to marketing and worldwide gaming recognition, there is Mario, Sonic, and Halo. The closest Sony use to have was Crash Bandicoot. Not the Uncharted guy.

That's not entirely fair, halo has recently been obliterated as the FPS king by a much more generic series, Mario as a platformer icon has never been beaten, even at his worst selling point. Sonic is also relevant more in memory than he is today as a seller. I also don't think master chief to Halo fans is really any more memorable than drake to UC fans.

Uncharted may not be memorable for a mascot, but the series probably has a lot more IP power than sonic does, considering each uncharted seems to outsell any sonic release combined even if on 5 platforms.

 

[patsu]

Pretty much this. I applause at Sony for bringing in new IP's this late into the cycle.

^_^ I admire Sony's tenacity/stubbornness sometimes. Their SPU work and continual focus on core gaming is inspiring.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

i dont know what sells more with Unharted vs Gran Turismo but whe it comes to marketing and worldwide gaming recognition, there is Mario, Sonic, and Halo. The closest Sony use to have was Crash Bandicoot. Not the Uncharted guy.

Are you joking .
A series don't sell 66 million after 6 games and 2 demos if it does not have recognition.
GT series is one with the PS name most people that own a PS system at one point in time or the other know about GT.

 

[Taurus]

PS4 will be powerful enough when it launches. What the hell do you think the 1 Billion deficit is from? Sony is investing into R&D.

Powerful enough? Well, that's not same as cutting edge, is it?

R&D is a whole different story if you have to go for $499-599 route again. You seriously think it will happen again after how it went with PS3?

 

[TDLink]

Sony is definitely in a bit of a pickle. I hope they don't go under. I loved my PS1, PS2, PSP, and currently PS3 as well. The Vita Failure definitely doesn't help but I think factors outside of the gaming division are probably the primary cause for this. Of course, it will affect the gaming division nonetheless. I think they will be gambling hard on PS4 being a take off success since at this rate by time it comes out they will be even worse off. I really hope it is for their sakes. Losing Sony hardware would be a big blow to the industry.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

In terms of sales GT is probably bigger than Halo.

I dont know the sales really of any of those games I just know they arent up there with halo as a franchise.

Like gundam said GT maybe.But imo I would put it with halo.

 

[patsu]

Powerful enough? Well, that's not same as cutting edge, is it?

R&D is a whole different story if you have to go for $499-599 route again. You seriously think it will happen again after how it went with PS3?

Well, what happened this gen was a little bit special. They may still go for power, but this time rely less on one person's judgment. Less secrecy, more collaboration, smarter use of resources (No need to build fab), lesser boardroom fight, stay focused, etc.

There are a lot of things they can do differently compared to early this gen.

 

[Averon]

PS4 being a beefy machine doesn't mean they need to go $499 or $599 again.

 

[marc^o^]

PS4 being a beefy machine doesn't mean they need to go $499 or $599 again.

The more they wait to launch PS4, the less expensive components will be. I would not be surprised if they wait for end 2014 to release it, instead of 2013.

 

[bon]

Must be R&D for Wonderbook.

 

[iamshadowlark]

So do we have any kind of clarification for us english reading folk? Its early morning stateside right?

There is obviously an outlier here, this is almost like a PS3 level fiscal loss and they have only one major loss leading product(and its impact is minimal at best). And since when does SCE report individually?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I've always wondered about corporate accounting at really huge multinational companies. Sony has lost something like $15 billion in 4 years? How much money did they actually HAVE? At the level of the individual person, you can't lose more money than you actually have, because that's called bankruptcy. At the multinational corporate level, it seems to happen all the time and the company just seems to conjure up more money out of nowhere to lose.

 

[TDLink]

I've always wondered about corporate accounting at really huge multinational companies. Sony has lost something like $15 billion in 4 years? How much money did they actually HAVE? At the level of the individual person, you can't lose more money than you actually have, because that's called bankruptcy. At the multinational corporate level, it seems to happen all the time and the company just seems to conjure up more money out of nowhere to lose.

It's not conjured, they had built it up during years when the company was more profitable.

 

[GCX]

The more they wait to launch PS4, the less expensive components will be. I would not be surprised if they wait for end 2014 to release it, instead of 2013.

The more they wait, the harder the transition period between PS3 and PS4 will be. The losses of SCE will only grow if PS3 sales go flat and the next console isn't out yet. It'd be like Nintendo's current situation with Wii, but unlike Nintendo Sony can't expect to recoup some of the losses from handheld sales because that sector is operating at loss too.

 

[marc^o^]

The more they wait, the harder the transition period between PS3 and PS4 will be. The losses of SCE will only grow if PS3 sales go flat and the next console isn't out yet. It'd be like Nintendo's current situation with Wii, but unlike Nintendo Sony can't expect to recoup some of the losses from handheld sales because that sector is operating at loss too.

That's a plausible scenario, and they may not want to let MS a one year lead again. Then they will have to suffer a new heavy a loss, in order to offer a graphical leap at a mass market price. Dangerous game, they need to find a more clever business model than the one they had with PS3.

 

[iamshadowlark]

The more they wait, the harder the transition period between PS3 and PS4 will be. The losses of SCE will only grow if PS3 sales go flat and the next console isn't out yet. It'd be like Nintendo's current situation with Wii, but unlike Nintendo Sony can't expect to recoup some of the losses from handheld sales because that sector is operating at loss too.

Ever since PS3 turned profitable SCE has been making a profit on pretty much every major venture, which is why this loss doesn't make much since at its face. I would hardly say the losses will grow when we don't even know why these losses occured.

 

[kerrak]

I was trying to think what Sony brought to gaming with PS3...
...
Help me out. Games excluded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

 

[shinra-bansho]

So do we have any kind of clarification for us english reading folk? Its early morning stateside right?

There is obviously an outlier here, this is almost like a PS3 level fiscal loss and they have only one major loss leading product(and its impact is minimal at best). And since when does SCE report individually?

You can translate the PDF in google translate.

http://translate.google.co.nz/trans...626/20120626g00138/pdf/20120626g001380148.pdf

They attribute ~76B yen of the loss to SG&A costs and ~17B to taxes.

There isn't a separate line-item for R&D so perhaps that's being lumped in with SG&A?

 

[GCX]

Ever since PS3 turned profitable SCE has been making a profit on pretty much every major venture, which is why this loss doesn't make much since at its face. I would hardly say the losses will grow when we don't even know why these losses occured.

In any case it'd be terrible for Sony as a whole if PS3 sales died and PS4 was still 1-2 years off since the SCE is one of the only Sony branches that has managed to turn some actual profit. Sony's losses would only increase.

 

[speedpop]

A sobering report.

 

[Lord Error]

They attribute ~76B yen of the loss to SG&A costs and ~17B to taxes.

There isn't a separate line-item for R&D so perhaps that's being lumped in with SG&A?

I don't think R&D was ever reported in the SCE fiscal reports. It was always rolled with the R&D of the rest of the umbrella company. It's that much more puzzling if it's not in this report given that they were claiming they were profitable for the same year in another report.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't think R&D was ever reported in the SCE fiscal reports. It was always rolled with the R&D of the rest of the umbrella company. It's that much more puzzling if it's not in this report given that they were claiming they were profitable for the same year in another report.

I actually can't really fathom how SCE would have SG&A expenses close to US$1B.

For example the PSV marketing campaign was supposed to be their biggest ever at $50M.

 

[coldfoot]

Thought they bought sony ericsson whole for close to billion and rolled it in with sce?

 

[kittoo]

Man in my person opinion it will be a very sad day for gaming if Sony disappears. They have constantly made different kind of games, taking risks etc. For me they have produced the best games this generation. I will not be able to adapt to a future where only gimmicks and games like CoD or Kinect games succeed.

 

[jooey]

Thought they bought sony ericsson whole for close to billion and rolled it in with sce?

You thought wrong!

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I actually can't really fathom how SCE would have SG&A expenses close to US$1B.

For example the PSV marketing campaign was supposed to be their biggest ever at $50M.

yep that number seem huge for SG&A if it just SCE.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I actually can't really fathom how SCE would have SG&A expenses close to US$1B.

For example the PSV marketing campaign was supposed to be their biggest ever at $50M.

Yea its not really adding up.

 

[AzaK]

Man, and so many people still want them to build an arse bleedingly expensive console.

 

[Monty Mole]

Man in my person opinion it will be a very sad day for gaming if Sony disappears. They have constantly made different kind of games, taking risks etc. For me they have produced the best games this generation. I will not be able to adapt to a future where only gimmicks and games like CoD or Kinect games succeed.

It's as if XBLA doesn't exist, a platform for games with far more innovation than any upcoming first party retail releases from any of the big three.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Had a look back at their earnings release.

It is actually fathomable now - the corporation as a whole had SG&A costs of almost $17B in FY ended March 12.

Ridiculously bloated.

 

[specialguy]

PS4 will be powerful enough when it launches. What the hell do you think the 1 Billion deficit is from? Sony is investing into R&D.

R&D doesn't make something powerful though.

Take what rumors we have, it's supposedly a pitcairn class GPU, just upgrading that to Tahiti (or paying for the upgrade to 4GB RAM) would probably have a more tangible effect than pursuing some exotic memory tech. So, if they were spendin 1B, would arguably be better to spend it on subsidizing more powerful loss leading hardware based on existing tech.

Let others in the computer world do the R&D and pay for it, you just buy the finished product.

Also, let me be clear I do not believe Sony is engineering any exotic PS4 tech nor will it contain any. Just dealing in hypotheticals.

 

[see5harp]

Man in my person opinion it will be a very sad day for gaming if Sony disappears. They have constantly made different kind of games, taking risks etc. For me they have produced the best games this generation. I will not be able to adapt to a future where only gimmicks and games like CoD or Kinect games succeed.

Kinect games are selling so well!

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Had a look back at their earnings release.

It is actually fathomable now - the corporation as a whole had SG&A costs of almost $17B in FY ended March 12.

Ridiculously bloated.

That 1 billion for SG&A for SCE not looking so big now lol.
Really need to cut some fat .

 

[Speevy]

I hope Sony goes out with one hell of a bang.

Their consoles are terrific.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Had a look back at their earnings release.

It is actually fathomable now - the corporation as a whole had SG&A costs of almost $17B in FY ended March 12.

Ridiculously bloated.

I have no doubt that Sony overall can bleed money but this is specifically SCE. Look at the FY2006 report, they lost 1.9 billion and that was when PS3 was lossing like 300/400 a unit. Doesn't really make sense.

 

[Replicant]

Man in my person opinion it will be a very sad day for gaming if Sony disappears. They have constantly made different kind of games, taking risks etc. For me they have produced the best games this generation.

I feel the same way. I hope they figure out a way to get out of this funk and get their financial back to profit again. Mostly because I like their outputs and would hate to see them perished.