Fourth Storm
Member
This is it. The age of mature AAA titles on Nintendo platforms is officially over. They're not coming back next gen either.
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Ubi - "Wii U owners don't buy AC", Watch_Dogs their last M-rated WiiU release.
- Thread starter Mushroomer25
- Start date
Probably because that audience has no reason to get a new system to replace their Wii.
Also one million units is now considered bad? This industry has bigger problems than the Wii U if that's the case.
It certainly is by Nintendo standards. And I don't think DKCTF is anywhere near 1 million units, probably closer to 500k. I was merely making an example. It's very possible that it never hits 1 million LTD.
I don't agree at all, that list of games spans 17 years and it just seems like an incredibly weak effort.
I see two N64 games made by Rare and two GCN games made by Silicon Knights, both of which Nintendo stopped working with. Then there's Geist, the only reason Nintendo published that is because they picked it up for dirt cheap from a shovelware developer and there was basically no financial risk there. The same looks true for Devil's Third. The rest of those titles were never even localized - Nintendo knew they were such niche games that it wouldn't be worthwhile.
I don't consider that a serious effort.
This is of course the one (and possibly only) point. The thing that we need to be scratching our head about is why the major third parties aren't really targeting families (Skylanders and Just Dance perhaps notwithstanding, though these are purely for kids/tweens). Surely these companies want to still exist ten years from now.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
The situation would be better. But it still wouldn't help a ton as the people interested in those games are mostly loyal to Sony/MS now. A lot of the games are online as well and people are going to buy whatever their friends have.
Nintendo has just lost their "cool" factor and just aren't even relevant to the average gamer playing CoD, Madden, GTA, AC etc. Having equal hardware and getting equal day one ports wouldn't shift that crowd from Sony/MS to Nintendo. A lot of that crowd doesn't give a shit abou the Nintendo exclusives as they don't play those genres, don't like cartoony graphics etc.
If Nintendo wanted to get back in they'd have to get some major exclusives in genres that sell to that crowd. And it's not easy to make something that stands out next to GTA/CoD etc. to an extent to sell consoles and shift market from Sony/MS. RE4 exclusive on GC was a great pick up--but it still didn't move much hardware relative to PS2 as most were just fine missing that game as there was tons of stuff they wanted to play on PS2 already.
Again, they just missed the boat after the Sony partnership fell through and gaming became more mainstream and genre interest shifted away from the type of games they make being the most popular in the market and selling huge hardware numbers. They're not getting back on that ship. They've got to find their own way to make money. Expand the market again, or just find ways to make a nice profit from their niche and not worry about selling tons of hardware. Their games sell at high attach rates to their base. There's a lot of money to be made if they can just sell 20ish million (GC level sales) consoles at a profit from day 1 in future generations and sell millions of copies of Mario, Zelda et al. to that base.
This again... are people intentionally reading my post in this console war and fanboyism driven mindset. I already responded to something similar.
"i was given a reply that said the Wii U would lose support aka games, so my solution is to buy a platform that has the game that I really want to play but isn't on the Wii U like, Kingdom Hearts 3. This isn't fanboyism, lol, it is straight up being logical."
I presented my reasoning on not purchasing a particular group of worse games, though you can continue to believe whatever you want. I'm a customer, not a corporate slave.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I think they're just fine making money from little kids with mobile games and sucking in the tweens/teens in middle school up with CoD, Madden etc.
They're also probably fine with Nintendo getting younger kids into gaming, knowing a lot of those kids will start buying their games when they get older and stuff like CoD becomes the "cool" games to play with friends.
No, they aren't done. The game industry is always looking to expand. Believe me, they aren't happy that the Wii U is a huge bust. That removes huge hardware sales from the equation.
Nintendo needs to put out better machines next gen. Better price, better first party software support, better branding/marketing, better everything. Third party will be there if Nintendo puts out good products.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I'm tempted to get this for Wii U just because it's the "Teh Matoor" swansong but I know I won't likely because the game seems underwhelming.
The age of 3rd party mature AAA titles on the WiiU is over, probably, yeah.
But if Nintendo comes back with a new console in a few years that's hot fire...they'll be back.
They were always coming back.
The good thing (from a pub's perspective) about this demographic is that it spends more money on games and is more dedicated to gaming. It is also one you can age into it.
Getting Johnny's 16 year old brother Bob to buy and play FIFA every year makes sure that Johnny is exposed to FIFA so that one day he too will buy and play it every year.
Getting Bob exposed to his little brother Johnny's Skylanders does... what? Not much. Bob is "too old" for it, and it wont' be long before Johnny himself is too old for Skylanders.
Of course, this doesn't represent every scenario and attitude, but I think it might play a role.
The fact that mobile game demographics aren't measured as much by age might be partly whey it's such an attractive target market.
Mithos
Member
But I guess the gamers won't (be back that is) they got burned to many times, so they'll go to/be on greener pastures.
Eh...people said the same thing about the Cube, then Nintendo "won" last generation.
Brand disloyalty usually starts and ends at the concept of a product worth owning. It may be too late for the WiiU, Nintendo is going to have to swing for the fences for the next few years to make that thing worth the time and effort already put in.
But Nintendo is not done, not by a longshot.
Nintendo didn't "win" last gen because of gamers.
Mithos
Member
I'm talking about the gamers won't be back to buy 3rd party games, even if Nintendo Next is successful, not the actual console.
they released it. They could have gone the EA route and just told Nintendo to piss off.
I have comprehensively explained the third party situation before. I can only assume you missed it.sörine;126111452 said:
Gamers got burned? Gamers are pretty excitable, but they never got burned. They will be there if the hype and the games are there.
Long story short, EA didn't make the right decision (business as usual for them). I'm happy we agree.
Which is why I used quotes. I think the mentality for why and how they "won" last generation is one of the big reasons why the WiiU is so hobbled right now.
...Why? I think the only reason why gamers haven't been buying 3rd party games on Nintendo platforms is because for the past 10 or so years, they have been the inferior versions.
If Nintendo returns to hardware parody, I don't see why people would avoid 3rd party games.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, but that wasn't from winning back gamers who were disenchanted with Nintendo franchises. That was more just broadening the market and doing a great job of satisfying their niche of fans, families and kids. Wii Sports and Wii Fit sold a lot of consoles to families who then bought stuff like Wii Play, Mario Kart, NSMB etc. for the kiddos.
But there wasn't much appeal there for people who were sick of Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart etc. with the GC (or before). I had a Wii briefly, and sold it off, as once the novelty of Wii Sports wore off I was left with the same Nintendo games I'd grew tired of years before. Made the mistake of buying a Wii U and ended up selling that off. Nintendo nostalgia is hard to shake off as I grew up on NES and SNES. But their games mostly just don't do it for me anymore and I just don't see what they can do to get gamers like me back on board as they're not going to start pumping out exclusive shooters, WRPGs, etc. And they don't really need to as two consoles focused on that market is more than enough. They just need to find a way to profit in their niche, and/or get the casuals back on board.
That typo made me lol hard.
If those companies choose to tell Nintendo "to piss off," that's on them. My concern as a consumer is whether the products these companies sell is worth the money. If Ubisoft's whole defense is "Hey, at least we released it," they shouldn't be blaming the consumers for their failures on Wii U.
It's nice to see an honest answer from Ubisoft.
I know the big AAA pubs get a lot of hate, but I'm pretty sure they can predict ROI for Wii U ports better than we can.
I think a lot of people just underestimate just how poorly the Wii U is selling as well as how little the current Wii U audience cares about the multiplats in question.
I know the big AAA pubs get a lot of hate, but I'm pretty sure they can predict ROI for Wii U ports better than we can.
I think a lot of people just underestimate just how poorly the Wii U is selling as well as how little the current Wii U audience cares about the multiplats in question.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
1. There loyal to other companies now. Nintendo will have a hard time shrugging off the "Kiddy" stigma even if they got more third party support or start making some M rated first party games. So they're left with their niche of fans and familes/kids that don't buy stuff like AC at nearly the rate that the Sony and MS bases do.
2. People's friends are on other platforms, which makes it hard to switch if they're into online gaming.
3. They can't do hardware parity as $400+ consoles wouldn't sell to their family niche, and they won't/can't give that up to chase the mainstream/core gamer crowd that Sony/MS/PC have locked down.
4. They tried with the GC and only sold 22 million.
Everyone, who bought a Wii and played games (Wii wasn't a multimedia device like the other "game consoles", so playing games was the only reason to buy one), was by definition a gamer.
Go away with this "not a gamer" or "not a game" shit. "Wii Sports" is a game. "Angry Birds" is a game. "Heavy Rain" was also a game.
I wanted Killer Freaks. When I played the ZombiU demo, it crashed on me and gave me a little motion sickness. So I skipped it.
I wanted Rayman Legends (which I bought at launch and still haven't finished), but there's no question they handled that poorly.
I never cared for Assassins Creed and I certainly wouldn't jump in at number 3 or 4. So you're correct Ubi - I don't and won't buy AC games.
Watch Dogs really intrigued me, but there's no chance of me buying a late port of the game for anywhere near full price.
And Splinter Cell was the worst selling entry in the franchise, so of course that didn't go well.
But no - I don't want Just Dance either.
So there's an anecdotal viewpoint from a Wii U owner. Honestly, I haven't even picked up several of the Wii U's best games from Nintendo. So given the choice between anything that Ubi would potentially release (other than BG&E2 and another Rayman game), and stuff like W101, Donkey Kong and the upcoming Bayonetta and even Toads Adventure, I can't see myself buying another Ubi game. And that includes not buying any Ubi games for my PS4 (aka my Destiny machine).
So I guess I'm part of the problem - and I guess I just don't care. I'm sorry Wii U owners that do care.
I wanted Rayman Legends (which I bought at launch and still haven't finished), but there's no question they handled that poorly.
I never cared for Assassins Creed and I certainly wouldn't jump in at number 3 or 4. So you're correct Ubi - I don't and won't buy AC games.
Watch Dogs really intrigued me, but there's no chance of me buying a late port of the game for anywhere near full price.
And Splinter Cell was the worst selling entry in the franchise, so of course that didn't go well.
But no - I don't want Just Dance either.
So there's an anecdotal viewpoint from a Wii U owner. Honestly, I haven't even picked up several of the Wii U's best games from Nintendo. So given the choice between anything that Ubi would potentially release (other than BG&E2 and another Rayman game), and stuff like W101, Donkey Kong and the upcoming Bayonetta and even Toads Adventure, I can't see myself buying another Ubi game. And that includes not buying any Ubi games for my PS4 (aka my Destiny machine).
So I guess I'm part of the problem - and I guess I just don't care. I'm sorry Wii U owners that do care.
olore
Member
Yeah, fuck them for having to make ends meet
Not a multimedia device? Did it or did it not run stuff like Netflix and Youtube? So no, playing games was not the only reason to buy one.
And also, I don't consider the Oprah and Ellen's audiences of soccer moms and grandmas to be gamers.
Do we have to get into arguments about semantics? You obviously know what he means.
The Wii was a massive success with audiences that had traditionally not been a part of the core gaming demographic.
PlumCantaloupe
Member
Looks like Nintendo will have to lead the way.
It would seem they need to create the "mature" market again but have some second parties create exclusive games that coild help grow that market like Silicon Knights and Retro did during the GCN era. It needs to be a constant and long-term effort though.
The short end of it is that third-parties won't be able to do it, at least not alone.
It would seem they need to create the "mature" market again but have some second parties create exclusive games that coild help grow that market like Silicon Knights and Retro did during the GCN era. It needs to be a constant and long-term effort though.
The short end of it is that third-parties won't be able to do it, at least not alone.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Nintendo owners aren't dumb. They're not going to buy mechanically shallow, glitchy, pointless collect-a-thons that play themselves (like Assassin's Creed) when they could be playing Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario 3D World instead. OTOH, if Ubisoft does make a game with great art direction and game play, like Rayman Legends, then the Nintendo fans will show up with their wallets. The Zombi U situation is unfortunate as that was a good title, but a poor name and lack of marketing did that one in (like a lot of 3rd party Nintendo games).
Mithos
Member
Oh, indeed, but then there is, late ports, not getting DLC, getting 1 game vs a Trilogy and so on and so forth.
Why should gamers just start "trusting" them to deliver because of maybe 1 single game Next gen?
I said then and there right after Wii U release, if Ubisoft give me Assassin Creed 3, 4, 5, 6 then maybe they have convinced me that they are sticking around, they didn't.
I doubt parity would have helped, and i seriously doubt Nintendo will have parity with Playstation 5 and Xbox Two, I expect ~Xbox One <-> PS4 at best.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Just hold out a little while after release. I'm pretty sure it'll hit bargain bin prices cause no-one's buying it. Don't spend $60.
It's a chicken and egg problem. Ubisoft had no reason to try cause they knew the sales weren't going to be worth it so people have less incentive to buy it over other versions so ubi tried less so people don't buy it....
Nintendo created an ecosystem where 3rd party publishers saw it wasn't worth trying cause their customers mostly buy their games. It is something they can't probably fix unless their audience changes dramatically.
Yep, I feel this encapsulates the situation very well.
Nintendo has broad demographics (in addition to those you list, they have also had major hits with the elderly recently, such as Wii Fit and Brain Training), while all major third party console publishers focus very narrowly on the 16-35 male demographic.
It's that simple. It isn't that third party games can't sell on Nintendo's platforms; the success of Guitar Hero, virtually all Sonic games, virtually all Lego Games, Skylanders, and others show that some types of third party games can do very well on Nintendo's systems. But these types of games just aren't the focus of EA, Take 2, Ubisoft, or Activision. Almost all their biggest hits are violent and focused pretty narrowly on the 16-35 male demo.
Shit ports can sell too. Just not on platforms that don't feel like facilitating great third party development is a goal.
If what you're saying is true, than that's even less reason to develop for Nintendo platforms. Other console owners will buy the "shallow, glitchy, pointless collect-a-thons" and they'll buy the The Last of Us the Journey's and indies and "good" games.
Heck, Nintendo can barely convince Nintendo fans to buy their other IPs (look at the sales of Pikmin, Game and Wario, TW101, Wii Fit, Wii Party, etc...) which is why a chunk of their franchises are "dead" at the moment (FZero, Metroid)
What they can fix is helping to foster third parties which focus on games targeted at a broad demographic.
As mentioned in my post above, those types of games actually do very well on Nintendo's systems, even if made by third parties: Guitar Hero did best on Nintendo's systems. Just Dance was a huge hit that could not possibly have been replicated on PS/Xbox. Lego games sold best on Wii last generation. Sonic games almost always sell best on Nintendo systems, which is why Sega made an exclusivity deal with Nintendo in that regard.
The problem isn't that Nintendo consumers have no interest in third party games, it's that Nintendo consumers have no interest in the games the major third parties are focusing on. The solution, then, would be for Nintendo assist and foster third parties which do focus on games which are more amenable to their ecosystem.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Iwata killed the authonomy from Nintendo's western arm and burned bridges between western third-parties in a time at the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles,
Teen/Mature games for GCN were remnants from NoA's deals made by Minoru Arakawa and Howard Lincoln. Factor 5, Silicon Knights, even Retro had it's bridges built under their wings. After Iwata came out, he decided to consolide his power and influence within NCL (and himself), changed the previous core direction to a more family and casual appeal and downgraded NoA and NoE in result. That's why NoA is the hollow shell it is now.
Fine by me, I don't play their M rated games anymore. I tried playing Assassin's Creed 3 on the Wii U and the game was just a disaster.
Just keep giving me more UbiArt games and we can still be friends Ubisoft.
Like UbiArt! How did Child of Light sell on the Wii U? I bought it on the PS4 (sorry Nintendo!) but did buy Rayman on the Wii U.
Just keep giving me more UbiArt games and we can still be friends Ubisoft.
Like UbiArt! How did Child of Light sell on the Wii U? I bought it on the PS4 (sorry Nintendo!) but did buy Rayman on the Wii U.
Pancakes R Us
Member
I like this point. The problem is, these major third parties are focused on the 18-35 demo which will buy FPS etc. games cause they are what's hot right now and a common trend. Of course, if some of these third parties tried to make (and success) the next Skylanders or something, it could be huge. It's just weighing up that risk, I guess.