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TLOU PRO Patch 1.08 - Supersampling removed from all modes [Up: New DF video]
- Thread starter Jacob4815
- Start date
Removing supersampling from the 30 fps mode is very disappointing. Stupid actually. At least I have the choice to delete the game from my HDD. Very consumer orientated approach ND. Taking away the biggest benefit for a lot of Pro users in that mode.
Nobody asked for this shit move. Why not let the player decide what mode he prefers?
Nobody asked for this shit move. Why not let the player decide what mode he prefers?
chromatic9
Member
For 4k 30 downsample yes it could be a bug but the update on the PlayStation page is clearly talking about the 1800p 60fps target will no longer downsample for 1080p users so that's intentional. I hope 4k30 fps removal is not intentional, that would just be crazy.
I suppose cynically it does make you think of getting a UHD TV though
geordiemp
Member
Its not exactly an issue when you give a user 2 or 3 binary choices and is better than PC where you may have 3 or 4 screens of technical options.
Got to admit, I would choose the 60 fps option every time and I play on a 4k panny. I have always just wanted 1080p60 locked on console for games so more is greedy.
Maybe they could of squeezed out a 1440p 60 compromise that locked 60....... but I wish all old games had patches so we cannot complain
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I think I will wait for Digital Foundry to confirm whats going on with this patch. It wasn't too long ago people were overreacting about a Battlefield 1 Pro patch, saying it was running and looking worse after the patch and that turned out to be false.
If the super sampling has been removed, its a shame but the game still looked good at 1080p, so its not like the game is suddenly unplayable or anything and if its a solid 60fps, that's a good thing.
If the super sampling has been removed, its a shame but the game still looked good at 1080p, so its not like the game is suddenly unplayable or anything and if its a solid 60fps, that's a good thing.
On the one hand I feel like this is 100% ND's fault. Numerous games that look and run better on PRO are testament to that. This is basically ND using a mini gun to kill a mosquito.
On the other hand I feel like it raises a big issue about the role that sites like DF have in the industry right now. The problem is, they analyse in such depth, deliberately going out of their way to hammer games at the most stressful points, then they say a game "has frame drops" and "it's disappointing that it can't hold it's target frame rate". Even if those drops are brief and only occur in absurdly stressful moments.
They use equipment which analyses things that most people simply wouldn't spot and then make it into a big deal. They're similar to those people like Totalbiscuit who claim that 60 FPS is barely enough to make a game playable (he even once did an MP video where he excused himself for not doing as well as he would normally because "aiming at 30 FPS is totally impossible", which is utter rubbish). The trouble is, they have a huge readership now, and those people are very loud and militant. So a game which suffers from 1-2 FPS drops in busy scenes now "has a dreadful framerate" according to forum narrative. The hyperbole that sites like this use is damaging the industry in my opinion.
On the other hand I feel like it raises a big issue about the role that sites like DF have in the industry right now. The problem is, they analyse in such depth, deliberately going out of their way to hammer games at the most stressful points, then they say a game "has frame drops" and "it's disappointing that it can't hold it's target frame rate". Even if those drops are brief and only occur in absurdly stressful moments.
They use equipment which analyses things that most people simply wouldn't spot and then make it into a big deal. They're similar to those people like Totalbiscuit who claim that 60 FPS is barely enough to make a game playable (he even once did an MP video where he excused himself for not doing as well as he would normally because "aiming at 30 FPS is totally impossible", which is utter rubbish). The trouble is, they have a huge readership now, and those people are very loud and militant. So a game which suffers from 1-2 FPS drops in busy scenes now "has a dreadful framerate" according to forum narrative. The hyperbole that sites like this use is damaging the industry in my opinion.
Bl@de
Member
So the Pro features were removed alltogether for 1080p owners? 1080p in both and a toggle for 30/60 is a weird choice. Why not 1080p/60fps and Downsampling@30fps? What's the point of the 30fps mode now?
That is not the point.
I and many bought a Pro for supersampling and the huge boost in image quality. The game looked so much better than native 1080p. Again, the exaggerated bullshit about 4 frames dropping in taxing areas in 60 fps mode leading to a decision like this from the dev gives me the feeling that ND lack any self confidence. Removing it from the 30 fps mode is again moronic.
Thanks a lot, people who complain about video games. If it weren't for your complaining about a 0.1 frames drop that happens maybe twice in this video game, none of this would have happened. If you weren't all so busy screaming "Please Naughty Dog, please remove the graphical enhancements from the 30fps mode. I can't bear to see all these pixels!" they never would have tried to improve it and we'd still have a video game that was mostly better than the base PS4 game for normal people who aren't basement dwelling frame whores with body pillows that have the Digital Foundry logo printed on them.
Thanks to you guys I had to sell my PS4 Pro and use that money to buy a base PS4 so I can play without this horribly broken patch. I hope you're happy.
Thanks to you guys I had to sell my PS4 Pro and use that money to buy a base PS4 so I can play without this horribly broken patch. I hope you're happy.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I hope this is not going to spread to other games in the future... a lot more muted PS4 Pro enhancements to make sure there is not even one single case in 40 hours of game plays where the frame rate goes even 0.5 FPS below the PS4 equivalent else Digital Foundry will make a "oh my God games are SLOW on PS4!!!!" headline which will be repeated by very very concerned posters which own both Xbox One and PS4... sigh... :/.
Harmondale
Member
The day when the minority voice was louder than the majority, a real shame
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I cannot believe they took it off in the 30 FPS mode too... what the..???? What is the point of the 30 FPS mode when you have HQ shadow in both modes now? I wanted to play in that mode for the highest quality possible and now on PS4 Pro I can either play in 4K if I buy a new TV or I get zilch? C'mon supersampling in 1080p was one of the selling points for the console for me.
Daffy Duck
Member
Which is kind of funny considering people herald Naughty Dog as gods when it comes to PS4 games and being able to get every ounce of performance from the system.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I guess they have better projects to work on and believe their games look good enough already... maybe they are just taking what the PS4 Pro was heralded as... a 4K machine so beyond allowing 4K a better experience, not a lot of interest is there to make life that much better for 1080p users. Maybe they have data or are convinced that there are few 1080p users with a PS4 Pro.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The frame pacing discussions were pretty huge too...
Backfoggen
Banned
Yea, it's fucked up that DF broke into the Naughty Dog offices and compiled a 1080p patch while no one was watching. I hope ND can recover from this accident. My thoughts are with them.
The key here is not having drops in framerate which look distracting.
This.
I would always choose 60 fps over IQ, but there should really be an option to select what ever your preference might be.
No, see, by mentioning they didn't like some aspect of this game, Digital Foundry and their framer gaters have literally forced Naughty Dog to do this, against their will.
I understand that was likely a reaction to people's frustrations over the frame rate issues that the game was having on the PS4 Pro. However, I thought the game looked absolutely incredible when it was supersampled pre-1.08 on my 1080p set. I ask, humbly, that ND give us the option to toggle it on or off. When I tried TLoU on my Pro, it singlehandedly justified my decision to purchase the system. I want 1800p supersampling with a target of 60 fps on my 1080p set back. Please, ND, give us the power to choose.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No, it just reminds me of why iterative consoles are a business model that is bad for consumers and only goof for the HW manufacturer if they can get people to buy into it... a proper PS5 would have had no problem giving supersampling and 60 FPS.
The key here is giving me an option on how to make use of my more powerful system...
Gen.Grievous
Member
Don't blame the messenger.
It's pretty obvious Naughty Dog doesn't want to put a lot of time into the pro modes for their older games. Otherwise why completely butcher the downsample option instead of optimising it? It's perfectly reasonable that devs rather focus on new games though. People however have come to expect nothing but the best from ND so this is slightly disappointing.
They will do that when your request becomes talking point of a hundred news articles and podcasts around the world. DF did its damage. Enjoy perfect 60fps.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It was 60 FPS, it may have dropped a frame or two in very rare circumstances... not nearly a big issue c'mon
.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Personally I didn't mind the frame drops either, like you say, it really wasn't bad and its a shame for 1080p owners but I have a 4k TV and have been playing at native 4k/30fps because even in 60fps mode, the shadows still had pretty obvious jaggies compared to the much better shadows in native 4k mode.
Solid Shammy
Banned
I apologise if this hasn't been mentioned already, but this has been driving me insane for ages now. The 30fps doesn't have better shadows, in fact the shadows are downright broken in this mode and they have been since release. Every patch that has came out for this game I have hopped on in hopes of the broken shadows being fixed. Today I read that they removed supersampling from the 1080p version and upgraded the shadows to the quality of the 30fps mode, I thought surely this issue would have been resolved. But no, everyone is stuck with the broken shadows on 1080p displays now, even at 60fps, and not a single damn person in the world seems to notice. It wasn't even mentioned in the apparent in-depth analysis of the Pro version by Digital Foundry, in which they actually recommended the 30fps mode over 60 with the higher shadow quality being a bonus. Sure the shadows do look cleaner at 30fps, but half of them are missing. Half of Joel's damn body shadow is missing in the 30fps mode, plus numerous shadows just not being rendered properly. It boggles my mind that barely anyone has noticed this, not even Naughty Dog apparently since they haven't patched this.
60fps mode:
http://imgur.com/WM7QJXb
30fps mode:
http://imgur.com/4EM4jh4
The pics weren't showing up for me so I uploaded them to imgur, should work now, please everyone have a look at this. It's disappointing that such a great game like The Last of Us is visually broken with people on the Pro with 1080p sets. I've checked on my Pro, and at 1080p everyone is stuck with the horrible unfinished shadows. Please Naughty Dog, fix this.
60fps mode:
http://imgur.com/WM7QJXb
30fps mode:
http://imgur.com/4EM4jh4
The pics weren't showing up for me so I uploaded them to imgur, should work now, please everyone have a look at this. It's disappointing that such a great game like The Last of Us is visually broken with people on the Pro with 1080p sets. I've checked on my Pro, and at 1080p everyone is stuck with the horrible unfinished shadows. Please Naughty Dog, fix this.
Shai-Tan
Banned
I wonder how much misinformation is here. First the previous high frame rate mode dropped into the 40s - not only a 2fps drop. If it was ideal you could choose whether you want that in addition to the toggle for 30fps but if you want better graphics you should be choosing 30fps anyway. The game runs fine in 30fps and is not particularly high paced enough for it to matter especially if you prefer stealth (in my opinion).
So what remains is
-that there may or may not be a bug in 30fps mode which affects the internal resolution the game is running in. Obviously it would be a bug if it weren't running in the higher resolution.
-whether people in 1080p still have the ability to supersample. If you can select 30fps the answer should be yes, unless there is a bug
-what that dude says in the post right above mine about shadows
So what remains is
-that there may or may not be a bug in 30fps mode which affects the internal resolution the game is running in. Obviously it would be a bug if it weren't running in the higher resolution.
-whether people in 1080p still have the ability to supersample. If you can select 30fps the answer should be yes, unless there is a bug
-what that dude says in the post right above mine about shadows
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Why? Not a lot of users... no exclusives allowed (not a new generation)... a marketing feature (4K support, check)... Kind of a small preview of the iterative/iPhone like consoles future people seems to scream of. MS and Sony would love that idea... better margins, no worries about reengineering existing models to make them cheaper (they just discontinue them after a while and sell you something new)... consumers? Not so much
.but what can we, the level headed mature gamer do about this?
Movalpolos
Banned
The 'blame' is only on the developer. You offer choices and toggles. It's a no-brainer but still astonishing that some developers don't get it or some console players are up in arms about the games having any gfx options.
When games get criticized about difficulty, the developers doesn't panic and force a single difficulty option; they provide several challenge settings.
When games get criticized about difficulty, the developers doesn't panic and force a single difficulty option; they provide several challenge settings.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I apologise if this hasn't been mentioned already, but this has been driving me insane for ages now. The 30fps doesn't have better shadows, in fact the shadows are downright broken in this mode and they have been since release. Every patch that has came out for this game I have hopped on in hopes of the broken shadows being fixed. Today I read that they removed supersampling from the 1080p version and upgraded the shadows to the quality of the 30fps mode, I thought surely this issue would have been resolved. But no, everyone is stuck with the broken shadows on 1080p displays now, even at 60fps, and not a single damn person in the world seems to notice. It wasn't even mentioned in the apparent in-depth analysis of the Pro version by Digital Foundry, in which they actually recommended the 30fps mode over 60 with the higher shadow quality being a bonus. Sure the shadows do look cleaner at 30fps, but half of them are missing. Half of Joel's damn body shadow is missing in the 30fps mode, plus numerous shadows just not being rendered properly. It boggles my mind that barely anyone has noticed this, not even Naughty Dog apparently since they haven't patched this.
60fps mode:
30fps mode:
Apologies if the pictures don't work, I used a website called Pasteboard in my hurry, but everything should hopefully work. Anyway, I've checked on my Pro, and at 1080p everyone is stuck with the horrible unfinished shadows. Please Naughty Dog, fix this.
I did not expect a first party developer to do this actually. I expect third parties to do token upgrades until the new model were to become the default model... I thought it would be third parties to start to show the inherent dangers of iterative consoles (that we seen on other products like iPhone for example).
Then again Sony gives them a lot of latitude (no way Nintendo would have accepted their first party teams to mostly snub / avoid a console like PS Vita helping its early demise... be one team and all) and beyond 4K there is little incentive to do anything for the new console given how marketing sells it as purely a 4K PS4.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Some developers, luckily only ND, seem to be taking the "PS 4 Pro == 4K PS4" to heart and stop once they get it running in 4K/4Kc mode.
Never ever complain about something you don't like in a video game, especially if it's something I don't care about.
In fact, you're better off just not expressing any opinions whatsoever. Someone might take something the wrong way and think their game isn't perfect, and when they screw everything up when trying to fix it it'll be entirely your fault.
I apologise if this hasn't been mentioned already, but this has been driving me insane for ages now. The 30fps doesn't have better shadows, in fact the shadows are downright broken in this mode and they have been since release. Every patch that has came out for this game I have hopped on in hopes of the broken shadows being fixed. Today I read that they removed supersampling from the 1080p version and upgraded the shadows to the quality of the 30fps mode, I thought surely this issue would have been resolved. But no, everyone is stuck with the broken shadows on 1080p displays now, even at 60fps, and not a single damn person in the world seems to notice. It wasn't even mentioned in the apparent in-depth analysis of the Pro version by Digital Foundry, in which they actually recommended the 30fps mode over 60 with the higher shadow quality being a bonus. Sure the shadows do look cleaner at 30fps, but half of them are missing. Half of Joel's damn body shadow is missing in the 30fps mode, plus numerous shadows just not being rendered properly. It boggles my mind that barely anyone has noticed this, not even Naughty Dog apparently since they haven't patched this.
60fps mode:
30fps mode:
Anyway, I've checked on my Pro, and at 1080p everyone is stuck with the horrible unfinished shadows. Please Naughty Dog, fix this.
I've never noticed because I've literally never spent more than 5 minutes in 30fps mode for TLOU since it feels simply awful.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Politely ask ND on social media what happened? Why supersampling is off for the 40 FPS mode?
Why are shadows broken on non 4K displays?
Being nice, respectful, and polite does not mean shutting up and accepting things as they are.
StrikeFirst117
Banned
So any reason why Naughty dog don't just add a setting to choose from to have supersampling? While saying in a tool tip that the game may run slightly under 60fps or 30 fps at times, that way no one can really complain then.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Bits N Pieces
Member
Sarcasm?