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[Deleted member 12837]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56f08cc4e4b084c6722139ca

It's a lot of carbs though.

50 to 65 percent of calories.

On mobile but skimmed the article. I didn't see any specific numbers for how many calories of carbs are consumed daily?

50-65% of what? Percentages tell us nothing without knowing total intake. That could be 800 calories or 1800 calories.

Also, that article mentions Japanese people are far more active on average, and combine high-carb with low fat. You basically need to pick which you like better: fat or carbs.

 

[Zoc]

People always bring up the example of rice-eating Asians who are slim. It's a good example, but keep two things in mind: one, that diet includes a huge proportion of carbs, but it's also very low fat and low calorie. That's very hard to maintain in today's food culture. Second, look at the traditional Asian body type: short and scrawny, and think carefully if that's what you want. That body type is the inevitable outcome of a low calorie diet poor in fat and protein.

 

[Izuna]

Because starchy foods for breakfast means you don't need brunch, and people like brunch

 

[jiggle]

So can I eat Brad or what

 

[prag16]

Yea, these are opinions you have based on how you emotionally feel and not based on any fact or science.

"They tell me all fruit is horrible for you but I love fruit."

Gaf has a MASSIVE diet soda defense force (even though that shit is literally poison); was about to warn the guy about that, but it seems I was too late.

 

[BlueTsunami]

So can I eat Brad or what

Brad should take a shower first

 

[highrider]

I don't know man. I eat lots of rice, potatoes and bread. The only thing I really don't eat except on special occasions is red meat. I get that people are more diet conscious and stuff, but I don't worry about it. I'm a physical, active person. People say diet is everything, but I don't agree. I think lifestyle and stuff is more important. Being fit is now gym/gainz to most people. I've always just had a physical occupation and played basketball. Never had weight issues and I'm almost 50. But I have good genes, so maybe if I didn't I would be a wreck lol.

 

[The Lamp]

Gaf has a MASSIVE diet soda defense force (even though that shit is literally poison); was about to warn the guy about that, but it seems I was too late.

Explain to me how diet soda is literally poison.

What it literally is is neutral. It's calorically neutral, metabolically neutral, and just a few salts and flavors tossed into carbonated water.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Diet soda appears to lead to more weight gain than non-diet soda in rats according to the scientific literature. It is not clear this also occurs with humans, but it's not unreasonable to worry that it does.

The mechanism is not completely understood, but the general theory is that triggering the body to think it is consuming something sweet but not actually delivering causes it to overcompensate by consuming more.

I've heard of this, but hasn't it been said that it is incorrect to create a correlation between the two when after all, there might be other factors why diet drinkers are consuming more food?

Add to that, I've heard a lot of people are taking a step back from rat experiments as a useful indicator of human behavior. There seems to be a growing number of experiments with rats where their behavior have been inconsistent with human behavior when exposed to similar stimuli. Gluten, cocaine and others being some of those experiments.

 

[TTG]

Why the carbophobia?

Diet methodology is very trend driven. The prospects of putting down the fork and going to a gym aren't very appealing and there's no easy, immediate way to test these approaches at home unless we're talking something in the extreme like ketosis. Adding to the fun are articles/studies defending every conceivable view point. Not that they're all equally inaccurate, or it's a matter of opinion, it's not, but it makes these kinds of debates(among people who have not researched this seriously) largely useless.

As a general rule, I would be wary of focusing on restricting carbs. Calories in versus out is the overriding factor in all of this and fats are more than twice as dense.

 

[entremet]

People always bring up the example of rice-eating Asians who are slim. It's a good example, but keep two things in mind: one, that diet includes a huge proportion of carbs, but it's also very low fat and low calorie. That's very hard to maintain in today's food culture. Second, look at the traditional Asian body type: short and scrawny, and think carefully if that's what you want. That body type is the inevitable outcome of a low calorie diet poor in fat and protein.

Far from scientific, but they're not low calorie diets.

http://www.seenox.org/how-many-calories-do-people-consume-in-a-day-around-the-world/

I'll get more sources later.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Gaf has a MASSIVE diet soda defense force (even though that shit is literally poison); was about to warn the guy about that, but it seems I was too late.

I don't want to join any defense force, but I drink quite a bit of diet soda daily, and it gives me anxiety when people talk about it being bad for you, and I try to find literature on it.

When I google diet soda side effects I've seen that it can cause sterility, cancer, depression, schizophrenia, and a host of other diseases.
And I wonder if some people are more predisposed, or if its a genetic thing, or if its an amount thing. It's just difficult to find the actual science on it.

If I eat healthy besides drinking diet soda, am I unhealthy? how much good lifestyle and exercise would it take to negate or even out drinking diet soda? and how much before it becomes bad? Can diet soda really mess with your fertility or cause depression? There are so many aspartame sites saying these scary things!

 

[highrider]

You gotta remember as well that these societies that had carbs in a large portion of their diet weren't sitting in cubicles for the better part of the day. They physically worked all the time.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Fruit is horrible for you because of its excessive sugar content. Having some vitamins doesn't negate the fact that you're eating/drinking large amounts of sugar. That's like adding vitamins to coke.

This is hilarious.

 

[7DollarHagane]

It does have sugar but the fiber slows down its absorption.

see my point about modern fruits being engineered for higher sugar content than natural.

 

[GovtPlates]

Look at obesity rates. People eat far too much food in general and do not want to cut back, so they blame everything but the actual problem.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Look at obesity rates. People eat far too much food in general and do not want to cut back, so they blame everything but the actual problem.

Yeah pretty much.

Plus it's easy to eat a lot of carbs.

I can imagine some dude who stopped eating carbs, started losing weight, and was like "fucking carbs were making me fat!". Really all he did was cut like 800 calories from his daily diet by not eating a bigass bowl of frosted flakes, 4 slices of wonderbread, and a can of Spaghetti-Os everyday haha.

 

[HariKari]

Look at obesity rates. People eat far too much food in general and do not want to cut back, so they blame everything but the actual problem.

The entire point of cutting out carbs is to make it easy to diet down and eat fewer calories. Carbs in general are plentiful and cheap in our modern society.

You just don't need carbs. The body will happily run without them.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Funded by Big Carba.

 

[prag16]

Explain to me how diet soda is literally poison.

What it literally is is neutral. It's calorically neutral, metabolically neutral, and just a few salts and flavors tossed into carbonated water.

Seriously, no where else have I seen people argue so vigorously for diet soda than on gaf.

Aspartame speaks for itself. There is a laundry list of potential concerns, as you well know. The aspartame/caffeine combination can be addictive for some people, and can actually have a slight dehydrating effect even though you're drinking a fluid that's mostly water.

And this isn't even getting into phosphoric acid, or concerns about how the artificial sweeteners can affect gut flora.

Not that regular soda is really better. It's bad in some of the same, and some different ways. Water for the win.

 

[Pops Maellard]

Look at obesity rates. People eat far too much food in general and do not want to cut back, so they blame everything but the actual problem.

Valid, but being in a ketogenic state is amazing.

 

[seanoff]

The entire point of cutting out carbs is to make it easy to diet down and eat fewer calories. Carbs in general are plentiful and cheap in our modern society.

You just don't need carbs. The body will happily run without them.

Lies.

Point me to the hard science that says this. Hard science. Not bro science. I want properly constructed studies that say this.

Your body needs. Protein, Fat and carbs. They all have different jobs.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Seriously, no where else have I seen people argue so vigorously for diet soda than on gaf.

Aspartame speaks for itself. There is a laundry list of potential concerns, as you well know. The aspartame/caffeine combination can be addictive for some people, and can actually have a slight dehydrating effect even though you're drinking a fluid that's mostly water.

And this isn't even getting into phosphoric acid, or concerns about how the artificial sweeteners can affect gut flora.

Not that regular soda is really better. It's bad in some of the same, and some different ways. Water for the win.

This is nonsense. Stop reading food babe or mercola.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/2...upports-artificial-sweeteners-over-sugar.html

 

[DjRalford]

Lies.

Point me to the hard science that says this. Hard science. Not bro science. I want properly constructed studies that say this.

Your body needs. Protein, Fat and carbs. They all have different jobs.

People cut out carbs for all sorts of reasons, if we couldn't survive without feeding on them the human species would have died a long time ago, your body can still make the glycogen it needs without carbs through gluconeogenesis.

I'm just transitioning from keto (under 20g carbs a day) to a standard low carb diet after losing almost 30kg in 4 months.

 

[rykomatsu]

It does have sugar but the fiber slows down its absorption.

While you have sugar in your blood, insulin is being produced / circulating around
While you have insulin circulating around, your body will not use fat for energy

Most fruits naturally have sucrose (disaccharide consisting of glucose and fructose), glucose, and fructose
Your muscles can use only glucose for energy
Your liver is the only organ that can use fructose
If your liver does not need fructose (ie. energy needs are met), it gets converted to fat

Consumption of too much sugar leads to insulin resistance in some people (ie. glucose receptors require more insulin in the blood to open)
More insulin leads to more aggressive insulin / sugar spikes
These spikes lead to feeling of hunger, even though the body may no longer need food

etc

 

[Fury451]

Honestly I've tried eating according to what people say on Gaf and it probably would've killed me if I didn't go back to what's worked before. It's a diet thing though- everybody says something different about what is and what isn't good to eat.

Everybody is different, there is no one-size-fits-all. I eat "good" carbs moderately and feel great, and I'm at a consistent healthy weight.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Asians that eat a lot of rice typically don't go overboard with the portions and there isn't as much sugar in their diet as well. On top of that, they also usually have a lot of veggies with their meals too.

 

[lawnchair]

Second, look at the traditional Asian body type: short and scrawny, and think carefully if that's what you want. That body type is the inevitable outcome of a low calorie diet poor in fat and protein.

good point.. good point..

 

[Jonm1010]

Asians that eat a lot of rice typically don't go overboard with the portions and there isn't as much sugar in their diet as well. On top of that, they also usually have a lot of veggies with their meals too.

The Japanese diet the poster keeps pointing to is one low in calories, high in veggies and fish and reasonable portions of rice. Also a traditionally active lifestyle.

 

[Not]

I don't know man who cares I'll just eat whatever and work out and then I'll die someday

 

[Macam]

Since 1/3 of Americans are obese and something like 2/3 are overweight, and because the most abundant and affordable dietary options tend to be nutritionless, refined carbohydate heavy options, you end up with a strong counter reaction by people who (amazingly) discover eating less carbs can lead to positive outcomes. Vegetables and exercise, who knew?

There's a new food/workout fad every few years, and some people always end up taking it to extremes. I had a coworker who would literally just not eat any carbs and simply ate a Ziplog bag full of bacon full breakfast and lunch. Combined with some exercise, he dropped a decent amount of weight (though he promptly plateaued). People do some weird shit.

 

[Noirulus]

Far from scientific, but they're not low calorie diets.

http://www.seenox.org/how-many-calories-do-people-consume-in-a-day-around-the-world/

I'll get more sources later.

What's your blood group? Like I said, blood type matters. Your experience isn't indicative of others experiences with carbs. I don't know why you're defending carbs so vehemently when its effects vary A LOT depending on the individual's genetic makeup.

 

[prag16]

This is nonsense. Stop reading food babe or mercola.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/2...upports-artificial-sweeteners-over-sugar.html

I find it amusing that this alleged pediatrician lets his kids drink soda several times per week. Also, he's very focused on cancer, but that's far from the only concern raised. He ignores everything else, then just spends the back half of the article attacking sugar, which is all well and good.

You don't need to go to food babe or Mercola. Any quick trip to the pubmed database will immediately indicate that this guy obviously cherry picked or ignored sources as he saw fit, in order to make his point. Seriously, pubmed database. You can only read the abstracts for the most part, but that's plenty. Or are peer reviewed journal sources no good either?

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I find it amusing that this alleged pediatrician lets his kids drink soda several times per week. Also, he's very focused on cancer, but that's far from the only concern raised. He ignores everything else, then just spends the back half of the article attacking sugar, which is all well and good.

You don't need to go to food babe or Mercola. Any quick trip to the pubmed database will immediately indicate that this guy obviously cherry picked or ignored sources as he saw fit, in order to make his point. Seriously, pubmed database. You can only read the abstracts for the most part, but that's plenty. Or are peer reviewed journal sources no good either?

Seriously?
Pulling the "do your own research" gambit?

Aspartame: A Safety Evaluation Based on Current Use Levels, Regulations, and Toxicological and Epidemiological Studies

 

[prag16]

Seriously?
Pulling the "do your own research" gambit?

Aspartame: A Safety Evaluation Based on Current Use Levels, Regulations, and Toxicological and Epidemiological Studies

Here, I'll help you.

1. Go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed.
2. Type aspartame (or any number of other search terms).
3. Profit.

I don't need to drop a bunch of links in here. There are too many to list. Sure there are resources that are not unfavorable to your position there too. inb4 you go through the list to cherry pick and link just those.

 

[Zoc]

Far from scientific, but they're not low calorie diets.

http://www.seenox.org/how-many-calories-do-people-consume-in-a-day-around-the-world/

I'll get more sources later.

Those are very interesting snapshots of different eating habits around the world, but still just anecdotal.

Not that I have any better evidence. My point was that the "traditional" Japanese diet was low-cal with a very high proportion of carbs, but what "traditional" diets actually were is very subjective these days. It isn't exactly easy to study the eating habits of people that died 100 years ago.

Nevertheless, the impression I get (from reading Japanese newspapers and magazines on the subject) is that the traditional diet was centered around rice and barley, with side dishes of pickled vegetables and miso soup. Even fish was something that most people didn't eat every day. That diet had positives and negatives: people generally had very low rates of cancer and heart disease, but suffered terribly from rickets and stunted development. They were slim, but very short with little muscle mass.

 

[HariKari]

Your body needs. Protein, Fat and carbs. They all have different jobs.

No, you literally don't need carbs. The body switches over to fat for fuel.

Even the American Dietetic Association bible, the RDA Handbook, states that there is no requirement for dietary carbohydrates. Any decent nutrition or physiology book will state the same. Despite this basic biological fact, many researchers and diet authorities still insist that the majority (50-60% or more) of the human diet should come from carbohydrates.

How Many Carbohydrates Do You Need?

Although some studies suggest that pre-exercise muscle glycogen stores determine capacity for prolonged exercise [12], there is no clear requirement for dietary carbohydrates for human adults [13]. Current carbohydrate recommendations are based on 1) preventing ketosis, and 2) providing glucose beyond minimal needs. However, it is clear that ketosis is not harmful [14-16], except in the high levels seen in type 1 diabetes. Also, the need to provide glucose above minimal needs is exactly what has never been demonstrated [14]. Indeed, the National Research Council has not established Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for carbohydrates, probably because the human body can adapt to a carbohydrate-free diet and manufacture the glucose it needs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/

 

[seanoff]

People cut out carbs for all sorts of reasons, if we couldn't survive without feeding on them the human species would have died a long time ago, your body can still make the glycogen it needs without carbs through gluconeogenesis.

I'm just transitioning from keto (under 20g carbs a day) to a standard low carb diet after losing almost 30kg in 4 months.

You may want to do a bit of research on the metabolic stages of starvation. Read the hard science. Not the bullshit bro shit. And how many carbs just your brain needs. Hint. It's way more than you think.

Well done you've lost weight and significantly depleted your skeletal muscles. Woot. Success. :-(. Never mind the other damaging effects .

 

[Freshmaker]

Civilization in the past didn't have enough food to eat, not as much as we do today anyway, which is why it was a sign of wealth if you were fat.

There is also no way they had a high carb diet like it is popular these days. Look at any takeaway meal. It is 90% sugar and carbs because it tastes good and is incredibly cheap to produce.

There are corporations that made billions vilifying fat and creating the food pyramid.

Never look up the traditional Japanese diet if you believe all this.

 

[zswordsman]

But starchy carbs are foods that fed civilizations and were consumed by many populations that remained lean and healthy. Think China pre modernization, where the common citizen ate more than 90 percent of calories from rice and obesity was rare.

I'm not anti low carb. I've used low carb style diets in the past to great success. And ketogenic diets can be amazing for mental clarity. I'm familiar with the work of Dom D'Agastino and his research with ketogenic diets.

I just don't get vilifying these foods that have powered the human species since the dawn of civilization.


Why the carbophobia?

I mainly love skipping on carbs because of this. It was crazy to have this mental fog that was plaguing me just disappear by cutting carbs. Also the weight loss.
It is hard though, I love rice and carbs are tasty, I'll probably research the Japanese diet more and take in more carbs once I get to a better weight. It's easy to maintain once you're at the right weight.

From what I remember from my anthropology class, health problems stared to arise once humans started farming and consuming grains, starchy stuff. Teeth decay, lower life spans, disease etc. All from changing our diet to what it is, I guess the trade off though is that it allows more people to have access to food and focus on other things. I'm sure someone more in the know will correct me :v

 

[Kite]

About the whole Asians thing.. we have the highest diabetes rates cus of all the rice we eat, I've seen tons of articles in the local Chinese-language papers to cut our rice portions in half and to try and swap it out for brown rice for the higher fiber content. We are more slight of build sure but tend towards the skinny fat thing, less muscles and more fat around the stomach area.

My doc is Chinese and tells all his Asian patients that we have our own BMI scale, take whatever the normal range is and subtract another 10ish lbs for our ideal weight for males. Those numbers are for the whites, blacks, hispanics and other races.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Carbs are mostly fine as long as you are using up the glucose you're taking in, which is what people who moved all day to work and survive would have been doing. The problem is when you mix a high-carb diet (likely even higher than what the people you are talking about ate historically) with a relatively sedentary lifestyle.

About the whole Asians thing.. we have the highest diabetes rates cus of all the rice we eat, I've seen tons of articles in the local Chinese-language papers to cut our rice portions in half and to try and swap it out for brown rice for the higher fiber content. We are more slight of build sure but tend towards the skinny fat thing, less muscles and more fat around the stomach area.

My doc is Chinese and tells all his Asian patients that we have our own BMI scale, take whatever the normal range is and subtract another 10ish lbs for our ideal weight for males. Those numbers are for the whites, blacks, hispanics and other races.

Yeah. Diabetes and strokes are pretty common even among the non-obese in Asian countries.

 

[DjRalford]

You may want to do a bit of research on the metabolic stages of starvation. Read the hard science. Not the bullshit bro shit. And how many carbs just your brain needs. Hint. It's way more than you think.

Well done you've lost weight and significantly depleted your skeletal muscles. Woot. Success. :-(. Never mind the other damaging effects .

wow, i think you're the one that needs to do their research, firstly your brain doesn't use carbs, it uses the glycogen that your body converts carbs into, the same glycogen that your liver can convert from fatty acids for any needs, also as a side note the majority of your brain will function upto 30% better running from ketone bodies, only a very small amount of glycogen is needed, go read the medical documents like i did before starting keto.

Out of my 29.5kg loss i lost 34kg of fat mass, and gained 4.5kg of muscle mass, so that blows your other comment out the water too.

 

[zswordsman]

I agree with DJ. If anything I'm more firm on keto. Lost 60lbs of weight yet I have more muscle than before.

Also wow at that diabetic rate for Asians. Mexicans are the same though, our diet is carb heavy but what makes it bad is that it's heavy carb and heavy fat at the same time. That and the lack of exercise in Mexico is why the population is so fat now and super diabetic.

 

[Amalthea]

Of course people in old China stayed slim between eating only rice and constant bouts of beri-beri.

 

[Greddleok]

Look up the Blood type diet, OP. Some people's bodies are much more responsive to carbs than others.

Might as well look up the Voodoo diet while he's at it.

Here, I'll help you.

1. Go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed.
2. Type aspartame (or any number of other search terms).
3. Profit.

I don't need to drop a bunch of links in here. There are too many to list. Sure there are resources that are not unfavorable to your position there too. inb4 you go through the list to cherry pick and link just those.

Do you have scientific training? Not every publication is equal.

wow, i think you're the one that needs to do their research, firstly your brain doesn't use carbs, it uses the glycogen that your body converts carbs into, the same glycogen that your liver can convert from fatty acids for any needs, also as a side note the majority of your brain will function upto 30% better running from ketone bodies, only a very small amount of glycogen is needed, go read the medical documents like i did before starting keto.

Out of my 29.5kg loss i lost 34kg of fat mass, and gained 4.5kg of muscle mass, so that blows your other comment out the water too.

No, your brain uses glucose. Glycogen and glucose are both carbohydrates.

There is no evidence that your brain "functions better" on ketone bodies. I find it surprising you say you've read up on it when you don't even know the difference between glycogen and glucose, and think that glycogen isn't a carbohydrate. 15 year olds in biology class know that.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Many people in western countries are obese or becoming obese due to a multitude of factors including the following major factors:

-A shitty junk food diet which is mostly processed/refined foods; these low-micronutrient-density, high-caloric-density foods are cheap, abundant, addictive, and convenient to access at all times of the day.
-High anxiety/stress lifestyles
-Lack of physical activity
-Lack of proper sleep
-Overconsumption of alcohol

All of these things in combination will seriously fuck up your metabolism.

 

[Neverwinter27]

What I got out of this thread is that diet soda is ok but fruit is bad

 

[God Dayumm]

Carbs in general get demonized because sugar is also a carb, just like all fats were demonized because of the damaging effects trans-fats. Not to say that eating a lot of carbs is good, but that depends on each person's insulin resistance, some people can eat more than others and efficiently use them for energy and for their anabolic effect, which is better than getting it from an excessive amount of protein.

 

[Greddleok]

I'm so sick of diet threads. They just get filled with a bunch of armchair scientists who either read crap like food babe et al. or peruse pubmed looking at abstracts and titles that agree with their preconceptions.