I mean, cutting in half the framerate is the bigger downgrade you can do. Most of the downgradeton rages were produced by smaller cuts.
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Uncharted 4 Trailer runs in-engine, in-game, in realtime on a single PS4 at 1080p60
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I mean, cutting in half the framerate is the bigger downgrade you can do. Most of the downgradeton rages were produced by smaller cuts.
Dictator93
Member
Many games have SMAA T2x (the one in infamous is pretty much the same as Cryteks, even has the same artifacting on transparencys and 30 hz motion), I really do not thin k it cleans up an image that well.
A. This isn't a downgrade because the actual game was never at 60fps to begin with.
B. 30 vs 60fps is far less noticeable than the graphics hit to Watch Dogs.
C. There's nothing wrong with downgrades if they are shared openly. Don't drama-monger.
SniperHunter
Banned
the order 1886 looks too good, naughty dog wants to compete with rad
i knew this would run at 30 fps lol
i knew this would run at 30 fps lol
Okay... But that's seemingly not going to be the case for the final product. Or are you trying to be dense?
A. Talking about Watch Dogs, the game was never like the trailer. It was a "vertical slice" too, right?
B. For you, maybe.
C. Double standards.
They did not know it was impossible when they said they were going for it. Now they have gone for it and they think it might be impossible.
Ubi was conveying that as the actual game, It included gameplay and everything.
For me and the vast majority of the public.
You'll have to explain where the double standard is.
Beat me to it.
Dictator93
Member
It was a hypothetical switcheroo situation. If such a thing happened to other games, I can imagine a couple of "angry at ubisoft" threads and every thread would be filled with first post lulz such as "Ubisoft, more like sucksatgraphics-soft."
A game has worse shadows and reflections (but still isnt horrible looking) vs. having 1/2 the framerate. I have hard time imagining how the former is more dramatic.
I always thought SSM was the chapions of PS graphics. Fix camera. RAD irking out performance with their cinematic experience. ND can't really cut corners in the same way. It's amazing they keep up the way that they do.
Not at all. Just making an observation.
Eh, while I agree with you, that's more of a subjective matter.
A. That's not the point. They advertised it as a 60FPS game, for which they were aiming. When that aim, or goal, is dropped, it may as well be considered a downgrade.
B. Debatable. Subjective. Opinionated.
C. No one is drama-mongering. There is something wrong with promising something, or publicly aiming for something, and then dropping it. What kind of logic are you using?
coffeehofi
Member
The teaser looked like it has been rendered using Quadro or K6000 based PC.
Well maybe a company like Dreamworks, ILM, or Pixar need to buy lots of PS4 to render their movies instead? It would be cheaper lol
Well maybe a company like Dreamworks, ILM, or Pixar need to buy lots of PS4 to render their movies instead? It would be cheaper lol
Just because you double something doesn't mean people notice or care.
A game could go from 960fps and fall to 60fps and it wouldn't matter in the slightest, because 60 is already more than good enough.
yeah I get that but my point is they shouldn't have said anything at all. it's pretty clear now that they were only tooting the 60fps horn because TLoU:R was right around the corner and they wanted to create some E3 hype. it was the first E3 with the new consoles out and 1080/60fps was still a relevant buzzword for the industry.
Dictator93
Member
As someone who can see a frame drop from 120-100, I can assure you, your hyperbolic situation would be painfully obvious, even nausea inducing.
The degree of separation (and differentiation for human subjectivity) is pretty large from 33.3 ms to 16.6ms. It is not like the difference between 960 and 540 fps, which has a smaller degree of difference to human time scales.
And what exactly are you basing all of your claims on?
Of course there's nothing wrong with that. Why on earth would there be? They told you they were aiming for 60. Then they told you it would probably not be possible. They gave you ample warning before the game releases.
There is nothing wrong there unless you are trying really hard to believe that there is.
I meant a downgrade, not in-game flucuation.
Opinion, just like you and every other person on this forum.
I think 1080p is already more than good enough. Shut down 4K, we're done here.
This has to be a joke post.
OH WOW!
Then I guess Dark Souls 2 wasn't a downgrade either!
(I actually agree, but from arguing with people I'm convinced 99% of the posters on GAF see that very differently. At least as long as it's not their favourite company)
You know I agree with you that any outrage is kinda pointless.
However this really isn't helping your argument...
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Wasn't this obvious from day 1?
Clearly not, considering how often "this runs at 1080p60 on PS4, so you are full of shit" (accompanied by a gif of this trailer, paraphrasing) was used as an argument here on GAF.
We are under that impression because that is just the actual reality with the game, whether because of the AA, or because of motion blur, it's simply a much cleaner game in motion, and if you had it you could test it yourself. It's not the first console game to have this either, and just one example of why you can't necessarily always compare PC centric anti-aliaisng solutions to custom console one's.
There's an example here, though you can achieve a similar result even with slight movement, and without this degree of motion blur. See the road lines, the steering wheel trim and the fencing in the distance.
Here's another better example with Killzone Shadow Fall. Notice how even slight movement immediately removes jaggies.
Stationary
With slight movement
I never said we shouldn't continue to try improving technology. Not sure where you got that.
Dark Souls 2 they were actually showing gameplay. The game was actually looking like that. UC4 had no gameplay, just scripted animations with no action. Not the same thing.
Anyways I need to bail out of this thread. I stand by my opinions, but I wasn't expecting people to tear into them and I don't want to get stuck in a quoteathon.
They also gave you a 60FPS teaser.
What claim of mine did I base on opinion? Just as a reminder, you should try to avoid basing claims on opinions. That's not how it works. Try facts. Facts are useful.
Cave Johnson
Member
When multiple sources indicate the ND ditched pre-rendered assets on U4, that blows the theory out of the water.
How do you know this? Does every game come packed in with a 30/60fps option like TLOU:R to have an overall statistical analysis to back up your claim?
Great. Let all companies mislead us with false expectations of fake trailers than issue a stealth press release that the game had significant changes to meet their "vision" right?
GhostTrick
Banned
Sorry, it's wrong.
Half the framerate is not only more noticeable, it's also technically a bigger hit.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It does look much more aliased when sitting still. I don't know why, but it does. Maybe it's because there's no motion blur when sitting still, and maybe also because of the ability to pay more attention to detail in visuals as opposed as when you're speeding around. Or maybe like with that KZ image from above, there's something to that type of antialiasing that just doesn't work well when sitting still.
Dictator93
Member
I think that is it.
The Driveclub one looks like motionblur getting in the way, but the KZSF one looks like the specular isclamped in terms of brightness.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
So they managed to get the E3 trailer to run at 60FPS. Question is if they have enough time to optimize the whole game to this extent.
60FPS only make sense when they're pretty solid. Wouldn't be too great when the game fluctuates between 70 and 45 but is capped at 60, so I guess they either achieve a framerate that above 60 like 99% of the time, or they lock it at 30.
60FPS only make sense when they're pretty solid. Wouldn't be too great when the game fluctuates between 70 and 45 but is capped at 60, so I guess they either achieve a framerate that above 60 like 99% of the time, or they lock it at 30.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Well, I thought it at first, but the screens above prove otherwise. I remember now seeing more examples of this in KZ:SF actually.
IMHO, the implementation in I:SS is superior to others, or maybe simply happened to be a perfect fit for the type of colors and contrasts used in the game. You have to keep in mind that SMAAT2x is not just a drop-in solution like FXAA. You have to have motion vectors done to perfection for it to work well, and that's where the implementations differ in quality significantly. However, whatever ND is using in UC4 is far superior to any other PPA I've ever seen.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
I'll believe it when I play it, till then I have no reason to believe any of this. Would LOVE for it to be true, but won't know till I'm playing the release copy.
I've watched gamersyde video with blacks fixed few days ago, it is not. There is a lot of shimmer.
Caayn
Member
A. Then why show an "in-game" trailer at 60fps? It's a downgrade no matter how you want to twist it. Like Seanspeed said on the previous page, any other company would get the full hate treatment like Ubi got with Watch Dogs for pulling shit like that.
B. For you perhaps, and did you play Watch Dogs in both 30fps and 60fps? Give TLOU remasterd a shot, 60fps plays and feels a lot better than 30fps does.
C. Reveal: Hey guys our game is going to run at 1080p/60fps and will look just like this. Some months before release: Ah nevermind guys we were just kidding, 60fps is hard let's go for 30fps and forget what we said about 30fps feeling broken and other stupid jokes we made about that subject.
Doesn't something feel wrong with that? If not, you might want to check your mailbox for a pay cheque from Naughty Dog if there isn't it might be smart to reconsider giving them a call.
GeordieMark
Member
I don't see the need for the drama. The trailer was shown very early in the development process when things are still subject to change. A reveal trailer shouldn't be taken as any indicator of how a game will look upon release.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure we are all going to enjoy it when it arrives and all of this will be forgotten.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure we are all going to enjoy it when it arrives and all of this will be forgotten.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
There's a tiny bit of shimmer, and the sharpeness to the image that's missing from just about everything else that doesn't introduce a lot more shimmer. Especially impressive that have somehow managed to spare the more distant tree tops from becoming the shimmery hell too. It really is the best looking overall solution I've seen, especially considering the type of scene treated which was just about the worst case scenario for PPA solution.
I do agree that it's a bit of a sloppy way of handling things on their part, but I think secretly a lot of people, like me, don't care because we wanted the game to be 30fps all along. Now at least they can blow out the visuals, scope of the levels and set pieces, without having 60fps hold them back. And I mean visuals that look great even without being DoF'd to hell like the original reveal trailer was. You don't exactly hear anyone complaining about Driveclub anymore….and that went through a similar transition.
On a side note, I hope you realise the game is still a year out lol. Bit premature to judge no?
Freeman
Banned
60 fps talk sounded absolutely premature.
60fps is a much better fit for Uncharted, save 60fps for a future remaster on PS5.
Unlocked fps could be interesting if the PS4 had a solution like FreeSync available for it. If a PS4 revision included a DP it would be great since it already has some game that have a unlocked framerate.
60fps is a much better fit for Uncharted, save 60fps for a future remaster on PS5.
Unlocked fps could be interesting if the PS4 had a solution like FreeSync available for it. If a PS4 revision included a DP it would be great since it already has some game that have a unlocked framerate.
Yeah right...
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
A. Thats such BS. Of course ND isn't getting the vitriol that Watch Dogs did its not even close to the same thing. It wasn't a vertical slice of anything. All we saw was a cutscene you can't be serious. With Watchdogs they DEMO'ED a whole mission.
B. TLOU R feels sublime at 60 but if you try it at a locked 30 guess what, the game still feels and plays great. IMO
C. They never said that the game was going to be 60fps, they said they were aiming for it. The only thing I will concede to you is them making such a big deal about how great 60fps feels. They really screwed up with that.
well not really. 60fps does feel really great. where they screwed up, however, is by letting their fans expect Uncharted 4 to be 60fps and then pulling the rug out from under them later on.
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