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[Sorcerer]

Sounding like an old man of course, but do kids read books anymore unless forced to by school? It's probably inconvenient to read a book when the Phone is there to distract you. Even I am victim of that at times, but I was raised in the non techie 70's right before home computers and then the Phone. I've probably cleared 1000 books, but that would never happen had I been born later.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Sounding like an old man of course, but do kids read books anymore unless forced to by school?

you'd be surprised

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A focus on graphics down to the last wood grain pattern on a picnic table, gaas and diversity politics have changed gaming.

The avg game maker is a lot different too.

Just look at all the industry retards we’ve all seen and laughed at on their own Twitter account. There’s a difference between old school nerds who got into game making games 30-40 years ago and modern employees who seem like crackpots.

 

[demonstr8]

It's because of The Selfish Gene Meme.

 

[violence]

In their defense, it takes time to work your way up. The older writers have already had the bad ones filtered out.

 

[Last Hearth]

I think there is a lack of young talent in almost every field.
And I hate to say it, but gaming and social media are primarily to blame.

I was talking about this the other day with a buddy that there are no new music bands any more. All we see are pop idol groups created by the music publishers marketing groups.
He remarked that when we were growing up, every kid he knew had a music instrument (mostly guitars) and tried to start a garage band, he and his friends spent hours and hours practicing.
The successful bands of that era were the most talented and hardest practicing out of those hundreds of thousands if not millions of such kids.
But looking at his own kids now, how many among them and their friends are doing that? None, they are all spending all their free time gaming or on social media.
Not saying there are no garage bands any more, but the number must be minuscule compared to 30 years ago. Is there then any wonder there are no great young bands emerging?
I suspect this is true across all kind of fields, including writing, just not nearly enough young people spending nearly enough time honing their skills and instead are spending too much time being entertained.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think there is a lack of young talent in almost every field.
And I hate to say it, but gaming and social media are primarily to blame.

I was talking about this the other day with a buddy that there are no new music bands any more. All we see are pop idol groups created by the music publishers marketing groups.
He remarked that when we were growing up, every kid he knew had a music instrument (mostly guitars) and tried to start a garage band, he and his friends spent hours and hours practicing.
The successful bands of that era were the most talented and hardest practicing out of those hundreds of thousands if not millions of such kids.
But looking at his own kids now, how many among them and their friends are doing that? None, they are all spending all their free time gaming or on social media.
Not saying there are no garage bands any more, but the number must be minuscule compared to 30 years ago. Is there then any wonder there are no great young bands emerging?
I suspect this is true across all kind of fields, including writing, just not nearly enough young people spending nearly enough time honing their skills and instead are spending too much time being entertained.

No, what you're seeing is a shift in medium, format and market dynamics.

The young aspiring musicians aren't making garage bands, they're composing on their computers, with or without instruments. The new writers are publishing their work online instead of looking for big book publishers.

And finally, the modern market isn't supply focused like in the past, its centered around demand. People don't go to stores to choose among what was made available to them, they search for their interests online. Many older folks have this impression everything is getting worse because they haven't figured that out, and still try to consume media the same way as they did in the 90s.

 

[thismeinteil]

Because pushing an agenda is more important than entertaining writing. This mentality doesn't just apply to gaming, but is infesting Hollywood, as well.

 

[Last Hearth]

No, what you're seeing is a shift in medium, format and market dynamics.

The young aspiring musicians aren't making garage bands, they're composing on their computers, with or without instruments. The new writers are publishing their work online instead of looking for big book publishers.

And finally, the modern market isn't supply focused like in the past, its centered around demand. People don't go to stores to choose among what was made available to them, they search for their interests online. Many older folks have this impression everything is getting worse because they haven't figured that out, and still try to consume media the same way as they did in the 90s.

Of course that’s a factor, but where are the songs composed by these great young composers that have become best sellers. Name me the self publishers authors who have become a phenomenon with their writing?

The fact of the matter is as an author who did the analysis wrote, it takes about ten thousand hours of doing something before a person masters that skill. Ten thousand hours is about 3.5 years of doing it 8 hours a day every day with no days off.
If you’re doing it 4 hours a day with some days off it will take 8-10 years.
There are just too many modern distractions and the number of people who can resist the temptation in order to hone their craft are few and far between now.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Of course that’s a factor, but where are the songs composed by these great young composers that have become best sellers. Name me the self publishers authors who have become a phenomenon with their writing?

They're serving their niches, away from the eyes of the mainstream public.

This guy for example is making somewhere between $10-40k a month publishing a webnovel.

Get more from Casualfarmer on Patreon

Creating fiction

www.patreon.com

Naturally its one of the few that found such a huge amount of success, but i still often find people who make $1-5k this way. Then others who only do it as a hobby. And more who manage to publish their books officially.

In the realm of music, not uncommon to find artists publishing their work on youtube, then selling discs or receiving donations





Heck, there are even musicians who make videogames and put their music in it.

 

[chikydee]

Its like most stories coming from these young guys dont have that epicness or maturity that older games had , like planescape torment , half life , Kotor

Most games written by young writers either have uninteresting characters or uninteresting events , or in worst case both , the dialog seems so cringe and the story is like watching one of those teen drama series , comparing an old story game with a new story game is like comparing True detective season 1 with Riverdale

Its really annoying , i hope this will be fixed somehow

It's partly because publishers are loathe to take risks on new writers/new ideas the way they would a few decades ago. They'd rather recycle the same old tropes. Political correctness also plays a HUGE role, people are more wary of being racist/sexist/etc. than they were before, which has stifled creative expression. Modern writers also aren't exposed to wide range of good writing from a young age, compared to their predecessors, so they may lack a firm literary foundation.

 

[Don Carlo]

Great writing comes from experience.

 

[hyperbertha]

Delusional nostalgia.

Marvel dialogue is nostalgia? Woke trash is nostalgia?

 

[Toons]

Marvel dialogue is nostalgia? Woke trash is nostalgia?

You've been consuming "marvel dialogue" for nearly 40 years. Marvel didn't invented it. Not even close.

 

[hyperbertha]

You've been consuming "marvel dialogue" for nearly 40 years. Marvel didn't invented it. Not even close.

Perhaps. But these days it seems no matter what game I play it has to be a non serious endlessly quippy stylish show off action scenes. All to glorify some feminist character too. The exceptions are Japanese and indie games

 

[Toons]

Perhaps. But these days it seems no matter what game I play it has to be a non serious endlessly quippy stylish show off action scenes. All to glorify some feminist character too. The exceptions are Japanese and indie games

Theres plenty of non quippy games if you are willing to look. Even major ones.

Theres also a ton of Japanese games with quippy dialogue just like theres anime with quippy dialogue. Depends on the genre and style of game you're going for.

 

[cartman414]

Easy life, no struggle. Also many zoomers grow up with shit media in their childhood. When I was a kid it was the 80s and we had so many cool cartoons and action movies. Everything was new and hopeful. The last 15 years kids grow up with Ritalin laced disney and nickoldian bs. Couple the woke ideology making people into pusses and you get what you get. Sadly. Writing went to fanfic level after 2018 or so.

I disagree on the 80s part for the most part. Most of the cartoons were syndicated and merch driven. Having to create an entire 65 episode run for one season doesn't guarantee much in the way of quality. DuckTales '87 was still pretty solid, but the reboot blew it out of the water.

 

[Majukun]

i think it's just that the amount of stories churned out on a weekly basis has rised up considerably, together with the "low budget" market shrinking.

this means that a lot of the rotten scripts that before were relegated to direct to vhs garbage, now finds itself on something with more visibility and expectations.

also before you would start a project from a good story, now you start the project first because you think there's money there and then hire somebody to make a narrative that fits what you wanna make, usually inside an already established universe cause it's safer.

 

[IAmRei]

Nowdays writer is to rely too realistic, and almost no fun. And there is agenda as well, be it from themselves or from higher ups. I recall in end of 90s, there are lot of legendaries writer, as fast as i recall, xenogears, ff7, ff tactics, planescape torment. And in 2000s, there also lot of games that had great concept as well. There are lot of things happened since 2010s, and going down in general. Although i can still see, for example xenoblades, tyranny, etc. There still hopes in other, but in general is awful...

 

[PeteBull]

You've been consuming "marvel dialogue" for nearly 40 years. Marvel didn't invented it. Not even close.

Even back in 2010 (ironman2) marvel still could joke about politically correct stuff

True nastiness aka woke agenda came after.

Edit:
Kevin Butler non pc ps3 commercials were 2008-2011 so again, bad things came after, till then it was still very creative in that field

Watch the ads, bros, they were all golden

 

[LRKD]

I wonder if it isn't just a trend in colleges. Too many new writers having to come from college, all learning the same garbage from there, instead of just learning on their own from works they enjoyed.

 

[crackajack]

save the princess was alright in the past and did not require any specific writer other than probably the main programmer which also was the art director... now we demand open world garbage to have dialog for every non essential doofus. Of course the often quite interesting main story gets burried under mediocre to just awful tldr quality of text.
Teletubbies did not help either. Avoiding Tom & Jerry conflicts and pretending the world is a perfectly lovely place.
The woke crazies also infuse their doctrine in everything which is almost never improving anything. Focusing on how they wish the world to be on partially almost imaginaryminority problems and ignoring the for the majority relatable stuff.

 

[hyperbertha]

Theres plenty of non quippy games if you are willing to look. Even major ones.

Theres also a ton of Japanese games with quippy dialogue just like theres anime with quippy dialogue. Depends on the genre and style of game you're going for.

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by quippy. Fundamentally. On purpose too. There are no Avengers level cringe from Japan. Sillyness is different.

 

[Toons]

Even back in 2010 (ironman2) marvel still could joke about politically correct stuff

True nastiness aka woke agenda came after.

He wasn't talking about "woke" "agenda" when he said marvel dialogue, he was talking about quips. And Iron man 2 isn't exactly an example of great writing. It was arguably one of their first weaker early films.

 

[PeteBull]

He wasn't talking about "woke" "agenda" when he said marvel dialogue, he was talking about quips. And Iron man 2 isn't exactly an example of great writing. It was arguably one of their first weaker early films.

Still much better from what we got after endgame alltogether, so my point stands, that shit is unwatchable

 

[Toons]

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by quippy. Fundamentally. On purpose too.

No, I know what I'm saying. I see 5is argument all the time and it's very nostalgiac and revisionist.. "Avengers level quipping" says nothing. The guy who wrote avengers was doing that same dialogue on Buffy and Firefly 10 years prior, and he wasn't alone. James gunn was doing this in his early Scooby-Doo films. It was a staple of the early 2000s. The MCU just got so successful on then film side that everyone and their dog started using it for trailer gags and such.

There are films, and games, where it is balanced, and several where it is not. Really depends on what games you're playing and what movies/shows you're watching.

 

[Toons]

Still much better from what we got after endgame alltogether, so my point stands, that shit is unwatchable

I'd take most of the post endgame movies, and a few of the shows, over iron man 2. With maybe a couple exceptions, easily.

Iron man 2s quips and its action sequences are basically its only selling point.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Two things.

Good writers cost more. So, the cheapest writers are usually young people. Those with limited success (the worst of the worst) cost even less. You get what you pay for, and companies don’t wanna pay.

I read an article years ago about how television studios had fired all the older writers because they made too much money, and so for several networks there was a decline in ratings because the writing became so bad.

Dont get me wrong, writers can be good or bad at any age, but if you want quality, you usually have to pay, and that’s the last thing companies want to do.

It’s not just writing though… you can tell when a company skimps on stuff. Voice acting, re-used assets, not updating a game engine or gameplay design in years… there are plenty of ways to save money that can make a game worse.

 

[INC]

Because they have little to no real life experiences, most of their experiences are seeing other people's experiences online, so they copy what they see, not what they have experienced. Same goes for their opinions and thoughts

Echo chamber of talent

 

[March Climber]

OP what if you’re simply looking in the wrong direction?

 

[Kumomeme]

Marvel dialogue is the cause of all of this

this remind me of What IF season 2. every line of dialogue always must has follow up with typical american cringe snarky remark at end of it. recent Ghostbuster movie also same. just add laugh sound effect and you got sitcom.

this is why sometimes im tired of watching american film since it full of this cringe remark or joke with typical american slang & tone (not sure what the right word to refer this) and one of reason why i cant stomatch most of american english dub for anime and videogames.

 

[PeteBull]

Two things.

Good writers cost more. So, the cheapest writers are usually young people. Those with limited success (the worst of the worst) cost even less. You get what you pay for, and companies don’t wanna pay.

I read an article years ago about how television studios had fired all the older writers because they made too much money, and so for several networks there was a decline in ratings because the writing became so bad.

Dont get me wrong, writers can be good or bad at any age, but if you want quality, you usually have to pay, and that’s the last thing companies want to do.

It’s not just writing though… you can tell when a company skimps on stuff. Voice acting, re-used assets, not updating a game engine or gameplay design in years… there are plenty of ways to save money that can make a game worse.

And yet, that shitty woke new purple DA:V had those ppl at the head:

Community - Hype - Dragon Age: The Veilguard Early Preview Thread

Looks like a repurposed mobile game. My expectations were already low, but Holy shit. Pretty much. Feels like playing one of those Cinematic Korean mobile games. Probably started out as a multiplayer GaaS game and it really shows.

www.neogaf.com

So no need to blame "young ppl" "corpos being cheap", its only one thing to blame, those fuckers at the top making new DA game dont look young nor cheap to hire, they look woke af tho, and game is artrocious.
We see it all on gaf, it gets terrible response on yt too.

Currently reveal got 44k likes and 252k dislikes( with proper add on u can still see dislikes on yt;p)


gameplay trailer got 84k likes, 156k dislikes:


Now u think any of those woke devs/pubs gonna give a flying fk that game gonna sell terribly? ofc not, they will simply close they studio after(their personal salaries wont be affected, like always ).

 

[hyperbertha]

No, I know what I'm saying. I see 5is argument all the time and it's very nostalgiac and revisionist.. "Avengers level quipping" says nothing. The guy who wrote avengers was doing that same dialogue on Buffy and Firefly 10 years prior, and he wasn't alone. James gunn was doing this in his early Scooby-Doo films. It was a staple of the early 2000s. The MCU just got so successful on then film side that everyone and their dog started using it for trailer gags and such.

There are films, and games, where it is balanced, and several where it is not. Really depends on what games you're playing and what movies/shows you're watching.

Stop thinking everyone else is so dumb they cant see past their nostalgia goggles. Why does the next dragon age have it? Why does fable? Hell why does dota 2 have it? Why does destiny? It's an epidemic. It's pg 13 dialogue for mass appeal. Previous games took their worlds seriously. You don't see this shit in Warcraft 3, or kotor or dragon age 1 or witcher. Stop calling it nostalgia. Only Japanese games and take their worlds seriously these days.

 

[EviLore]

Because they have little to no real life experiences, most of their experiences are seeing other people's experiences online, so they copy what they see, not what they have experienced. Same goes for their opinions and thoughts

Echo chamber of talent

Yep.

Philip K Dick experienced the insane hippy drug culture of the 60s and 70s. Tolkien fought in WW1. Frank Herbert lived through the Great Depression and was a navy photographer in WW2. George RR Martin was probably some giant swinger pervert in the ‘80s.

Now we have no great wars, and our great cultural shift is toward selfishness, vanity, dependence on technology, and political correctness. Millennials think they’ve had the hardest life of all time because they lived through a housing market correction and a stay at home pandemic, and Zoomers are too anxious to go on dates or get a drivers license because social judgment is omniscient and permanent.

Lacking substantive life experiences, the current writers became fixated on mental illness diagnoses and online activism as a form of identity. It’s very difficult to write something brilliant from that palette.

 

[samoilaaa]

OP what if you’re simply looking in the wrong direction?

dont get me wrong there are still some good written games but they are fewer these days , if we are lucky we get 2-3 per year

 

[winjer]

Yep.

Philip K Dick experienced the insane hippy drug culture of the 60s and 70s. Tolkien fought in WW1. Frank Herbert lived through the Great Depression and was a navy photographer in WW2. George RR Martin was probably some giant swinger pervert in the ‘80s.

Now we have no great wars, and our great cultural shift is toward selfishness, vanity, dependence on technology, and political correctness. Millennials think they’ve had the hardest life of all time because they lived through a housing market correction and a stay at home pandemic, and Zoomers are too anxious to go on dates or get a drivers license because social judgment is omniscient and permanent.

Lacking substantive life experiences, the current writers became fixated on mental illness diagnoses and online activism as a form of identity. It’s very difficult to write something brilliant from that palette.

I don't think it's just the lack of history defining moments.
Older writers had to go out, speak and interact with other people. They would have to engage with other points of view. They would hear life stories, even simple ones, from multiple perspectives.
So they were able to grow the ability to put themselves in other people's mindset. They were able to understand the nuances of why people did things, be them bad or good.

But this generation lives in safe spaces. They live in ideological bubbles, they only talk with people that think like they do.
They don't understand what it really means to be different. They don't understand different points of view. Different life experiences.
So they can't create nuance. They can't create characters with depth. And they can't imagine different life experiences to their own.
The result is that most characters today, are one dimensional, self centered and lack intellectual and emotional diversity.