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Windows 10's Game Mode exclusive to UWP
- Thread starter prudislav
- Start date
Crimsonclaw111
Member
So what do you even play then? Lol
BleedOrange
Banned
Define: most of us...
GAF is very different than the general computing public. That's not to say that MS doesn't need to cater to them in very specific ways, its just not the overarching goal for UWP as the development platform.
The most played game on the planet, of all time, has near zero players who play via Steam.
But what if your antivirus decides that accessing gamemode.dll to speed things up,
Or some other proprietory software you might have installed for some genuinue reason?
I'm so much happier when Microsoft stays away from PC gaming. Stick with OS updates and DirectX, leave everything else alone. Hell, we don't even need DirectX.
Not surprised to see a bunch of people excited about UWP news for reasons that continue to elude me. About the only benefit UWP brings to the table is that it's difficult (if not impossible) to create a virus that can do as much damage as a regular Win32 virus. ..which is irrelevant since you don't get viruses from Steam/GOG/Origin/whatever and it's not like MS is going to patch Win32 out of Windows..
Not surprised to see a bunch of people excited about UWP news for reasons that continue to elude me. About the only benefit UWP brings to the table is that it's difficult (if not impossible) to create a virus that can do as much damage as a regular Win32 virus. ..which is irrelevant since you don't get viruses from Steam/GOG/Origin/whatever and it's not like MS is going to patch Win32 out of Windows..
The Shift
Banned
UWP deployment is confusing. AdobeCC installed Adobe Experience Design via the Creative Cloud manager on our workstation's but this app isn't listed in the Windows store. It's a UWP. Anyone have clarification regarding this? We are under the impression that all UWP packages can only be deployed via the W10 store.
This is what happens when console wars envelop PC gaming. We're collateral damage.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Read the thread, that is not true anymore, UWP can be installed outside the store, UWP does not mean "Store app".
It's not in the Windows Store because UWAs aren't exclusive to the Windows Store. Your impression is incorrect (and hasn't been for a while). UWAs can be sold and distributed by anyone or any company just as an .exe can. This was discussed a little bit I think within the last two pages.
I have mentioned Adobe XD like 5 times in this thread as an example of why UWP != Store
But yes, it is not distributed from the store. Adobe sent the package to your computer via their own servers. They will also update said app using their own infrastructure.It's a part of the Windows OS.
There are restrictions in place to stop things that shouldn't be using it from using it.
i.e. The windows store.
If it is accessible from outside the windows store, which is what people want, then it's a free for all. What is there to understand?
I'm going to put the whole article (since it's already linked) here. It seems it has been updated, and the scenarios I described in my first post don't even need to be said besides the last one.
It's a dev tool for game development on UWP. It being exclusive would make sense since Xbox, PC, and Scorpio all run UWAs. No reason why it would be needed on Win32 as game development between those platforms won't be the same. It does nothing but help developers who are targeting those platforms.
Windows Central said:
It's a dev tool for game development on UWP. It being exclusive would make sense since Xbox, PC, and Scorpio all run UWAs. No reason why it would be needed on Win32 as game development between those platforms won't be the same. It does nothing but help developers who are targeting those platforms.
Was thinking the same thing.
Good god is this post spot on. I'm just glad they seem to be run by clueless monkeys. Once again MS's incompetence will save us from MS's attempt to fuck us over.
Pathfinder
Member
Makes more sense now.
1. Game Mode is something the user will launch deliberately, and not a mode for background processes like virus checkers.
2. People wanted Game Mode for all Windows games, including Win32 games, because it sounds like a nice feature that would potentially increase performance. Obviously, that didn't happen.
3. You're confusing UWP with the Windows 10 Store. Game Mode is exclusive to UWP, not the windows store.
4. I seriously think you're just being willfully obtuse at this point, because I can't believe I have to explain this to someone who claims to be a fan of UWP.
Dinky Dino
Member
Pretty much what I assumed. Besides there are lots of tools that shut down tasks and processes that you can use already. You can also do it manually. No mode would substitute hardware.
Though that is pretty neat that they're trying to streamline the code for both systems to bring it together as one. I wonder if they can pull it off but if they do, that's be impressive.
Receipts?
There isn't even a confirmation that game mode is what you and others are suggesting it is, UWP or not.
What I can't understand is why there are people actively proselytizing UWP in every goddamned thread. Where were you guys before MS' recent push into PC gaming? I don't remember a single WIN32 SUCKS post before the Xbox One was released and I've been on GAF for a long time
Why would a fan of PC gaming be interested in UWP? Besides the fact that Microsoft's newest games are exclusively UWP, what are you getting out of the UWP file architecture?
Please don't talk about viruses. Unless you're OK with Microsoft removing Win32 from Windows entirely, they're sticking around.
Why would a fan of PC gaming be interested in UWP? Besides the fact that Microsoft's newest games are exclusively UWP, what are you getting out of the UWP file architecture?
Please don't talk about viruses. Unless you're OK with Microsoft removing Win32 from Windows entirely, they're sticking around.
Their messaging has been the same about it being an open platform. It's people on this board and elsewhere on the internets who can lead people astray on what things mean and confuses messaging because of their angst towards what MS is doing (not all users, there are legit complaints about it). MS has been consistent on saying that anyone can make and distribute UWAs. I'm glad that we could help clarify things for you.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
My guess (and this is is and fanciful speculation, from my own fevered imagination based on the very little infomation available combined with the direction MS are taking with UWP)
Game mode will be nothing like *anything* speculated so far in the thread.
Game mode will be a something like a game focused hardware abstraction API / library to ease development of a single title to multiple W10 based hardware platforms, so PC, Xbox, Scorpio and Surface Phone (I can dream!), it will just be an extension of the UWP model expanded to game development on Microsofts platforms, it will be, ultimately, UWP for Games, where the device independance strengths of UWP are taken a step further forward to allow game devs to target ALL platforms with minimal changes, and it'll come with some new, non-UWP branding, something like UGP instead. (Universal Game Platform).
...and all this "OMG MS is locking shit up" will be forgotten, (Until the next misunderstanding)
Game mode will be nothing like *anything* speculated so far in the thread.
Game mode will be a something like a game focused hardware abstraction API / library to ease development of a single title to multiple W10 based hardware platforms, so PC, Xbox, Scorpio and Surface Phone (I can dream!), it will just be an extension of the UWP model expanded to game development on Microsofts platforms, it will be, ultimately, UWP for Games, where the device independance strengths of UWP are taken a step further forward to allow game devs to target ALL platforms with minimal changes, and it'll come with some new, non-UWP branding, something like UGP instead.
(Universal Game Platform)....and all this "OMG MS is locking shit up" will be forgotten, (Until the next misunderstanding
)LukasTaves
Member
How so? They could just as easily make a store that sells win32 apps and games and tie that store to the OS as they did with uwp.
And you are right that Ms wants uwp to be the future, but not because they can't profit from win32, or because with uwp they will lock pc users like they were on a phone XD
"Anyone can make apps for our closed platform" doesn't make a platform not closed.
"In computing, an open platform describes a software system which is based on open standards, such as published and fully documented external application programming interfaces (API) that allow using the software to function in other ways than the original programmer intended, without requiring modification of the source code. Using these interfaces, a third party could integrate with the platform to add functionality.[1] The opposite is a closed platform."
Also, how does one distribute UWP apps without the windows store? I've looked around in MSDN and Stack overflow, and I haven't found an answer that doesn't involve side loading or some hacks. And you still need the app to be digitally certified. There doesn't seem to be any clear documentation on this. It only states that you can deploy to the Windows Store. That's not the same as an open platform. Unless you can provide me a link that states something different than what I said, your comment is just false.
Here's what wiki says:
"UWP apps can be downloaded from Windows Store or sideloaded from another device. The sideloading requirements were reduced significantly from Windows 8.x to 10, but the app must still be signed by a trusted digital certificate that chains to a root certificate.[14]"
That's not an open platform.
Windows Store sells Win32 apps...wrapped in UWP, but they function as Win32 and still have majority of the features one would expect. Just saying...but yea, I know what you mean.
Right with that update it makes sense why it would be UWP exclusive because the only time you would want something like that is when you were testing apps that would run on UWP platforms.
Reading everything about it. It indeed sounds like a very useful feature for devs targeting multiple UWP platforms and want to see how it will run on those at a set profile before tweaking further.
Going back to the original rumour sounds like what is presented here and what game mode was original rumoured has two separate things as realistically if a dev was testing their game they wouldn't be running intensive programs that take up enough resources to affect performance in the first place.
Reading everything about it. It indeed sounds like a very useful feature for devs targeting multiple UWP platforms and want to see how it will run on those at a set profile before tweaking further.
Going back to the original rumour sounds like what is presented here and what game mode was original rumoured has two separate things as realistically if a dev was testing their game they wouldn't be running intensive programs that take up enough resources to affect performance in the first place.
It has been explained in this very thread. In fact, an example of a company(Adobe) releasing a UWP outside of the store has also been discussed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227667260&postcount=176
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227673594&postcount=256
Ok, but was that app released without being signed by a certificate?
That very post says that's not the case/ Is this a joke? Or are we just arbitrarily redefining "open" to defend Microsoft?
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
And what I don't understand is why don't people who hate it just ignore windows store and be happy with Steam? Instead of keep whining on every thread.
All I know is 2 years ago MS didn't give shit about PC gaming. Fast forward today, there are solid first party Microsoft title on PC, superb Xbox Live integration, and they have promised to release all the upcoming Xbox games. The way they monetize free Windows 10 is by making people use their Store. And this is what they are trying to do, yes its not as great as Steam. And yes they are taking forever to fix the issues. But damn they are doing something and trying to build an alternative ecosystem to Steam. No one is telling you to give them a chance, if you don't like it just move along. They are not forcing you to stop using steam in any way.
Microsoft serious about PC gaming is good for everyone.
Of course it was signed. MS isn't the gate keeper of certs though. Any cert generated from a trusted root can be used.
Even if not using a trusted cert, only gateway is a pop-up to the user to accept the risks. Much like a pop-up for a Win32 app from an unknown publisher.
Kids like the Dark Souls right? UWP is the Dark Souls of game platforms.
I think most people are concerned that the endgame of Microsoft is to use UWP and their store to push their competitors out of the PC gaming market and close down the PC gaming platform.
Microsoft being serious about PC gaming isn't really good for everyone. Last time they were serious about it we got GFWL and that almost killed PC gaming for good. Only recently did it really start to recover, and people don't want a repeat of that.
Lmfao.
I'm not talking about Steam or the Windows store. I'm talking about UWP.
And you still didn't answer the question. Why should PC gamers be excited about the UWP file architecture? All I can see are explanations of how UWP isn't quite as awful as some people think it is.
Besides the NO VIRUSES thing (which isn't an issue on any PC gaming storefront), I'm not seeing anything that's unequivocally better than Win32 for gamers. Certainly nothing to justify the nonstop cheerleading.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
You can self-sign, that's the whole point of sideloading.
The whole chain from installing the signed cert, which you can self-sign (or not, and having a UAC popup on install instead) to changing the relevant key in the reg (HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\AppModelUnlock) is usually done in a .msi installer automatically, you can go the easy route and use Intune or a 3rd party appx creation utility to make your .msi, or do it manually by following the scripts at https://github.com/aL3891/AppxInstaller and do it through WiX, but it can be done, is supported now by the OS.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I mean I'm aware that there are other fronts like GOG et al, but it seems silly to outright hate Steam and champion something that actively hurts the PC gaming community like UWP.
deadscreensky
Member
What sort of revisionist history nonsense is this?
You guys can deliver perfectly decent, convincing arguments about openness and control without needing to make up crazy bullshit to go along with it.
I actually haven't seen any cheerleading or proselytizing in this thread. Just several people trying to counter misconceptions about the platform. Which seems like something that should be encouraged. But that is just me.
There's no chance Steam will go anywhere. If people don't like the W10 Store, they won't use it.
I know the Store is awful, and UWP has plenty of down-sides, but it's the first time in gaming we've seen true cross-buy and cross-play in this scale. Like, there's no such thing as an Xbox exclusive anymore.
People can say that they should of done this but without doing it in UWP/Store, but one of the simple reasons why it exists is because of UWP and the unified store.
They really should improve that store though, it's awful.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
This is just paranoia, Microsoft isn't going to kill win 32 platform. just look at their last month's announcement.They have found a way to emulate full windows 10 including win 32 apps on ARM. This further validates what I am trying to say.
I didn't answer because I don't see any direct benefit myself. Beside the once that everyone sees such as easy to manage (Install/Uninstall), better security and easily deployable (Xbox One, PC and Scorpio)
The main purpose of UWP was having single app running on every version of Windows 10 device available.
Hockeymac18
Member
This is incorrect.
I don't think that game mode even affects resources at all. I believe it is what is described in the artlcle linked in the OP
Cant UWPs only be gotten theough the store?
If thats the case... then yes, you shut down, lol
Games that have windows store and steam versions... are they different? Is it the same .exe?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Reading threads before posting seems hard..., look two posts above yours. (or at any of my posts in the thread
) *sigh*Similar threads
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