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[aeroslash]

*Rumor*

"Dark Witch" new Fantasy RPG in development for Wii U with a rumored 500k polygon's per character:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/03/developer-mentions-wii-u-for-unannounced-fantasy-medieval-rpg/


That is a hell of a lot of polygons for a character model, if I remember correctly Crysis 1 on PC had something like 8k per character.....

This is interesting though.

yeah...lol. They maight have added a 0. We will be lucky if any character in a Wii U game used 50k ever..

Edit: ok, already debunked..

 

[onilink88]

and I quote...loving the artwork, it reminds me of

and

mixed together LOL

Nope. Not seeing it. There's a generic goth flair to her appearance, but nothing even remotely reminiscent of Nihei's flavor of cyberpunk.

 

[DynamicG]

Green Hills claim that their compiler could be as much as 20% faster relative to code compiled with a "free" GNU compiler.

http://www.ghs.com/BoostPerformance.html

Hardly a few percent.

The point around experience with PS360 is very valid and is something i've said often before.

That bolded word has a meaning and was likely used by the company for a reason. So actual increases will likely vary from game to game so it COULD be as little as less than a percent is gained or UP to 20%. Your point doesn't make his statement wrong.

 

[Oddduck]

yeah...lol. They maight have added a 0. We will be lucky if any character in a Wii U game used 50k ever..

Edit: ok, already debunked..

The deviantart job post says "not real time".

 

[cyberheater]

*Rumor*

"Dark Witch" new Fantasy RPG in development for Wii U with a rumored 500k polygon's per character:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/03/developer-mentions-wii-u-for-unannounced-fantasy-medieval-rpg/


That is a hell of a lot of polygons for a character model, if I remember correctly Crysis 1 on PC had something like 8k per character.....

This is interesting though.

As an interesting aside. The main rider and dragon in Lair on PS3 was around 150K polygons.

 

[wsippel]

Green Hills claim that their compiler could be as much as 20% faster relative to code compiled with a "free" GNU compiler.

http://www.ghs.com/BoostPerformance.html

Hardly a few percent.

The point around experience with PS360 is very valid and is something i've said often before.

GCC isn't really all that relevant in this discussion. More important is how it compares to compilers like IBM XL or Freescale Codewarrior.

 

[cyberheater]

That bolded word has a meaning and was likely used by the company for a reason. So actual increases will likely vary from game to game so it COULD be as little as less than a percent is gained or UP to 20%. Your point doesn't make his statement wrong.

True. But my point is that Nintendo have chosen that compiler for a reason. To produce as efficient code as possible with minimal change required to allow easy porting of games to WiiU.

 

[aeroslash]

As an interesting aside. The main rider and dragon in Lair on PS3 was around 150K polygons.

realtime? Do you have a source for that? It's much much higher than anything else..

 

[JordanN]

The 500k polygon isnot for ingame:

Pretty much.

Zbrush/Mudbox models can easily reach a million polygons in detail but the power to put them in a real time environment is astronomical.

This is where normal maps come in which bake the data onto lower polygon meshes that can be used for games.

 

[japtor]

You'll still buy the Freeloader despite knowing what happened to the Wii version?

On top of that, has the 3DS even been hacked to allow imports? I wouldn't expect the Wii U to be as easily cracked as the Wii was.

Hmm, been following these threads from the start and I'm sure it has been mentioned a few times by much more intelligent folk than myself that if ports aren't optimised to take advantage of OoOE, then they'll not see any advantage from it. Maybe I'm mistaken or that's since been debunked while I wasn't looking And perhaps I should have said "perform better" instead of "look better"?

Either way, and back to my original point in response to ECs post: I didn't know we were now assuming the CPU was behind the times. I thought the current thesis was that it was modern features but lacking clock speed - hence what I wrote.

OoOE can give you more power per clock, but if the clock is lower (as rumored here) then the net effect isn't necessarily always faster. Like if you can do double the work per clock, but clock it at half, the net gain is nothing (other than power efficiency I guess). Then there's all the rest of the stuff posted since about optimizing for different CPUs.

Green Hills claim that their compiler could be as much as 20% faster relative to code compiled with a "free" GNU compiler.

http://www.ghs.com/BoostPerformance.html

Hardly a few percent.

The point around experience with PS360 is very valid and is something i've said often before.

That's just comparing to another compiler for a given set of code on the same platform, that's not comparing code optimized for one platform vs another which is the issue here.

The GTA fanbase didn't want that kind of GTA, simple as that.

Yeah, GTA got big with GTA3 while the Chinatown Wars was more like the first two games.

 

[cyberheater]

realtime? Do you have a source for that? It's much much higher than anything else..

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43975

 

[aeroslash]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43975

Thanks, but i fail to see how that is even possible.

For example a car in PG has from 80-100k according to that post, and even then, it never is rendered completely. And i'm sure a car from GT5 has more or less the same numbers. I really don't know how almost 2 times this level of detail go to the main character in Lair..

We are talking 5 times the level of detail of Nathan Drake here which is completely incredible.

Not that i'm not trusting you, but as a modeler i find it hard to believe.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Question, is there really a rabid need for extremely detailed latency info? Since when?

You seem to be the only one really obsessed about this feature here.
I thought the tablet's latency was considered to be pretty great. What more do you need?

Yeah I have no idea what these massive incredibly detailed and convoluted posts about latency are for. The latency will be fine, it'll be like any other wireless controller. They wouldn't eff up something that important.

 

[Oddduck]

Question, is there really a rabid need for extremely detailed latency info? Since when?

You seem to be the only one really obsessed about this feature here.
I thought the tablet's latency was considered to be pretty great. What more do you need?

Every time I see him post, I wonder the same thing. So much passion for latency.

 

[Rolf NB]

Green Hills claim that their compiler could be as much as 20% faster relative to code compiled with a "free" GNU compiler.

http://www.ghs.com/BoostPerformance.html

Hardly a few percent.

"Red Hat recently published a study on this effect in Linux: "Linux Scheduler Latency," March 2002"
Yeah ...

The only thing they still publish are embedded ARM benchmarks, though one should note that there is not one comparison with GCC on the same CPU, and not one benchmark where they beat (on any CPU) a GCC version post 3.4.3 (which released in 2005!).

 

[cyberheater]

Thanks, but i fail to see how that is even possible.

For example a car in PG has from 80-100k according to that post, and even then, it never is rendered completely. And i'm sure a car from GT5 has more or less the same numbers. I really don't know how almost 2 times this level of detail go to the main character in Lair..

We are talking 5 times the level of detail of Nathan Drake here which is completely incredible.

Not that i'm not trusting you, but as a modeler i find it hard to believe.

I know what you mean. Maybe that's the main model at it's highest detail level and it's severely downscaled in game depending on view distance etc...

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

What is edram used for essentially? I know his is a noob question but depending on the answer I have another weird theory....

 

[JordanN]

Thanks, but i fail to see how that is even possible.

For example a car in PG has from 80-100k according to that post, and even then, it never is rendered completely. And i'm sure a car from GT5 has more or less the same numbers. I really don't know how almost 2 times this level of detail go to the main character in Lair..

We are talking 5 times the level of detail of Nathan Drake here which is completely incredible.

Not that i'm not trusting you, but as a modeler i find it hard to believe.

It's from a cutscene.

He played a recent extremely high-resolution trailer in real-time, occasionally pausing to swing the camera around or turn on or off various effects. To be fair, the scene in question was clearly a cut-scene, calculated to show off just how many polygons the PS3 can throw around; it's still a lot of polygons, though.

Each model, Worch claimed, contained somewhere between 100,000 and 170,000 triangles. Each had a bunch of other special maps and lighting applied, and the main character was built up with "over ten textures". He compared this to an estimated 10,000 for characters in Gears of War and other recent high-res games. The high-res models, meanwhile, that got dithered down to produce the in-game models, ran up around 5,000,000 triangles.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2424/taming_the_dragon_nextgeneration_.php

 

[aeroslash]

I know what you mean. Maybe that's the main model at it's highest detail level and it's severely downscaled in game depending on view distance etc...

You made me look to Lair screens again...lol.

I'm sure in no way it's 150k.

Anyway, let's stay to the topic again...wii U will be awesome! 50k characters or not!

 

[Donnie]

yeah...lol. They maight have added a 0. We will be lucky if any character in a Wii U game used 50k ever..

Edit: ok, already debunked..

I wouldn't go that far, Leon from RE4 on GameCube used 10k. I'd be very surprised if 50k characters aren't easily surpassed on WiiU.

 

[cyberheater]

Thanks, but i fail to see how that is even possible.

For example a car in PG has from 80-100k according to that post, and even then, it never is rendered completely. And i'm sure a car from GT5 has more or less the same numbers. I really don't know how almost 2 times this level of detail go to the main character in Lair..

We are talking 5 times the level of detail of Nathan Drake here which is completely incredible.

Not that i'm not trusting you, but as a modeler i find it hard to believe.

Here you go. I've done some digging.

He played a recent extremely high-resolution trailer in real-time, occasionally pausing to swing the camera around or turn on or off various effects. To be fair, the scene in question was clearly a cut-scene, calculated to show off just how many polygons the PS3 can throw around; it's still a lot of polygons, though.

Each model, Worch claimed, contained somewhere between 100,000 and 170,000 triangles. Each had a bunch of other special maps and lighting applied, and the main character was built up with "over ten textures". He compared this to an estimated 10,000 for characters in Gears of War and other recent high-res games. The high-res models, meanwhile, that got dithered down to produce the in-game models, ran up around 5,000,000 triangles.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2424/taming_the_dragon_nextgeneration_.php

Still. Very impressive.

 

[jerd]

Not sure if this has already been posted but there's a bit of new (to me at least) Rayman footage and it shows off a bit of gamepad functionality:

http://youtu.be/iCZRCOtZcvw

It is pretty bad quality off screen, but still impressive I think.

 

[aeroslash]

It's from a cutscene.


http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2424/taming_the_dragon_nextgeneration_.php

Ok, so as i understand it, he's talking about a cut-scene only to show a dragon. Never in gaming conditions!

I wouldn't go that far, Leon from RE4 on GameCube used 10k. I'd be very surprised if 50k characters aren't easily surpassed on WiiU.

Nathan Drake is only 30k, so yeah...i doubt we will see something above that...

 

[patrickthehedgehog]

This would be nice if it turns out to be true. Not sure what to make of the game yet. The developer's track record for King of Fighters seems to be a mixed bag.

Which KOF games did they work on? I tried to look it up, but it's pretty difficult to find the credits for individual games online Someone should fix that!

 

[cyberheater]

Not sure if this has already been posted but there's a bit of new (to me at least) Rayman footage and it shows off a bit of gamepad functionality:

http://youtu.be/iCZRCOtZcvw

It is pretty bad quality off screen, but still impressive I think.

The thing that worries me a bit around this is you can clearly see that the guy is only looking at the WiiUPad. If there is a lot of tablet interaction in the game then you might as well turn off the tv and just stick to the pad.

 

[jerd]

The thing that worries me a bit around this is you can clearly see that the guy is only looking at the WiiUPad. If there is a lot of tablet interaction in the game then you might as well turn off the tv and just stick to the pad.

Well one guy is controlling the character on the gamepad while the other is controlling Rayman on the TV. So the guy controlling the little green guy (can't remember his name) will be looking exclusively at the gamepad, while the other 1-4 players will be looking at the TV.

 

[wsippel]

"Red Hat recently published a study on this effect in Linux: "Linux Scheduler Latency," March 2002"
Yeah ...

The only thing they still publish are embedded ARM benchmarks, though one should note that there is not one comparison with GCC on the same CPU, and not one benchmark where they beat (on any CPU) a GCC version post 3.4.3 (which released in 2005!).

There are more recent benchmarks: http://www.coremark.org/benchmark/index.php?pg=benchmark

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

if ios is UE4 compatible, then technicall of course WiiU can be too. Doesn't mean ios is going to start getting PS4 ports, just that you can centralise your development tools around UE4 for all platforms - you'll still need to optimise for lower end hardware.

Either Nintendo can assist with funding to incentivise Epic to bring the engine to WiiU, or perhaps some of their key customers (ubisoft etc) pushed Epic into supporting it.

Support the new cash cow or we walk... - Ubisoft unlikely but I can see it happening...

I was staunchly in the "I'll wait a year or two" camp, but after the 3DS XL exceeded my expectations I put my Vita up for sale on Amazon and got 260 for it today along with my 32 gig card. Wife is allowing me to put it towards a Wii U. Hopefully the price difference won't be too painful.

Does she have a sister?

 

[D-e-f-]

I still think we will get a peak at Smash Bros U rather its Sept 13th or in a Nintendo Direct for Japanese games, other then that I dont expect any big 1st party games announced until Dec., maybe some eShop games.

For 3rd parties I do expect some new games announced maybe nothing huge exclusive AAA, but COD:BO2, Need For Speed MW, Capcom game (RE6 prob) and maybe something like Overstrike the count down clock does end the Sept 12th.

C'mon, don't kid yourself! You should know better than to expect them to show a game that they have only just started developing from scratch earlier this year. You will not see Smash this year. Spare yourself the disappointment. It just makes no sense.

Hope for things that are more likely. All other projects are farther along in development than Smash.

 

[Yuripaw]

That Wii U conference on Sep 13th, what time of the day is that scheduled to be at?

 

[JordanN]

What is edram used for essentially? I know his is a noob question but depending on the answer I have another weird theory....

EDRAM is used to perform certain calculations in an instant such as anti aliasing.

 

[jerd]

C'mon, don't kid yourself! You should know better than to expect them to show a game that they have only just started developing from scratch earlier this year. You will not see Smash this year. Spare yourself the disappointment. It just makes no sense.

Hope for things that are more likely. All other projects are farther along in development than Smash.

Yeah I don't even expect to see gameplay at E3 '13 honestly. Probably a CG trailer there introducing a new character or two but nothing beyond that.

 

[cyberheater]

Well one guy is controlling the character on the gamepad while the other is controlling Rayman on the TV. So the guy controlling the little green guy (can't remember his name) will be looking exclusively at the gamepad, while the other 1-4 players will be looking at the TV.

An interesting use of the technology.

 

[Donnie]

Ok, so as i understand it, he's talking about a cut-scene only to show a dragon. Never in gaming conditions!




Nathan Drake is only 30k, so yeah...i doubt we will see something above that...

Why?

 

[D-e-f-]

Yeah I don't even expect to see gameplay at E3 '13 honestly. Probably a CG trailer there introducing a new character or two but nothing beyond that.

Well, that on the other hand, I would not completely rule out. That is far enough away to get something rolling. I believe that they summoned the Namco Bandai rescue squad to get experienced guys in there who could help get the game done quicker. I still expect them to farm out asset creation and stuff like that to MLSI and others like with Brawl.

The armchair analyst in me says that it would make the most sense to fire many big guns next year at E3 (and Smash is a very big gun for some reason, I personally could never understand why exactly) when MS and Sony presumably show off their new systems.

The thing that worries me a bit around this is you can clearly see that the guy is only looking at the WiiUPad. If there is a lot of tablet interaction in the game then you might as well turn off the tv and just stick to the pad.

They're exclusively showing off multiplayer of Rayman Legends. It's basically like in NSMB.U.

 

[Gilby]

So I've been playing MH:Tri finally this past month...any word on Monster Hunter 4 U yet?

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

EDRAM is used to perform certain calculations in an instant such as anti aliasing.

Oh then never mind I had this weird idea as using edram as the buffer when the "Home" button is pressed to load the OS if RAM is restricted to just 1GB

 

[cyberheater]

They're exclusively showing off multiplayer of Rayman Legends. It's basically like in NSMB.U.

Yes. jerd21 explained that. I wonder if you still have the option to only use the tv screen for multiplayer.

 

[marc^o^]

Not sure if this has already been posted but there's a bit of new (to me at least) Rayman footage and it shows off a bit of gamepad functionality:

http://youtu.be/iCZRCOtZcvw

It is pretty bad quality off screen, but still impressive I think.

2005 technology or not, I have a hard time seeing how these graphics will ever get old. It looks amazing. We'll have to invent a new word beyond amazing for PS4 and x720 next Rayman.

 

[D-e-f-]

Yes. jerd21 explained that. I wonder if you still have the option to only use the tv screen for multiplayer.

Yes definitely. I believe there is even an option where you can just switch from from the support character on the GamePad to a regular character on the TV. I'll try to find the video.

 

[cyberheater]

Yes definitely. I believe there is even an option where you can just switch from from the support character on the GamePad to a regular character on the TV. I'll try to find the video.

Great.

 

[blu]

I remember reading somewhere that Nintendo are going to be using Greenhills compiler which generates "highly optimised code". I would imagine that any issues around source code being designed around in order execution would be resolve during compilation.

Not if the original code was hand-tuned for its original architecture - the compiler may have little to do about that.

 

[aeroslash]

Why?

Why? I really don't see Wii U almost doubling the polys in the main character of one of the most graphical intensive ps3 titles even with it's superior hardware.

As said, something like Gears or almost any AAA title this gen has offered, has a main character polycount between 10k or 25k. Normal mapping can "fake" a lot of detail, so it really won't be needed more than that, although i'm sure orbis and durango will reach the 50k point.

 

[D-e-f-]

Great.

Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5ZGL7mQJ8

They start out with Rayman and Barbara, then the Rayman player switches to the support dude (forgot the name) on the GamePad a few moments in, then switch back later depending on the situation.

 

[TheChits]

and I quote...loving the artwork, it reminds me of

and

mixed together LOL

What are these from?

 

[Sadist]

The first one is from the Last Story

 

[cyberheater]

Not it the original code was hand-tuned for its original architecture - the compiler may have little to do about that.

Yes. I guess some older games would be easier to port then others.

But going forward. It should be relatively easy enough if the devs develop the games with WiiU architecture in mind. I guess keeping 3 separate code bases concurrent (Xbox 360, PS3 and WiiU) won't be easy and there is still the issue of how much legacy code there'll be in the game engines that they are using which will have to be redone for WiiU.

 

[TheChits]

The first one is from the Last Story

Thank you. I've had my copy but it looks like I need to finally play it

 

[cyberheater]

Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5ZGL7mQJ8

They start out with Rayman and Barbara, then the Rayman player switches to the support dude (forgot the name) on the GamePad a few moments in, then switch back later depending on the situation.

Great. And it looks gorgeous.

 

[Aostia]

What are these from?

last story + blame manga