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[Jims]

If people cannot see the difference, then there is no hope. The title is just flamebait fanboy rubbish.

Note, at this time of year, when every tom dick and harry likes to get clicks with their GOTY or 10 best of list, we maybe just have to suffer it.

This is dumb. You realize that pretty much every media outlet writes everything like this Time article, right? The assumption when you're reading a title like, "Xenoblade X is the best RPG" from Time that you're reading, "[Time thinks] Xenoblade X is the best RPG." Of course it's implied that the opinion is from Time. It's stupid to have to preface every statement with, "I think." Sure, that kind of sentence wording is often used in one-on-one conversations among people (like on message boards) to personalize arguments, but for large media and publication organizations, it gets kind of redundant.

If the Washington Post is writing an article about Donald Trump and they write, "Trump should do this-and-this-and-this," they don't need to write, "We think Trump should do this." The "we think" is implied.

If people are too dumb and/or salty to understand that Time is stating an opinion, so be it.

 

[Orayn]

Stating a game is the best they have ever played or saying its a great game is valid opinion, they can also say its the best game THEY have ever played.

However, there is a line which is, its objectively better than other games or RPG's which is just drivel and N4G nonsense.

I dont know what about the phase below is a balanced subjective remark



What more can I say, simple use of English would suffice, something like



If people cannot see the difference, then there is no hope. The title is just flamebait fanboy rubbish.

Note, at this time of year, when every tom dick and harry likes to get clicks with their GOTY or 10 best of list, we maybe just have to suffer it.

Where is this magical objectivity line drawn?

Would you be saying the same thing if this article concluded Witcher 3 was "the best RPG of 2015," or do you believe that there's some way to prove it is objectively better?

 

[ninjablade]

You're going to need to explain this one in a bit more detail. Are you saying TIME's completely reasonable opinion is fanboyish?

he's very keen on making the wiiu look better the xb1/ps4, he has a tech article about X, saying wiiu shouldn't be doing these graphics, and its doing things xb1/ps4 haven't done, i presume since it was a tech article, he's saying its pushing tech we haven't seen on xb1/ps4 which is laughable.

http://time.com/4145991/xenoblade-chronicles-x-wii-u/

 

[EatinOlives]

That's a funny way of spelling Witcher 3

 

[Yoshi]

Something just irritates me when someone calls an RPG grindy. You can't call an RPG 'grindy'. It's like calling a FPS 'shooty'.

I will personally never understand people who play RPG's and do not like to use their character in battles, or exploration, outside mandated 'story' elements (aka grinding.) If you like the combat system, then you will like "grinding". If you like the world, you will like "grinding". If you hate the combat system, or hate the world design, then that's what you hate.

You have to achieved certain things in XCX to qualify to push the main story forward. Complaining about not qualifying for an affinity mission XCX is like not qualifiying for a social link rank 10 activity in P4 without having to "grind" ranks 1-9 first. No one does the latter, so to me, the former is equally as ridiculous.

An RPG is ideally more than just fighting (or the fighting is very strategic and does not even allow for grinding). I enjoy the fighting systems of Fire Emblem PoR, Mario & Luigi 5 and Lufia 2, to varying degrees (Fire Emblem and Mario & Luigi 5 have incredibly engaging figjhting systems, Lufia's is classic but fun), but I don't like grinding in either. Luckily, the only one that requires any grinding is Lufia and that's only in the beginning.

The difference between fighting in itself and grinding is: You must fight to progress, but you do it to be able to progress through a mission, not to get a statistic value up. When you are grinding, you do redundant fighting in order to make the game easier or to reach a guarding level requirement. Xenoblade's weak fighting system requires both. But of course, yes, grinding weighs more heavily, when the fighting system is weak. Xenoblade's fighting system is complicated, but not very strategic, fights take a lot of time and there is quite a small window in which you can actually have a meaningful fight, a lot of enemies are either way too strong and kill you either way, or way to weak and you can lay your GamePad asides and still easily win.

 

[Portugeezer]

Too bad not enough people own a Wii U to refute their point.

 

[Riki]

No way in hell I'd like it more than Wild Hunt, but I'm keen to pick it up and get into it after the Christmas break. Pretty certain I'll be bummed with some of the changes over Xenoblade, which I loved. Just hope I don't end up putting it down due to XP grind walls. Because most of the time I fucking hate that shit and I'm not interested in enduring 50 - 100 of MMO RPG quest design and grinding.

As long as you're smart (and level up your skills and arts) you'll be destroying groups of enemies will over your level with ease.

 

[commish]

Stating a game is the best they have ever played or saying its a great game is valid opinion, they can also say its the best game THEY have ever played.

However, there is a line which is, its objectively better than other games or RPG's which is just drivel and N4G nonsense.

I dont know what about the phase below is a balanced subjective remark



What more can I say, simple use of English would suffice, something like



If people cannot see the difference, then there is no hope. The title is just flamebait fanboy rubbish.

Note, at this time of year, when every tom dick and harry likes to get clicks with their GOTY or 10 best of list, we maybe just have to suffer it.

Is this for real?

Anyway sounds like this game is pretty good. Wish I had a wii U now to play it.

 

[Chaos17]

Hey guys TIME praised a Nintendo game.

This shall not stand.

And that's just the opinion of one tester, lol
I hope he won't receive any threats -.-'

 

[Riki]

And that's just the opinion of one tester, lol
I hope he won't receive any threats -.-'

He liked a Nintendo game. Of course he will.

 

[geordiemp]

Where is this magical objectivity line drawn?

Would you be saying the same thing if this article concluded Witcher 3 was "the best RPG of 2015," or do you believe that there's some way to prove it is objectively better?

Yes I say the same thing when someone says the witcher 3 is THE best RPG, or Fallout 4. Its MY best RPG is the way to say it.

Yeah, like what happened with Splatoon. I saw a familiar name here who were also complaining at Splatoon award. I think he just hate it that Nintendo Kiddy games are getting recognition :lol

Again, saying Splatoon is a great game and a fantastic shooter in your opinion is fine, however, some posters getting carried away saying Call of duty is dying and other shooters should be worried is again fanboy drivel.

Why is it that some gamers just have to say the game they like is da best. I like COD Bo3, it probably sells 20 million, its my favourite shooter my a mile, and looking at sales numbers and active players maybe I am not alone, BUT I dont claim any superiority over any other genres or games.

The real question is why do some people do it ?

##Also recognition ; Nobody cares outside of forums like this what gets what vote for GOTY. Last year I enjoyed playing Dragon age Inquisition, I did not care who voted for what, it makes no difference at all. Sometimes I think these organisations just spread the awards ....

 

[OniBarubary]

I actually think the best jRPG (well, SRPG really) of the year was Stella Glow...

...I like Xenoblade Chronicles X too tho...

 

[Patapwn]

He liked a Nintendo game. Of course he will.

It must be rough going through life as such a victim

 

[Riki]

It must be rough going through life as such a victim

Considering people in this thread can't event accept the opinion that a WiiU game can be someone's favorite...

 

[WanderingWind]

Something just irritates me when someone calls an RPG grindy. You can't call an RPG 'grindy'. It's like calling a FPS 'shooty'.

I will personally never understand people who play RPG's and do not like to use their character in battles, or exploration, outside mandated 'story' elements (aka grinding.) If you like the combat system, then you will like "grinding". If you like the world, you will like "grinding". If you hate the combat system, or hate the world design, then that's what you hate.

You have to achieved certain things in XCX to qualify to push the main story forward. Complaining about not qualifying for an affinity mission XCX is like not qualifiying for a social link rank 10 activity in P4 without having to "grind" ranks 1-9 first. No one does the latter, so to me, the former is equally as ridiculous.

That's a pretty terrible comparison. RPGs encompass so much more than their battle system. And there is a vast difference between having to gain levels to be able to survive in advanced areas of the game and having to go farm mobs that only spawn at night in certain, unspecified regions for rare drops to continue the story. People can sit here and lie through their teeth as much as they want, it won't change facts or anything. I don't get why fans can't just say "yeah, that's a thing, but I like/don't mind/don't think it's a big deal."

Or how you can't start a chapter unless you've done specific side missions. Or how your party members don't gain levels when not being used, necessitating either grinding them up to par if a chapter forces you to use them, spending time keeping everybody leveled up or ignoring the vast majority of the cast for most of the game. Or the fact that enemies exist at levels higher than you'll be able to reach. Or how level 60 tyrants sit in the same zones as level 5 cupcakes. Or how missions will require you to go to a certain area and run around and pick up randomly appearing items until you've gotten X amount.

Again, fanboys, chill out and realize that accurately describing a game is not an indictment, or as the irritated person above puts it a "complaint." All of the above things can be seen in different ways by different people. I'm not saying these are bad, or there aren't ways to mitigate them, but they exist. Hell, clearly a lot of people enjoy the setup and are fond of calling the systems and mechanics unique. You can't have it both ways people, it can't be a unique or interesting setup and it not existing.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I stated up til 3am playing it this morning. Game is all kinds of fun. I didn't play enough RPGs this year to call it the best though. But its a good time for sure.

 

[The Artisan]

isn't bloodborne an rpg?

 

[geordiemp]

Considering people in this thread can't event accept the opinion that a WiiU game can be someone's favorite...

I am 100 % in agreement that X can be a favourite, and even a game of the generation for some, no arguments there at all. There is maybe 100,000 people who think its their fav game of 2015.

And ?

The title is written to flame console warz and its just sad drivel.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Stating a game is the best they have ever played or saying its a great game is valid opinion, they can also say its the best game THEY have ever played.

However, there is a line which is, its objectively better than other games or RPG's which is just drivel and N4G nonsense.

I dont know what about the phase below is a balanced subjective remark



What more can I say, simple use of English would suffice, something like



If people cannot see the difference, then there is no hope. The title is just flamebait fanboy rubbish.

Note, at this time of year, when every tom dick and harry likes to get clicks with their GOTY or 10 best of list, we maybe just have to suffer it.

Ok, so you expanded on what you meant and it basically amounts to arguing semantics, which is silly. You're essentially saying that any "The Best Games of 2015!" list is fanboyish, due to it not being named "My Personal Favorite Games of 2015!".

 

[Amir0x]

This is dumb. You realize that pretty much every media outlet writes everything like this Time article, right? The assumption when you're reading a title like, "Xenoblade X is the best RPG" from Time that you're reading, "[Time thinks] Xenoblade X is the best RPG." Of course it's implied that the opinion is from Time. It's stupid to have to preface every statement with, "I think." Sure, that kind of sentence wording is often used in one-on-one conversations among people (like on message boards) to personalize arguments, but for large media and publication organizations, it gets kind of redundant.

If the Washington Post is writing an article about Donald Trump and they write, "Trump should do this-and-this-and-this," they don't need to write, "We think Trump should do this." The "we think" is implied.

If people are too dumb and/or salty to understand that Time is stating an opinion, so be it.

THANK YOU.

Goddamn so many years on GAF and we still have to have the "obviously someone doesn't have to write 'I think' or 'imo' every time they need to share their views on something subjective."

Kindergarten shit already. I have no clue how people deal with the real world with this level of sensitivity. I think Undertale demolishes Xenoblade as an RPG in 2015. But if I wrote "Undertale demolishes Xenoblade in 2015", it is implied I'm thinking it, not factualizing it.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Yes I say the same thing when someone says the witcher 3 is THE best RPG, or Fallout 4. Its MY best RPG is the way to say it.

This is bar none the stupidest thing I have read in some time. They are a magazine, they are not suppose to write so passively and timidly about something they like or feel strongly about. Its not a flaw in their language. You're just whining for no reason.

 

[-Horizon-]

I am 100 % in agreement that X can be a favourite, and even a game of the generation for some, no arguments there at all. There is maybe 100,000 people who think its their fav game of 2015.

And ?

The title is written to flame console warz and its just sad drivel.

How is this any different from other GOTY lists these publications put out?

You know that if this thread was titled "Time: The Best RPG of 2015 is Xenoblade Chronicles X" or "Time: My Favorite RPG of 2015 is XenoX" you'd still get Witcher 3 and Bloodborne were better game posts.

Is the default argument for everything that doesn't coincide with some one else's opinions "cuz of teh console warz!"

 

[OrbitalBeard]

THANK YOU.

Goddamn so many years on GAF and we still have to have the "obviously someone doesn't have to write 'I think' or 'imo' every time they need to share their views on something subjective."

Kindergarten shit already. I have no clue how people deal with the real world with this level of sensitivity. I think Undertale demolishes Xenoblade as an RPG in 2015. But if I wrote "Undertale demolishes Xenoblade in 2015", it is implied I'm thinking it, not factualizing it.

It seems the only people who have a real problem grasping this concept are those who are unable to accept differing opinions from their own. I can pretty much guarantee you if TIME had picked their favorite game, they wouldn't bat an eye or have anything to say about TIME's obvious subjective thoughts.

Requiring a publication to state "in my opinion" or an equivalent qualifier in every sentence is among the stupidest ideas imaginable.

 

[BakedTanooki]

Deserved. Xenoblade Chronicles X is pure magic and Video Game Love

 

[sörine]

he's very keen on making the wiiu look better the xb1/ps4, he has a tech article about X, saying wiiu shouldn't be doing these graphics, and its doing things xb1/ps4 haven't done, i presume since it was a tech article, he's saying its pushing tech we haven't seen on xb1/ps4 which is laughable.

http://time.com/4145991/xenoblade-chronicles-x-wii-u/

It's not a technical article at all. Did you even read it?

 

[Amir0x]

It seems the only people who have a real problem grasping this concept are those who are unable to accept differing opinions from their own. I can pretty much guarantee you if TIME had picked their favorite game, they wouldn't bat an eye or have anything to say about TIME's obvious subjective thoughts.

Oh of course. Then they'd be tut-tuting about how awesome their game of choice is and how the article is just confirmation of this while someone else took that person's place and complained that Xenoblade wasn't chosen as best RPG of 2015 and how dare they stir up the console wars by stating their opinion as fact!

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Oh of course. Then they'd be tut-tuting about how awesome their game of choice is and how the article is just confirmation of this while someone else took that person's place and complained that Xenoblade wasn't chosen as best RPG of 2015 and how dare they stir up the console wars by stating their opinion as fact!

lol pretty much. It's sad.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It seems the only people who have a real problem grasping this concept are those who are unable to accept differing opinions from their own. I can pretty much guarantee you if TIME had picked their favorite game, they wouldn't bat an eye or have anything to say about TIME's obvious subjective thoughts.

Requiring a publication to state "in my opinion" or an equivalent qualifier in every sentence is among the stupidest ideas imaginable.

Forums have a huge issue with this in general. When shit they like come under attack it's "but that's just your opinion man!1!1!".

It's so pathetic.

 

[Amir0x]

lol pretty much. It's sad.

Forums have a huge issue with this in general. When shit they like come under attack it's "but that's just your opinion man!1!1!".

It's so pathetic.

Yup. I especially love the "you can't say that game is shit to you because it got good reviews" commentators. These people genuinely have no clue. Life must be truly painful when you're that sensitive to views different than your own. And the people who say good sales proves the game is good and thus above criticism.

 

[ninjablade]

It's not a technical article at all. Did you even read it?

he has a video about it.

 

[SavoyPrime]

Apparently he didn't spend any time with The Witcher 3...

 

[Despera]

Okay now that we've clarified how opinions work, we have another problem:

People hung up on whether or not a Role Playing Game is RPG enough.

 

[Diffense]

I stated up til 3am playing it this morning. Game is all kinds of fun. I didn't play enough RPGs this year to call it the best though. But its a good time for sure.

I know someone who did this lol. if the game clicks for you, it's a whole lot of fun. If you're not "above average intelligence", stay on earth and die. [j/k from the survival guides]

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Apparently he didn't spend any time with The Witcher 3...

There are plenty of people on this very forum who have played both and prefer Xenoblade.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I know someone that did this lol. if the game clicks for you, it's a whole lot of fun. If you're not "above average intelligence", stay on earth and die. [j/k from the survival guides]

It has a very different design from XBC, I like some of it more and some of it less but overall about 30 hours in its definitelya solid game.

You sorta have to like to explore and not be afraid of dying to really enjoy it. With no death penalty the only big issue is just having to trace your tracks again. Its not for everyone.

 

[ViolentP]

The ones defending this decision are as bad as those attacking it. What the fuck happened to simply discussing a decision knowing full well it was based on opinion?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

The ones defending this decision are as bad as those attacking it. What the fuck happened to simply discussing a decision knowing full well it was based on opinion?

I don't think so. I'll defend anyone;'s opinion, so long as it's reasonable.

I have no actual opinion on this particular game, having not played it yet.

 

[ViolentP]

I don't think so. I'll defend anyone;'s opinion, so long as it's reasonable.

And how do you determine reasonable? You certainly didn't defend my decision to not jump into Smash Bros. because of the high costs to get the full experience. You actually tried to convince me that my decision wasn't a good one for me. So again, how do you determine what is reasonable?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

And how do you determine reasonable? You certainly didn't defend my decision to not jump into Smash Bros. because of the high costs to get the full experience. You actually tried to convince me that my decision wasn't a good one for me. So again, how do you determine what is reasonable?

Yikes. We had a different definition of "full experience" and I dropped that discussion because of it. Please don't bring up completely separate issues in this thread. If you have a problem with me, I'd be fine talking to you over a PM.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

Bloodborne robbed again guys.

Can we stop with this shit?

 

[thebisonxrc]

Why are people so angry

 

[Riki]

Why are people so angry

Opinions are bad.

 

[Dad]

Why are people so angry

Video games

 

[ViolentP]

Yikes.

It's a simple question.

Fact is, by defending the opinion of this publications decision by pointing fingers at those who are against it, you don't realize that you are adding fuel to the same fire they are. Time made their choice, and we should all be able to discuss it without getting upset. But somehow we have those that choose to shit on the review, and those who choose to shit on those people.

Yikes. We had a different definition of "full experience" and I dropped that discussion because of it. Please don't bring up completely separate issues in this thread. If you have a problem with me, I'd be fine talking to you over a PM.

I have absolutely no problem with you. If I have offended, my apologies. Not my intention. But if we seriously want to kill the habit of those being unable to respect what we enjoy, we need to let them fizzle out. By calling them ignorant (in which many cases they are), we only justify their action. It's a bad defense is all.

 

[-Horizon-]

Video games

were a mistake, its nothing but trash.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

It's a simple question.

Fact is, by defending the opinion of this publications decision by pointing fingers at those who are against it, you don't realize that you are adding fuel to the same fire they are. Time made their choice, and we should all be able to discuss it without getting upset. But somehow we have those that choose to shit on the review, and those who choose to shit on those people.

People who are unable to accept differing opinions deserve to be called out. It's one thing to disagree. That happens all the time and is completely understandable. It's another to attempt to discredit someone's views or claim they're being dishonest by not saying "in my opinon" at every opportunity.

 

[ViolentP]

People who are unable to accept differing opinions deserve to be called out.

At first glance, it seems right. But think about the audience you are calling out and what you would truly expect the result to be. Do you believe it would be veered in the right direction, or would it simply keep the cycle moving?

That happens all the time and is completely understandable. It's another to attempt to discredit someone's views or claim they're being dishonest by not saying "in my opinon" at every opportunity.

I completely agree with you. Question is, how do you effectively diffuse those without rationale?

 

[Diffense]

It has a very different design from XBC, I like some of it more and some of it less but overall about 30 hours in its definitelya solid game.

You sorta have to like to explore and not be afraid of dying to really enjoy it. With no death penalty the only big issue is just having to trace your tracks again. Its not for everyone.

It is a more challenging game than Xenoblade for sure and the main narrative is a lot less dominating. That combination will throw some people off if they consider the story scenes payoff for RPG gameplay/work. If Monolithsft's future title has the gameplay improvements from X and a more personal or traditional RPG story like Xenoblade I think they'll cover all bases in terms of appeal.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it and I even like the atmosphere created by the story and setting. To me, it's a nice change of pace from being the one true hero whose destinty it is to save the world.

 

[DNAbro]

Something just irritates me when someone calls an RPG grindy. You can't call an RPG 'grindy'. It's like calling a FPS 'shooty'.

I will personally never understand people who play RPG's and do not like to use their character in battles, or exploration, outside mandated 'story' elements (aka grinding.) If you like the combat system, then you will like "grinding". If you like the world, you will like "grinding". If you hate the combat system, or hate the world design, then that's what you hate.

You have to achieved certain things in XCX to qualify to push the main story forward. Complaining about not qualifying for an affinity mission XCX is like not qualifiying for a social link rank 10 activity in P4 without having to "grind" ranks 1-9 first. No one does the latter, so to me, the former is equally as ridiculous.

This is a silly statement. "Grindy" can easily be considered a flaw. I consider any time a game tells me to do something I don't want to do in order to do something I do want to do a huge problem.

For example, the original Xenoblade Chronicles. I'm currently stuck on a boss. I guess I'm under leveled. I asked for advice on what to do and was told to do side quests or just grind up. I don't find the exploration or combat system near fun enough to even bother with that. I honestly wish I could just cheat the game and put myself at an appropriate level.

Not every RPG has this problem. Witcher 3 wasn't grindy. Nor Bloodborne , Fallout 4 or Undertale. I find the need for a grind a design problem. This is just my opinion though and obviously people can disagree.

 

[ChetWilson]

The difference between fighting in itself and grinding is: You must fight to progress, but you do it to be able to progress through a mission, not to get a statistic value up. When you are grinding, you do redundant fighting in order to make the game easier or to reach a guarding level requirement. Xenoblade's weak fighting system requires both. But of course, yes, grinding weighs more heavily, when the fighting system is weak. Xenoblade's fighting system is complicated, but not very strategic, fights take a lot of time and there is quite a small window in which you can actually have a meaningful fight, a lot of enemies are either way too strong and kill you either way, or way to weak and you can lay your GamePad asides and still easily win.

An important element of an RPG is to 'build' your character, which is done via fighting multiple encounters. Whether it's the same fight, or different fights, there is no difference that makes one a grind and one not.

I don't see how Xenoblade's fighting system is weak. You have two combat modes (land/skell), a flexible skill/art system, multiple statistics/armor/mods with virtually no caps (allowing for tons of insane min/max combos), a stagger/topple/bind system, resist/power debuffs galore, etc. How exactly is it "weak"?

I think too many of you are blaming the compromises the game had to make for it's open world as somehow completely unavoidable. In a linear experience, you can lock a mission in the 5th city that players literally can't get to until they've done the entire 4 areas before it. You can't do that in an 'open' world, so they limited access via requirements. In a linear experience, you can control the flow of xp to characters so they don't outlevel the story encounters. In an open world, it's harder w/o employing Oblivion-esque cheese.