• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Wii U Thread - Now in HD!

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's too bad. I would like to know what's coming down the line... I'm not very interested in the games that have been shown so far (except ACIII).
Are people going to have to depend on Wii games to get them through?

If they showed some stuff coming in the spring that might get me to jump in at launch.

Who knows, maybe I'll buy a launch unit and a copy of Xenoblade and Last Story and have a ball.

It's cool to want to know all that. I personally don't give a crap. I want to know price, date, and I want them to finally talk about the features of the console. Achievement system? How exactly will friends be handled? What's the store going to be like? In what way are they enabling an account system so that when I sell my console, I'm not also selling everything I bought on it. It's time for them to actually start talking about more than games. Media/Entertainment is also important. Netflix? Amazon App? Sports networks? Will it play blurays? etc etc
 
I want to see the list of platforms for GTA V

games are more important than engines at this point, I'm sure the Fox Engine has WiiU listed somewhere but if we don't see the games does not matter
 

ThaGuy

Member
Thanks lherre, any little piece of information helps.

What would surprise me is if the x360 and ps3 was on the list. That would be a sight to see lol.
 
There's only so much a compiler can do. We're talking about a few percent here, and even that only applies to high level code. Also, while MULTI does produce fast binaries, it tends to favor size and stability/ security over speed. In the end, it all comes down to the developers, and they have years of experience with PS3 and 360, but only a few months on Wii U.

In fact, we had similar issues last gen: Code written for Xbox often performed worse when ported to Xbox360 even though Xenon is a lot faster then some old Celeron. There've also been issues when Intel switched from insanely high clocked Pentium4 chips to much lower clocked Core CPUs - some code simply performed much better on P4 even though we all know Core is far superior overall. And those were both x86 chips, just like Wii U and Xbox360 both use PPCs, so that doesn't necessarily tell us much, either.

THANKS so much for this post!

This is exactly what "Ninthings", as we are called around here, have been saying all the time (Code not optimized for Wii Us CPU) but it got dismissed by the opposition as "not possible it has to run faster on a faster cpu" or with "Its based on an known architecture, code must be optimized by devs on day1!" etc...
 
ZombiU started as Killer Rabbids in 2010 on HDTwins

Pikmin 3 started as a Wii game

just to let you know

And it should be noted that ZombiU has dynamic lighting, shadows, ansiotropic filtering, AA ahead of anything I've seen on the PS3 and 360 and, most importantly, all with v-synch enabled so no screen tearing. On a technical level it's quite impressive from what we've seen so far, and there's still around 3 months to go before it's released.

Pikmin 3 is also impressive technically, with impressive lighting and shadows (pixel perfect shadows on a shedload of Pikmin) and depth of field.
 

BlackJace

Member
I'm worried that while the hardware is there, lack of dev ambition will result in super weak third party support. Mostly that of Western, of course.
 

DynamicG

Member
THANKS so much for this post!

This is exactly what "Ninthings", as we are called around here, have been saying all the time (Code not optimized for Wii Us CPU) but it got dismissed by the opposition as "not possible it has to run faster on a faster cpu" or with "Its based on an known architecture, code must be optimized by devs on day1!" etc...

Don't be so aggressive about it either. There are lots of variables that could lead to the code not running properly. Some games could have this problem, and some could not. Yes, there are totally trolls who are not reasonable about this, but it's all still speculation to some degree so we need to keep the "in you face!!" type stuff to a minimum.

I wish this console came out tomorrow if only so everyone could release all the built up pressure.

On the subject of terms used for fanboys,Heavy's Nintendudes is kind of growing on me. I think we should take ownership of it and make a Nintendo community thread with it in the title. Although the term is a little gender exclusive.
 
Don't be so aggressive about it either. There are lots of variables that could lead to the code not running properly. Some games could have this problem, and some could not. Yes, there are totally trolls who are not reasonable about this, but it's all still speculation to some degree so we need to keep the "in you face!!" type stuff to a minimum.

I wish this console came out tomorrow if only so everyone could release all the built up pressure.

On the subject of terms used for fanboys,Heavy's Nintendudes is kind of growing on me. I think we should take ownership of it and make a Nintendo community thread with it in the title.

But its nice to have someone with the knowledge about this stuff basically confirm what we´ve ben saying and i didn´t attack anybody with this post, so all is cool...

Do we get to nickname Sony and Microsoft fans now aswell? EC? ;)
 

DynamicG

Member
But its nice to have someone witht eh knowledge about this stuff basically confirm what we´ve ben saying and i didn´t attack anybody with this post, so all is cool...

Do we get to nickname Sony and Microsoft fans now aswell? EC? ;)

You've seen how things go around here, it's totally possible to start something without attacking anyone. :)

Nah, I think naming others would be a problem. ;) Besides, this is about turning a slight from trolls into a calling card or mark of pride. Who cares what the others are called, we know what and who we are.

Nintendudes and Nintendudettes could set the standard for reasonable enthusiast fans on Neogaf!
 
You've seen how things go around here, it's totally possible to start something without attacking anyone. :)

Nah, I think naming others would be a problem. ;) Besides, this is about turning a slight from trolls into a calling card or mark of pride. Who cares what the others are called, we know what and who we are.

Nintendudes and Nintendudettes could set the standard for reasonable enthusiast fans on Neogaf!

The long forgotten language "Reasonable"... I remember it from the early days... Then someone invented the internet and it was all gone...

I still think about what lherre meant with rethinking next gen buissnesmodel... hmm...

I really think that MAYBE (remember, pure speculation) UE4 (or some form of it) is coming to current gen.
 

Hiltz

Member
Nintendo should just save announcing Retro's title for next E3. Quite frankly, it will need all the exciting software surprises it can bring in order to build up hype for the platform's future games especially if Xbox 720 and PS4 may be unveiled. Besides, I'd rather not have to learn about an awesome game and have to wait a year or more for it to come out. It was painful waiting for mario galaxy and other titles like smash bros brawl.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
But its nice to have someone with the knowledge about this stuff basically confirm what we´ve ben saying and i didn´t attack anybody with this post, so all is cool...

Do we get to nickname Sony and Microsoft fans now aswell? EC? ;)

You seem to take this "us versus them" mentality a little bit too far.
 
Errr... in case you missed it, i wasn't the one trying to dictate others about they could or should post.

I like gin.


THANKS so much for this post!

This is exactly what "Ninthings", as we are called around here, have been saying all the time (Code not optimized for Wii Us CPU) but it got dismissed by the opposition as "not possible it has to run faster on a faster cpu" or with "Its based on an known architecture, code must be optimized by devs on day1!" etc...

Speak for yourself! I call myself Mustafa.
 

Stewox

Banned
The fact that you are using off screen footage alone makes this invalid.

The difference is a few 10ms ... up or down. Doesn't matter in this case.

I already said that before, added approximation signs, and noted it in the video description. Stop whining.


Besides, those games probably don't run in 60FPS yet at all, so there's no definitive factor that discredits this completely.

Then you get me some "on-sceen footage" if you can.


With that big mouth: You lazy guys in this thread who got to all the gameshows, you should film some better footage with a 240FPS camera and snap all the bits an pieces of the tech like the backside of the controller and what's written on it, the backside of the console, the backside of the HDTVs (model sticker) , instead of watching cheap ports and game content spoilers and listening boring PR guys talk like whateverybody else does ...

Every stupid media got there and not one of them could freaking film the backside of the controller.
 

Hiltz

Member
If anything, I expect Nintendo will just show off the remaining games of Nintendo Land and new trailer footage/demos of the rest of its own launch/launch-window software.
 

donny2112

Member
On the one hand people say that publishers "left money on the table" by not developing "core" traditional titles for the Wii.

They did, if they would've gotten them out early. By 2009 and later, most of that audience had given up hope in waiting, though.

When they did though these weren't generally met with a lot of success*.

Pre-2009 examples of actually trying?

RE4 sold amazingly beyond Capcom's expectations, and they followed it up with lightgun games. COD3 sold better on Wii than PS3 from launch, yet COD4 (the game that really catapulted the series) skipped Wii in 2007.

There wasn't a large audience for their games, despite the large installed base.

There was at the beginning.

So in actuality did they leave money on the table?

Yes.

They did meet success when they developed titles geared towards the "casual" expanded audience market that Nintendo actively cultivated on the system;

Yes, but they could've had both, if the industry had supported Wii like the market leader.

At which point, the argument becomes that third parties should have developed an audience on the Wii, presumably by releasing titles regardless of commercial return/opportunity cost? But then the question is: Why - why sink money and resources into developing title after title to develop an audience; when the audience is already available on other platforms that are easier to work with.

You mean PS2? Yeah, why ever try to develop games for a new generation, when your audience is already on the old generation machine. It doesn't make any sense!

You're basically arguing for never trying to find an audience on multiple devices. However, that's incredibly short-sighted and rightly seen as stupid. At the beginning of a generation, the audience can be shaped by what you push on it. Yes, Nintendo pushed Wii Sports, but they also pushed Zelda and Mario Galaxy. RE4 was a great success, and they followed it up with an on-rails shooter and never brought RE5 to the system.

The point is that 2009 and later, yeah, the core audience on Wii had shriveled up due to lack of feeding. 2007/2008, it had great potential to be a good source of sales for core games, but the games didn't come. Many people try to rewrite history by focusing on the 2009 and later lack of success and saying that the audience was never there to begin with.

And why is there no onus on the platform holder to do so?

There's the rub. Nintendo should've absolutely done more to get publishers to bring over those early core titles to the Wii to be "umbrella" games to help build the audience better on Wii and convince more scared publishers to take the "risk" of putting their games on Wii, too. Nintendo apparently thought that providing the largest single userbase would be enough (Hey, it worked for PS2!), but with their hamstrung power in the system (No, it won't be the same this generation, since there were core architectural differences beyond simply power concerns), it became too much of an effort by publishers to put basically whole teams in play to try to create the same game on such vastly different hardware. Add to that the massive loads of FUD surrounding the Wii when it launched (even see such nominally level-headed press like Steven Kent going off the deep end from it), and they had more than enough reason to "pass" on any Wii versions. That's where Nintendo should've stepped in to provide incentives to bring over, at least, those big "umbrella" games. They didn't in time, and the Wii's industry supported withered before ever really bearing much fruit.

That's what I don't want to happen with Wii U. Nintendo needs to take whatever steps they need to to prevent an industry support repeat from Wii. They seem to be on a good start (matching advertising some launch games, really low digital cuts and supporting digital+retail Day 1 releases, open online that should be more account-based than Friend Code based), but time will tell if it (and further needed efforts) worked.
 
This is exactly what "Ninthings", as we are called around here, have been saying all the time (Code not optimized for Wii Us CPU) but it got dismissed by the opposition as "not possible it has to run faster on a faster cpu" or with "Its based on an known architecture, code must be optimized by devs on day1!" etc...

Seriously, man? You're taking these things way too seriously.
 

Terrell

Member
So, on the UE4 tease.... I dunno, I'm falling back on Sony and MS not being able to afford to meet the hardware target for UE4, hence the comment about being unsure how next gen will play out if only the PC can support it. But we simply don't know, so I leave it at that.


Considering one of the console makers is now Microsoft, holding $59B in cash with the intent of controlling the living room, I don't think publishers have much concern about lacking a platform for their content a la SEGA's demise. Even more so now that Microsoft has also actively cultivated an expanded audience market on their system.

You don't see a problem with one platform holder having an uncontested monopoly on an entire audience? You sure about that? Cuz last I checked, 3rd-parties didn't think it was so hot when Nintendo had one. And if you're naive enough to think that Microsoft wouldn't try to throw its weight around if it was the last one standing out of the 3rd-party-predestined core consoles, you either don't know much about Microsoft or think it will magically be different somehow.

I don't think it's a matter of simply bleeding out one's money in terms of helping to create an environment with a receptive audience. The entire philosophy and presentation of the Wii was essentially aimed at an expanded audience. They essentially acknowledged this in the announcement of the Wii U. They've also been protective of their family-friendly and child-friendly platform branding throughout the years - and that makes sense, that's a valuable brand to maintain.

Microsoft cultivated a gaming brand around the likes of Halo, Gears of War and Call of Duty and then also created an environment where they're the home of Kinectimals and Sesame Street. And Sony in the PlayStation heyday didn't seem to have issue with being both SingStar and God of War in terms of image.

It was a matter of perception for Sony. People were more willing to pretend things like Singstar didn't exist. Nintendo promoted their expanded audience content a little more, yes, but not to the exclusion of other content. Despite it being crap, Red Steel was there in 2006. So was Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3. And Zelda. The fact is, 3rd-parties MADE it so that the expanded audience was brought in to the exclusion of others by not bringing any quality content to the table.

With WiiU, Nintendo has bent over backwards to make developing for their platform as easy and cost-efficient as possible and to promote a wider diversity of content outside of their own expanded audience roster. So if 3rd-parties aren't biting, the onus is back on them, because the only thing left for Nintendo to do to make the hold-outs happy is bankrupt themselves selling loss-leader hardware and competing in the same "arms race" as Sony and Microsoft.

(Pertaining more to the Wii than the Wii U) If publishers don't see success in attempts to diversify their content on a platform, can they reasonably be expected to continue to do so at their own opportunity-cost in terms of money and human resources.

I dunno, I'll tell you when that actually happens.
 
But its nice to have someone with the knowledge about this stuff basically confirm what we´ve ben saying and i didn´t attack anybody with this post, so all is cool...

Do we get to nickname Sony and Microsoft fans now aswell? EC? ;)
Microsoft fanboys have long been called XBots. I've never heard a good one for Sony, though.
 

jmizzal

Member
If anything, I expect Nintendo will just show off the remaining games of Nintendo Land and new trailer footage/demos of the rest of its own launch/launch-window software.

I still think we will get a peak at Smash Bros U rather its Sept 13th or in a Nintendo Direct for Japanese games, other then that I dont expect any big 1st party games announced until Dec., maybe some eShop games.

For 3rd parties I do expect some new games announced maybe nothing huge exclusive AAA, but COD:BO2, Need For Speed MW, Capcom game (RE6 prob) and maybe something like Overstrike the count down clock does end the Sept 12th.
 

donny2112

Member
I want to see the list of platforms for GTA V

PS3, 360, PC.

If Wii U will be added to that, it'll take some serious launch sales for other core games to convince Take Two to do so. They are still very much in the DoNotWant.jpg side of things with Wii U, but are probably willing to be convinced, otherwise.
 
So, on the UE4 tease.... I dunno, I'm falling back on Sony and MS not being able to afford to meet the hardware target for UE4, hence the comment about being unsure how next gen will play out if only the PC can support it. But we simply don't know, so I leave it at that.

What UE4 tease for Wii U are you referring to? All I've heard is what Mark Rein said, in that if a developer wants to, they could port Unreal Engine 4 over to the Wii U. Anything new since then?
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
There's only so much a compiler can do. We're talking about a few percent here, and even that only applies to high level code. Also, while MULTI does produce fast binaries, it tends to favor size and stability/ security over speed. In the end, it all comes down to the developers, and they have years of experience with PS3 and 360, but only a few months on Wii U.

In fact, we had similar issues last gen: Code written for Xbox often performed worse when ported to Xbox360 even though Xenon is a lot faster then some old Celeron. There've also been issues when Intel switched from insanely high clocked Pentium4 chips to much lower clocked Core CPUs - some code simply performed much better on P4 even though we all know Core is far superior overall. And those were both x86 chips, just like Wii U and Xbox360 both use PPCs, so that doesn't necessarily tell us much, either.

Green Hills claim that their compiler could be as much as 20% faster relative to code compiled with a "free" GNU compiler.

http://www.ghs.com/BoostPerformance.html

Hardly a few percent.

The point around experience with PS360 is very valid and is something i've said often before.
 

jmizzal

Member
PS3, 360, PC.

If Wii U will be added to that, it'll take some serious launch sales for other core games to convince Take Two to do so. They are still very much in the DoNotWant.jpg side of things with Wii U, but are probably willing to be convinced, otherwise.

Tho Take Two is the Distributor of GTA games they dont publish them and they have no say on where GTAV will land. Rockstar publishes those games and can put GTA where ever they want to put them. Plus there Rockstar Games and they can pretty much do what they wont they make the most money for Take Two.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
The difference is a few 10ms ... up or down. Doesn't matter in this case.

I already said that before, added approximation signs, and noted it in the video description. Stop whining.


Besides, those games probably don't run in 60FPS yet at all, so there's no definitive factor that discredits this completely.

Then you get me some "on-sceen footage" if you can.


With that big mouth: You lazy guys in this thread who got to all the gameshows, you should film some better footage with a 240FPS camera and snap all the bits an pieces of the tech like the backside of the controller and what's written on it, the backside of the console, the backside of the HDTVs (model sticker) , instead of watching cheap ports and game content spoilers and listening boring PR guys talk like whateverybody else does ...

Every stupid media got there and not one of them could freaking film the backside of the controller.

Question, is there really a rabid need for extremely detailed latency info? Since when?

You seem to be the only one really obsessed about this feature here.
I thought the tablet's latency was considered to be pretty great. What more do you need?
 
The difference is a few 10ms ... up or down. Doesn't matter in this case.

I already said that before, added approximation signs, and noted it in the video description. Stop whining.


Besides, those games probably don't run in 60FPS yet at all, so there's no definitive factor that discredits this completely.

Then you get me some "on-sceen footage" if you can.


With that big mouth: You lazy guys in this thread who got to all the gameshows, you should film some better footage with a 240FPS camera and snap all the bits an pieces of the tech like the backside of the controller and what's written on it, the backside of the console, the backside of the HDTVs (model sticker) , instead of watching cheap ports and game content spoilers and listening boring PR guys talk like whateverybody else does ...

Every stupid media got there and not one of them could freaking film the backside of the controller.

Wow what a meltdown!

There was ALWAYS someone watching what you were doing on Gamescom. A human has only 2 hands how does someone turn around the controller, hold it steady and take a snapshot? And did i mention you were watched the whole time?

At Gamescom the whole console was hidden behind a locked tinted glass door and the back of the tv was not visible either.

So yeah, totally easy to fullfil your requests.
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
PS3, 360, PC.

If Wii U will be added to that, it'll take some serious launch sales for other core games to convince Take Two to do so. They are still very much in the DoNotWant.jpg side of things with Wii U, but are probably willing to be convinced, otherwise.
GT5 on Wii U would do better than Zombi U, which should sell above 500K (Red Steel sold over that and had a bad word of mouth). In other words, if Take Two doesn't port GT5 on Wii U, they have other motivations than making money selling their game.
 
I don't know if it's already known, but i spoke to the people at the booth during PAX and they say Yatagarasu is coming to the Wii U download store as well as the 3DS store (which was already announced). Glad to see some smaller, download only games showing up on Wii U!
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
*Rumor*

"Dark Witch" new Fantasy RPG in development for Wii U with a rumored 500k polygon's per character:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/03/developer-mentions-wii-u-for-unannounced-fantasy-medieval-rpg/


That is a hell of a lot of polygons for a character model, if I remember correctly Crysis 1 on PC had something like 8k per character.....

This is interesting though.

This must be the fourth time this particular link has been posted in this thread.
 

Instro

Member
*Rumor*

"Dark Witch" new Fantasy RPG in development for Wii U with a rumored 500k polygon's per character:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/03/developer-mentions-wii-u-for-unannounced-fantasy-medieval-rpg/


That is a hell of a lot of polygons for a character model, if I remember correctly Crysis 1 on PC had something like 8k per character.....

This is interesting though.

The polygon bit is referring to a job posting which means they are talking about design not what the in game models will have.
 
GT5 on Wii U would do better than Zombi U, which should sell above 500K (Red Steel sold over that and had a bad word of mouth). In other words, if Take Two doesn't port GT5 on Wii U, they have other motivations than making money selling their game.

Why is that a certainty? They made a GTA specifically for the Nintendo DS a few years ago and it bombed hard. They had to port it to iOS and PSP in an attempt to make their money back. It's not like the game was bad, it was actually the best handheld GTA. I can't blame them for not being gung-ho about Nintendo at this point. I imagine the decision will come down solely to how much it will cost to port it and distribute it on the console they know it will far and away sell the least amount of copies on.
 
*Rumor*

"Dark Witch" new Fantasy RPG in development for Wii U with a rumored 500k polygon's per character:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/03/developer-mentions-wii-u-for-unannounced-fantasy-medieval-rpg/


That is a hell of a lot of polygons for a character model, if I remember correctly Crysis 1 on PC had something like 8k per character.....

This is interesting though.

The 500k polygon isnot for ingame:

The project is a video game, an heroic fantasy RPG with higly detailled armors (~500 000 polys per character). It’s not for real time, rather for rendering, 3D printing and other things of the same kind.
 

Hiltz

Member
I don't know if it's already known, but i spoke to the people at the booth during PAX and they say Yatagarasu is coming to the Wii U download store as well as the 3DS store (which was already announced). Glad to see some smaller, download only games showing up on Wii U!

This would be nice if it turns out to be true. Not sure what to make of the game yet. The developer's track record for King of Fighters seems to be a mixed bag.
 

jmizzal

Member
Why is that a certainty? They made a GTA specifically for the Nintendo DS a few years ago and it bombed hard. They had to port it to iOS and PSP in an attempt to make their money back. It's not like the game was bad, it was actually the best handheld GTA. I can't blame them for not being gung-ho about Nintendo at this point. I imagine the decision will come down solely to how much it will cost to port it and distribute it on the console they know it will far and away sell the least amount of copies on.

It did not bomb hard, it just didnt sell 20 mil like the 3D GTA games, but no 2D GTA game has ever sold like that. If im not mistaken GTA CW on DS sold around 1 mil copies.
 

NateDrake

Member
Why is that a certainty? They made a GTA specifically for the Nintendo DS a few years ago and it bombed hard. They had to port it to iOS and PSP in an attempt to make their money back. It's not like the game was bad, it was actually the best handheld GTA. I can't blame them for not being gung-ho about Nintendo at this point. I imagine the decision will come down solely to how much it will cost to port it and distribute it on the console they know it will far and away sell the least amount of copies on.

The GTA fanbase didn't want that kind of GTA, simple as that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom