That's because MS wants to kill Win32, not because it's necessary to release those games as UWAs. And no, removing my freedom to fully mod my games and choose their installation path isn't progress to me.
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Windows 10's Game Mode exclusive to UWP
- Thread starter prudislav
- Start date
Fanboyism against anything that MS does with UWP/Store. It's my opinion of how some users act towards it. Any news about it, good or bad...is always the same.
Hockeymac18
Member
Maybe it's because the store is bad, and it represents practices that are bad for the open environment of PC gaming, and Microsoft's moves with it range from malicious to incompetent?
Nah, clearly people are just fanboys.
Guess that comes with general anti consumer practices that have plagued MS for years.
You are probably right some people do act that way but I personally can't blame anyone for it.
For the people still not understanding why people take issue with Microsoft leveraging their OS to push their other products, please read the Internet Explorer anti-trust case.
It's only one of the most important competition cases ever.
They are leveraging the OS and bundling to push their proprietary products over competitors.
It's only one of the most important competition cases ever.
They are leveraging the OS and bundling to push their proprietary products over competitors.
LukasTaves
Member
I don't know if there's anything new to uwp that prevents it, but you can create your custom certificate and other users are able to trust you and install your certificate to add you as a trusted source.
As for dll injection, a few google searches show that people got this working without any issues. People are even getting a hold to port mods and add ons to minecraft win10.
And as for modifying the files, there's nothing preventing it either, even on the new packages people are managing to mess with the app files. I couldn't find anything yet on they changing the executable, but even if they can't that's a extra security the store offers the developers, if you publish your own app you could allow executable modifications as far as I'm aware.
Problem is this has nothing to do with the store.
Sword Of Doom
Member
That's not the kind of progress most of us want though.
Hockeymac18
Member
I'd agree with you if UWA/UWP was exclusive to MS's store. I was under the impression that any storefront could use it.
I'm not sure this is an exact apples-to-apples analogy.
michaelius
Banned
Yeah if you want to keep control over expensive hardware you paid for instead of conceding it to Microsoft you are obviously fanboy
Funny thing is that most of uwp defenders aren't even pc gamers when you check their post history.
Bingo.
Easy: It's Windows Store thread. Even when people have reasonable objections to what MS is doing (which there was a lot, the list is dwindling but a lot of work for them to do), you get people who have no reason to be mad but fanboyism (in my opinion at least) occurs in threads like this.
Fanboyism?
Are you claiming people that don't like the Windows Store are Win32 fanboys?
It's not.
Hence why it's inching closer -- but the store and UWP are closely linked. They are going about it differently because they are not dumb to create the exact same anti-trust scenario again, but the spirit is the same: Leverage vertical integration to gain a competitive edge.
LukasTaves
Member
It says right there: This bundle contains and proceeds to list the version of the game you own.
The store and UWP are intertwined and people usually refer to them as the same problem because a lot of their issues are caused by each other, and the same policies and vision fuel both.
LukasTaves
Member
That makes no sense. Win32 is also their product, not something hacked into Windows that Ms is trying to get rid of it.
Hockeymac18
Member
OK - I see your point. Sure, I agree we should be skeptical of MS's moves here. That said, I also doubt that UWA/UWP is going to be very successful in its current form, either. Just look at the comments here...
MS is a company interested in making money after all, and if no one wants to buy this stuff, it'll crash and burn.
It depends what it is. If it's an automatic process - an application being able to shut down other apps is not an application-land privilege, it's something the OS has to do for the app. That it's being marketed as a 'game mode' leaves scope for it to expand beyond that one feature too I think.
Well his concern was two-fold - that on the one hand MS would try to obsolete or disadvantage Win32 apps, and then thereafter/separately, tie UWP to the windows store.
If the latter has been solved (?) then I guess his concern about the former might be offset. But the type of thing in the OP could be right along the tracks of the first part of his concerns, if it's the first part of a segregation of capabilities or OS performance for UWP vs non-UWP apps. If UWP apps are irrevocably deployable and distributable outside the windows store and without MS approval, though, then I guess that concern is now moot.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Possibly that. Maybe also gamepad compatibility with all uwp/uwa?
I believe one of the end goals will be to make sure you can do most things easily with a controller.
The margins on Win32 for gaming no longer exist for Microsoft.
Planned obsolence and competition with a previous version is a well-known phenomenon, and most certainly makes sense. Any durable goods seller deals with this.
Let me make a simpler point:
Madden 16 is also EA's product, but they want you to buy Madden 17.
Other concerns for UWP include the lack of moddability, lack of multi-gpu support without DX12 code, lack of ability to inject/overlay stuff and more.
What do you mean "future?" This has been going on for a while now.
GHG
Gold Member
What's even more funny is the fact that some of the same people who were saying it won't be exclusive are now defending this in a different vein. Lo and behold it's suddenly a case of "this is why this being UWP exclusive is good". It's difficult to keep up.
All I know is that I'm still waiting for //build/.
Edit: LMAO at "fanboyism" being the reason for people having beef with UWP and the windows store. The irony is strong.
dreamcast210
Banned
Maybe I'm dumb and all, but I don't see where it says that Game Mode is exclusive to UWP. It just says that UWP games will require that Game Mode be enabled.
12Dannu123
Member
As said multiple times already.
Clearly people are actually unintelligent to believe that UWP and Windows Store are the same thing.
UWP will obviously get better over time. It's a much better position as it was a year ago.
Adobe also sells UWP apps on their own storefront, so it makes everybody's claims of UWP and Windows Store moot.
To people who think UWP won't be successful. Trust me as long as Xbox consoles exist, then UWP will succeed. Whether Origin, Uplay or Battle.net adopt support UWP on their stores, that means UWP has succeeded.
Clearly people are actually unintelligent to believe that UWP and Windows Store are the same thing.
UWP will obviously get better over time. It's a much better position as it was a year ago.
Adobe also sells UWP apps on their own storefront, so it makes everybody's claims of UWP and Windows Store moot.
To people who think UWP won't be successful. Trust me as long as Xbox consoles exist, then UWP will succeed. Whether Origin, Uplay or Battle.net adopt support UWP on their stores, that means UWP has succeeded.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Again, lack of modability with UWP/UWA is another faulty misconception, developers can use MEF (Managed Extensibility Framework) to leverage a plugin architecture in their app to allow for mods. Whilst this requires developer support and doesn't allow for modding of unsupported applications that is different to "lack of modability", any dev that want to allow for mods, has a route by which to do so.
deadscreensky
Member
The issue has been solved, no need for question marks.
If you want to see what Tim Sweeney feels about UWP right now this is fairly recent:
That last part is still a big hang-up for him -- he advises people to stay away from UWP because of it, and I feel it's a fair argument -- but at least GAF can move on from some of its misleading UWP points about them being irrevocably tied to the Windows Store, right?
(Ha ha ha.)
The point is what you just described is absolutely not what PC gamers like myself want. That locked down environment is exactly the problem with what MS is doing.
I know that I personally said that there was a precedent that MS had that it could be non-exclusive as not all features MS has worked on in the past year was just for benefit of UWP (but mostly so). We also didn't (and still don't) know for sure what Game-Mode is. Based on the article it seems more like a developer tool for making games than a consumer facing feature (the author doesn't seem sure). I don't see how there's anything "bad" per se in this being exclusive. If you could tell me how, I would like to know your opinion.
Even though I know you are joking, I actually am waiting for build as I am a developer and it interests me making 1 game for phone to HoloLens (just need money for that HoloLens...fuck a damn emulator)
Doesn't make any sense, since this is Win32 vs. UWP, and UWA can be distributed by other sources than the Windows Store.
but but but Grandpa Microsoft will save you from all the evil malware
Saying "I resent a walled-garden approach for PCs" would convey what you're saying without resorting to brand demagoguery that's gonna put up a lot of people's filters. A low-resource mode for an OS isn't a terrible idea if it works, but this response to the OP sounds like you think it's audacious for a company to add features that some people might use. It's not ham-stringing what's already there; it's adding something new. Sure there are ways power users can achieve something similar. That's true of basically every new software feature ever, and this sounds like it has some back-end improvements from the more detailed write-ups.
stan423321
Member
I can see why you read it like that, but it also implies that games must be UWP for this.
CrAzY FiNgErS
Member
It can be a part of thier future, but make no mistake as long as devs can run .exe's on an open PC they will choose that route. If MS closes their OS by forcing all game devs to only use UWP then expect an exodus of publishers and devs to leave the Windows OS platform in droves and figure out a plan "B" to make sure their games aren't locked to such a closed system.
Edit-I will no longer be a part of the problem for MS. Gears 4 will be my first and last Windows Store release. I don't want to give them the idea that this kind of system is OK.
Mass Effect
Member
Why are we comparing the beginnings of Steam, that happened almost 15 YEARS AGO by a small company, to the W10 Store, which is developed by one of the largest corporations in the world in a time where we have countless examples of how to do it right, again?
They are irrevocably deployable and distributable outside the Windows Store.
CrAzY FiNgErS
Member
I want to add to this...Even Origin and Uplay are automatically better than Windows Store due to the nature of the UWP beast.
xabbott
Member
MS obviously has a lot more control over how UWP games run so the fact that this game mode applies to to them makes sense. I don't see the controversy. I suspect that the only processes game mode will manipulate will be other UWP programs or Windows services. Just to further limit issues with third parties.
Microsoft trying to do this with Win32 games seems way more problematic. I could just imagine the headlines when Windows 10 auto shutdowns some anti cheat services or a competitor's lesser known store front client to make a game run better.
Microsoft trying to do this with Win32 games seems way more problematic. I could just imagine the headlines when Windows 10 auto shutdowns some anti cheat services or a competitor's lesser known store front client to make a game run better.
Could I ask you, what is so offensive about it?
Games are categorised and you can search in the search box
https://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/store/top-paid/games/xbox
Unknown Soldier
Member
I hope UWP hurries up and dies soon.
prag16
Banned
Is there anything stopping from UWP apps being sold through steam if developers so choose?
I wonder if this will build into Microsoft being able to better support Play Anywhere and grow it out to more games by essentially allowing UWP games to be a single executable that works across PC and Xbox One devices. We already know UWP apps can do just that with a little device specific code added, but I wonder if making a more "to the metal" game mode for PC will essentially smooth out that process between PC versions and the Xbox One family versions.
I don't believe so. I would think there would need to be some sort of info box added that notifies the purchaser that the game is a UWP app though.
I don't believe so. I would think there would need to be some sort of info box added that notifies the purchaser that the game is a UWP app though.
As someone else has pointed out If anything can do it, then surely every single program would then start using it in order to get an upper hand and then when everything is using it- it becomes pointless.
That is one of the things that it is.
BleedOrange
Banned
This is what I was thinking as well, which makes the distinction make sense.
Yea, it seems more like a testing tool for devs than anything (and I'm very interested in it, hope we hear more during GDC)
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