ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Finally, a console that the WiiU will be able to recieve up-ports from.
I'll buy one if they bring the games.
I'll buy one if they bring the games.
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Techcrunch Rumor: Amazon's console is powered by Snapdragon, presumably Adreno 330
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
R10Neymarfan
Member
More like down ports if the rumors will be true. And that would be sad to see a cheaper Aneroid console outperform the WiiU.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No way that happens.
ARM processors are cheap and the WiiU is very expensive for the graphical performance.
Edit:
ARM are also conservative with clockspeeds. In a bigger box you can make in run much hotter even with no fans. I know even less about GPU performance, but it is also increasing quickly.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Sent.
To.
Die.
To.
Die.
By this time next year, ARM SoCs are gonna be shitting on the WiiU from a great height. Hell I expect the GPU in this year's iPad refresh to match/beat the WiiU.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
My boner has subsided a bit but I'll still be interested if the price is right.
michaelius
Banned
For comparison the AMD A4-5000 has about 1/15 of the GPU power of a PS4.
Faster than GTX7800? So it will be close tp ps3/x360/wii u in power.
I can't believe people expected this to be a PS4/One competitor. A cursory glance at Amazon's past hardware makes it obvious that this thing will be inexpensive and Android powered. No one is going to attempt to compete with the big 3 these days. Not because they'd lose, but because there's no money in making a dedicated games console anymore.
The people who think a console needs to have the highest specs to compete are bonkers. Fun games can be had that don't take PS4's level of hardware. Everything from minecraft to last of us should be technically achievable on Amazon's machine, it likely could even push beyond last of us thanks to extra ram and modern shaders / higher polygon count than PS3 (which is 333 million) I don't think it will really be limited by power, and if Amazon really is creating their own game studios, they could come with some pretty impressive games and AAA developers are already putting bigger titles on android, look at deus ex and x-com.
Not saying it should be bought by everyone but it should have a market and possibly that market will extend to the core if the games are there... a hotline maimi could of easily came to a device like this, so the indie core should be there.
The benchmark posted just above adrodium's (above me) is from the tablet version using less than 5watts, a console version with a wattage limit much higher should perform a lot better.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
So if this device is $200 and it ships with a controller what exactly would you call it? It'd be too expensive to compete with Apple TV/Roku/Chromecast and yet it doesn't anywhere near the catalog of games that the PS3 and 360 have.
"The big 3"? Who's the third?
BRocknRolla
Member
Less interested now that I know the power behind it, but this likewise doesn't seem surprising. At least it will probably be cheap, and maybe fill the niche people hoped Ouya would. I'm still interested to see it when it comes out.
The thing that really intrigues me, is to see exactly what quality of games can be made for Android (and iOS for that matter).
I realize that in an environment where the technology is upgraded by leaps and bounds every few months it seems, it makes little sense to spend years, and millions of dollars, developing a console-quality game for mobile devices. But, if Amazon is developing their own titles, is it possible they will do just that? It's obvious that the components of the machine will be quite capable, even if not up to PS360 standards; but I'm excited to see just how capable the tech really is, if given a fair chance.
Basically, I'll be interested in an Amazon console if they're willing to put in a console-level effort into their games, rather than push out cheap, quick, casual-friendly games in a couple of months.
I realize that in an environment where the technology is upgraded by leaps and bounds every few months it seems, it makes little sense to spend years, and millions of dollars, developing a console-quality game for mobile devices. But, if Amazon is developing their own titles, is it possible they will do just that? It's obvious that the components of the machine will be quite capable, even if not up to PS360 standards; but I'm excited to see just how capable the tech really is, if given a fair chance.
Basically, I'll be interested in an Amazon console if they're willing to put in a console-level effort into their games, rather than push out cheap, quick, casual-friendly games in a couple of months.
MesserWolf
Member
So what would be the competitive advantage of this console over the already established players (Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony ) ?
the cost ? I doubt only this... console live off software and killer applications
the amazon environment ? sure. but again not enough
integration with other services making it a sort of appletv/console/mediacenter/streambox ..... I would say that this is the most probable.
Otherwise I really I would not see the point, why otherwise enter into the console market, which is a tough field highly competitive ?
Seems like every company is trying to come up with the new living room device "must have". Sony was already trying with the Ps3, microsoft is trying now with the Xbone, appletv same and all these smart tv are also trying somehow.
the cost ? I doubt only this... console live off software and killer applications
the amazon environment ? sure. but again not enough
integration with other services making it a sort of appletv/console/mediacenter/streambox ..... I would say that this is the most probable.
Otherwise I really I would not see the point, why otherwise enter into the console market, which is a tough field highly competitive ?
Seems like every company is trying to come up with the new living room device "must have". Sony was already trying with the Ps3, microsoft is trying now with the Xbone, appletv same and all these smart tv are also trying somehow.
For comparison the AMD A4-5000 has about 1/15 of the GPU power of a PS4.
It's amazing to think about where these SoCs could be in a few more years.
I think a lot of people are also forgetting that this will probably be their Amazon Prime/Netflix box.
Performance gains will slow down as the architectures are figured out (like with PC parts), but for the moment the gains are insane. The first iPhone felt fast back then with a 411Mhz ARM11, but now it is the slowest device in the world
Where are you getting $200 from? This will be $99, bet on that.
megamerican
Member
Sounds like an Ouya except it will probably be more restrictive in what you can actually do with the thing.
Depends on what your definition of "restrictive" is I suppose.
Apple.
I am cautiously optimistic about this. If it's just a method of playing mobile style games on your TV, I want no part of it. If they are wanting to build a legitimate console, like the big three, I'd be all over that.
Guessing it will be the former rather than the latter, though. Why has it been so long since another company has tried making a legitimate games console?
Guessing it will be the former rather than the latter, though. Why has it been so long since another company has tried making a legitimate games console?
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
What if it was Uncharted 2 with Tomb Raider 2-style graphics? Would you still feel the same way or would you enter a paradox?
I sometimes wonder if some gamers are equating "smartphone style" with the game mechanics usually employed in those games, or simply them being less graphically intensive than a Crysis game. Says a lot about 'em, really.
Well they hired Valve bigwig Tom Leonard and have three first party studios, so I feel they intend to take this seriously.
"Smartphone style", to me, means lower production value, and usually shallower mechanics. I think the 3DS is proof that gamers are willing to forsake amazing graphics in favor of gameplay.
And it says a lot about you if you're implying that someone who puts stock into graphics technology and enjoys a game pushing the envelope and delivering a beautiful experience is less than a true gamer.
Because "legitimate" games consoles have not been profitable.
I've posted financial reports on GAF quite frequently, but the general picture that the FRs of companies like EA, Sony, Ubisoft, and Take 2 draw is: "legitimate" games aren't very profitable anymore. As such, very few companies are eager to get in to a market that isn't very profitable in the first place. This concept can be applied broadly in any industry -- if there is a lot of profit to be made, then companies will be competing intensely for the market. If there is very little profit (or even aggregate losses), then you will see very few new entrants to a market or even see consolidation and contraction. The "legitimate" video game industry is seeing the latter, not the former.
A lot of posters seem to be missing the idea that if Android was on more than just smartphones and tablets, it may have games that are made for things besides smartphones and tablets. At this point, yeah, it's mostly home to shitty mobile games. However, if Amazon and Google are interested in making it a gaming platform then they definitely have the funds to make it happen. At the end of the day it's just an OS, and it can handle whatever genre/style a developer wishes. Assuming that because it only has mobile games on it now means that it will only have mobile games when/if it's in a large number of living rooms is silly.
Manmademan
Member
not at all. The vita is portable with an integrated OLED screen, (this doesn't really look like it will be), the vita has the advantage of being a single target platform (if amazon treats this like it's kindle line, it won't be), and the vita is set up to stream PS4 games anywhere with a wifi connection.
to put this in perspective, it took a good long while for smartphone games to pass what the PSP was capable of, even though smartphone hardware was superior on paper for a long time.
Refreshment.01
Member
Any projected unveil for this? Im mostly interested in the controller.
Regarding the mobile hardware powering the console, it would be funny as all hell if Amazon ends up delivering (hardware wise) what the Wii U should in the first place.
Regarding the mobile hardware powering the console, it would be funny as all hell if Amazon ends up delivering (hardware wise) what the Wii U should in the first place.
Manmademan
Member
Even if it is like the Kindle line, the baseline architecture starts at a higher level than the Vita. I don't think it took very long for smartphone games to surpass the PSP.
Manmademan
Member
the PSP launched in 2005. Smartphone games weren't really hitting the level of high end psp games until 2009-2010. Iphone caught up first, android took somewhat longer.
edit: this is N.O.V.A. from gameloft, launched in 2009.
so the chances of any one trying to compete with the HD twins is slim to none at this point? I feel only a few companies could afford to take a loss trying to gain marketshare like MS did with the first Xbox, not to mention the severe disadvantage they would be with first party offerings. MS has only been at this for 11 years and they are handily out numbered by sony and nintendo for internal development teams and they had some talent that did PC games back then. A new competitor would have to make a serious commitment to an industry that just isnt producing much profit to begin with.
The system isn't officially announced yet.
The App Store didn't even launch until July 2008. So you're saying it took them a year.
Absolutely, it's the combination of the two factors that's critical.
If the cost of entering the market were low or the profits were significant, you'd see increased competition. If it cost 5B+ (R&D on the hardware, investment in first parties, etc.) to enter a market but firms felt there was a chance for significant return on that huge initial investment, then some companies would be willing to enter.
But as it is, no one is willing to invest 5B+ to enter a market that is unlikely to produce significant profits even if you end up selling a lot of systems.
stop making sense.
Amazon wants to compete with Apple and be the new appstore but for android, not a gaming console.
Refreshment.01
Member
Don't want to derail much but i'll expand a bit...
If Nintendo was interested (as they say) in performance per watt, going with ARM and mobile type of hardware would have been a better proposition than what we got with the Wii U.
Some nice bonuses for going that route, like development familiarity, future proofing, breaching the gap (better say closing it) between console and handheld development. Plus the prospect of your home console hardware becoming your portable one years down the line are too good. The custom job they did with their old architecture, CPU wise, has not given then any benefits. Specially when we considere development of titles is behind schedule anyways and the MCM is rather expensive for the performance it offers.
Manmademan
Member
smartphones and smartphone games existed before the app store.
But taking a full year to two years (and I don't really see anything in 2009 that really passes the psp...doom resurrection is probably closest but even then..not quite) to pass games running on hardware 4 to 5 years older doesn't really disprove my point at all.
even if a platform launches with better specs than the vita this year, it will take several years, and several hardware iterations, for games to catch up.
if Amazon brings out something that is WiiU/PS3 level for $99 that sits under your TV and streams instant video and plays games that look great - that *is* competition for the PS4 and Xbox one.
It's the bad kind - the kind that says 'hey, these graphics look ok. Do those graphics on the PS4 really look like they're worth $300 more than this cute little box?'
it could be very disrupted based solely on price.
oh, and then if Amazon do that, how far behind will Apple be with revamping AppleTV and putting the app store on there?
So why would people buy that and not a PS3 or 360 which will assuredly have a much bigger library? price?
Manmademan
Member
disagree. It's competition for the PS3 and 360. no one ready to hand over $400-500, and looking for the performance of a PS4 or Xbox One is going to be satisfied with something "around the level of a PS3 or WiiU." you might as well say it's competition for PC gaming.
as for the appeal of "a box that sits under the tv and streams video and plays games" there are already 160 million of those in homes right now. They're called the PS3 and Xbox 360. You can even throw the wii in there, for people who truly do not care that much about graphics, and smart tvs, for those who don't care about games at all. There's even that $35 google thing that plugs into a laptop or whatever to stream video.
At this point, "streaming instant video" isn't much of a draw. just about EVERYTHING streams instant video. Amazon is going to have to come out with something a lot more attractive to take market share.
Refreshment.01
Member
Is not that you'll put up a phone CPU in a console box and be done with it, we are not talking about miliwatts here. ARM could cook up something for Nintendo in their performance range with better w/p ratio.
Or worse, a market that requires billions to sacrifice just to set your feet in, as our buddies at MS so deerly know.
Not just the amazon device, the Wii U is having a hard time with that too. XD
Manmademan
Member
This at least i agree with.
Amazon needs to convince people to pick up a console at about the capability level of a PS3 or 360, when just about everyone has one already.
Those consoles can already stream video, and have far larger libraries. In addition, most smartphone games can already be played on tablets and smartphones that people already own.
sure, amazon will have exclusives- but I wouldn't bet any amount of money that those exclusives will stack up well next to PS360 exclusive titles.
this is a very strange device. i'm not sure where amazon can really position it to gain any kind of mainstream success with it.
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