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[samoilaaa]

Its like most stories coming from these young guys dont have that epicness or maturity that older games had , like planescape torment , half life , Kotor

Most games written by young writers either have uninteresting characters or uninteresting events , or in worst case both , the dialog seems so cringe and the story is like watching one of those teen drama series , comparing an old story game with a new story game is like comparing True detective season 1 with Riverdale

Its really annoying , i hope this will be fixed somehow

 

[Skyfox]

Low financial incentive

 

[Unknown?]

Low financial incentive

You're saying people got paid better back in the early 2000s?

Also of that's the reason, they might as well just find a different career.You'll never make it with mediocrity.

 

[FewRope]

Marvel dialogue is the cause of all of this

 

[three_muffins]

Delusional nostalgia.

 

[Ballthyrm]

1. Confirmation bias, you only remember the good games, not the countless bad ones
2. Writing has to be at the front of the game experience or It will be by default the last wheel of the dev priority due to the better flexibility over other areas of game devs
3. Stories aren't necessary in most games so they take the backseat
4. Games are interactive, writers have to take player agency into account and it's hard
5. The best writers will write books, second best will write TV show, third best will write movies, fourth best will write games maybe

 

[dreamstation]

I'm no expert but originality is the issue. Why take a risk and write something new when you can chase the current trend or fad?

 

[STARSBarry]

You're saying people got paid better back in the early 2000s?

Also of that's the reason, they might as well just find a different career.You'll never make it with mediocrity.

I did just that in gaming in the early 2000's, I saw what other industries where paying. The only people who work in gaming want to work in gaming, it's like anything creative, that means you are low balled because you have creatives jumping at the chance to get in. This also means experienced people who generally have bills to pay and family responsibility drop out for better paid more stable alternatives.

Leaving with you fresh recruits or the very worst the industry has to offer if they are willing to work for 30-50% below standard. It's only the few who make a "name" for themselves who get past this, and normally they are forced into larger responsibility like "creative director"

 

[ahtlas7]

Is it a lack of talent or a lack of hiring talent.

 

[Pejo]

The best art comes from real life experiences and the pain of the artist. Everyone now has it pretty damn good, historically speaking, so how do you expect someone with no hardships to write a compelling story? That's my take on it at least.

The perceived modern issues like equity/the -isms/identity are what they're drawing from the majority of the time which just aren't really good for fiction and don't make for fun stories.

I think in another decade or two we should start seeing more good stories about AI gone bad and the lack of humanity in the human world, but we're not to that point yet.

 

[Guilty_AI]

A. You only remember the good ones. We had plenty of cringe back in the day too.
B. You were younger. Even the cringy stuff you'd see in better light then than your current 20 year older self would.
C. Cultural rot pervasing the large entertainment industries. It's not like there isn't good stories today, its just that you'll see all the DEI-isms being highlighted by the mainstream channels.
D. Young writers will naturally have less life experience than older ones.
F. There'll be huge differences between someone with knowledge on a subject telling a story through a game vs a group of developers who hired a random writer to give some substance to their new looter shooter.

 

[Wildebeest]

I think writers are one of the professions where people get better with age. A lot of it is based on life experience, long term planning and empathy. Younger people are into more immediate rewards. They don't have so much experience of realising how much they fucked up by rushing into things without having any real clue what was going on. There might be a preference with younger people for trying to capture a Zeitgeist of them and their social group, writing some super atomically specific "relatable" story about their personal life and circumstances and how special and unique people exactly like them are.

 

[killatopak]

Current media is what shapes the future. The past shapes the present. Of course there are some incentives as well like money.

Some obvious stuff like DEI giving money for doing checkmark writing. Overcompensating the gamergate shit that happened in the past.

As long such things aren't rewarded with money and customers vote with their wallet, the trend will correct itself barring artificial roadblocks.

 

[samoilaaa]

The best art comes from real life experiences and the pain of the artist. Everyone now has it pretty damn good, historically speaking, so how do you expect someone with no hardships to write a compelling story? That's my take on it at least.

The perceived modern issues like equity/the -isms/identity are what they're drawing from the majority of the time which just aren't really good for fiction and don't make for fun stories.

I think in another decade or two we should start seeing more good stories about AI gone bad and the lack of humanity in the human world, but we're not to that point yet.

your comment about lack of humanity subject reminded me of blade runner 2049 , my god that movie was amazing , i wish we would get an open world blade runner game with deep rpg elements , branching storyline , dark mature tone , philosophycal themes about human nature , it will most likely never happen

 

[Schmendrick]

Selective perception.
The amount of trash today isn`t different to what it was 20 years ago, we simply tend to fortget mediocrity very fast which is why this thread exists.

 

[Hugare]

Writters raised in an era of short attention span and internet dialog

They are a reflection of the society they inhabit.

 

[samoilaaa]

A. You only remember the good ones. We had plenty of cringe back in the day too.
B. You were younger. Even the cringy stuff you'd see in better light then than your current 20 year older self would.
C. Cultural rot pervasing the large entertainment industries. It's not like there isn't good stories today, its just that you'll see all the DEI-isms being highlighted by the mainstream channels.
D. Young writers will naturally have less life experience than older ones.
F. There'll be huge differences between someone with knowledge on a subject telling a story through a game vs a group of developers who hired a random writer to give some substance to their new looter shooter.I

i dont remember only the good ones , there were alot of bad games those days too but thing is that in a year we would have something like 10 bad games 7-8 average games and 2-3 that were really good , now we get 20 bad games and 2-3 average games that we consider very good because the bar is set so low

And nostalgia isnt a factor in my case because i played portal games for the 1st time in november 2022 and the writing / gameplay is till better than alot of modern games , and many 30+ gamers play 90's early 00's games for the 1st time and still consider them very good even if some of the mechanics are outdated or the game is clunchy

dont get me wrong there are many good modern games too like baldur's gate 3 , Divinity original sin 2 , talos principle , soma , disco elysium etc. , im not one of those guy that says "ohh everything new is crap things were better back in my day"

 

[ZehDon]

Well, don't confuse "new" writers with "young" writers. A lot of the old guard weren't exactly spring chickens when they penned their opus, and a lot of the writers turning out slop today aren't that much different age wise.

I suspect focus and goals are just that much different, so we notice things today we wouldn't have in the 90s. Back in the day, gameplay was often the focus, which let a lot of bad writing slide. Today, games can largely copy and paste gameplay systems devs already know work - so writing gets a spotlight on it because that's where devs can really differentiate themselves. As for goals, writing used to know its point: justify the gameplay and bring contextual weight to the choices afforded to the player. Today, writing often is the point, so the goals aren't really tied to the player, but to the writer. Instead of wanting to make sure the cool gameplay, worlds and choices that the game contains makes sense for the player, the writer's goals can ignore the player (singular) entirely and instead focus on "the audience" (plural). So, we get writing intended to "educate", "represent", or "inform" instead of entertain.

 

[Guilty_AI]

i dont remember only the good ones , there were alot of bad games those days too but thing is that in a year we would have something like 10 bad games 7-8 average games and 2-3 that were really good , now we get 20 bad games and 2-3 average games that we consider very good because the bar is set so low

And nostalgia isnt a factor in my case because i played portal games for the 1st time in november 2022 and the writing / gameplay is till better than alot of modern games , and many 30+ gamers play 90's early 00's games for the 1st time and still consider them very good even if some of the mechanics are outdated or the game is clunchy

Let's try a different approach, what specific games with bad writing were you thinking of when you made this thread? What about the average ones amongst the new you referred to?

 

[Tajaz2426]

Simple, everything they write about they get from what they see in the mirror and the perceived grievances they have with apparently the whole darn universe. Not even realizing they are not, nor have they ever been oppressed.

Not about fantasy, creating an epic space war story, some epic love story like the notebook because that would make women look weak and need an archaic man, etc.

Doesn’t make for interesting reading, or interesting media at large when every show is the same tripe. My opinion, only and very simplified.

 

[JCK75]

You have people writing characters who have never had meaningful interactions with humans outside of their personal bubble.. they did not grow up reading the classics they grew up on Harry Potter..
They have no real world experience and don't understand normal, everyday people.

 

[semiconscious]

 

[winjer]

Don't worry, from now on, AI will write our stories.

Company cuts costs by replacing 60-strong writing team with AI

A writer using the pseudonym Benjamin Miller told the BBC that his company wanted to use AI to cut costs in early 2023. He led a team...

www.techspot.com

 

[Northeastmonk]

You have people writing characters who have never had meaningful interactions with humans outside of their personal bubble.. they did not grow up reading the classics they grew up on Harry Potter..
They have no real world experience and don't understand normal, everyday people.

I remember a young vocalist named Tate McRae had a song about breakup. She was criticized because she’s never been in a relationship. She was like 16 or 17 writing the song.

I don’t care about the age of the writer. It’s what they write that matters. If it stands the test of time, that’s what matters. I don’t ever sit down and contemplate the age of the artist I’m enjoying. I do agree that there was crap then and there’s crap now. Ageism is an excuse for bad art. We live in a day and age where a person is harassing other people in public and that gets them 2-5 million views. They’re living better than people working honest jobs.

I think the game’s industry is catering to diversity and calling that in and of itself art. Whatever breaks the stereotype is somehow the next best thing. It’ll take time, but their shallow attempts of building a story out of that will show its true colors.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Don't worry, from now on, AI will write our stories.

Company cuts costs by replacing 60-strong writing team with AI

A writer using the pseudonym Benjamin Miller told the BBC that his company wanted to use AI to cut costs in early 2023. He led a team...

www.techspot.com

60 writers and editors who published blog posts and articles to promote a tech company that packages and resells data.

I think this is a very different scenario we're seeing here.

 

[winjer]

I think this is a very different scenario we're seeing here.

It's where it starts.

 

[balls of snow]

The people who wrote Disco Elysium are young.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The people who wrote Disco Elysium is young.

But they're eastern europeans, and main writer was sent to a mental institution. Sort of increases their worth as story-tellers.

 

[FewRope]

But they're eastern europeans, and main writer was sent to a mental institution. Sort of increases their worth as story-tellers.

This reads as a meme but it truly isnt, its 100% the truth

 

[baphomet]

Video game writers have always been awful.

 

[Boss Mog]

Because companies are more interested in hiring activists as writers than actual talented writers.

 

[Guilty_AI]

It's where it starts.

i don't know, i've noticed AIs tend to be very bad at continuity, factual and even more so thematically. Which makes sense since this is reaching the realm of AGI.

 

[winjer]

i don't know, i've noticed AIs tend to be very bad at continuity, factual and even more so thematically. Which makes sense since this is reaching the realm of AGI.

I have seen several writers using AI as a tool to increase productivity.
Sometimes to draft something. Sometimes to proof read. Etc.
The thing is, AI is getting better with each passing month. So I would not be surprised if more and more writers are replaced.
And a lot of writing is not Shakespearian level. So it's not very difficult for AI to reach such level.

 

[makaveli60]

Because they hire political activists who are, let’s be honest, not so clever therefore lack the skills to write well.

 

[JCK75]

I remember a young vocalist named Tate McRae had a song about breakup. She was criticized because she’s never been in a relationship. She was like 16 or 17 writing the song.

I don’t care about the age of the writer. It’s what they write that matters. If it stands the test of time, that’s what matters. I don’t ever sit down and contemplate the age of the artist I’m enjoying. I do agree that there was crap then and there’s crap now. Ageism is an excuse for bad art. We live in a day and age where a person is harassing other people in public and that gets them 2-5 million views. They’re living better than people working honest jobs.

I think the game’s industry is catering to diversity and calling that in and of itself art. Whatever breaks the stereotype is somehow the next best thing. It’ll take time, but their shallow attempts of building a story out of that will show its true colors.

It's not an age thing, it's an experience thing.. you are correct in WHO they are catering to, and these people have no understanding of the things they are writing about... you don't NEED to have experienced something if you've read about it enough.. but they have not even put in that much work before being put in a writing room.

When I think about modern writers I think of this scene

 

[Guilty_AI]

I have seen several writers using AI as a tool to increase productivity.
Sometimes to draft something. Sometimes to proof read. Etc.

Yes, that's the proper use for it, an auxiliary tool. But the fact remains you still need humans to create a story that makes sense and is enjoyable to read.

 

[ToadMan]

Most gamers get the writing they are capable of comprehending. Simple tropes and set ups because that's about all they can grasp. Good guy / bad guy, done.

Creating something more challenging and integrating it into a video game format is hard, risky and unlikely to generate more sales because gamers can't recognise good writing, and in some cases actively backlash against it (TLOU 2).

Why would a talented writer want their work upstaged by gaming technology and constrained by the comprehension of an unsophisticated audience? Better to put it in a book or movie where the writing is unambiguously front and center.

 

[TGO]

Selective perception.
The amount of trash today isn`t different to what it was 20 years ago, we simply tend to fortget mediocrity very fast which is why this thread exists.

So you're saying the trash writers of yesteryear are the leading the way the AAA's today.

Seriously this is nonsense, yes there was crap back then but you knew what was going to be trash.
Now, everything regardless of budget is trash because the writers are all trash and have some mission to educate the world.

ToadMan
No TLOU2 was trash, a lot of convenience to push the story forward or in the direction they wanted.
Which is trash writing.

 

[Schmendrick]

So you're saying the trash writers of yesteryear are the leading the way the AAA's today.

Seriously this is nonsense, yes there was crap back then but you knew what was going to be trash.
Now, everything regardless of budget is trash because the writers are all trash and have some mission to educate the world.

Your field of vision seems to be a tunnel....

 

[Buggy Loop]

Alright

I'm a publisher

I ask you to write an epic story worth 100 hours of gameplay, but it has to be politically correct and have diversity. Should especially not shock anyone of any backgrounds or beliefs.

 

[Games of Today]

Marvel dialogue is the cause of all of this

This and sweet baby inc. No one is unique anymore.

 

[FunkMiller]

I can't speak for the video games industry specifically, and I'm UK/Europe based, so there's that too... but I've noticed over the years of working with entertainment based companies that they have become more and more captured by the middle-classes.

The diversity of voices among creative teams has shrunk to a very narrow spectrum of university educated young people with little life experience, who have got the jobs they have due to nepotism, rather than talent or prior work. These things do not make for compelling narratives or characters. Writers need to live to be able to write well.

That, I would suggest, is the problem that lies across the whole entertainment spectrum, in multiple countries.

 

[Toots]

There's a lack of talent in hired young writers. But maybe they aren't hired for their storytelling capacity...

Most problems western society is facing could be solved with a good clean up of western society HR department. Unfortunately it won't happen because people working HR are also the root of those problems.

 

[TGO]

Your field of vision seems to be a tunnel....

It allows to me to focus on the truth that seems to get lost in the crowd

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Marvel dialogue is the cause of all of this

Yet another reason to hate Whedon.

 

[Guilty_AI]

dont get me wrong there are many good modern games too like baldur's gate 3 , Divinity original sin 2 , talos principle , soma , disco elysium etc. , im not one of those guy that says "ohh everything new is crap things were better back in my day"

I mean, you just denied your own question now. There are more where those come from, and since you included Half Life among the "good ones", you could even start including games that mainly focus on the atmosphere with minimalistic story like DUSK, Ashes 2063 or Souls games.

 

[diffusionx]

Just look at the people they are hiring to write.

 

[Schmendrick]

It allows to me to focus on the truth that seems to get lost in the crowd

If you define truth as simply ignoring everything that would contradict your negative opinion as you are doing it here then that just sounds like guaranteed depression....

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Don't worry, from now on, AI will write our stories.

Company cuts costs by replacing 60-strong writing team with AI

A writer using the pseudonym Benjamin Miller told the BBC that his company wanted to use AI to cut costs in early 2023. He led a team...

www.techspot.com

After playing the first 15 mins of Miles Morales that might actually be for the best.

At least they could give ai better criteria like "make it sound realistic" .

 

[TGO]

If you define truth as simply ignoring everything that would contradict your negative opinion as you are doing it here then that just sounds like guaranteed depression....

I ain't ignoring, you literally swept everything under the rug by saying there was trash writing before so it's okay.
I agree but there is lots more now by todays standards which make it stand out.
It's the same with film & TV
the writers are trash, even the ones that used to be good.