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[Metallix87]

And why will that happen for sure? Admittedly, I haven't read the whole thread (don't really want to...), so can someone sum up why that will happen? I asked on the last page...

It's wishful thinking from people who are still bitter that Nintendo won last generation by appealing to a new audience. If the HD Twins catch up, it'll take many, MANY years, since the current sales figures don't point to it happening.

 

[Kenai]

I'm not sure what your post has to do with mine. It's not really a response, or even on the same subject. You're talking about the Wii U, I'm talking about the Wii.

My bad! I'm not sure how that happened...

 

[Kageshinzo]

My bad! I'm not sure how that happened...

You should blame the Wii. Or Iwata.

 

[Poimandres]

Not really. If the goal of entering the industry is to make money, then Wii is far beyond with a landslide. Both on hardware and games. The money the HD twins make will perhaps counter the losses caused by their successors and pay for future games.

Yeah, you could make a decent argument that most money = winner. But I also think if people want to determine the winner based on total number of units sold that is equally valid.

Anything outside of those two measures is nonsense. It doesn't really matter because the Wii is the winner of both at the moment... but in the miraculous event that the PS3 outsells the Wii in 3 years time, I think the title of "winner" is open to discussion.

 

[Usually Right]

What does the Wii U have to do with the outcome of the last console generation? Fact = last generation Wii sold the most consoles & made the most profit = therefore won.

They mode the most profit and sold the most consoles by sacrificing a large portion of their audience that they're never going to get back. They won a battle at the expense of a larger war. The war to continue to exist 10 years later.

 

[Metallix87]

They mode the most profit and sold the most consoles by sacrificing a large portion of their audience that they're never going to get back. They won a battle at the expense of a larger war. The war to continue to exist 10 years later.

Can you prove ANY of this?

Also, "large portion" of their audience? The Gamecube sold, what, 25 million units? You really think they can't get most of those people to buy a Wii U eventually, when a lot more first party titles have released?

The fact of the matter is, core gamers abandoned Nintendo, not the other way around, and Nintendo did what they had to do to attract new consumers.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

It's wishful thinking from people who are still bitter that Nintendo won last generation by appealing to a new audience. If the HD Twins catch up, it'll take many, MANY years, since the current sales figures don't point to it happening.

Yup, totally wishful thinking. How many Wiis were sold in 2013?

 

[Hyperactivity]

Yup, totally wishful thinking. How many Wiis were sold in 2013?

And what were Xbox360 and PS3 sales in December. And what will they be in January.

 

[Kageshinzo]

They mode the most profit and sold the most consoles by sacrificing a large portion of their audience that they're never going to get back. They won a battle at the expense of a larger war. The war to continue to exist 10 years later.

You're awfully sure Nintendo will be insignificant from here on out. Any basis on this, aside from the Wii U doing abysmally as of this time? Or are you some time traveler from the future that knows the video game industry will be dominated by Sony, Microsoft, and Amazon?

 

[Metallix87]

Yup, totally wishful thinking. How many Wiis were sold in 2013?

How many 360s and PS3s were sold?

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

How many 360s and PS3s were sold?

PS3 is already sellling ~6 million units for the fiscal year? And is long overdue for a price cut. It still has big games coming out on it for the next two years, and will be sold for the next 7 years (like the PS2) in developing countries. And although the 360 probably won't have the tail that the PS3 has, it's still selling very strong.

And the Wii? Tracking sub 1 million for the fiscal year, and slowing.

 

[Usually Right]

You're awfully sure Nintendo will be insignificant from here on out. Any basis on this, aside from the Wii U doing abysmally as of this time? Or are you some time traveler from the future that knows the video game industry will be dominated by Sony, Microsoft, and Amazon?

I think consoles are pretty much on the way out in general. Especially closed platforms. Sony and MS will last longer because their consoles aren't DOA but neither is going to have a successful console after this gen because it's conceptually antiquated to released dedicated hardware for gaming. I anticipate a future where the platform is standardised and people just release hardware that can play the games, like Android or PC gaming but slightly more user friendly.

Nintendo aren't good at making hardware so they'd have no reason to exist in that scenario outside of being a software creator. I think Iwata will kill them before they realise that though.

 

[Metallix87]

PS3 is already sellling ~6 million units for the fiscal year? And is long overdue for a price cut. It still has big games coming out on it for the next two years, and will be sold for the next 7 years (like the PS2) in developing countries. And although the 360 probably won't have the tail that the PS3 has, it's still selling very strong.

And the Wii? Tracking sub 1 million for the fiscal year, and slowing.

You're ignoring two key factors, of course:

1.) The bulk of those PS3 sales were before the launch of the PS4, same with the Xbox 360 and the Xbone. New systems mean drastically smaller sales figures for the old systems.

2.) "Big games"? Really? Support has dried up in terms of first party content, and all the third party content will also be available on the next gen systems. This is VERY different from previous generations.

 

[encephalon]

I'm saying Wii had some of the best games of its generation.

Mario Galaxy is an easy candidate for game of the generation, if such a title were to be given.

As a gamer why should I care about their relevance to the rest of the industry? Fun games are fun.

So did the Sega Saturn.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

You're ignoring two key factors, of course:

1.) The bulk of those PS3 sales were before the launch of the PS4, same with the Xbox 360 and the Xbone. New systems mean drastically smaller sales figures for the old systems.

2.) "Big games"? Really? Support has dried up in terms of first party content, and all the third party content will also be available on the next gen systems. This is VERY different from previous generations.

1.) Actually no, over half those sales were during the holidays alongside, and after the PS4 launched. Same thing happened with the PS2. The system caught a second wind when the next gen console came out, and it became the cheap default machine for many developing nations.

2.) So games like Ratchet and Clank, Dark Souls 2, and Persona 5, don't count as big? Japan has proven time and time again that it will support older hardware, as long as their is an audience. Those type of titles and the standard cross-gen sports titles were the support that the PS2 received well after it's time had passed, and it managed to do pretty ok for itself, don't you think?

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that Wii sales have been abysmal for awhile, and PS3/360 sales have been healthy. This isn't some fanboy wishful thinking. These are facts.

 

[Mory Dunz]

1.) Actually no, over half those sales were during the holidays alongside, and after the PS4 launched. Same thing happened with the PS2. The system caught a second wind when the next gen console came out, and it became the cheap default machine for many developing nations.

2.) So games like Ratchet and Clank, Dark Souls 2, and Persona 5, don't count as big? Japan has proven time and time again that it will support older hardware, as long as their is an audience. Those type of titles and the standard cross-gen sports titles were the support that the PS2 received well after it's time had passed, and it managed to do pretty ok for itself, don't you think?

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that Wii sales have been abysmal for awhile, and PS3/360 sales have been healthy. This isn't some fanboy wishful thinking. These are facts.

With the new consoles out, I just don't don't see ~40 million new consoles bought that aren't the PS4, X1 (or Wii U, lol). That'd be insane to me. Unless this gen flops...

I see the consoles dropping in sales dramatically. The games that come out can still sell millions without moving new consoles. Just Dance Wii 2014 was one of the biggest sellers this year.

The PS2 was the PS2, and I think the market is smaller because of more competition for entertainment dollars. I guess we'll see when the 360 and PS3 hit ~100 or so dollars to see if there's a second wind.

My personal prediction is ~87-88 million LTD for both consoles when it's all said and done.

But then there's the question of software and profit per console, and I don't know about those.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

With the new consoles out, I just don't don't see ~40 million new consoles bought that aren't the PS4, X1 (or Wii U, lol). That'd be insane to me. Unless this gen flops...

I see the consoles dropping in sales dramatically. The games that come out can still sell millions without moving new consoles. Just Dance Wii 2014 was one of the biggest sellers this year.

The PS2 was the PS2, and I think the market is smaller because of more competition for entertainment dollars. I guess we'll see when the 360 and PS3 hit ~100 or so dollars to see if there's a second wind.

My personal prediction is ~87-88 million LTD for both consoles when it's all said and done.

But then there's the question of software and profit per console, and I don't know about those.

That's a good point, but yea, we'll have to wait till both the 360/PS3 hit bargin bin prices before we can make any definitive call. I think one of the HD twins will hit/pass 100 million. But I'm just saying that declaring that it's not going to happen, when the current trends say otherwise is presumptuous as hell.

 

[Oersted]

That's a good point, but yea, we'll have to wait till both the 360/PS3 hit bargin bin prices before we can make any definitive call. I think one of the HD twins will hit/pass 100 million. But I'm just saying that declaring that it's not going to happen, when the current trends say otherwise is presumptuous as hell.

Aren't PS360 dropping on a YoY basis?

 

[Mory Dunz]

Aren't PS360 dropping on a YoY basis?

That's why he/we are talking about the eventual big price drops. They're way too expensive right now.
We'll have to wait and see. (Personally, I don't think it'll matter too much, so that's my guesstimate)

Fake edit: was the 360 $100 in US this Christmas? I thought someone said that...

 

[Lyriell]

I presume even if PS3 and Wii hit sales parity, the Wii would have made Nintendo more money. I recall the first 2 years of the PS3 never turning a profit.. And then some.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Aren't PS360 dropping on a YoY basis?

Yea. They're doing the best they can at their current prices. They're long overdue for bare-bone prices, which should keep them afloat for a few more years. But even with a YoY drop, it's doing an order of magnitude better than the Wii's <1million.

I presume even if PS3 and Wii hit sales parity, the Wii would have made Nintendo more money. I recall the first 2 years of the PS3 never turning a profit.. And then some.

And this was my original point. The PS3 and 360 could very well pass the Wii, but they were both money sinks, whereas the Wii was practically a money printer.

 

[finch]

Really. 27 pages.

 

[Teletraan1]

Everyone lost last generation when we didnt even get a real light saber game for the Wii. The first time I saw the Wiimote I thought we would get a sick Star Wars light saber game but it never happened.

 

[Yagharek]

Everyone lost last generation when we didnt even get a real light saber game for the Wii. The first time I saw the Wiimote I thought we would get a sick Star Wars light saber game but it never happened.

It's been 30 years since anything good Star Wars came out, be happy we didnt get another bad SW product.

Get Red Steel 2 instead.

 

[Metallix87]

1.) Actually no, over half those sales were during the holidays alongside, and after the PS4 launched. Same thing happened with the PS2. The system caught a second wind when the next gen console came out, and it became the cheap default machine for many developing nations.

2.) So games like Ratchet and Clank, Dark Souls 2, and Persona 5, don't count as big? Japan has proven time and time again that it will support older hardware, as long as their is an audience. Those type of titles and the standard cross-gen sports titles were the support that the PS2 received well after it's time had passed, and it managed to do pretty ok for itself, don't you think?

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that Wii sales have been abysmal for awhile, and PS3/360 sales have been healthy. This isn't some fanboy wishful thinking. These are facts.

1.) I call bull on that. Please provide some data to support your nonsense. PS2 was a unique situation, because the PS3 launched with no games and at $600.

2.) I don't think any of those are "big" in the sense of moving hardware.

I'm not saying that Wii sales haven't been abysmal compared to PS3/360 sales. Find my post where I said that. I said that, with sales dropping YoY, and the current data we have, the gap will likely never be breached, and if it IS breached, it will be MANY years from now.

 

[maltrain]

Nintendo didn't won with Wii.

In fact, they lost BIG TIME.

Why? They sold A LOT, fine... but they failed to establish themselves as an alternative in the long term.

Today, they are DEAD for big consoles because they don't have a truly big fanbase supporting them.

 

[Armaros]

Nintendo didn't won with Wii.

In fact, they lost BIG TIME.

Why? They sold A LOT, fine... but they failed to establish themselves as an alternative in the long term.

Today, they are DEAD for big consoles because they don't have a truly big fanbase supporting them.

So the PS2 didn't win, Sony Lost.

You can so easily tell who hasn't read any of the thread, when they people keep recycling the same arguments that can be used against the console they like.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I'd argue they were really stupid for not capitalizing on the Wii better. A lot of people let it sit after they played Wii Sports, and they probably thought of that when they considered buying the Wii U, thereby winning at losing.


The ones that knew it was a new console and not an addon anyway.

 

[GamerJM]

So did the Sega Saturn.

If the Sega Saturn had the sales of the PS1 then there would be no question it was the winner of its respective gen. What point is this post trying to make?

 

[encephalon]

If the Sega Saturn had the sales of the PS1 then there would be no question it was the winner of its respective gen. What point is this post trying to make?

If the Sega Saturn and the PS1 were reversed, with the same libraries, then the same strange disconnect would be in place. The Wii was without a doubt the "winner" of last generation. But the PS2, PS1, SNES, and NES before it all carried the sales champion title in concert with the best libraries of their generation. Yes, the Wii had "some of the best" games of the previous generation.

 

[maltrain]

So the PS2 didn't win, Sony Lost.

You can so easily tell who hasn't read any of the thread, when they people keep recycling the same arguments that can be used against the console they like.

80 million people is not a big fanbase to you? Wow... I think every console would be happy with a guaranteed 80 million sales...

But if you want to compare... PS2 sold 150 million and PS3 sold 80 millions... let say Sony lost 50%. BUT they went from HUGE (150m) to VERY GOOD (80m).

Wii sold 100 millions... I don't see WiiU selling more than 25 million, so they'll lost 75%. And they'll go from GREAT (100m) to BAD (25m).

In fact, I think Nintendo won't ever make a big console again after this... they'll go to the handhelds and mobile market.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

1.) I call bull on that. Please provide some data to support your nonsense. PS2 was a unique situation, because the PS3 launched with no games and at $600.

2.) I don't think any of those are "big" in the sense of moving hardware.

I'm not saying that Wii sales haven't been abysmal compared to PS3/360 sales. Find my post where I said that. I said that, with sales dropping YoY, and the current data we have, the gap will likely never be breached, and if it IS breached, it will be MANY years from now.

1.) Don't understand what you're getting worked up about. Exhibit A. Sony's Q3, report (October-December). 3.6 million PS3s sold. In Q2, PS3 sold 2.0 million, and in Q1, 1.1 million. More than half of this fiscal year's PS3's sales occurred in the PS4's holiday season.

2.) Ok, can't really argue your opinion, so I guess we'll disagree. However those games will sell millions, no arguing that. And I never said that taking over the Wii will happen tomorrow, but with another price cut and adequate marketing, I could definitely see one of the HD twins pass it. That was the entire point of my original comment. It doesn't matter if it takes "many" years, the point of the OP was that it could very well happen in the future. It's weird that half the responses chose to ignore the premise of the thread.

 

[Metallix87]

If the Sega Saturn and the PS1 were reversed, with the same libraries, then the same strange disconnect would be in place. The Wii was without a doubt the "winner" of last generation. But the PS2, PS1, SNES, and NES before it all carried the sales champion title in concert with the best libraries of their generation. Yes, the Wii had "some of the best" games of the previous generation.

I think I get the point you're trying to make, but what you're ignoring is that, while the Saturn has some great games, they're mostly niche experiences and arcade ports.

It doesn't matter if it takes "many" years, the point of the OP was that it could very well happen in the future. It's weird that half the responses chose to ignore the premise of the thread.

That's nonsensical, then. Who cares if the PS3 overtakes the Wii in 2020? By that point, no one but the most bitter anti-Wii posters will give a damn.

 

[Cipherr]

They sold more units than everyone and made way more money than everyone. What other definition of "winning" is there, unless you're Charlie Sheen?

In his heart of course.... If it didn't win in his heart then it doesn't count.

That was the entire point of my original comment. It doesn't matter if it takes "many" years, the point of the OP was that it could very well happen in the future. It's weird that half the responses chose to ignore the premise of the thread

Noone is ignoring it, last I checked 2nd place was like 10 million plus units behind worldwide with the PS3 and 360 slowing in sales and their replacements on the market.

Coulda shoulda woulda... Talk to me if, IF they manage to close that gap worldwide, otherwise the Wii did win. Stop spinning.

A better question is why does the Wii winning still burn peoples souls so damned badly. That was years ago, the WiiU PS4 and One are out now.... How is it that you haven't accepted it and moved on by now?

 

[encephalon]

I think I get the point you're trying to make, but what you're ignoring is that, while the Saturn has some great games, they're mostly niche experiences and arcade ports.



That's nonsensical, then. Who cares if the PS3 overtakes the Wii in 2020? By that point, no one but the most bitter anti-Wii posters will give a damn.

Okay? Given the "niche" qualifier, I wonder if it matters to you that despite your emphasis on "exclusives," the wii failed to procure the popular multiplats that strengthened the libraries of the HD twins relative to the Wii?

 

[Oersted]

Yea. They're doing the best they can at their current prices. They're long overdue for bare-bone prices, which should keep them afloat for a few more years. But even with a YoY drop, it's doing an order of magnitude better than the Wii's <1million.

And this was my original point. The PS3 and 360 could very well pass the Wii, but they were both money sinks, whereas the Wii was practically a money printer.

You talked about beating the 100 mil sales figure, now about beating Wii in its later years.

 

[Armaros]

80 million people is not a big fanbase to you? Wow... I think every console would be happy with a guaranteed 80 million sales...

But if you want to compare... PS2 sold 150 million and PS3 sold 80 millions... let say Sony lost 50%. BUT they went from HUGE (150m) to VERY GOOD (80m).

Wii sold 100 millions... I don't see WiiU selling more than 25 million, so they'll lost 75%. And they'll go from GREAT (100m) to BAD (25m).

In fact, I think Nintendo won't ever make a big console again after this... they'll go to the handhelds and mobile market.

The PS3 was sold at a massive loss for multiple years, Sony lost half of their marketshare to MS. They lost billions on manufacturing costs, and were trailing the entire generation.

While the Wii sold the most hardware and software, all at a profit with about half the of software sales coming straight from Nintendo. Nintendo lost less money on the WiiU then Sony did on the PS3.
Hell Nintendo was the only one making any money.

If you want to use that kind of logic, Sony fell harder then Nintendo did, as well as lost more money.

 

[DeaviL]

80 million people is not a big fanbase to you? Wow... I think every console would be happy with a guaranteed 80 million sales...

But if you want to compare... PS2 sold 150 million and PS3 sold 80 millions... let say Sony lost 50%. BUT they went from HUGE (150m) to VERY GOOD (80m).

Wii sold 100 millions... I don't see WiiU selling more than 25 million, so they'll lost 75%. And they'll go from GREAT (100m) to BAD (25m).

In fact, I think Nintendo won't ever make a big console again after this... they'll go to the handhelds and mobile market.

Well...
If you're going PS2 to PS3, let's also go GC to Wii or PS3 to PS4 maybe?

 

[Storm Chamber]

Does this really matter at all? Is this really worth having a 10 page discussion about?

*27

 

[maltrain]

The PS3 was sold at a massive loss for multiple years, Sony lost half of their marketshare to MS. They lost billions on manufacturing costs, and were trailing the entire generation.

While the Wii sold the most hardware and software, all at a profit with about half the of software sales coming straight from Nintendo. Nintendo lost less money on the WiiU then Sony did on the PS3.
Hell Nintendo was the only one making any money.

If you want to use that kind of logic, Sony fell harder then Nintendo did, as well as lost more money.

I won't argue about this. You won't change my mind and I won't change what you think.

 

[Metallix87]

Okay? Given the "niche" qualifier, I wonder if it matters to you that despite your emphasis on "exclusives," the wii failed to procure the popular multiplats that strengthened the libraries of the HD twins relative to the Wii?

I'm not sure that matters in this case.

 

[d[-_-]b]

I don't understand why there is some imaginary metric now for "winning" a generation. Quite frankly we all might as well just start calling whichever we console we prefer as a winner. Clearly neither PS3 nor the Xbox 360 outsold the Wii, yet some how we're having this discussion, "oh the games I like weren't on the Wii" so it didn't win.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

You talked about beating the 100 mil sales figure, now about beating Wii in its later years.

What are you talking? Read my first post in this thread. I clearly say that Wii was most profitable.

I think I get the point you're trying to make, but what you're ignoring is that, while the Saturn has some great games, they're mostly niche experiences and arcade ports.



That's nonsensical, then. Who cares if the PS3 overtakes the Wii in 2020? By that point, no one but the most bitter anti-Wii posters will give a damn.

Lol, but that's the point of the thread! I expected those "it won't even matter by 2020" responses, because you can say that people besides diehard fanboys wouldn't give a shit by then, but i'm not the one who wrote the OP. I'm not even saying it matters besides dick swinging rights, but yeah, that's why my whole back and forth with you is basically, "yea, it won't be for awhile, but that doesn't make the OP wrong."

Sorry if that didn't translate through my posts, haha.

 

[encephalon]

I'm not sure that matters in this case.

I'm pretty sure it matters to the strength of the Wii's library.

 

[StevieP]

The ps3 is not and will not be the ps2. Not just in terms of library/value, but because of the cost to build. It may take a very long time, if it ever does, to reach 100 bucks before fire selling stock happens. It's sales are already in a decline yoy.

It's embarrassing that people are still trying to use metrics outside of sales/money made - the same metrics used at any other time and will continue to be used going forward. The "people bought it for Wii sports and it collected dust" arguments are just as invalid because the tie ratio is comparable to other consoles (nearly 900 million pieces of software sold on over 100 million units - more than half of which was third party iirc).

 

[Metallix87]

I'm pretty sure it matters to the strength of the Wii's library.

The Wii library is much more varied than the Saturn's, and has wider appeal overall. That's why it did as well as it did. Comparing it to the Saturn is nonsensical. How did this comparison even come about? I've forgotten already!

 

[redcrayon]

Unlike the Wii which basically sputtered to a halt after two-three years,the PS2 continued strong for... seven years or so? The PS3 started weak and gained steady momentum without pause. For an expensive console, its sales are really as impressive as the low-priced Wii. Ditto for 360. The games for those consoles continued coming long after Nintendo gave up on the Wii (an admission of failure in my eyes).

If we could grade all aspects of the three consoles (hardware, software, customer satisfaction, company responsiveness, new features added over time, lasting appeal, future growth, mind share, etc.), does anyone in an unbiased, rational state of mind really place Wii above the other consoles? I don't see it.

What does the length of time a product is on the shelves matter? The Wii selling 100m in a very short space of time isn't a bad thing considering that Nintendo's consoles tend to revolve around a five year lifespan, rather than a ten year one. Nintendo's failure to have a product ready for the handover was the critical error, one that they are paying for, but it seems pointless to judge them by their failure to adhere to other companies business models when they made all of their sales in a far shorter period. That's wild success they failed to capitalise on, not a failed adherence to a non-existent ten year plan.

It's not about 'placing the Wii above the other consoles' based on your new arbitrary criteria that conveniently discounts the things most commonly used as a measure of success to define a 'win', being hardware sales and, less often, profits, both of which put the Wii out in front. My point was purely that the issues a following console has don't detract from the high hardware sales of its predecessor when that has been the measure of success for 30 years.

If you want to argue about the company's future prospects after the Wii, then fine, we can probably agree on stuff there. If you want to argue over your personal list of criteria, then there had probably been a thirty page gaf thread on every single one over the last half-dozen years. But the criteria for this thread is 'did the Wii win or not', to which the answer is, by the criteria used for every previous generation, yes.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Because it did.

 

[metalslimer]

Before last year there seemed to be a good possibility the Wii would be outside. It's pretty much impossible now. PS4 adoption is much quicker than most people expected. The system will sell at most 1 million more in Japan. I guess we could talk about emerging markets, but how much can Sony get the price of the PS3 down. It seems they are not ever interested in a 99 dollar SKU which is about the only chance they have of outselling the Wii. And the 360 just has 0 chance of doing it considering it's status in most countries outside of America.

 

[SmokyDave]

That's nonsensical, then. Who cares if the PS3 overtakes the Wii in 2020? By that point, no one but the most bitter anti-Wii posters will give a damn.

People that want to know who sold the most consoles in Gen 7 will care. Whether they review the data in 2020 or 2090, they'll want to know who sold the most. If the PS3 did overtake the Wii (which I find unlikely), it would rightfully be classed as the winner.

It would also be interesting for the fact that nobody has won 3 gens in a row before. Even more interesting if the PS4 won Gen 8.