Metallix87
Member
Do you honestly believe this utter nonsense?
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Why do people keep saying that "Wii won last gen?"
- Thread starter Comandr
- Start date
Do you honestly believe this utter nonsense?
EatinOlives
Member
Skimp they did, sorry. I vividly remember E3 '08 where their biggest headliners were Wii Music, Chinatown Wars on the DS, Shawn White Snowboarding, and Animal Crossing: City Folk. That was it. People begged Miyamoto for anything else at the roundtable later that conference and he could only reveal Pikmin 3's existence and one piece of artwork from Skyward Sword.
And I don't know why you'd sweep quality under the rug. They left many, many of their IPs with either a half-assed entry or flat out ignored. The majority of their efforts were focused on 2D platfomers that barely even used motion gaming at all in the latter half of the Wii's life. The true must-haves for the entire system I would say are the Mario Galaxy games, Xenoblade, Brawl (which I personally disliked but it'd be silly to not include it), DKCR, and Skyward Sword. The rest of their first party efforts are definitely something that I could, and did, live without.
If we're arguing sales and profit then, yeah, the Wii won its gen (so far).
But, I can definitely see why some people ask the question.
Last gen was the first where there undisputed market leader did NOT receive the brunt of 3rd party attention. In fact, by the second half of it's life the Wii was all but abandoned by gamers and the community at large. Wii spent most of its life in its own bubble. A highly successful bubble, but a bubble nonetheless.
It's hard to say that the Wii won its gen when its hype died out so quickly. It was the very definition of a fad against two systems that would remain relevant throughout the entire gen and get the lion's share of industry attention.
It can be called either way, if you ask me.
But, I can definitely see why some people ask the question.
Last gen was the first where there undisputed market leader did NOT receive the brunt of 3rd party attention. In fact, by the second half of it's life the Wii was all but abandoned by gamers and the community at large. Wii spent most of its life in its own bubble. A highly successful bubble, but a bubble nonetheless.
It's hard to say that the Wii won its gen when its hype died out so quickly. It was the very definition of a fad against two systems that would remain relevant throughout the entire gen and get the lion's share of industry attention.
It can be called either way, if you ask me.
The Wii winning and Nintendo trying to capitalize on it by calling it a Wii U is what killed the Wii U. They went too far and died. They forgot that the masses that made the Wii successful is also ignorant of gaming and do not know what the Wii U actually is.
Metallix87
Member
People want to lump them together to make it look like Nintendo lost in a big way last gen.
EatinOlives
Member
Metroid Prime 1, Smash Bros Melee, F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe? Are you insane?
It's ok, ignorance is bliss
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Yep, the Wii was not a direct competitor to the PS3 & 360 and the numbers it sold meant little to most major publishers.
This is really more "most western and some Japanese developers/publishers want to be all inclusive, many smaller Japanese developers/publishers didn't care or couldn't afford to bother with 360", and combined with Microsoft's weakening development/publishing efforts ended up handing the end game crown for library to PS3, even though earlier on the 360 was a clear winner for both better performing games and many titles that simply weren't on PS3.
Not that it'd surprise me that if there's one clear winner in regards to marketshare/library in the end it ends up being PS3, but given how stupid strong 360 sales are even now I'm not too confident in that. But then there really isn't a clear winner of last gen like how PS1 and especially PS2 more or less obliterated everyone else. Wii probably brought in the most money, 360 was an enormous leap forward from where the OG Xbox was and seemingly won the mindshare game in the US, and PS3 has more reliable success globally despite the rockiest start. It really looks more like a three way tie to me based on which looks most important to you.
No, I'd say it's more because they share so much of the 3rd party library and may actually be the two closest consoles ever in terms of performance. The PS4 and XB1 highlight how much of an anomaly the PS3/360 really were in that regard, every other generation had significant power differences or looks for each console, whereas on many games the most surefire way to tell PS3 and 360 apart once you'rein the middle of a game is what controller you're using. So they're sort of like two unrelated people who happen to look exactly the same.
Granted, there's the angle that they're in HD and the Wii wasn't, but that's a very clear cut technical difference.
ShockingAlberto
Member
When the rest of the internet mocks GAF, this kind of thread is why.
Metallix87
Member
I'm not sure how this invalidates some of the amazing exclusive content on Wii?
Either that or people like to highlight the unique qualities of the Wii as a positive.
It was a general strategy to include the "twins" together against the Wii in order to otherize either side depending on position.
Comandr
Member
Persona 5, Destiny, Tales of, and many other games coming out this year are not "c-tier."
Also: What have I created?
Cow Goes Moo
Member
Didn't VJoe come out on ps2 too?
EatinOlives
Member
That no game on the Wii except for possibly the Mario Galaxy games came close to being as good as they were at the time of release.
Believe me, I was there. I was a Wii apologist from '06-'09. My mental gymnastic idea of "amazing exclusives" was Deadly Creatures and Blast Works.
This kind of topic pops by around every month or so. 
Wii sold the most. Prior to last generation, it was always about sales. People never said the Xbox won, because it made HDD and online services (Live) the standards in console gaming; but focused on the 150+ million the PS2 sold and the amount of money it made for Sony and the third parties (even when the PS3 took a decline after).
Though last gen was way different than the previous one. Xbox taking a chunk of the PlayStation, Nintendo introducing underpowered (compared to others) hardware, the PS3 and 360 going over 6 years and still doing well. The gen had many curveballs that prior gens didn't, so it's hard to point to a "winner" in those aspects. But as far as sales, it was the Wii. Now, combining sales of the "HD twins" and/or waiting till the PS3 and 360 are officially dead is another thing.
Wii sold the most. Prior to last generation, it was always about sales. People never said the Xbox won, because it made HDD and online services (Live) the standards in console gaming; but focused on the 150+ million the PS2 sold and the amount of money it made for Sony and the third parties (even when the PS3 took a decline after).
Though last gen was way different than the previous one. Xbox taking a chunk of the PlayStation, Nintendo introducing underpowered (compared to others) hardware, the PS3 and 360 going over 6 years and still doing well. The gen had many curveballs that prior gens didn't, so it's hard to point to a "winner" in those aspects. But as far as sales, it was the Wii. Now, combining sales of the "HD twins" and/or waiting till the PS3 and 360 are officially dead is another thing.
The PS3 finished strong, but only after spending a long time losing a lot of money. In terms of raw sales, the 360 and the PS3 are very competitive, but 360 wins in terms of gaining market share and actually improving immensely over its predecessor. The Wii was not only the king in terms of sales, but in terms of profit margins, as well. And while it did have a weak end of life, the fruits of what it accomplished are evident to this day.
In general, I think it's pretty easy to understand why people say the Wii won last gen. It's fairly clear, in my eyes, that the PS3 did not win, and while you could make a better case for the 360 being victorious, it hardly dominates the metrics you'd usually use to judge victory. If you're basing this on what the system brings to the table in terms of games, hardware, or whatever else, you're taking the discussion into more subjective territory - which is fine, but poor grounds for refusing to see the obvious.
Does it matter who "won" last gen, though? Not really. All three console makers made strong contributions to the medium, and each had their strengths and weaknesses throughout the generation. None of the consoles were harmed, on balance, by the relative success of the others - particularly in the case of the Wii. And the environment today is completely different from the environment the last generation began in. So, all in all, I don't see much incentive for the revisionist history.
In general, I think it's pretty easy to understand why people say the Wii won last gen. It's fairly clear, in my eyes, that the PS3 did not win, and while you could make a better case for the 360 being victorious, it hardly dominates the metrics you'd usually use to judge victory. If you're basing this on what the system brings to the table in terms of games, hardware, or whatever else, you're taking the discussion into more subjective territory - which is fine, but poor grounds for refusing to see the obvious.
Does it matter who "won" last gen, though? Not really. All three console makers made strong contributions to the medium, and each had their strengths and weaknesses throughout the generation. None of the consoles were harmed, on balance, by the relative success of the others - particularly in the case of the Wii. And the environment today is completely different from the environment the last generation began in. So, all in all, I don't see much incentive for the revisionist history.
Metallix87
Member
Obviously it meant little to major publishers, because they banked BIG on HD development, and it bit them in the ass early on, I'd say, as Wii exploded out of the gates, while 360 did pretty good at best and PS3 lagged behind and flailed around like a fish out of water. Essentially, third parties had to work their asses off and spend TONS of money to prove their investment wasn't poor, and eventually, they made it happen, though there were many casualties along the way. That being said, though, all of this does not change the fact that the Wii was a direct competitor, as evidenced by PS Move and Kinect being reactionary responses to it's success. If they were truly in different "markets", the competition would not have responded as they did.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
The wii definitely "won" last gen. It sold like gangbusters (and then promptly fell off a cliff, but I digress).
It is however, in my opinion, the first console "winner" who deserved it the least. For example, PS1, PS2, SNES, and NES were the hottest shit on the block in their respective generations when it was all said and done. Both in terms of a combination of quality/quantity gaming and sales success. Wii will never be in the same tier as the above mentioned consoles no matter how much it sales because it's gaming quantity/quality wasn't even the best in it's generation... hell, it wasn't even SECOND best in it's generation.
It is however, in my opinion, the first console "winner" who deserved it the least. For example, PS1, PS2, SNES, and NES were the hottest shit on the block in their respective generations when it was all said and done. Both in terms of a combination of quality/quantity gaming and sales success. Wii will never be in the same tier as the above mentioned consoles no matter how much it sales because it's gaming quantity/quality wasn't even the best in it's generation... hell, it wasn't even SECOND best in it's generation.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Nintendo brought their A game last generation, just like they have for every console. Third party support keeps drying up however which means the gaps between their releases are even more pronounced than ever.
Persona 5 alone makes the PS3 relevant. That console is having quite a bit of life squeezed out of it.
Shmuely Bully
Member
The Wii won last gen if you're just talking sales. If you're talking about quality games on the other hand I figure it wasn't really even in the running after 2010.
Last generation was also the closest sales-wise of any since the SNES and GEN were fighting for marketshare so a win was less meaningful. The upside of that is few missed out on decent multiplats, the downside is we didn't get many decent third-party exclusives.
Last generation was also the closest sales-wise of any since the SNES and GEN were fighting for marketshare so a win was less meaningful. The upside of that is few missed out on decent multiplats, the downside is we didn't get many decent third-party exclusives.
Metallix87
Member
What is and isn't a worthwhile exclusive varies from person to person, but for what it's worth, I still say that the best console exclusives last gen, by far, were on Wii.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
It also had the 2nd best 3rd party game of the generation (though Vita now has it too).
Supermanisdead
Member
Nintendo sold the most systems.
But Wii never got Sadness.
But Wii never got Sadness.
Completely agreed.
Outside of its sales, the Wii had none of the markings of a true market leader.
All other generation "winners" were declared so because of their sales, and gen 8 likely will as well. But since we don't like the way in which Nintendo achieved its sales, we're going to arbitrarily disqualify them from an imaginary title to spare us the shame of having our beloved hobby dominated by a "fad" for an entire generation. Am I getting warmer?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Worldwide both are give or take 20 million units behind.
In America 360 is behind, but just barely. PS3 just had a really bad Dec. This leads me to believe PS4 is cheap enough to all but kill PS3. PS3 will get within 10 million units of Wii before Sony ceases production. It's too costly a design to keep supporting, especially when PS4 will have access to a good chunk of its library through their very ingenious partnership with Gaikai.
PS3 was a boondoggle that Sony rode to a modicum of success. And they've kept it alive for longer than I would have initially expected. But it's had a good run, and it costs too much for any more drastic die shrinks. Especially when they've got an initially very popular PS4 using off shelf cheap variant parts that will only get cheaper the faster you can produce them.
PS4 is more than likely Sony's primary focus in gaming from launch out. The margins on that thing are going to look really good really fast.
Metallix87
Member
Sounds about right. I'm not even sure what the big deal is. Yes, Nintendo attracted a new group of consumers to the gaming industry. So what? Weren't Sega and then Sony and then Microsoft also guilty of that to some degree? This isn't anything new, and it's not like Nintendo didn't provide content for their core users.
Completely disagree and that's why I say the quality is subjective. I thought Nintendo's output on Wii was the best since the SNES era. I could sit here listing off all the great games Nintendo put out for the Wii but I don't think list wars are a great means of debate. The system also got quite a few great third party exclusives that many people ignored. It's not wonder so many don't fully appreciate the Wii when they don't take the time to delve into the software library available.
Just because they had poor showings at E3's (we can't forget E3 2003) doesn't mean they had a "scarce" lineup for the entire life of the system...
Supermanisdead
Member
sales are the only markings of a market leader. its called a market for a reason.
Zeyphersan
Banned
The Wii won last gen so hard, it's faded completely out of relevance and the competitors have yet to catch up, even as they kept a strong library.
Plus Nintendo made the most money off their system versus the others. So in terms of total units sold and total money made, Nintendo won both. How can anyone say they DIDN'T win?
Plus Nintendo made the most money off their system versus the others. So in terms of total units sold and total money made, Nintendo won both. How can anyone say they DIDN'T win?
I'd agree with that. Including game availability on PC, the 360 and PS3 were lacking in that department.
shouamabane
Member
I quit reading at this point.
Why not Boom Blox, Little King's Story, Zack and Wiki, Endless Ocean, Wii Sports Resort, Rabbids Go Home, Trauma Team, Monster Hunter 3, Hose of the Dead: Overkill, Punch-Out!!, Rhythm Heaven, Excitebots, Red Steel 2, Muramasa, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, No More Heroes 2, fucking Sin and Punishment
The Wii's library was ridiculously varied and had some amazing games if you went beyond the AAA. I don't think you require any mental gymnastics to enjoy a library like this. If you can't enjoy a library like this, at least understand that for those who did, it was a great time owning a Wii. It was fun.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
I'm confused, did anyone say the Wii has no games ?!
Your post if anything solidifies the notion that Nintendo isolated themselves with the Wii and became irrelevant to the rest of the industry. Simply selling units is meaningless as far as competition is concerned if you cannot get publishers as your clients.
Ok, I'll revise my statement:
"Outside of its sales, the Wii had none of the traditional markings of a true market leader."
Better?
Dion Blaster
Member
It's crazy how the Wii sales dropped off a cliff a few years ago. And the other two consoles are still both 20 million units behind. Incredible.
Metallix87
Member
The best part about the Wii right now is that the vast majority of the great games for the platform are relatively inexpensive to dirt cheap right now.
I would disagree with that, as well. Traditionally, the market leader is able to cast a wide net to attract more and more consumers, and usually has powerful, high-selling exclusives to push the system to first place. How is that not the Wii?
What you're likely trying to say is this: "The Wii wasn't predominantly successful because of hardcore, mature-oriented content, and thus it doesn't fit my mental image for a market leader", and that's an entirely different issue.
Dion Blaster
Member
But it had tons of shovelware and the lowest specs!
The 360 got a second wind after the release of the Kinect.