smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Little of both. Will only testify in public and probably wanted the weekend off.
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Trump Fires James Comey
- Thread starter whyamihere
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Little of both. Will only testify in public and probably wanted the weekend off.
SJurgenson
Banned
Important happenings, but the speed of politics has not increased at the same rate as the speed of news.
Watergate took a long time, and so will this. Let's not get too excited and lose sight of the bigger picture. It's not time to start celebrating yet.
Also, if by "FISA evidence", you mean the claim of FISA indictments coming -- that claim is moon-bat nonsense. That's not what a FISA court even does.
Inferno313
Banned
Cool, cool. Thanks for the update. Was offline for most of the weekend.
Thaedolus
Member
I obviously could be wrong but there's enough writing on the wall and the sources of this info have been right about enough things in advance of the MSM picking it up that I believe they're credible. Grand juries were called days in advance, FBI raid called in advance, etc.
Iit could take longer but I'm pretty convinced it'll be sooner than three months
Thaedolus
Member
The basis for the indictments via grand jury is evidence gathered via FISA warrants. The fact someone confused the terminology doesn't disprove the fact FISA evidence exists and is the basis for grand jury indictments
Can someone ELI5 regarding the existence of these "tapes" that Trump seems to have mistakenly revealed -- can he have had the recordings destroyed/deleted over the weekend and we'd never know if they existed?
I'm just asking because if it takes a while for someone in Congress to forcefully request them turned over, could they be long gone by then? How would we know if they ever existed?
I'm just asking because if it takes a while for someone in Congress to forcefully request them turned over, could they be long gone by then? How would we know if they ever existed?
BFIB
Member
As many in here have stated, its going to take the GOP to actually move on impeachment. Until that is done, you can throw evidence in the face of the party, and unless they budge, nothing will happen.
Obviously this is all building, and eventually the GOP will turn. I do believe they are wanting their list all checked before doing it, they just did not anticipate Trump going down this path this quickly. They are then going to impeach, and run on a party for mid-terms on that principle alone. That they "care" about this democracy so much, they are willing to impeach the President of their party, and start the distance game from Trump, while putting Pence on a pedestal.
SJurgenson
Banned
Hm. I did not know that a Federal pardon did not work for State charges. Interesting.
In that case, my bet would still be that post-Impeachment/resignation, any state charges would be dropped or plead down to a slap on the wrist -- otherwise it would all look so very petty going after him once he is out of office.
The only exception, I would think, would be for something like actual murder or something similar. Any near-political criminal actions would likely be viewed as 'resolved' once he is out of office.
Trump said there "might be tapes" on twitter but didn't exactly admit they exist. Comey is rumored to be happy if tapes exist people close to him have anonymously reported that he says it would help his explanation whatever that is... if Trump is taping then it is against federal law for tapes the president made to be destroyed but that probably wouldn't stop him IMHO. Tapes are supena-able by an official investigation (see the Nixon situation).
SJurgenson
Banned
OK. I'd believe that real indictments could exist against high-level Trump associates, but I still say any indictments against Trump directly are unlikely.
At best you'd get the same "Unindicted co-conspirator" trick used during Watergate.
The thing is, if you actually indicted a sitting President like that, you'd run the risk of the Supreme Court ruling that he cannot be indicted. They've already shown they are OK with the Unindicted co-conspirator angle, however. So it would be used again.
habithipster
Member
Please elaborate?
The most hard to believe thing is that it is very hard to prove a conspiracy. In particular you basically have to have an admission of guilt. And iif the Russians were working with the Trump campaign then you have to think that the Russian agents were smart enough to not get taped. The Russians involved would be trained spy types.
All this stuff could have been done without a direct conspiracy, and without any communication between the Trump campaign and Russia.
But it is all unprovable until it is proved so...
All this stuff could have been done without a direct conspiracy, and without any communication between the Trump campaign and Russia.
But it is all unprovable until it is proved so...
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Robdraggoo
Member
But i thought Ryan and pence were friendship bracelet brothers. Wouldn't he rather have him?
SuperEpicMan
Banned
His tax returns alone would probably be quite damning.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
If this were true, Flynn would still be around.
SJurgenson
Banned
Throughout all this, it is also important to keep in mind the difference between what is legally allowable, and politically allowable.
The 18-Minute Gap in the Watergate Tapes is a huge deal. If we found out Trump Tapes really existed, but were wholly erased -- it would be catastrophic political damage to Trump.
Legally? Sure. But he keeps damaging himself politically day by day. We still have a long road ahead, but it looks ever unlikelier that Trump can steer his presidency back on course.
Robdraggoo
Member
Andherewego.gif
not really. I don't want to be one of those "nothing will come of this" people but this is a Democrat proposing impeachment to a Republican controlled congress and is only citing the FBI investigation.
People keep bringing up the FBI raid called in advance by @TrueFactsStated, but I haven't found any evidence of that.
The first mention of it was from a local Baltimore TV news reporter at 1 PM on May 11. At 1:51 PM, @TrueFactsStated tweeted out that there were a "large number of Warrants... being executed" and that the Virginia FBI office looked like a "judicial Armada" filled with US marshals, FBI agents and dozens of vans at the ready. "The battle has been joined", he tweeted.
But then nothing else happened. It wasn't until 2:02 PM that he first mentioned the Annapolis raid specifically, a full hour after the initial news broke.
So not only did he not break the news of the actual FBI raid in Annapolis, he was wrong about the purported large number of raids that he implied were about to occur. And somehow, people are giving him credit for this reporting?
The first mention of it was from a local Baltimore TV news reporter at 1 PM on May 11. At 1:51 PM, @TrueFactsStated tweeted out that there were a "large number of Warrants... being executed" and that the Virginia FBI office looked like a "judicial Armada" filled with US marshals, FBI agents and dozens of vans at the ready. "The battle has been joined", he tweeted.
But then nothing else happened. It wasn't until 2:02 PM that he first mentioned the Annapolis raid specifically, a full hour after the initial news broke.
So not only did he not break the news of the actual FBI raid in Annapolis, he was wrong about the purported large number of raids that he implied were about to occur. And somehow, people are giving him credit for this reporting?
PandaPandaPanda
Member
wake me up when republican congressmen/women start saying/voting accordingly
nintendoman58
Member
One thing for them to call it. Sadly I don't think it will go anywhere coming from a Dem right now.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
That is why I put the Dem part. Don't want people to get excited.
More or less. As long GOP doesn't give a fuck nothing will actually happen.
Good. The conversation from the left needs to escalate beyond calls to take a further look and into calls for impeachment so that the conversation gets forced to discuss the potential of impeachment.
Forcing news talk shows to have conversations and segments like "why impeachment for the President is ridiculous!" still frames the discourse around the topic of impeaching the President.
Laevateinn
Member
Get the Fuck Out (of Office) is a good sequel to Let's Stay Together.
TheCochese
Banned
Not a Republican. People are so ready to jump at every little bit of "news."
Although the point is conceded above about simply forcing the conversation.
This is actually a good point. Properly introducing impeachment into the conversation is a good first step, even if it doesn't lead to much initially
Trump and the Republican politicians are too powerful as a whole. Trump going down will hurt the entire Republican party, and they can't have that. Even the one's coming out on record for the investigations have a history of paying lip service.
Beyond that, there are a large amount of people in the government who are actually loyal to him. How many can you think of from the top of your head that has obviously sabotaged the investigations on Russia? Now, imagine all of the ones doing it behind the scenes.
Also, I can't find the source at this moment, but apparently the amount of resources dedicated to the investigations is almost nothing compared what's needed.
These are my opinions based on what I've kept up with. I believe that the perspective against Trump is growing, and that ultimately something HUGE will happen, but there is also still a big chance that the Republican politicians won't let it happen.
FlutterPuffs
Member
well not yet. Still it's good dems are applying the pressure.
It's not gonna be easy. Chances are Trump can still last one or two years in WH, but everyone has to do their part if they want him to be off.
Robdraggoo
Member
Dems are pushing and not just talking. Its a start, it's all i meant.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Nope last time Comey spoke in public about an important issue. He went off.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ery-very-good-at-this/?utm_term=.4884b4fc1df4
SJurgenson
Banned
Yeah. We need to keep our focus and be patient.
Yeah. The Comey firing is serious enough to start taking about impeachment, but I feel we still need hard proof that he was fired because of the Russia Investigation.
It will take time to collect that evidence, hence why we cannot jump the gun right now.
I wish he hadn't gotten cute with the acronym. Makes it feel gimmicky after a very serious and clearly laid out case. Obviously this isn't going to change GOP minds, and the democrats a have to consider the partisan optics of this, but I sure hope that something they can't ignore comes out fo the FBI or IC fallout. They need the Nixon tapes to flip on Trump. 2018 is too far away and a lot of them think that they can keep this farce afloat for a long time before they have to turn on him. But I do think it's just a matter of time. Question is how much garbage legislation can they jam through in that period?
Didn't Trump more or less say it factored into the decision?
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Yes because it is a "made-up issue".
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Goddamnit this edit almost got me
Yep it's a very important step: you want to associate the current administration with the word impeachment.
You want people to immediately think "impeachment" when they think of the President, even if they don't want to impeach the President. The association is toxic, damaging, and undermines legitimacy (even if slightly) in someone's mind.
Also, if there ever becomes a serious push for impeachment, the population's already been primed to think this isn't totally crazy.
Wasn't it up in the 90s when his Presidency started?
These are actually terrible numbers at this point in his presidency.
Bush was about 10% higher, and where did he end up by the end of 2006? Trump has benefitted from having nothing controversial happen that is not his own damn fault.
TheCochese
Banned
Impeach Trump Now (ITN) just isn't a catchy acronym.
Now, we start talking about Operation President Pence...that might just catch on.
Now, we start talking about Operation President Pence...that might just catch on.
Yeah you know me
KernelPanic
Member
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