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The Witness is being heavily pirated. J. Blow says piracy could impact his future.
- Thread starter Raylan
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Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
I hope it gains more traction, I'm just holding out until my exams are over which is in 2 weeks then I'll get.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Jesus fucking Christ.
"Its an indie game, brehs. Better to be safe than sorry. We must treat developers differently based on whether or not they had a pub! Especially them small teams - little weasels making games trying to make a living. Better pirate that shit just to be sure!"
The piracy defense is maddening.
CosmicQueso
Member
Generally, pirated copies and sold copies correlate pretty well. Piracy rate also correlates to consumer interest. So The Witness has that going for it, I guess.
Why did you refund the game? You clearly thought it was worth the price when you bought it.
Are you some kind of cheap fuckwad?
YuriLowell
Member
Pirates gonna pirate I guess.
SunBroDave
Member
Sad (but not surprising) that such a thing is happening to such a fantastic game. The Witness is easily worth the asking price, and in fact really has more going on than many $60 games released today.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Agreed. Especially with Steam prices being as low as they are after a couple months and not even taking key selling sites into account. The original comment was just a little too generalizing.
I'm not denying that the possibility exists that some people who have pirated the game will later buy it on sale. But do we actually have any data on how big this group of people is?
Let's take The Witness at $40 retail... when it's on sale for $30, what percentage of people who pirated the game will then buy it? What about $20... or $10? Is there any actual data on this? If not, should people who make games count on it?
Furthermore, why are they buying a game they've pirated even after they've played their fill? Is there a group buying it to support the game, or out of guilt that they enjoyed a game they got for free?
Sometimes there are online modes that can't be accessed in a pirated copy... but in The Witness' case, there's no online mode so nothing's blocked, so the idea of purchasing the game to get the "full experience" doesn't exist.
Edit: Benefits of having it on Steam are... achievements, and a single place to launch all your games? I don't really see that as a huge factor... but maybe I'm missing something.
digitalrelic
Banned
Are you kidding me? Now you're going with this argument? There's a reason it's called "playing games".
Just because your game is flopping doesn't mean you should blame piracy.
Games like Undertale sold a million copies on steam because it was priced @10$. 40$ is borderline AAA territory. Very few non AAA games charging that much become successful on Steam. The select few usually have a strong pc following and/or rpgesque kickstarter type of stuff.
20$ has become the new 15$ in the past year or so on steam. That has somewhat been accepted by gamers. Jumping all the way to 40$ is not a great idea for an indie dev. You are just playing with fire. The consumer will always decide the direction of the market. If PC gamers aren't willing to pay 40$ for your game then its not worth 40$. That is just how it works. And the same goes for console, handhelds etc.
Devs who bring up piracy as an excuse are out of touch with pc gaming and just looking for anything to blame but themselves.
Games like Undertale sold a million copies on steam because it was priced @10$. 40$ is borderline AAA territory. Very few non AAA games charging that much become successful on Steam. The select few usually have a strong pc following and/or rpgesque kickstarter type of stuff.
20$ has become the new 15$ in the past year or so on steam. That has somewhat been accepted by gamers. Jumping all the way to 40$ is not a great idea for an indie dev. You are just playing with fire. The consumer will always decide the direction of the market. If PC gamers aren't willing to pay 40$ for your game then its not worth 40$. That is just how it works. And the same goes for console, handhelds etc.
Devs who bring up piracy as an excuse are out of touch with pc gaming and just looking for anything to blame but themselves.
SkylineRKR
Member
Lots of pirates wouldn't have bought a game anyway.
piracy is a complicated issue and i'm not convinced it actually linearly translates into lost revenue, but complaints about the game's price are truly ridic imo
guy spends 8 years of his life crafting one of the most incredible puzzle games ever made, and probably one of the most thoughtful, deep gaming experiences ~period~ in any genre, people complain $40 is too high because "indie titles." goddamn the internet is depressing some times
guy spends 8 years of his life crafting one of the most incredible puzzle games ever made, and probably one of the most thoughtful, deep gaming experiences ~period~ in any genre, people complain $40 is too high because "indie titles." goddamn the internet is depressing some times
Movalpolos
Banned
Well go ahead and list the benefits and why pirates would buy the game after stealing it.
We are on a discussion board so go ahead and discuss instead of dismissing everything with a one-liner.
MMaRsu
Banned
Hey Im all for a physical product and the rights and positives it brings. But I realise if this was a retail product shipping and all those costs might drive the game to 60.
I happily paid 36.99 for it, its totally worth it imo. Amazing game
YianGaruga
Banned
He just tweeted. Look how devastated he is!
http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2013/03/20/piracy-does-not-hurt-digital-music-sales-e-u-study/
Not necessarily. It's music, but the data still has the potential to be a valid way to draw a conclusion for other digital products.
Thanks for ignoring the context, buddy! I was speaking to his specific instance of, "If you can't afford it, just watch it on twitch!"
LegendofLex
Member
Ignoring the idea that this attitude should lead people to pirate... (which I don't agree with)
There's much less risk involved in making a purchase when you have preexisting knowledge (and ideally firsthand experience) of the general reputation for quality ascribed a franchise/publisher/developer. I don't think it's unreasonable to say of an indie publisher "I don't know that I'm comfortable paying what I pay for other games I'm much more comfortable with for your game."
You can't say that type of thing. $40 might be worth much, much more to some people.
That said, if that's the case, then a person probably shouldn't be spending that money on a video game. If you can't afford a product, you don't get the product. It's as simple as that.
Mithos
Member
And after doing this an "undisclosed" number of times Valve will lock your account from ever doing a refund again.
Steam refunds are NOT demos!
RowdyReverb
Member
It's feels so much worse when an indie dev has their work pirated. At least the major releases are from mostly faceless publishers. This guy is personally sitting there browsing TPB and watching people take his hard work for free, essentially saying that it has no monetary value in their opinion. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be
It's really ugly.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Saying that people have an aversion to smaller games isn't piracy defense, it's reality of the current market.
I'm not making excuses for piracy. I'm just trying to stop you from spreading misinformation before you have Steam users here get in trouble for treating refunds as demos.
If you "demo" every game before you buy them, Valve will count that as abuse.
How is it staying exclusive to the PS4 going to make it have more sales? Like, I'm DYING to know how you came upon that conclusion.
digitalrelic
Banned
He just tweeted. Look how devastated he is!
Obviously he's going to be optimistic. It's not a good PR move to bitch about people stealing your game.
Already Torn
Banned
Being able to download it easily anywhere at any time without worrying
Cloud saves
Achievements
Community features
You liked the game and want to support the developer
Weird OCD things like wanting all of your digital games in the same placd
Yes they are, and playing a game for an hour and returning it because you don't like it is one of the suggested reasons for getting a refund according to valve.
Or is this a joke post mocking other people?
Extra Sauce
Member
Interesting choice of words.
OverturePT
Member
Yes, somewhat popular games get heavily pirated. If even with a PS4 version, PC piracy could impact his future maybe he shouldn't have invested that much into it, maybe adjust the price a little bit (it's not really the most popular genre out there, a lot of people will pirate it to see if it's their kind of game, even more with that price), who knows. I'm not saying it's 100% his fault but maybe he had some expectations that were a bit too much and yes, piracy obviously makes a dent but it can't be the answer to, and/or hold responsible, for everything.
arts&crafts
Member
Actually I didnt, it was because it was being removed from steam on January 1st and I wanted it.
Clearly you are a steam refunder.
MMaRsu
Banned
Just because the team is small, the game is huge, the cost should still be low because indie dev?
Lol cmon man. Use your noggin.
Do you really need demos these days with the power of the internet?
Don't get me wrong I would love all games to have demos as having options as a consumer it is great but I don't think they are vital by any means.
We have the luxuries of multiple preview, reviews, full lets plays, user impressions for 100s/1000s of players, tech reviews, performance threads, user reviews, official game forums all within 48 hours of release of a game.
Now they obviously can't compare to actually playing the game but its pretty damn close especially in the case of The Witness. Watching 2-3 episodes of a lets play and that should tell you everything you need to know about the game. Hell watching the first trailer tells you almost everything about the game
Don't get me wrong I would love all games to have demos as having options as a consumer it is great but I don't think they are vital by any means.
We have the luxuries of multiple preview, reviews, full lets plays, user impressions for 100s/1000s of players, tech reviews, performance threads, user reviews, official game forums all within 48 hours of release of a game.
Now they obviously can't compare to actually playing the game but its pretty damn close especially in the case of The Witness. Watching 2-3 episodes of a lets play and that should tell you everything you need to know about the game. Hell watching the first trailer tells you almost everything about the game
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Also makes people a little curious how they can steal the game.
johntown
Banned
What does he think is going to happen to a popular game? I find the comment a little greedy that he claims piracy could impact his future. I don't condone game piracy but I just checked a major torrent site and there are barely 2,000 people downloading the game. Not that 2,000 is insignificant but his comments seem petty and out of touch.
Most people who download would never pay anyway so I don't see how it could impact his future.
IMO he needs a reality check that piracy happens in PC gaming and gaming in general.
Most people who download would never pay anyway so I don't see how it could impact his future.
IMO he needs a reality check that piracy happens in PC gaming and gaming in general.
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
Why should I care if he spent 8 years making the game?
The problem here is that, even with the amazing reviews it got, the creator has not convinced enough of us to buy his game for $40. That's on him, not us or the pirates.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Then that whole PCMR crowd would have bitched about it being held back by consoles or some nonsense.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Asking him to be happy that people actually wants to play his games, which he's actually doing.
It's $40 for a completely unknown quantity that the creator and most reviews strongly urge people to not watch and instead try for themselves. That's completely aside from the fact that the great majority of those people wouldn't have paid anything for it at all and probably won't even play much of it.
That and there's the fact that it's still a top seller on Steam.
That and there's the fact that it's still a top seller on Steam.
Miles Quaritch
Member
He just tweeted. Look how devastated he is!
I think it's wise not to take anything Blow says at face value. Dude has a history of overreacting.
Let's just wait to see what the actual numbers say and not what Blow perceives to be rampant piracy.
Justifying piracy by saying that The Witness' price is "too high" is just reprehensible.
First of all, now that I'm ~10 hours into The Witness with a massive amount of stuff left to do, no, it's not "too expensive". It completely justifies its own price.
Maybe it's too expensive for you. That doesn't mean it's not worth its price. Stop pretending like you're so fucking entitled to have every developer personally meet your own budget.
Second of all, it misses the wider point that assholes would pirate the game anyway, regardless of price.
Historically it was "we're pirating because of DRM!!!" Oops. There's a DRM-free version of The Witness.
Then it was "we're pirating because big companies don't care about us!!" Oops. This is a tiny indie team that worked their asses off for 8 years to bring you one of the most brilliant puzzle games ever.
Then it was "we're pirating because the PC version was shit and we want to send a message!!" Oops. Seems like the PC version of The Witness is fine.
Then it was "we're pirating because I have no idea if it'll work on my PC!!!" Oops. Steam offers no-questions-asked refunds for less than two hours of gameplay.
Stop making fucking excuses and start condemning it without qualification. Otherwise you're part of the problem.
First of all, now that I'm ~10 hours into The Witness with a massive amount of stuff left to do, no, it's not "too expensive". It completely justifies its own price.
Maybe it's too expensive for you. That doesn't mean it's not worth its price. Stop pretending like you're so fucking entitled to have every developer personally meet your own budget.
Second of all, it misses the wider point that assholes would pirate the game anyway, regardless of price.
Historically it was "we're pirating because of DRM!!!" Oops. There's a DRM-free version of The Witness.
Then it was "we're pirating because big companies don't care about us!!" Oops. This is a tiny indie team that worked their asses off for 8 years to bring you one of the most brilliant puzzle games ever.
Then it was "we're pirating because the PC version was shit and we want to send a message!!" Oops. Seems like the PC version of The Witness is fine.
Then it was "we're pirating because I have no idea if it'll work on my PC!!!" Oops. Steam offers no-questions-asked refunds for less than two hours of gameplay.
Stop making fucking excuses and start condemning it without qualification. Otherwise you're part of the problem.
GatticusFinch
Member
Did any of The Witness Let's Play or previews reveal that the game made people vomit? If not, I'd say yes, yes we do.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
http://store.steampowered.com/about/
but look at the music and movie industry, they are almost completely dead. and the pc market is next /s
Lanrutcon
Member
We haven't had a nice big piracy debate in months (I think).
It's still early days for the thread though. There haven't been nearly enough first worlders angrily exclaiming that $40 is nothing, and that the dirty dirty thieves should get a job.
I'm happy that he just made an incredible game that is by far worth the money for people who likes puzzle games.He just tweeted. Look how devastated he is!
Hoping his next game will be equally as good.
Jacksinthe
Banned
At what fucking point will people like this fucking poster stop holding an indie dev's feet to the fire over pricing?
When is a game not a fucking game and simply a metric for pricing based on how the game was developed and by what team?
What does it matter who makes the game or where the funding came from? This whole "well its indie" excuse has got to go.
I've seen FAR more movement and progression from indie developers in content and enjoyment than I have from AAA developers who give you half-cooked pasta sprinkled with fucking Ragu and sell it to you for a premium 5-star price than I have indie developers tried to rake people for their money by overcharging.
I've actually only done it twice when it first came out mostly because I'm lazy.
I'm not going to blame anyone for doing it though. Getting a game and having it suck (in terms of performance or just not what you were expecting) is why it service exists.
So are you just burying your head in the sand on purpose? Or what?
You're asking a guy to be happy about wide-spread theft of his product because it shows "people want to play."
This isn't even worth mocking further. Its transparently stupid.
Coffee Dog
Banned
why do people constantly equate explaining why a game was pirated to defending said piracy
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