Mithos
Member
Until there is an official number on how many games will activate the block, refunds do not exist in my mind.
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The Witness is being heavily pirated. J. Blow says piracy could impact his future.
- Thread starter Raylan
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Until there is an official number on how many games will activate the block, refunds do not exist in my mind.
digitalrelic
Banned
But the supposed "reasons" for piracy have been refuted time and time again. As has been pointed out several times in this thread alone, all of the "reasons" for piracy are essentially just bullshit excuses to steal. So yes, anyone trying to give these "reasons" legitimacy are indeed defending piracy IMO.
RowdyReverb
Member
I guess this is why mid-tier games died out. People see games as either small indie projects or big AAA releases and can't resist categorizing every new game into one of these. This dichotomy makes it so that indie developers will be afraid to try and push the boundaries of what independent studios are capable of producing.
Already Torn
Banned
Let's just keep being surprised when people pirate games then and not do anything else. Criminals!
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Not me. All I have is a notebook I won at my company Christmas party two years ago. Only PC we have in the house.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Coffee Dog
Banned
The indie scene is huge, yes, but a $40 game is most definitely unusual. If AAA games only cost $20 more, yes, most consumers are going to go for that widely appealing product over the low budget puzzler (a rather uncommon type of game, especially for that price point). Is that their fault, for choosing the safety net over the product that carries more risk? You could say so. But the truth is that people will choose it.
This. This. This.
I think I understand how Blow is feeling. It must hurt to see people play for free what you spent years of time and money on. At the same time there are some valid points being made in this thread.
It's a tricky situation: the ideals of art clashing with the economic realities. I wonder if this game would've benefited from a pay-what-you-want model, with a suggested price of 40 bucks.
It's a tricky situation: the ideals of art clashing with the economic realities. I wonder if this game would've benefited from a pay-what-you-want model, with a suggested price of 40 bucks.
Maintenance
Member
If this is not a lame troll attempt then the irony is amazing.
The size and scope are essential to the work that he made though. Asking him to pair down the size would have a significant impact on the games quality.
Rain City Gamer
Member
johntown
Banned
No one could possibly know the answer to that question. However, I would have to say that most if not all the people who pirated the game would not buy it if it was not available for free.
Some people just pirate stuff out of habit, some people truly cannot afford it and there are some who can afford it but don't want to pay. Studies in piracy in general (with movies etc.) have shown time and time again that if no piracy existed these people would not turn into paying customers.
Jacksinthe
Banned
"Niche appeal"... but on top of the pirate charts. Blame the dev, not the pirates.
Jesus Christ this thread amazes me on so many levels.
GatticusFinch
Member
Or are posting on this forum from work. TIME THIEF!
Yea I can't really imagine the game as something smaller. The individual puzzles are pretty meh, immensity of the game is what makes it work.
Not only that, but Blow's comments are hardly worrisome. It's more along the lines of being appreciative that people are playing and interested in the game, but if they like it and want more in the future to consider paying for it. And then he moved on. This whole thread is 95% folks talking above the actual tweets the article ran with and just arguing about piracy, price or projecting opinions without considering the source.
Coffee Dog
Banned
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Of course it's impossible to get any official figures, but I would venture a guess that The Witness is pirated less (by percentage of sales) than Braid was.
Digital marketplaces on PC have moved forward dramatically since 2009 when Braid was released. Digital storefronts like Steam and GOG have positioned themselves as a low cost alternative to piracy that offers a myriad of features to the end user. I know people that used to pirate everything they played that now own hundreds of games on Steam because of the convenience and features it offers.
As for the price, most games released around this time of year will see a 25%-50% discount during the Summer Sale, and I imagine that the game will be much more attractive to some people at that price point.
Digital marketplaces on PC have moved forward dramatically since 2009 when Braid was released. Digital storefronts like Steam and GOG have positioned themselves as a low cost alternative to piracy that offers a myriad of features to the end user. I know people that used to pirate everything they played that now own hundreds of games on Steam because of the convenience and features it offers.
As for the price, most games released around this time of year will see a 25%-50% discount during the Summer Sale, and I imagine that the game will be much more attractive to some people at that price point.
Movalpolos
Banned
Well put.
Condemn it? Boo, piracy is bad. Problem solved?
I mean it isn't like there are actionable steps that history has proven to stem the tide of piracy.
I'm not sure who you're talking to, if anybody in particular, but it's not like this thread has the sentiment of "piracy is ok". More "piracy should be expected - particularly when the price of the content is high and security is low".
Coffee Dog
Banned
PC gaming is doing better than it has in years, factually.
Already Torn
Banned
And we all know time is money right? Think of how much content you could fit into the time you post on GAF. Fucking scumbags.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
honestly not to sound aggressive but i was merely stating a fact that there are benefits to having a game on steam. that includes community (content, friends/list), having the game forever in an official format and capacity with other games, ultimately supporting the developer of a game you enjoy, etc.
do all pirates buy a game when it's on sale after pirating it? no. are all pirated copies a lost sale? no. do some pirates purchase a game legally (through steam in this case) when it's on sale, even after pirating it before in the past? yes. you can look at the pure numbers behind how many copies were pirated and how many copies were sold during a sale and reasonably come to that conclusion. literally almost any game that has been made for pc in the last few years supports this notion
no, it's dead. music is dead. movies are dead. ebooks are dead.
johntown
Banned
It's called living in reality. I didn't condone piracy or anything but just think his comments about it are out of touch with reality.
The lengths some people are going to in this thread to attack piracy without thinking about any of the nuances of the situation in such a roundabout, Trump-like, "KEEP ALL MUSLIMS OUT BECAUSE ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS" way is disgusting.
Weird how you can make something sound infinitely more offensive if you just kinda fart out whatever comes to mind, isn't it?
Nobody is advocating piracy, nobody is defending piracy. Understanding why something happens is the way you combat something--not attacking people with vitriol and bile.
u mad?
Pirates generally pirate because... "because fuck y'll, that's why".
I'm not endorsing piracy in any way, I just don't think that piracy really affect how much a game would sell anyway.
It's bad that there are people having fun thanks to a dev hard work without paying, but a stupid DRM that make legit buyers having trouble to play your game is worst, because it makes you look bad at your legit consumers.
tallbroski
Member
I don't get his point, almost every game out there is pirated. its been said before that most people who pirate were never going to buy the product anyway. Look at these games with Denuvo protection, it is not going to increase their sales.
Piracy can be a positive thing, if people liked the product chances are that they would buy it eventually.
Piracy can be a positive thing, if people liked the product chances are that they would buy it eventually.
GlamFM
Banned
The witness is not low budget. Blow blew all his money on it and than some.
This assumption that Indie means cheap and low budget needs to stop.
Indie just means it was independently funded.
Lanrutcon
Member
The race card. Nice. Stay classy.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Very much this. The amount of mental gymnastics being done by some to try to make it sound like pirating is justified is staggering.
Yeah it's a risk move not to release on PC for a small indie dev I don't deny that. But if your game is so good that people are really want to play it then they have to buy it on consoles cuz there is no other option (especially for digital only games). On the other hand it means much much lower sales overall. When I check the german PSN The Witness has now 763 rates so if you are generous you can say that only 1000 copies were sold in Germany on PSN (not everybody rates their games). That's probably far cry from what the PC version sold in Germany (I guess 10x as much). So yeah no real win win situation.
Netherscourge
Banned
Is 200K sales good? Probably. But 350K sales would be even better.
I can't stand it when gamers act like they deserve a free sample of something to the point where they are justifying privacy. And I really can't stand it when pirates think they can "bully crowd-source" the definition of a successful game.
FUCK PIRATES. You are the problem.
I can't stand it when gamers act like they deserve a free sample of something to the point where they are justifying privacy. And I really can't stand it when pirates think they can "bully crowd-source" the definition of a successful game.
FUCK PIRATES. You are the problem.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
40 dollars was definitely a bit too steep of a price when you consider how the demand for pure puzzle games just doesn't seem to be there really. Because the witness is exactly that, it's a pure puzzle game.
That's not to say the game isn't incredible, there are tons of total head scratchers, and you will obsess over puzzles you can't solve and some of them are insanely well put together.
But the game has no overarching narrative really.
The game has lots of dead end puzzles that are just kind of there and don't seem to do anything in the world besides exist to be solved and then forgotten as they don't tie into anything.
And most importantly (this isn't necessarily a bad thing) most of the rewards for solving a puzzle in the game are either more puzzles or just the satisfaction of solving a puzzle.
Occasionally you unlock a shortcut but that's the most tangible reward you get.
You don't get shiny new equipment, you don't get cool dialogue or story as a reward, you're not rewarded with some visual spectacle or changing scenery, you don't really even unlock new areas (just more progress in the current one) as you can go almost anywhere at any time.
Because of those things it really does feel like a 40 dollar puzzle book, and that's something I feel most people other than puzzle game aficionados aren't exactly willing to drop 40 dollars on no matter how excellently designed it is.
On top of that the talos principle (another 40 dollar puzzle game) has been out for a little over a year and has sold about 450k copies on steam. Which is what i'm guessing the witness is gonna hit after a year with a few sales and stuff.
Basically if you ask me, the witness is doing exactly as well as anyone should have expected it to do regardless of pirates or not.
That's not to say the game isn't incredible, there are tons of total head scratchers, and you will obsess over puzzles you can't solve and some of them are insanely well put together.
But the game has no overarching narrative really.
The game has lots of dead end puzzles that are just kind of there and don't seem to do anything in the world besides exist to be solved and then forgotten as they don't tie into anything.
And most importantly (this isn't necessarily a bad thing) most of the rewards for solving a puzzle in the game are either more puzzles or just the satisfaction of solving a puzzle.
Occasionally you unlock a shortcut but that's the most tangible reward you get.
You don't get shiny new equipment, you don't get cool dialogue or story as a reward, you're not rewarded with some visual spectacle or changing scenery, you don't really even unlock new areas (just more progress in the current one) as you can go almost anywhere at any time.
Because of those things it really does feel like a 40 dollar puzzle book, and that's something I feel most people other than puzzle game aficionados aren't exactly willing to drop 40 dollars on no matter how excellently designed it is.
On top of that the talos principle (another 40 dollar puzzle game) has been out for a little over a year and has sold about 450k copies on steam. Which is what i'm guessing the witness is gonna hit after a year with a few sales and stuff.
Basically if you ask me, the witness is doing exactly as well as anyone should have expected it to do regardless of pirates or not.
Fbh
Member
I doubt this has to do with the price.
Lots of people would still be downloading this if it was priced at $20.
I think it's more of a combination of very good reviews + niche genre. Pirates want to try the game that got lots of 10's and 9's but don't want to pay for a puzzle game.
Also, what's with people jumping to defend pirates? Sure, 1 copy pirated isn't the same as one lost sale. But some comments here are bordering on the "victimless crime!" logic that's just as wrong
Lots of people would still be downloading this if it was priced at $20.
I think it's more of a combination of very good reviews + niche genre. Pirates want to try the game that got lots of 10's and 9's but don't want to pay for a puzzle game.
Also, what's with people jumping to defend pirates? Sure, 1 copy pirated isn't the same as one lost sale. But some comments here are bordering on the "victimless crime!" logic that's just as wrong
Icedburden
Member
In what way? Pirating is shitty.
If you can't afford it, wait to play until you can. I'll never understand the people who defend stealing someone else's work.
Coffee Dog
Banned
hey guys remember when hotline miami didn't take off because they helped pirates get the game running on their computers
it sure is a shame people stopped talking about the game right then and it never made an impression on any of the people that played it
it sure is a shame people stopped talking about the game right then and it never made an impression on any of the people that played it
MotionBlue
Member
I haven't played The Witness yet, for me the price point is the biggest issue. 40 dollars is expensive for an unknown quantity.
I really would love to see this. The self righteousness might settle down.
I really would love to see this. The self righteousness might settle down.
From what I understand, the final product is far beyond what his initial plans for the game were.
Any new game that gets released is going to be "top of the pirate charts" the week it comes out. That line means nothing to me. Everyone who pirates would not have necessarily bought it anyway. Everyone who pirates it isn't even necessarily PLAYING it. The topic of the thread could be "The Witness only sells 30k on Steam" and my point would be the same. When developing and funding a game you have to consider how many sales you're going to get back. I think Blow overestimated things a bit. Puzzle games don't exactly light the sales chart on fire, full price or not.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Coffee Dog
Banned
compared to AAA, $60 titles the Witness is incredibly low budget. Those games cost many many millions to make.
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