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Verge: New Hololens impressions "demo videos are all basically a lie"

H

Heigic

Member
Tobor said:
A bullshit Microsoft tech demo? You don't say. It's only been their M.O for decades.

The product they show is almost never the product they ship. Everyone should know this by now.
Click to expand...

It's not bullshit though. The impressive thing is the software and the FOV can be fixed with better hardware.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
CoG said:
That's great and all but they went for headlines with videos that are not indicative of the product they plan to ship this year. That's the problem with Microsoft and their sci-fi demos.

More sci-fi BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-tFdreZB94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozLaklIFWUI
Click to expand...

Holy shit, this thread. Neither of those videos are demos. Note that they are both concept videos, intended to show an extrapolation of current technology 5-10 years in the future.

One of the videos' title even has the year 2020 in it!
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Paco said:
Are you responding to the impressions of the 3 devs or the impressions from January? The dev impressions I linked to were from /build.

I suppose it doesn't matter. Both have very similar praise: it's amazing, but that FOV...
Click to expand...

I was just saying the fov on the device from Jan was larger so the impressions didn't harp on it as much(though some certainly mentioned it). It was also tethered and the device itself was bulkier so the small fov could certainly be due to less computational power or the desire to slim the device. Either way, they need to fix that before they launch to the public.
 
K

killer rin

Member
CoG said:
That's great and all but they went for headlines with videos that are not indicative of the product they plan to ship this year. That's the problem with Microsoft and their sci-fi demos.

More sci-fi BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-tFdreZB94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozLaklIFWUI
Click to expand...

..Those are suppose to be futuristic. They are called "Vision of the Future" videos... aka, set in a futuristic setting. They literally release those every couple of years... the second video you linked is a couple years old.

JaggedSac said:
I was just saying the fov on the device from Jan was larger so the impressions didn't harp on it as much(though some certainly mentioned it). It was also tethered and the device itself was bulkier so the small fov could certainly be due to less computational power or the desire to slim the device. Either way, they need to fix that before they launch to the public.
Click to expand...
Luckily for Microsoft, other than "Within the lifespan of Windows 10" we don't know when this ships. It could be this year, next year or even 3 years from now. As more time goes on between now and launch, thats more time they are working on it to fix issues which have been brought to their attention from demos with the press, developers and general public which have gotten in person demos.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
killer rin said:
..Those are suppose to be futuristic. They are called "Vision of the Future" videos... aka, set in a futuristic setting. They literally release those every couple of years... the second video you linked is a couple years old.


Luckily for Microsoft, other than "Within the lifespan of Windows 10" we don't know when this ships. It could be this year, next year or even 3 years from now. As more time goes on between now and launch, thats more time they are working on it to fix issues which have been brought to their attention from demos with the press, developers and general public which have gotten in person demos.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
I'm starting to feel like this device is not coming out commercially for at least 5 years. This was one of many r&ds they had going on when people started asking about what ms have planned for vr. At the moment, I think this is a kind of vaporware.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
Crayon said:
I'm starting to feel like this device is not coming out commercially for at least 5 years. This was one of many r&ds they had going on when people started asking about what ms have planned for vr. At the moment, I think this is a kind of vaporware.
Click to expand...

There is a release planned "within the Windows 10 time frame". I doubt there will be much meaningful on Hololens till developers have had a good amount of time to work on things for it
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
So the prototypes headsets have a limited FOV, whereas the camera recording the demo had full FOV?

I'm still hugely excited for this product, I imagine the headsets will have better hardware for a larger FOV in the future.
 
A

Arjac

Member
Anton Sugar said:
It's amusing to note when GAF decides they can trust The Verge or not.

It's important to note a distinction here: the field of view/level of immersion from the demo is the "lie". The functionality is all there, according to impressions.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I have no doubt that people trying this have only scratched the surface of its problems.
 
C

CoG

Member
killer rin said:
..Those are suppose to be futuristic. They are called "Vision of the Future" videos... aka, set in a futuristic setting. They literally release those every couple of years... the second video you linked is a couple years old.
Click to expand...

The point is the same firm must have made the HoloLens video because it's more of the same sci-fi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRQv74J7oSk

Not many of the concepts shown in the above video will be part of what ships this year.
 
H

Hockeymac18

Member
Heigic said:
It's not bullshit though. The impressive thing is the software and the FOV can be fixed with better hardware.
Click to expand...

It's interesting how some people are interpreting this video and article. What's clear to me is the basic functionality of Hololens obviously works (a lot of people have used it and have said it does...even this Verge video says so).

It works. But it's just limited in certain ways at the moment, FOV in particular (it's not surprising that a beta version of a product isn't fully developed, after all).

I personally don't really see too many similarities to Kinect, mainly because people have said it works (unlike with Kinect, which had some buggy ass demos, even the staged ones). And since this isn't limited to gaming (like Kinect was), I see MS (and developers) putting a ton of resources into this.

Granted I'm not saying there shouldn't be more transparency on the limitations of the device from MS (definitely in demos). MS is giving off the wrong impressions with some of their demo videos and overpromising on where the product is today (not necessarily on where it will likely get to eventually, though). That part is unfortunate since its overshadowing super exciting tech being developed. Because even in its limited form, it's still immensely impressive what they've done so far.

Just relax, people. Give them some time. Maybe version 1 won't be all of the way there; but I have a feeling this stuff will get worked out as it's tested more. I can't wait to try it (realistically not until like 2025... but eventually!).

I'm still pretty dammed excited about this tech, even in its current limited form. And I can't wait to see what developers do with it.
 
D

Daviii

Member
jem0208 said:
So basically 2 not so positive impressions among a sea of very positive impressions means everything was a lie.

Note: Again the article was only complaining about the FoV, and a comment about a bug. Basically issues which could well be solved. They actually cemented the general opinion that the holograms are actually very good and that interacting with them was also good.

Here's the article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9213/microsoft-hololens-handson
Click to expand...

It IS a lie. When you show everybody something impressive your actual hardware cannot do, that is a lie. A lie EXACTLY as if Sony would show a real time demo of a PS4 game, which is being played in real time, in your damn face, just to discover the footage is prerendered and will not look like that one you buy the console. I'd love to see the reaction for that scenario.
 
N

Noobcraft

Member
Daviii said:
It IS a lie. When you show everybody something impressive your actual hardware cannot do, that is a lie. A lie EXACTLY as if Sony would show a real time demo of a PS4 game, which is being played in real time, in your damn face, just to discover the footage is prerendered and will not look like that one you buy the console. I'd love to see the reaction for that scenario.
Click to expand...
The 60 fps Uncharted 4 gameplay reveal thread already exists.
 
Saiyan-Rox

Saiyan-Rox

Member
How are companies allowed to get away with advertising like this? Honest question - you see it all the time with Gaming nowadays with graphics that aren't the same in the finished product etc
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Hockeymac18 said:
It's interesting how some people are interpreting this video and article. What's clear to me is the basic functionality of Hololens obviously works (a lot of people have used it and have said it does).

It works. But it's just limited in certain ways at the moment, FOV in particular (it's not surprising that a beta version of a product isn't fully developed, after all).

I personally don't really see too many similarities to Kinect, mainly because people have said it works (unlike worth Kinect, which had some buggy ass demos, even the stages ones). And since this isn't limited to gaming (like Kinect was), I see MS (and developers) putting a ton of resources into this.

Granted I'm not saying there shouldn't be more transparency on the limitations of the device from MS (definitely in demos). MS is giving off the wrong impressions with some of their demo videos and overpromising on where the product is today (not necessarily on where it will likely get to eventually, though). That part is unfortunate since its overshadowing super exciting tech being developed. Because even in its limited form, it's still immensely impressive what they've done so far.

Just relax, people. Give them some time. Maybe version 1 won't be all of the way there; but I have a feeling this stuff will get worked out as it's tested more. I can't wait to try it (realistically not until like 2025... but eventually!).

I'm still pretty dammed excited about this tech, even in its current limited form. And i can't wait to see what developers do with it.
Click to expand...

Great post, right here.
 
H

Hana-Bi

Member
Daviii said:
It IS a lie. When you show everybody something impressive your actual hardware cannot do, that is a lie. A lie EXACTLY as if Sony would show a real time demo of a PS4 game, which is being played in real time, in your damn face, just to discover the footage is prerendered and will not look like that one you buy the console. I'd love to see the reaction for that scenario.
Click to expand...

Well, we have hands on impressions and the media mentioned since the first reveal that the fov is a small window. Still, most of those impressions were positive.

I think this is a fair way to introduce new technology. They show what can be seen if you look in a certain direction, the presentation was cleary in a third person view. But why should MS lie or how can they lie when they show the tech to the media/developers/journalists? Sometimes you can't show everything what can and can't be done with your tech in a presentation. But that is fine in my opinion if you give the media the chance to experience the tech and talk about those limitations...
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
Well shit.
Hockeymac18 said:
It's interesting how some people are interpreting this video and article. What's clear to me is the basic functionality of Hololens obviously works (a lot of people have used it and have said it does).

It works. But it's just limited in certain ways at the moment, FOV in particular (it's not surprising that a beta version of a product isn't fully developed, after all).

I personally don't really see too many similarities to Kinect, mainly because people have said it works (unlike with Kinect, which had some buggy ass demos, even the staged ones). And since this isn't limited to gaming (like Kinect was), I see MS (and developers) putting a ton of resources into this.

Granted I'm not saying there shouldn't be more transparency on the limitations of the device from MS (definitely in demos). MS is giving off the wrong impressions with some of their demo videos and overpromising on where the product is today (not necessarily on where it will likely get to eventually, though). That part is unfortunate since its overshadowing super exciting tech being developed. Because even in its limited form, it's still immensely impressive what they've done so far.

Just relax, people. Give them some time. Maybe version 1 won't be all of the way there; but I have a feeling this stuff will get worked out as it's tested more. I can't wait to try it (realistically not until like 2025... but eventually!).

I'm still pretty dammed excited about this tech, even in its current limited form. And I can't wait to see what developers do with it.
Click to expand...
Get your sound, reasoned logic out of here!!!
 
J

jem0208

Member
Daviii said:
It IS a lie. When you show everybody something impressive your actual hardware cannot do, that is a lie. A lie EXACTLY as if Sony would show a real time demo of a PS4 game, which is being played in real time, in your damn face, just to discover the footage is prerendered and will not look like that one you buy the console. I'd love to see the reaction for that scenario.
Click to expand...
The only "lie" in the demos is the FoV though, everything else is apparently possible.
 
A

Arjac

Member
Zedox said:
The fact of the matter is that the technology works but the FOV is ass. That's like saying, hey the iPhone is cool but the battery is ass. Something can be improved upon.
Click to expand...
Yes, but AFAIK that could be said about making Kinect more accurate, and for all its features an iPhone isn't much use if the battery needs charging every half-hour.
By the same token, all these features mean only slightly more than jack if your field of view is like staring through a keyhole.
And that's before getting into the "Glasshole" issue, since the hardware looks even more obtrusive with this.
 
R

RootCause

Member
I'm burned out of trying to mix video games with real life. I just want to control an avatar, and have fun.
Kinect was also very underwhelming, and didn't come close to living up to their presentations.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
what's frustrating about this is that they over promised things with an amazing demo. now the reality, which is actually almost as incredible due to 'first generation' and promise of the future etc now looks so much more horrible. give it 5 years, this'll be good.
 
S

shandy706

Member
nynt9 said:
This impression stands out to me from the rest of the hololens impressions which are overwhelmingly positive so I thought this deserved its own thread.
Click to expand...

That's good to hear.

Juanfp said:
Or maybe we just wait for the final product that will be sell to the people to know if they were lying?
Click to expand...

No kidding. I don't see the stand alone, fully capable, hardware being finished for quite a while. Have they mentioned when? I figured this was late 2016 to 2017 at the earliest.
 
C

Catatafish

Banned
This thread was fun to read. On topic though.Pretry excited about the Hololens, I could definitely see the usefulness in engineering/architecture applications.
 
G

gcubed

Member
jem0208 said:
So basically 2 not so positive impressions among a sea of very positive impressions means everything was a lie.

Note: Again the article was only complaining about the FoV, and a comment about a bug. Basically issues which could well be solved. They actually cemented the general opinion that the holograms are actually very good and that interacting with them was also good.

Here's the article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9213/microsoft-hololens-handson
Click to expand...

and Ars

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/05/01/hololens-still-magical-but-with-the-ugly-taint-of-reality/

so... its not an isolated incident. It is a lesser experience than before. As it comes off its lofty highs and put into something that may actually work for the public, its being scaled back
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
Arjac said:
Yes, but AFAIK that could be said about making Kinect more accurate, and for all its features an iPhone isn't much use if the battery needs charging every half-hour.
By the same token, all these features mean only slightly more than jack if your field of view is like staring through a keyhole.
And that's before getting into the "Glasshole" issue, since the hardware looks even more obtrusive with this.
Click to expand...

So now it's a keyhole? Wow, I am pretty shocked. Also, people are comparing it to Kinect? They do know that this product was not designed as a complimentary device to the Xbox, right? I am willing to bet a 90:10 ratio for industrial/business/science to gaming use for this device.
 
A

Arjac

Member
etta said:
So now it's a keyhole? Wow, I am pretty shocked. Also, people are comparing it to Kinect? They do know that this product was not designed as a complimentary device to the Xbox, right? I am willing to bet a 90:10 ratio for industrial/business/science to gaming use for this device.
Click to expand...
Slight hyperbole
I think?
point is the feature list is of secondary concern compared to making the thing not a pain in the ass to use
 
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